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Hi, my name is Danny McBride and I feel thrilling about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Wait, thrilling? You feel thrilling? I feel thrilled. Actually, it's so cool. The way you said it, it has nothing to do with me. It sounds to me like plausible deniability about it.

Yes, yes. Fonnie's here, hear the yell. back to school ring the bell brand new shoes walk and lose climb the fence books and pens i can tell that we are gonna be friends yes i can tell that we are gonna be friends

hey there welcome to conan o'brien needs a friend it's not just me that does this podcast uh i am the beneficiary of having very strong powerful independent voices joining me one of those is Sona Misesian hello Sona

hi hello and how can I welcome

you when you already are welcome and you are an integral part of this whole Matt Gourley good to see you as well and I thank you for your service no one gets there alone so here we are together on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend and I am what I'm sorry who are you my name is Conan O'Brien no you're not and I'm someone who's just filled with gratitude glad to be here have you you been body snatched i was body snatched i was very tired last night and i fell asleep next to a strange new plant i found oh no i woke up this morning there was a decayed beady-eyed carcass next to me yeah and then my body felt refreshed and i like this whatever it is if you ever got

body snatched i feel like we'd all know like right away yeah and it would just be you being nice to us yeah yeah or not doing bits just being normal that's right that's how you would know i would

just be, hello, Sona, how are you? And how's your family? And you'd be interested in the answer and you would wait for a response. You know, it'd be funny, the minute I, if there were body snatchers out there, if I came in and all I would have to do is say, hi, Sona, how are you? And you would

shoot me in the head with a shotgun. Yes, I would. And you'd be right. Yes, I would. 100%. I would

know immediately. I remember there was an episode of The Simpsons back in my time where I think it was one of the halloween episodes there's zombies that are taking over springfield and homer's shooting zombies left and right and then flanders pops up in a window and and and homer shoots his head off and someone says um how did you know that he was a zombie and he went he was a zombie i just always love that joke that he blew flanders head off not even thinking about him being a zombie or not you shot zombie Flanders Flanders was a zombie uh anyway um no I'm uh I just wanted to give credit where credit's due and I think this is a village he's still going I know it's really unsettling what have you done with I want to talk about something which is I always have ink on my hands I don't know if that comes up on the podcast but I write a lot with uh pens and I'm constantly doodling and I always have a pen in my hand and i'm constantly writing notes in a journal or on a scrap of paper and uh lately i've been using this fountain pen that jeff ross got me for my birthday which is really nice and i use it all the time and but it does bleed a little bit of ink and i'm constantly

does it squirt what's that does it squirt novelty no i'm not i'm not doing anything it doesn't no no it's just that when you're working

around bottles of ink and stuff like that and i kind of like it all my life it's like an actual

fountain pen like there's liquid yeah it's really nice and i'm not this is not an ad it's i think

it's an aurora it's an aurora it's really nice it's a good pen and he got it from me and i really like it and thanks again jeff and let me try that i use it all the time but look at my hands and i noticed when we were in we were just shooting a travel show sona and you were with me or in all of my different travels I'm always about to go on camera and I see that there's ink over my right hand everywhere and I just look like a little spark.

First of all, feel how warm this is.

What have you been doing with this pen? Well, I keep it in a safe place. Why is it leaking so much?

It's not leaking.

Don't diss the Aurora pen. It's just that sometimes... No, no, no. You gotta... God, you're not...

I'm writing with the pen incorrectly? No. See, whatever you're doing...

You went like this, and with a fountain pen, you need to come at it with an angle. You were coming at it straight down, and that's just stupid.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I was writing. Huh? Do you feel a warm it is? Yeah, well, I know. I think he's toasty.

Well, I always hold it, and I flip it around in my hand. Oh, okay. And I always do that with pens.

Why are pens like that better than normal pens?

Well, they're beautiful looking.

Yeah, they are.

And it's just kind of nice. I've always been a little bit, even when I was a kid, I told you I loved pens, paper i wanted office supplies yeah i mean what a freaky kid i wasn't asking for a baseball glove i wanted a little stamp that said void you know i wanted ledgers i wanted ledgers i wanted did you get them um yeah my parents were very nice to me they were they would indulge me but i remember thinking all i want to do is be able to sign forms and then stamp them and then put them in a pneumatic tube like in the 1920s and or home depot in the 90s exactly so i just uh i was always into that okay that's but anyway i'm just getting a little self-conscious now that uh you know i go to these nice events or events where i'm supposed to be on camera and i sometimes i look at the picture later on and there's just it looks like i've crawled out of a grave oh yeah i think

you're doing it wrong what i think you're just writing incorrectly you know what you need is No, this from the person who, I'm not going to talk about the angle with which you attack the page. I was about to say there's no ink on my finger, but there is. Oh, look. There is.

You need some of that powder that like Shakespeare would throw on it after they write, you know, that soaks it up. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it was just sand back in the day.

I don't know. Do you have a quill?

I don't have a quill. I've never had a quill.

Okay. I feel like you're a quill guy. I feel like you're very quill-esque. You're a real quill guy.

You've seen my blotters over the years. I have. I would just fill them with, what, little...

So many doodles. We kept them all. They were on your desk. And then when they would fill up, I would replace them. And then you would just doodle away.

Just blanket them. And you could probably tell my mood if you looked at, like, oh, well, here's a blotter from 1997. You could probably tell what was going on in my life.

Well, even right now in your journal, you've written in some kind of hieroglyphics. Yeah, I write... Does that mean anything?

No, I just try and create little languages. and I like making lines. But anyway, that's what I got is that I'm covered in ink all the time now and I need to clean up my shit a little bit here.

Yes, go ahead. I've completely stopped using pens and paper. I'm past that. I got a Kindle Scribe that I've started to doodle on, which is great. So are you trying to get a free one? Why would you bring this up? No, I'm just saying, if you need a solve, you can move into the digital age instead of going back. No, no, no. It's better for paper. Move forward. You can email yourself notes. It's great. I like the digital.

No offense, but I like the tactile nature.

This is tactile.

Listen, I'm very suspicious, Blay, and for good reason that you mentioned it's a Kindle scribe.

We can take that out. We don't have to take it out.

We're going to leave it in because based on your past behavior, I think you're going to try and write that off now. I think you are. No, no. I think you are.

By the way, I was gone for that. And Blay, we got to talk, man.

You know what? If we brought that up again, I need to apologize. You know what, you're guilty of the same thing. Pause, pause.

We're going to continue this in the segment after the interview. It will be actually part four of Blay's tax saga.

Tax evasion scandal. And by the way, Blay is guilty of the same thing that put Capone in prison. Okay. Take us to the intro. Okay. My guest today is a hilarious writer, producer, and actor behind such shows as Eastbound and Down, Vice Principals, and The Righteous Gemstones. He now has a new book titled Thrilling Tales of Modern Men. Very excited he's back on the podcast. Danny McBride, welcome. Danny, as you know, I'm a massive fan of yours. I have been since... day one well the feeling is mutual and i'm just thrilled that you're here and we have a lot of stuff to talk about and we'll talk more in depth about it in a little bit but you wrote a book of short stories um called thrilling tales of modern men and you write so well and the stories are great and i i'm very proud of you and also jealous because i like to write i haven't gotten my shit together to do something like this and um this is fantastic and then the thing i'm most jealous of is the first quote you know you get you know known people to write a nice quote on the back yours is from Sturgill Simpson yeah and I love Sturgill Simpson oh he's the best and so much so that I I I have a band on the side and I play Sturgill Simpson and I've said to people I'd like to get to know Sturgill Simpson and people said he was on your show and I'm like I know but it's not the same like I wish Sturgill Simpson was my friend he's such a good writer such a good

Well, I could make that happen. I could negotiate that meeting. I'm pretty sure. I could, yep.

It's going to end up with me, a suitcase of cash in a parking lot late at night where the deal goes down. We'll meet you around the world somewhere,

one of your destinations for your show.

I would love to hang with both of you at the same time, but this book, we will talk about it, but I want to start on some other stuff first,

which is who the fuck do you think you are? Let me tell you. Come, let me tell you something. I don't like you and I don't like your comedy. I don't like your southern ways. I'm from Boston, see?

You know, I was thinking about you, reading up about you, and one of the things that we really have in common was how important Saturday morning cartoons were to us and sort of our comedic outlook. You were watching, first of all, you took it really seriously. I remember my brothers and I did too. We would study the Saturday morning lineup because it would refresh that it was a big thing back in the day now i think new shows come and go all the time but if you're like me i'm older than you but i remembered in the summer you'd start reading about the shows that were going to come out in the fall what the schedule and the lineup was going to be you'd circle the ones that were interesting to you in the tv guide they'd be you know you'd talk about it and then you we were there saturday morning i would like get up and

have coffee oh me yeah i was like five i'd have coffee and a couple of cigarettes i gotta make

it to smurfs yeah and then i would watch these shows with real interest yeah you know uh so you were watching probably the thing that influenced me the most was not a new show it was warner brothers cartoons um the you know looney tunes characters they influenced my comedy timing everything and you were into daffy duck i was into donald duck donald duck yeah i like i don't

respect that i like how i like how angry he was he was always so pissed off and it was just such a funny uh so funny against someone like mickey who just literally never loses his temper okay and then he's just buddies with the angriest guy who's ever existed all right well i got that wrong So now we're talking about Daffy Duck is very cool, too.

I love I love Donald Duck because I mean, Daffy Duck, because he's he really is disturbingly insane.

Yeah, he is. And he can pull his beak off and put it around the back of his head.

But I mean, just just he needs to be medicated. He needs to go to McLean Hospital in Massachusetts. And we're all laughing. But it's like, no, no, he's we know what this is now.

If he was on TV now, he would get the care that he needs. Yes. Basically.

So you like Donald Duck. Donald Duck is so pissed.

Oh, so pissed. Yeah. And everything, the whole universe is always shitting on him all the time. Yes. Just like constantly. He just has this little blue shirt on just walking around pissed off.

That awful blue shirt.

His little hat. And no pants. And no pants. No pants at all. Baby, I think that's why he's pissed. Yeah, it probably is.

Walk around with no pants for a while and you'll just be an angry guy. Bus seats hot. Not that hot. It is when you have no pants.

So you watched that and you watched. My lineup was the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon show. That was awesome. I mean, I'm trying to think of what else came in. The Littles. I don't know if you're. I think you and I might be the same age. What year were you born? I was born in 76. 73.

So yeah, the Little Snorks.

You were a little too old to be watching The Littles. Let's be honest. I was almost aging out with The Littles.

I was a late bloomer.

What I bloomed into was disturbing.

I just have to admit, I was watching Saved by the Bell when I was 45 years old. Those dudes were hot. Those girls are pretty. Dude, you're 45. You're here in an electronic store watching Saved by the Bell on nine televisions. You've been here every morning.

Yeah. The Littles were awesome, though.

What are the Littles? I don't even know what that is.

Their theme song was literally we are the littles uh they just said their name and they were just tiny people that lived in someone else's house normal people normal people's house people but they would like make their beds and stuff out of like match boxes and they would like design things like that you know were full

size but they would use it to their own advantage cutesy animated they kind of all look like elves

almost yeah somebody should somebody should remake that then you mentioned shirt tails i remember that that was such a strange concept for a show which was just animals who their shirts said stuff right that was it wait what that was that was animals that wear clothing that wear shirts

they wear shirts and their shirts say things yeah i think they change depending on their

emotions and stuff right i believe so i'm sure the shirts are like a mood ring but they have words on them and they might not have worn pants they might have yeah oh there we go and see again the the trend of no pants yeah just shirt you know what i walked through them all wearing a

shirt that said, hug me with no pants. Not one person hugged me. I guess the security guard, it's kind of a hug when they pull you to the ground. Yeah, that counts. That's what they were doing. So you're growing up. That's important to you. You're raised Baptist. Yeah. And your mom used to perform at the church she would write out like skits and do the scripts and make puppets and she would do a little show yeah that must have influenced you it definitely did uh yeah i mean

i remember i was like surprised when she even took it on like you know we just went to church then suddenly my mom is stepping up into this position where she's going to do puppet shows in front of the whole church right i was like how are you going to do this mom you do you know about puppets you know how to do puppet stuff she does uh but yeah they would she would kind of like drum up these like two to three page little uh scripts and then she would it was her it was my dad sometimes and then it would be other people from the church playing some of the other characters and it was just like the children's sermon before the big sermon they would uh you know so it'd be something you know thou shalt not steal or whatever and it's just a little skit about a kid who steals like lunch money at school and why you shouldn't do it right but it was you know i think what was cool about it was the idea of being able to see something create it and then like a few days later performed in front of people and then you know my from my point of view i'm not doing the puppets i'm not i don't have anything i don't have anything to do with it i'm just sitting there watching the process like i'm seeing her in our kitchen writing these scripts and like you know running the lines and then a few days later i'm at church like looking around watching people watch it and respond to it and you know i just thought it was cool i think that was like the beginning of me sort of like even understanding like oh this is like something you could do you can you can write things in your kitchen and people might respond to it yeah that's so cool you were you quite religious then when you were a kid when you were baptist i wouldn't say i was religious i think i spent most of my time like you know doodling on the minister's face in the program or or just

imagining what else i think we went to the same i think i'm whatever religion you are i'm that

religion yeah uh but it's funny because now that you know we i stopped going probably in middle school but we went all the time but then you look back like oh it was actually kind of awesome that for like an hour you had to just be forced to sit there and be quiet yeah while you know i think my imagination would run wild during that time too i was catholic so i went to catholic mass but you guys had to stand up and sit down a lot more stand up and sit down we could just be lazy we

You can sit there every now and then clap along to a song. Yeah. We had to stand up and sit down a lot, but there's still a lot of time to look around. I would just look around St. Lawrence's church and I would look up and just imagine all kinds of insane things because you weren't on a tablet. They didn't have tablets then. And you were trapped with your mind. And I wasn't thinking about the stuff I was supposed to be thinking about. You have said that your parents got divorced And that also probably had an effect on whatever, you questioning this whole Baptist thing.

Yeah, I just saw it as, you know, I don't think it was exclusive to like the Baptist church, but it was at that time in the 80s, it was sort of like, you know, people weren't getting divorced as much. And especially at the church, I think. So it was just, after it kind of happened, I felt like my mom didn't really feel like welcome there as much. And so then she would drop me and my sister off and we're like, well, we're only going because you were going. We ain't trying to go to this thing by ourselves.

you walk in, you peek, the car's left, and then you guys go out the back door.

Yeah. And you know, the cool thing about that church I went to is called Salem Baptist Church. It was in Spotsylvania, Virginia, but it was actually a church that was around during the Civil War. So it was just kind of wild to go to some little church that was like, oh, this was like standing. Was it the same Spotsylvania as the battle? Yeah. Yep. Same one. Yeah. A lot of a lot of civil war action in my hometown yeah lots those are those are those are nasty battles too that were that area too had some of the nastiest battles like i think it is it's known as the bloodiest ground in all of north america because of how many battles were there but the gnarliest one i think is that battle of wilderness that was there and that's like this insane battle that happened over the course of a few days in the forest the forest was on fire and guys were literally just like hatcheting each other i mean it was like it was awful it was insane and yeah it's a killer i used to go there all the time just enjoy myself watch think about that

that brutality good times so great that's a good that's a good first date i've talked about this on the podcast but i'm a you know history buff and a civil war guy and i remembered what my wife and I, it's, people think it was our honeymoon. It was not. It was after we got married, but just shortly after, like a couple of months later, I had a week off from the late night show. That's a honeymoon. Isn't that? No, we had our honeymoon and then we came back from it. But then maybe two months later, I had a week off and she said, let's take a trip. And I said, yeah, let's drive down through Georgia and visit the different towns in Georgia. And, you know, she liked it. And then the next thing you know i'm saying she said where are we going to now and i said andersonville and she said what's that and i said that's the giant prisoner of war camp where the confederates kept all the union troops didn't feed them and they all died of diarrhea and she said we're going to atlanta to the four seasons hotel and we're gonna drink appletinis and get our diarrhea there so we did that instead but i think you had a great idea i think i had a great idea think about looking at a field think of all the diarrhea. Big news, Sona. Yeah. Did you know T-Mobile recently partnered with the National Park Foundation? No way. Yep. They're making it easier to stay connected so you're free to wander. Well, that's really cool. And I love a national park. I really do. I do too. Now, there's one thing you have to have if you're doing that. Good signal. It's a priority. Do you know what I mean? You got your maps, your music, this podcast. Yeah. So take America's best network plus their off-grid satellite coverage with you. Look, we're all a little spoiled, but we like to have access to all our stuff and suddenly you don't have it because of a bad single. That's when I throw my phone into the Grand Canyon. Oh, okay. Literally filled half the Grand Canyon with phones. Then I got T-Mobile and never had to chuck them again. You know? Good. So wander over to T-Mobile.com and switch best based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data for 2H 2025. Wow, that's some sentence. T-satellite with capable device in most outdoor areas in U.S. where you see the sky. That's important. You got to see the sky. Service may be limited or unavailable. Included with experience beyond or $10 per month. Auto renews. Cancel any time. That was probably meant to be said by a robot really quickly, but I just did it slowly so you could really understand.

Disclaimer, please do not throw your phone into the Grand Canyon.

Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is so good, it's almost impossible not to finish it before the meal arrives. It's just too good to wait. That happens to me sometimes. Me too. You can try rules like no sipping until the appetizer arrives or you tell your friend, don't let me touch my glass. But every time you're staring at an empty glass. So if you've ever finished your Coke Zero before the first fry hits the table, you're among friends. It happens. Occupational hazard with Coke Zero. Yeah. Real Coca-Cola taste, zero sugar, too good to wait. Enjoy an ice cold Coca-Cola zero sugar today. Now, normally, Eduardo, you are sitting behind the board. You are the puppet master. You're working all the dials and switches making this podcast happen. But I've asked you to step out. I'm nervous. And I think you're going to like this surprise. Okay. And it involves our friends at Miller Lite. I know that you're a massive football fan. That's right. because we've caught you watching matches while we're taping a podcast and you clearly have just taped some of the buttons down into position so you can watch. I'm going to present to you Miller Time.

MVP match ball. What is this? This is the Miller Time MVP match ball. Look at this thing. Miller Lite knows you're a big fan, so they asked me to give this to you. And look at this. It holds up to 12 Miller Lite. This is incredible. Yes. Wow. I've been asked to specify, do not kick this ball. Oh, shoot.

I was just going to ask that.

No, do not kick this ball because 12 beers will go flying through the air. tell me how is this going to be used where is this going to go instantly i mean i've been

watching all the matches with friends and family this is the perfect piece to add to the table

this is really cool yeah oh thanks a lot oh look at it thank you thank you uh look at oh it's cold it keeps yes i don't want to make any promises but it i think it's actually kept it kind of chilly which is nice hey well cheers to you i appreciate that cheers to you uh eduardo remember Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. I do think one of the things that made the Righteous Gemstones just so great was you knew your subject. You understood these people. And also, I always sense there's affection there too. Like, I don't think it works to make a comedy about people if you just think they're stupid and loathsome. Totally. And that's not what you did. You had a real understanding and affection for these people and found them ridiculous, but also understood them at the same

time. Does that make sense? It does make sense. And I think we were, that is what we were trying to do. And I think we extended to a lot of the stuff from even, you know, Eastbound to Vice principles it's sort of you know we know that we're not dealing with like the best examples of mankind and uh but i think that it's fun to treat them still with uh with a little bit of empathy and even giving them enough depth so you know there's layers there i think it i think when comedy is written where there is such a disdain for what you're joking about it can kind of become boring i think it becomes more unexpected if you're confused as the audience of where you even kind of sit with this person. Yeah. I think, I mean, I talk about this now. I do think it's

very tricky. You always have to have a blend in comedy. If you're just thinking about the comedy and obviously we're very divided right now in this country and people are yelling at each other a lot and it's very vitriolic. And I think sometimes that, I don't know, it just makes comedy. If you want to talk about it or portray it in any way, the only way to do it is to show some nuance and empathy for a different point of view, but that's not what a lot of people are interested in.

Does that make sense? It totally makes sense. Then the thing is when everyone is kind of like on both sides are angry about the same exact stuff, it also just makes any comment you're making sort of feel redundant. Like people, it's like well-traveled paths, you know? So I do think when you can find that nuance, you probably have a better shot of actually like making people think if it's not something that they've been shouted out about over and over again the um what's interesting

another thing that's interesting to me is that you you came to be known through comedy and hugely successful in comedy but you've also carved out time to do these other things you you uh were a huge force behind the halloween franchise the reboots and it's so fascinating to me because i've always thought there's a weird like a sometimes they people say or i've said many people have said it there's a symbiosis between comedy and music like a lot of comedians also love music and there's some kind of weird parallel i also think there's something going on between comedy and horror there's some they're very different but also there are things about them that aren't that different because it's all about surprise exactly i think you're you're with

both of them you're structuring an experience you know you're uh with a joke you you'll you know you obviously want to pace things out so that the punchline gets the biggest laugh and i think it's the same way with those scares you you think about how you know oh we'll make them a little scared here and then we'll let them off the hook here and then boom we'll hit them here so i think there is a little bit of that is is similar as the yeah the architecture of trying to make sure you get

the result that you're going for. Also, I mean, if you look at Jordan Peele, his work, if you look at Obsession, if you look at Weapons, a lot of these people got their chops in comedy. And then when I was watching Weapons last year, and one of the reasons that I really wanted to do something with it on the Oscars was that

That character of Aunt Gladys is, to me, a comedy character. And there's so much of the movie that's kind of funny at the same time. And it's that razor-thin line between this is hilarious and this is horrifying. Yep. And many times when I've been trying to be funny in my career, I've been horrifying. but and if i tried to you know frighten any guy i think they would just start laughing so but there's something going on there and so uh it it must have been a great creative outlet for you

clearly it was it was a lot of fun you know that was jason blum had come to david green about uh adapting that and uh you know david green and i have gone to college we went to college again we've known each other for a really really long time and you know he came to me and was like i'm i think i might do this uh would you want to help me i'm like no way we you shouldn't relaunch halloween it's a terrible idea i love halloween don't do that yeah but then as we were thinking about it i was like well i mean if someone's going to why don't we give it a shot and let's see if we could and uh yeah it was honestly it was like unreal it was so funny to be sitting there like writing on that script and you're just writing you know the shape walks into the room

you know you're gonna i was formed in that movie my babysitter made me watch it when i was five with the lights out and so to like do away with all those sequels that in their own way i love but to come back the way you guys did with the 2018 one oh it was like closure for me thank you

the whole experience was awesome not only getting to do that but even you know we had to go through steps of approval to do it like david and i had to go to john carpenter's house and pitch him what we wanted to do and it was sort of like i've never really been nervous about pitching an idea ever I mean, it's just like, oh, they don't like it. They don't like it. But suddenly as we're like knocking on his door, it's like, oh God, I think I'll be crushed if he doesn't like what this idea is. This is insane. And so we, you know, I'm meeting him and pitching him this idea of like, we, we have an idea of what we want to do with something you've made. It was all of a sudden like, what are the balls of us? What are we thinking? We should never have this. That's great. It was awesome. But then, you know, we, once we got his approval, we sent it to, uh, to Jamie Lee Curtis to, because obviously it wouldn't work without her in it. and uh yeah when she called back and was like yeah i want to do this i mean green and i are just looking at each other like what is going on i mean it was it was insane and when it premiered at uh at tiff i think it might have been the most proud i've ever been of anything that we've done i mean i was so nervous of what that reception was going to be for that one because i'm i'm there with them i'm a fan of this it meant a lot and i just really wanted it to work for the other fans And I remember watching that and just my stomach was in knots. I wasn't like eating for like two days leading up to it. And we're sitting in there. And when it got to the last half where they're like in the house with them and everybody in the theater is like cheering and applauding. I was just like, oh, God, yes, yes. I'm happy to live. It was awesome. It was so much fun. Yeah.

I also think writing How Someone Gets Killed would be kind of fascinating because there is a real art to it. you know just just if if a character just gets killed well that's you know just gets shot it's boring it's trying to think of these inventive ways that are sometimes 50 comedy yeah the way someone you know and if you watch these movies as they're competing with each other

to do it in a more interesting way there's the scene at the rest stop when michael myers comes and just drops teeth on the ground from it's harrowing well yeah i was i think that idea

about the teeth dropping it might have even i i might be remembering it wrong but i feel like it was uh our location our buddy who works in locations who had that idea and so that's the other thing is you're working on uh you know if you're on a comedy sometimes you'll get jokes from right people sitting around like oh you should say this like oh it's not bad when people suggest things like he should drop the teeth you're like great idea but also keep an eye on dude that is fucked up yeah yeah where'd you come up with that idea

sometimes i don't know i don't want to talk about it i mean i want to take the credit yeah um that's fantastic yeah i i uh it just occurred to me that it would be i don't know be really funny to shoot a short thing where it's you going to John Carpenter's house to pitch him and he doesn't really like the idea but you hang around and then you use all the tropes from horror movies like he goes into the kitchen at night and opens the refrigerator door and then when he shuts it you're right there and you're like I just really think I told you I don't want to do it the pitch yeah it's just it's called the pitch

Season of the pitch. Yeah, season of the pitch. And you just keep... I don't let it go. Yeah, you don't let it... I become his dog. And it's all...

Yeah, it's all the... Exactly. It's all the stuff that has been used a million times. I'm always amazed now when people use some of those tropes that have been used way too many times and they don't put a spin on it. Yeah.

Like, really? That's why we're talking about Widow's Bay. There's a slasher episode and a moment with a shotgun that you wish you'd seen in slasher movies for decades and you finally see it.

and it's wonderful what else bay is there i mean i can't wait to see it everyone i know loves it and here's what i have that on my list here's what i they they're doing something new on that show um which is it's not a comedy it's horror and there's comedy but they've got this ratio it's like they invented this cocktail yeah it's kind of perfect and i don't think anyone's done quite that yet that's great and they they they do i think one of the real brilliant things about the show is they'll get the tension up to this highest pitch and then they'll always deflate it in this kind of humiliating way but then get the pitch right back again and without giving anything away but there's just one point where there's a there's like a demon and the main character math matthew reese has gone in to to talk to the demon and this other woman says you got to go in there and talk to the demon so he goes in and he's starting to talk to the demon and it's like knife's edge tense and then the door just opens she goes i forgot my purse and the demon and matthew reese wait a second while she gets her purse and she backs out you're like who the fuck does that who does that it's great anyway i don't know why we're plugging this show that neither one of us is involved in but widow's bay you you're a genius uh killer i just have to give a shout out katie dipple is the mind behind widow's bay i think she's brilliant and she's a former intern on our show and she's i she's brilliant she's done a ton of other work But I think Widow's Bay is her masterpiece. And also, while we're talking about other people's work, I think Hyundai makes an incredible value. Oh, boy. They've come a long way. Oh, boy. Let's talk about this book, because Thrilling Tales of Modern Men, I know that this is a theme you've worked on for a while in your work over the years, which is men kind of trying to confront maybe a world that's passed them by or men who feel well you're going to describe it better than i am no no you keep going i want to hear how you describe it no you're you're totally right men like me who are masculine and never lose uh i'm gonna do oh actually i can read from a new york times review um okay this is shit it says no elementary it's a very oh i hadn't read that one yet oh no this is the new york times what a piece of shit shitty shitty shitty shit what the hell my mom wrote that i thought this was in my toilet but it was no it's no new york times review uh some of the stories fit neatly into the canon of wounded protagonists

who lash out others tip toward a quieter emotional depth uh albeit laced with obscenity and the occasional violent outburst they're all undeniably the work of a storyteller interested in entertaining while also poking at what make at what makes men tick and then go boom which is yeah i'd buy that book you'd write that i don't have to because i don't have to because you gave me one for free um not for free i need i need the benmo yeah it's coming it's coming because i'm real good with tech um but this comes out of like you're very you're so good and i'm going back to even if you know your first work uh foot fist way and through everything you've done at and also you know donald duck like people who are uh you know assertive male characters that are also pissed off and frustrated because things aren't working out yeah and that seems to be this area that you love exploring. And now you've got this really terrific book of short stories that tackles that.

Yeah. It's just, you know, it's an extension. I feel like, like what you were saying about the work I've done in TV, like this kind of came to me because I really just wanted to see, could I do that and deliver that same experience, that same vibe, the same level of storytelling? Could I do it in a totally different format? And that was kind of why I entered this. And, you know, even the way the stories are sort of structured, like they start in essence with like a cold open and the title of the story like comes up later in the story yeah and uh so it was kind of a way of me sort of trying to translate what I, I mean, I've written at this point, like over 80 episodes of TV. Uh, and so it trains your brain to work in a certain way when it comes to storytelling. And I was just trying to use some of the stuff I learned doing that to just put it

into a totally new endeavor. Also, it, it feels too like if you're writing episodic television, as you have, you know, brilliantly over the years, you've got these characters, you want to get multiple seasons and you set up your own rules and you set up who your you know protagonists are and your side characters and then that's what you've got to work with over and over and over and over again and with a project like this you can have an idea explore it in a short story Totally. And then pivot. I say, OK, I'm done with that. Now it's going to be about a robot. Now it's going to be about a magician who's suspended in a box in a mall and gets in over his head. Now it's going to be about a sitcom actor who takes revenge on the coyote that killed his pet. Like you you you're working in a shorter form, but you can go you can go nuts, which is great.

you can go nuts and you know gemstones i was writing on that for you know seven years basically and it was so much fun and it was fun writing for all those characters and that world that we established was a ton of fun uh and it's weird you know like when you've when you've worked that long on something once it's over it is like almost like a breakup it's like getting over a relationship or something that i wanted to write more but i felt like i ain't trying to get into anything too serious i just need i need to get in and out i just need some short stories you know, I felt like I couldn't like commit myself to telling a story that was going to take that much time, you know? And so the idea was like, I think there's just a lot of stories I want to tell. And this allowed that to happen where you didn't have to think of the story of like, well, will this have legs for four years? Will this, you know, when you tell this one episode, it has to connect to six other episodes that tell a story. It's like you could enter it, start it and take it to completion in one sitting. And, um, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. And I think after writing so much TV, it was, uh, yeah, it was just sort of a cleanse that I needed.

Well, uh, now is this, what is your process? I know it sounds like a boring question, but to me, it's fascinating. Do you, do you write these stories here and there to just sit down to

write a collection of short stories? You know, I started the, I think there's only like maybe one or two of them that are from this, but how I even began even writing in this format was when we were writing vice principals it was we we wrote both of those seasons in one year so it was one solid year of just working on that morning noon and night and it was uh i was about i think about five months in i was feeling that thing i'm like oh i love these guys but fuck i have to do more

with these guys you're like they're you're locked in a room mentally yeah with these few characters

and you're just trying it's it becomes a puzzle figuring it all out and i was just sort of like the idea of anything else felt appealing so i just start i start this thing where in the morning before I'd go into the writer's room, I would just freehand write like anything I wanted. And I would just get to about three or four pages and I would stop it. And I had no ambitions for what any of it would be. It didn't have to be anything. I didn't have to continue the same story, just whatever idea I wanted to, I would just let myself write that. And I did that for the rest of that year. I ended up filling up like four books full of just all this stuff. And I put it away and didn't go back to any of it. And it really did kind of help my brain as I was writing by principles to help me exercise different ideas and get things out and kind of stay excited when I would go into the writer's room. And then I guess it was around 2020, I just like pulled those books out and looked at them for the first time. Like, was there anything in here that was like worth anything? And most of it sucked, but there were a few things that, uh, that just kind of got my imagination going or I was like, Oh, it'd be kind of interesting if this thing continued, or if I wrote more on this, I would do this with it. And so that was kind of the beginning of it. I pulled out of those books, probably about maybe like eight to 10 of the little kind of like snippets of stories and then started focusing on expanding those things. And then as I did that, I ended up getting rid of most of them. I kept like one or two. Um, and then I just kind of was like, I want to do this. I want to try to like create a book that I put this sort of level of thought into. And, um, yeah. And then that just became, you know, I was kind of teaching myself how to do it. Um, I thought the big difference between doing this and then writing a script is with the script, there's always someone else really talented is going to come in to make it better you know whether it's like yeah an actor is going to come in or the dp is going to make it look cool and it was kind of interesting to have it where you're like oh i'm just writing this and then i really need to go i need to do all that stuff myself i need to make sure that this is translated to people the way i'm imagining yeah ernest hemingway didn't say well this is what i got punch it up yeah give it a little the font will be really nice yeah yeah yeah um there's

Let's focus on this one story.

Institute of Men. Because it's a fascinating idea. Do you want to talk about it a little bit? It's a story about a guy who is getting self-conscious about his hairline is receding. He's losing his hair. And he's worried, a coworker of his thinks that he has Gollum-esque features and that if he loses his hair, it really could be bad for him. So he starts to, So he's like looking for a solution and he kind of, he sees this ad for this place called the Institute of Men and he decides to sign up and then he goes to this place and it's a little unorthodox there. There's some strange questions they ask him and it's a very odd procedure that he has to kind of sign away to. And then it's one of those monkey paw situations. He gets hair, but there's a price.

but i also love this what there's little things in it that remind me of some of the sort of comedy slash horror things we've been talking about where you know he has to fill out you know when you're getting going to get a medical procedure you have to fill out a questionnaire and the questions are just really yeah they're not things that you would normally see on a medical questionnaire

it should have been the first red flag yeah they're they're asking him things like how many friends he has and the last time he cried when was the last time you cried yeah when have you

been in a fight it's so funny because i've had ideas over the years for a little strange things that's like it's not a comedy sketch it's just a concept it's kind of freaky but i'd like to expand on it more and write it out but um you know i've never i don't know never i've never done it It's, it's why, I mean, I've been a massive fan of yours. And then when you did this, I was like, well, this man, this man, this man did the thing that I have never been able to do.

If an idiot like me could do it, Conan.

That's, that is not how I, that is not how, that's not how I think about it. But, uh, it's, it's really exceptional and, and also it has to just feel to have a book on the shelf. I mean, there's, there are a lot of celebrity famous people toss off books and it's, that's not what this is.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I, I worked as hard on this as I would on any of the, any of the shows I've worked on. I mean, I was like living and breathing it for the last year. And you know, the craziest part about it is like you, you finish it and then you turn in and then it's like the rewriting it where it's like, you know, you rewrite an episode of TV, it's 30 pages. Like, ah, I can get through this in a day or two. you get the notes and you look at it like this is like a 400 page document i gotta rewrite this

where the hell do i even start i don't even know if i can read this fucking thing in a month you

know but then you you do you get down into it where you do just start it just happens i just i went away and just left my computer on and just sort of like would just pace back and forth like just approach it sentence at a time danny like don't get intimidated by the by the weight of it and then it does start to strip away you do start to like you're like neo in the matrix like get rid of that put that in change that you can just start doing it yeah i've never had that i'll show

you i've never been neo and i'm keanu in point break that's who i am uh so what is okay this what are you working on now because this this project is done and i hate to say okay what else you got you know what have you done for me lately i've been working on something i'm pretty excited

about you know i i approached paramount last year about uh trying to relaunch gi joe for them as a feature yeah talk about cartoons dog uh this is uh it's so uh yeah the guys i write gemstones with uh jeff rattley and john couture we jammed uh we we jammed out this script that paramount's excited about and we're gonna try to that's what we're trying to make next year wow you can't say anything huh i can't i can't say you know what it's not a comedy it's like a grounded action movie oh my god um you know in the comics there's uh this town springfield that is like secretly cobra lives there i have that original comic yeah i loved it and so our our story takes place there and um i realize that matt's gonna follow you home yeah you got to make sure you watch the

gate close behind you when you get home but don't don't just assume that no one's walking in after you but don't worry i'll be dressed like duke from gi yeah you're gonna go to shut the refrigerator

tonight that's always there that was like the halloween thing of like feeling like insane writing the shape this was like i when i'm like right in the climax of it and we're sitting here and i'm putting things like cobra commander and snake eyes fighting i just had to like stop and like go downstairs to my wife and i'm like this is nuts i used to do this when i was a kid every day i would make these guys fight each other now i'm writing that shit you're living my life i'm so excited wow tears of blood from that gnarly yeah the i've i um i do think that and i chuck it up to pure luck but there are so many times now where i'm doing something i realize this is how i goofed around as a kid yeah and now i'm doing it and people are saying and cut nicely done i'm not getting yelled at yeah they're not telling you to clean up your toys that's all fine let's get back to gi joe yeah um uh walton goggins i i have to ask you about because you know i know him a bit and he's been here he's just a fascinating creature he really is he really i mean uh and i mean you must have the second you saw him do anything thought like oh i gotta know that guy 100 because he's such a he's like a walton goggins is a character you

would create i mean the person walton goggins the universe pushed us together yeah i love him so much he's one of my best friends and uh yeah i mean since the very first time we worked together in vice principles him and i have just had such a fast friendship and you know we went to we took our families to greece together last year and uh just hilarious he yeah he's just so funny and so

good he was here to do the podcast i don't know if you remember this but they he he got here a little bit early and then his one of his people said walton's very tired he's going to take a power nap for five minutes and he went into that little office where you were sitting that little green room with the couches and the sliding door that goes outside and um i walk by and he's asleep on the couch but he looked like dracula sleeping in his casket he was like like this and his eyes were closed and he slept really hard for exactly five minutes and then came in here and he gave us a full blast of the Goggins I love it he gave us full Goggins full metal Goggins full

metal Goggins yeah when we went to Greece last year it's like you know I mean he is he's a force and it was awesome walking around Greece everyone uh recognized him he had such a stellar year with white lotus and everyone was coming up and walton was dressed for it i mean what we would go out and walton is like in full white linens and then you know i'm there with my kids they're wearing like crocs you know yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll take this we'll take the photo for you we go to these beach clubs and like everyone in his family are just like finely dressed and just look like they're off the mat a magazine i just got yeah yeah my little redneck kids and me

sitting here with bad suntans so he's like aristotle onassis and jackie onassis walking

around greece off the yacht and then you guys like you know randy quaid and you know vacation

just like wait for me you're like i'm gonna get them duke boys wow uh i wish i could have again i would just want to shoot that i just want to see the b-roll of you guys walking around having a killer time unbelievable well i uh this has been a huge shot in the arm i didn't even need a shot in the arm today but i was weird i do this sometimes i'll be driving in and i think hey i get to see danny mcbride today and i love his book i'm so happy forum and and uh just i just love talking to you and getting any time to hang with you and i will take you up on your promise to uh just the three of us you me sturgill simpson i'll coordinate it i'll pay for the meal you guys put you guys pick the outback steakhouse i'd love that and um and we'll go there and if goggin wants to drop by at some point bring him to him he might we might have to change what we're wearing if he comes we're gonna help our game well danny thank you uh for dropping in and congrats on the book i love it thrilling tales of modern men awesome thank you this won't air great that's fine support for today's episode comes from square the system powering like half the places you go Hello. Yeah. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, whoa, that was fast, it was probably Square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. Square is the platform behind the scenes of so many businesses you already love. It gets them connected to a system to make payments, manage inventory, run payroll, send invoices, track it all in one place. This isn't just a point of sale. Square includes hardware that works in person and on the go, I mean, it's incredible. I see square all the time when I go out there. Me too. And I'm out there a lot. Yeah, you are out there. You're out there on the streets. Yeah, with the streets with the people. And I am doing business. I'm bartering. I'm exchanging.

exchanging. And all the time they use Square. And you know what? It's fast and it's easy. And I wish it existed in an earlier time. Yeah. Would have really helped us. If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down. Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com slash go slash Conan. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash Conan. Run your business smarter with square. Get started today. Big news, Sona. Yeah. Did you know T-Mobile recently partnered with the National Park Foundation? No way. Yep. They're making it easier to stay connected. So you're free to wander. Well, that's really cool. And I love a national park. I really do. I do too. Now, there's one thing you have to have if you're doing that good signal. It's a priority. Do you know what I mean? You got your maps, your music, this podcast. Yeah. So take America's best network plus their off-grid satellite coverage with you. Look, we're all a little spoiled, but we like to have access to all our stuff and suddenly you don't have it because of a bad single. That's when I throw my phone into the Grand Canyon. Oh, okay. Literally filled half the Grand Canyon with phones. Then I got T-Mobile and never had to chuck them again. You know? Good. So wander over to T-Mobile.com and switch. Best based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data for 2H 2025. Wow, that's some sentence. T-satellite with capable device in most outdoor areas in U.S. where you see the sky. That's important. You got to see the sky. Service may be limited or unavailable. Included with experience beyond or $10 per month. Auto renews. Cancel any time. That was probably meant to be said by a robot really quickly, but I just did it slowly so you could really understand. Disclaimer. Please do not throw your phone into the Grand Canyon. Have you ever had a cat, Sona? Never. Okay, I have had multiple cats. Yeah. I had a cat growing up. It was my cat. My wife and I now have three cats. That's a lot. Yeah, we have three cats and two dogs. And I have to say the dogs are so appreciative. Cats hard to win over. Yeah. Cats are cats. They're tricky.

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Here we are. We're talking about Blay's tax saga. This is part four and maybe an ongoing series. And hopefully it doesn't, you know, hopefully it ends well.

Blay, along with his mother, are part of a criminal gang where blay was able to um write off his various uh uh nerd collections of swords lightsabers darth vader helmets whatever you whatever else he can think of uh he was writing them off because he was bringing them up on the podcast and if the internal revenue service is listening and i think they should be um i think he should be investigated and now you were a stranger to all of this matt i edited because you were out on a i think a nine month fraternity leave which is fine i will it would be we began with conception yeah and then ended with delivery and ended with her starting at a very good college in the northeast yeah um but now you so you have a fresh approach to all this we haven't heard your opinion so you speak you listen to what blay was up to and what

you think well god you know i love you blay and this only comes out of concern oh boy you know

it's not going to be good when you hear that. I'm just concerned that you're doing things

backwards that you know what I mean, that you're coming on and saying that I should after you've purchased these like, oh, I'm going to mention them now, as opposed to having an actual solid reason for bringing them on the show, which I think would justify a write off. Uh huh. Yeah. Well, how can I bring them up if I don't already own them? Well, I think they have to be organically. This is organic. He talked about the pens. No one needed to mention the brand.

You didn't need to mention the brand. Why did you say, what's it called again? It's called the Kindle Scribe. Yeah. By Amazon. Okay. Oh, boy. I find it suspicious that you give lots of labels. You give a lot of, this is how. This is what it's called. This is where it's available. I think it's a really reasonable price. Get yours now. Click to proceed to cart.

You said what kind of pen you had. You said it's an Aurora pen. It's really nice. Didn't you say the kind of pen? I did say that. Okay. But I don't think he's writing it off. How is that different? I know maybe you want an Aurora pen.

It's a gift. Maybe Jeff's writing it off.

But I think the difference is if I was to say like, oh, I was taking out the trash last night, hefty trash bags. They are good trash bags. Okay. The first flex. The first flex. The first flex odor killing.

Blay, Blay, Blay, you know the difference, which is I just said this is a nice pen. It's an Aurora. I'm not expecting anything from Aurora. Were they to give me something, which would be very nice if I got a free pen from Aurora, I would accept it, but I would never mention it on air. No, I know. Although I might, I probably would, Aurora. But anyway, that's not what I would. Very good pens. It's just a pen that I use and it's a pen that I have right now on camera.

Even though you can't write with it normally.

Well.

You have to write out an angle. No offense, Aurora, but what the fuck? Also, it's squirting everywhere. You're right.

Throw that thing into a hefty trash bag.

Squirting all over the place. Sona, when I watched how you tried to write with this, I was appalled. Because listen, you just came right down, straight. It was a 90 degree angle. It was completely perpendicular. And I felt, I was like, oh my goodness. And 11 year old me was appalled.

Oh no. Yeah. That is not how one holds a pen and pen. The one who wants the stamp? That 11-year-old version of you?

All I wanted was a void stamp.

I really wish I could impress that 11-year-old version of you. Will you go out with me, stamp-loving kid? Hey, you like stamps?

A rubber stamp. It's really fun. And you get to, like, with real authority, say, void.

Oh, no.

Remit. I wanted a remit stamp. Sona.

What? What, me? No, Blay, remember? I know, but... I get it, I get it.

Oh, your roars are great.

Send me one, too. Yeah.

All I want to do is a quick shut up. And then onward to Blay.

Blay, I just don't want to see anything happen to you. That's all I care about. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And I do want to see something happen to you. I would be delighted if you and your mother, who does your taxes for reasons that still escape me, even though she's not a tax person, she gets you on the phone, and then she calls... What is it? She's good at TurboTax. She calls TurboTax and, you know. Calls TurboTax? You don't call. I'm doing your part for you. Oh, thank you. Calls TurboTax? Thank you. Who calls TurboTax? I did that for you as a gift deal.

Thank you very much. You're right. Who calls TurboTax?

I'm just showing you that I can do your role on this podcast, too.

If you know, you said it incorrectly.

Hubba, hubba, hubba, hubba, hubba, hubba. I won that argument with my hubba, hubba, hubba. Okay, well, I'll do your part.

You're writing incorrectly. Is it niggle?

Wait, you mentioned all the products by Amazon readily available. I think it's a good price. I know what you're up to. I see what you're doing. And you leaned in and you also still do the thing we've talked to you about, which is you put your mouth over the mic like you're eating a giant kielbasa and you shout into it. You need to grab it.

He's grabbing it, too. He grabs it.

What is the grabbing about? What do you grab the mic?

Well, because Eduardo and I share a mic. Boo, no one likes you, boo.

We share a mic.

Eduardo is not separating himself. Eduardo is not having this. Well, no, I was just saying we share a mic. So I need to grab the mic to pull it over to me. And why are you yelling? I don't know. I'm trying to take, can I just, in defense, the reason why I say what it is is not to write things off. I'm not going to write this off. It's in case people are like, oh, that's pretty cool. Where can I get that? That's pretty, I like that product. I would like to buy it also. Uh-oh.

So that's where your role here is on the podcast is to direct people towards items that are in your life that they might also want.

You have an affiliate link where you get a percentage.

Yeah, we could have an affiliate link for the podcast to make a little extra dough on the side. You know, can I say something?

I like paper and I like the idea that, and I'm never going to be someone that wants to doodle and then press a button and it goes into the cloud. Okay. Because guess what? You think you're saving paper, but now server farms have to handle my doodles and we're burning valuable energy. We're burning fossil fuels. Okay, yes. So that somewhere a server farm can hang on to my little guy that's going bibble, babble, nibble.

But you could lose your doodles And this is, my notes are being saved forever.

Yeah, that's important. And you know what? It's important that your thoughts are saved, Blay, for all of time. Well, I've never said anything that's more ridiculous. We're going to end there. But Blay, I've got my eye on you. I think you're up to no good. And if the IRS is listening, his name is Aaron Blair.

I think that's the thing, though, is the IRS has been gutted. So you're probably safe. Yes, they are gutted. Oh, we can all just do that now. And you know what?

The worst criminals like Blair are going to get away with murder. Yeah. It's like tax fury road right now.

Just go for it.

Go for it. Why not? Well, if that's the message of our podcast today, it's if you're thinking of cheating on your taxes, just go for it.

Let's do it.

Brian, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by mars melnick talent booking by paula davis gina batista and brit con you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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