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slash getaway from estero florida this is a one extraordinary marriage show where being busy is overdone romancing is fun and scheduling sex is taking the guesswork out of wondering when you're going to get some creators of the six pillars of intimacy i'm tony de lorenzo your co-host along with my beautiful wife elisa from coast to coast and around the world thank you for joining us it's time to talk sex love and commitment give us a call or text us on the hug hotline at 858 876-5663 or send us an email to hugs at one extraordinary marriage.com. In today's episode, we're talking about what happens when one spouse is trying to be intentional and yet the other spouse experiences that intentionality as pressure. And there's a quote from Arnold

Glazow that says, the key to everything is patience. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it. I'm going to tie that into today's episode as we go forward. But first, we start every episode with a hug. And this hug came from an email that we received that said, I want to tell the two of you how much I enjoy your podcast, the way you guys interact and you're so transparent. I love it. Also, all the different tools and encouragement you give for marriage have been really helpful for us. It's transforming our lives. We've been married for 40 years and we are older than 65 and we are rediscovering our intimacy together. God bless your ministry.

Excellent. I love it. And whenever somebody says intimacy, I always love to just say, when we talk about intimacy here at One Extraordinary Marriage, the true definition is closeness and connection. Yes, it can include sexual, emotional, and the other four, but we really are honing in on how are you getting close and connected with your spouse?

Well, and I just want to say for all of those of you that have not been married 40 years, or are younger than 65, let these guys be an example that you can continue to grow and learn and rediscover one another no matter what age or stage you're in.

That's right.

If they're doing it, you can do it.

We still are.

Absolutely. And as Tony said at the top of this episode, we're talking about this word that comes up quite a bit with Tony very much. He often, I mean, truthfully, I think I've said this in a few episodes lately, I don't know how many times over the last 16 years on the podcast, Tony has said, be intentional and take action, right? So this word intentionality can be a loaded word because there's been this dynamic that I have been hearing a lot in my coaching sessions around the concept of intentionality. And some of you, even as we start to describe this, are going to be like, oh, oh, that's us. that's us exactly right where one spouse is trying hard to be intentional they are making a plan they want a plan they want to know how the marriage is moving forward they want to feel like the two of you are you know working on things together and not just hoping or waiting for something to change and the other one of you is like wow that feels like a lot of pressure all right so real quickly

here because my beautiful wife, Elisa, loves definitions. So we're going to get the definition

of intentional. I can't believe in all these years, you have never actually shared the definition of

intentional. I'm surprised you haven't. So intentional, the definition, it's an adjective

done on purpose, deliberate. Done on purpose. Done on purpose. So when it comes to your marriage, how do you conceptually do things on purpose? How are you deliberate? Not just drifting or hoping or waiting for something to change. And when you get this dynamic where one is like, hey, I need a plan. Like I need to know what are we doing and what actions are we taking? And the other one is like, whoa, that's a lot of pressure. I do want to say, because I've had so many conversations about this over the years, that that spouse that's experiencing the sensation of pressure or expectation isn't, isn't in this place because they don't care about the marriage or that they don't want things to improve. But there's likely underneath all of that, maybe hurt, rejection, disappointment, broken trust, their own struggles that are, you know, creating this seeming resistance. But there's usually something going on under the surface where that like, hey, we need a plan starts to feel like.

like maybe I'm being criticized for not doing things, you know, properly or the way I should, or the plan, like we've been saying, feels like pressure or that, that desire for connection feels like one more expectation that they can't meet or they don't know how to meet. And it's not that intentionality, it's not like doing marriage, you know, thank you for the definition, 16 and a half years into the podcast, Tony. Love that. It's not that doing marriage on purpose or deliberately is good or bad, right? I think most of you would agree and you can look at your life that, that being intentional and doing life on purpose is actually a good thing, right? It helps you move forward. It helps you like have a gauge of what's going on. Like, you know, what am I doing in life on purpose? But when things are tender in your marriage, how you handle being intentional, how you present that can be like weighty, right? And I think we've experienced this in our own marriage in different times where it's been like, hey, I need a plan. And, you know, maybe at one point in time, the plan feels really good. And at other points in time, the plan feels like, oh my gosh, it's one more expectation, right? Like I would even say um you know all those years ago when we started the intimacy lifestyle right first first part you know part years of doing intimacy lifestyle for me it was like okay like I know what's expected we've got a plan and then there were definitely seasons where life was changing and things like that where the intimacy lifestyle felt like okay that's an obligation like the

expectation the obligation felt heavy heavy yeah and i would say over the years the intimacy lifestyle is one of those that we have shared many a times here at wanting for a name marriage and with you that we have kept consistent other areas of our marriage we have as well walk-in talks are one but those have come and gone too like depending on where we are seasons of the year or whatever And yet when I see the intimacy lifestyle, I think this is one of those that we could definitely pinpoint to going, wow, the intentionality behind it, right? The idea of it, which is, hey, there are three days that I'm initiating. There are three days where Elisa is initiating so that we are showing our desire for one another on, for overall purposes, it's a great idea. in actuality in reality there are times and there have been seasons when i think on our both of our parts where we feel like man there's just pressure for us to perform and get this done to maybe check something off and i and i say both of us because there have been seasons where even myself i'm like gosh i'm tired i'm stressed is this really something i need to do and i know even more recently, and we've talked about this, this season that we've been in with Elisa going through perimenopause, both of us having some ailments and aches and this and that and the other, which by the way, for all of you who did reach out last week from last week's episode, thank you so much. It truly, I appreciate it for each and every one of you who are willing to reach out and say, hey, Tony, heard you, you know, here's something that happened in our family, not necessarily our marriage but maybe other people in our family or even in our marriage and so just want to say i did reach out to my urologist buddy got that one going still need to look for a general

but we are moving in the right direction oh time out time out were you gonna tell me this well i

was gonna get the pa or the the the other general done too i haven't i haven't made the appointment yet i'm still waiting for the office to call me but but you hadn't even told me i know It's been one of those weeks where we've had a lot going on, and I only got that text yesterday. Okay, okay. So it's not like I've had this text for days and days, and I'm sitting on it.

Okay, I was just like, wait a minute, we talked about this a week ago. No. What's going on?

So in any ways, I say all of that to look at the intimacy lifestyle, and the whole purpose behind it was being intentional. for putting our sexual intimacy to have a purpose in that there have been moments and times on both of our parts where it feels like there's some pressure and in those moments we've had to adjust we've had to talk we've had to engage emotional intimacy to go okay what is going on same with financial intimacy we're being intentional we got a plan we got things written down yet why aren't things moving forward oh i feel pressure to to call maybe the insurance agent or deal with this over here because it may open up a whole nother bag of things i need to deal with and i don't want to for many of you when we've talked about wills and trusts it's a great thing that you can write down and yet you're being intentional in your financial intimacy. You understand that this is important. And yet when it comes down to it, there's pressure because now we got to really think about our mortality. And many of us don't want to think of that. So we feel

the pressure, the weight of that upon us. And that's just two of the six pillars of intimacy that we've brought up. But really, you know, creating a plan and bringing that to the marriage can be this tension in any of the pillars of hope for one spouse and pressure for another. And that tension can actually result in more conflict. You get to a place where you're fighting about your plan or lack thereof, instead of going, hey, what are we doing in our marriage? And it becomes this cycle where one spouse is kind of in this pursuing place, like, hey, let's talk about it. Let's do this. Why aren't we doing this? And all these questions. And the other one's like, whoa, I'm just going to, like, I'm going to retreat. I'm going to pull back. And so it's this whole like, you know, in the attachment there, it's like the anxious and the avoidant, you know, going back and forth of like, well, I feel really anxious because I don't know what we're doing. Well, I'm avoiding because this feels really uncomfortable. And so everybody's uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Everybody's uncomfortable, but we're not finding the bridge to one another. Because at the end of the day, I find, and I'm going to say, make this really blanket statement that if you are listening to this podcast, there's a really good chance, I'm going to go high 90% chance, that you want an extraordinary marriage. I feel pretty confident that most of you listening have that desire. And getting there, you recognize that there has to be some level of on purpose, some level of deliberateness, some level of intentionality to make that happen. But you can find yourself in this push-pull with your spouse. If you're the one that wants to have the plan, the more you're going after the plan. You're like, let's go, let's go, let's go. And the more your spouse is like, hold up, hold up, hold up. I'm not going to. And you get into dynamics of criticism and rejection. And you start to see this all swirl. and nobody, nobody feels good. And I've had words come up in coaching sessions, like, or phrases, at least I feel really desperate right now. Other people will say, I feel smothered. I feel misunderstood. It feels like everything I do is criticized. You get into this place where it's like your conversations start to feel like you might be entering the twilight zone. Like, like, can we talk, which, you know, when you're first dating, can we talk? Like, I want to have a conversation with you is the most, well, yes, like I can't wait to have a conversation with you. And then you hear, can we talk when you're in this dynamic? And it sounds like, oh, great. So I'm about to get lectured on everything I'm doing wrong. Or you hear, I need time. And your brain translates that into, my spouse doesn't want to be around me. they don't care about me can I hold you I just want to hold your hand I want to give you a hug starts to sound like well I'm hoping this turns into sex right and that was a big one for us where that expectation because our sexual intimacy was so dysfunctional or not right now starts to sound like not ever and again it's not that intentionality is wrong it might just be how the two of you are approaching it in this season where there is this tension between hope and pressure. And you can get to a place of going, well, you know what? Let's just throw our hands up. And I'm going to challenge you today. We're going to challenge you. Don't throw your hands up. Your marriage needs to be moving forward. We've said many, many times on this podcast that if you're not moving forward, it's not that you're staying neutral. There's only two ways to go in a marriage. You're either moving forward together or you're moving backwards and so you need to have something that you both can participate in not something that makes one feel you know criticized or smothered or this tension between hope and

pressure so let's talk about how to create that after this break okay class let's begin

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We're back. And we're exploring this idea of creating intentionality in your marriage without it turning into pressure. and i want to say like having these conversations they're not always easy conversations no i mean case in point the other night we're in bed and tony is like hey we need to like talk about our

sexual intimacy and i'm like right now right now we're gonna talk about this well right now okay couldn't you put it into context honey sure why don't you give the context all right so context of what happened. And yes, many a times it is not good to be talking about your sexual intimacy in your bedroom, in your bed. Get it. Got it. I understand it. I know it.

This is where we prove once again that we are not perfect human beings.

Truth. So we have talked about many a times oral sex being something that is a highlight, something enjoyable in our marriage. And I have come to realize and notice over the last few months, that has decreased. And so in our marriage, there's typically in, in probably in yours too, there's probably some way that there's an indication that you're going to go do that, right? Husband to wife, wife to husband, most likely there's going to be some sort of indication. And I noticed recently, whenever that indication, I am doing that, it's more like a, and just sort of a moving away. Okay. Understand. And yet the other night it happened again. And I finally got to a point where I'm like, what's up? Like what's going on? Because I'm recognizing and I'm realizing, and I don't know if you do, but the oral sex that we have had in our marriage has decreased considerably. Like when I say considerably, it used to be once every two times, maybe even every time for a while there. So it's decreased considerably to like once every maybe 10 times now. And so I brought it up. Alisa's looking at me like, are you serious? I don't have numbers. I'm not tracking this on a spreadsheet. Some of you do like some of you do and probably should and yet i would guess if we were to look back it has decreased considerably so i brought it up because now again i'm being intentional in doing something that i know we have enjoyed alisa is sensing that as pressure and so we had to have a little bit of a conversation which led to basically i need to think about this on alisa's part to go like am i is that really happening yes we were still able to recover it wasn't a we have to have oral sex tonight it was more of a can you please at least think about it so we can determine what that does look like for our sexual intimacy and foreplay in particular but it didn't derail us from it we were still able to have fun we had an amazing lovemaking session and we were able to move forward from that. I think the big thing is, and I realize now with us even sharing this episode with you, I was being intentional with something I know we have done. Elisa on the other side began to feel pressure every time I was and am moving towards that direction. And so it's something we need to work through and determine and understand what's happening and what's that

dynamic within our foreplay for us. And yeah, that's just a tiny little one, you know, proof that Tony and I get behind these microphones and you guys are going to hear real time that we are not perfect. And that's important to us that you don't think that we have this perfect life that, you know, all six pillars are, you know, always just functioning at a hundred percent, but it's also to to recognize like we're still as we work through this as you guys work through this like what does it look like to bridge that gap between the the tension and the pressure to look at this like we want a marriage that is built deliberately but sometimes that feels like pressure and so it it does start to go and this comes all the way back to the six pillars of intimacy you know virtually everything we do here comes back to the six pillars of intimacy right within that book we talk about for each one of the pillars we talk about baby steps right those small actions that you can do repeatedly over time to get you where you want to go because in bridge

this place where intentionality feels like pressure, it may mean that you have to start smaller on the plan than what you are originally thinking. Because I am married to a big dreamer, a big thinker. Tony doesn't think in details. Tony thinks-

I can do details.

Tony does. Yeah, I was just going to say, let me say this. Tony is actually very good at details. His preference would be to think big picture most of the time and not be mired in the muck. and so you know when it comes to something like this Tony could be like well let's just overhaul the marriage right like let's just go after that guys he's the one that came up with the 60-day sex challenge that was not my idea right but but to focus on and my point sharing that story is like what happens if you come back to a baby step and you just focus on one pillar instead of trying to overhaul your marriage you look at one of the six pillars emotional physical financial spiritual recreational section when you say hey what what would it look like if we just chose one pillar and that was our focus not that you just like throw out the other five but you pick one so that you can both be in alignment on what the focus is because sometimes some of you are trying to have like you know more emotional intimacy and so you're whipping out the conversation cards and some of you're like well we also need to have a money meeting and and then we need to you know make sure we're sitting next to each other on the couch. And that's a lot. Not that you can't work your way there, but it's a lot to just be in this place where it's like, we're going to try and do

all of that at once. And I love this. I think, you know, pick one pillar for seven days. Let's see what happens. How are you going to, how are you going to make a change there? And again, not everything gets pushed to the side, but it's just going, okay, this one week, what are we going to do. Right. Emotional intimacy wise, maybe it is you pick up an emotion wheel and just once over the week or twice over the week, you just sit down for 15 minutes and go through the wheel and share where you're at. Yeah. I think, you know, spiritual intimacy, if it's something that you've been like, Hey, we need to pray together instead of trying to pray together all seven days a week let's just do it once this week and for many of us i think we put a number to something more times we do it the better it is and i would disagree sometimes because we become complacent and we sort of just go ah it's just something else and elisa and i have done this it's sort of like we were doing this prayer thing ourselves and it was on our calendar three times a week and i think that was a good amount but i think sometimes we we sort of was like yeah i think if we were to just get together once a week and pray fervently for one another, for the one family, for our children, for marriages around the world, for our friends, what would that do? And maybe it's a one-time deal that lasts 30 minutes instead of three times that last five minutes. And again, the timing doesn't really matter, but our presence there together matters instead of it feeling just sort of like a, all right, well, this is something else. Like, so what's one pillar you can look at this week and become and be intentional with

it, be on purpose, be on purpose. And this is something, you know, this is, this is very much how I coach. And so you guys are kind of getting like a little mini coaching session right here, right? Because the, it's not just like what pillar are we going to focus on? It's also what actions feels doable in that. and I know those of you that like to make the plan um you've got 22 actions that you're ready to just like bombard your spouse spouse with and the one that feels pressure is just sitting there braced for the onslaught of well we could do this so we could do this we could do this we could do this we could do this and you're they're like I don't want to be in this conversation but when we change the question from hey what are we going to do to what feels doable well now the one who feels more pressured can start to have a voice. And if you're the one that generally feels pressured, I'm going to, I'm going to push on you a little bit. I don't know, is it going to move your marriage forward? I know it's tempting to say it. I know sometimes you may have to just pause and say, you know what, let me, let me think about that because it's stepping into this place and don't throw out an action just to make your spouse happy. Like, cause you're going to come to resent that, right? Don't just say, well, you know, like if we were talking emotional intimacy and you know, your spouse would love to have conversations five days a week. And you're like, well, let's sit down for five days, you know, 15 minutes, five days a week. If that's not what, what your doable action is, don't put it out there.

And I would say from the other side of this, because in our marriage, I'm typically the one who's like, well, let's do this. I'm the one going, Hey, Elisa, right? I'm.

the one wanting to be intentional on purpose, Alisa's more like, okay, sounds good. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's the dynamic we have in our marriage. And what I would say to you is if your spouse goes, hey, let's do this, then go for it. Like, okay, sounds great. Like, let's do that this week. Now, sometimes they're not going to follow through. And that is part of being human, I think we will say things, we will appease somebody, and then we don't follow through. And that can, that's a whole nother thing that we could talk about and address what I would say for you in that situation. If this is a cycle that you are going through, you definitely need to look at marriage coaching. You do, you need somebody in there to start assessing what's going on and hold each of you accountable to what you want to go and achieve in your marriage, because it doesn't, there, there is a process, there is a game plan at times that needs to be addressed. There's a lot of things from underneath. There's, there's a lot of other issues that may be happening. You may be in married five years. You may have been married 30 plus years. So we also have to need, have to address what has happened in your life and in your marriage as a couple. So if that is you, I would say go to one extraordinary marriage.com slash coaching, learn more about it, check it out, but more importantly apply because there's no obligation, but it starts you down the path of going, we can do this. And I want to say, don't wait because we are finding out too many couples are waiting six, seven years before they take action to do something and it is our desire to move that down where maybe it's three years or four years maybe it's two years where you start taking action so you're not sitting on something for six or seven years and then you come to us or a counselor or therapist or whoever you may go and you're at

the edge you're at the end let's not wait that long absolutely absolutely so this week you know you're thinking about it, you know, think about the one pillar. What is a doable action? And then at the end of the week, you do need to have another conversation, right? It's not just like we chose this pillar and we decided to do this action, but coming to the end of that seven days, right? Let's have a conversation and let's talk not about this week from the standpoint of this is a performance review, like, well, you only did this three times or you didn't initiate or, you know, you, you, you, you, you, but instead come back to three core questions. What worked for us? Okay. What worked? Maybe nothing worked, but at least you can discuss it as a team instead of you didn't, or you should have. What felt pressured? Maybe it was the days of the week that you chose. Maybe it was the time of day that you chose. Maybe you didn't actually look at your calendar, you know, or it's right now as this episode's being recorded, we're in May. There can be all kinds of end of school year, getting ready for summer type stuff, and a whole bunch of things can get added to a calendar, and you didn't take that into account. And then finally, the third question is, what should we adjust? What should we adjust? The two of you are on the same team. Figuring out where and how to be intentional about your marriage is not just his responsibility or her responsibility. It is our responsibility. And so when you look at these questions, it's not about grading one another. It's about learning and dialoguing with one another, getting to know each other again so that the marriage you're creating, the extraordinary that you're going after, well, you're both a part of it. And that's where the magic happens. That's where you start to say, you know what? Instead of pressure, there is hope because of what we're building together.

Yeah. I love it. And again, I would say if this is a place that you've been feeling like, man, we can overcome this, look at coaching, go to one extraordinary marriage.com slash coaching. I also want to say in a big shout out to every single person and couple who joined our six pillars of intimacy certified coaching program. We are opening up and we have opened up so that way we can get more coaches out there for you. We know many of you are in different parts of the world, different parts of the country, and we have come to realize that by us teaching and sharing the six pillars, we are going to be able to help more of you because of where you are and pastors are in it and lay ministers and just regular people who want to make an impact. So those folks are going to be coming online as coaches here in the next couple of months, but don't wait. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. something going you can be intentional on purpose even if you feel like there's some pressure behind it you got this this week go pick one pillar go see what you can do with one week just seven days what does that look like for you your spouse and your marriage you guys it's always an honor and a blessing to be with you each and every week and from myself and from Elisa keep at it keep going keep pressing in look at those pillows which one has a crack which two have a crack which one is strong and continue to go we can do this together however that may look We all have different places and stages and seasons of life that we're in. So don't look at us. Don't look at the person across the street, but look at each other so you can have your extraordinary marriage. You guys have yourselves a fantastic week. Love you guys.