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From Estero, Florida, this is a one extraordinary marriage show. Where being busy is overdone, romancing is fun, and scheduling sex has taken the guesswork out of wondering when you're going to get some. Creators of the Six Pillars of Intimacy, I'm Tony DeLorenzo, your co-host, along with my beautiful wife, Elisa. From coast to coast and around the world, thank you for joining us. It's time to talk sex, love, and commitment. Give us a call or text us on the HUG hotline at 858-876-5663 or send us an email to hugs at oneextraordinarymarriage.com. In today's episode, we're talking about what happens when one spouse takes an area of intimacy off the table, why it impacts the whole marriage, and how couples can begin addressing what has

been avoided. There's an anonymous quote that says, avoidance is not peace. And I think as we talk about this today, you're going to see that that is very much the case in marriages where something is being avoided. But first, we start every episode with a hug. It's an opportunity for us to celebrate you, to celebrate what you're doing in your marriage, to celebrate breakthrough and transformation that you have. And this hug came from a post that was in the One Family private Facebook group that says, today is our 10-year anniversary. I wanted to thank this group and especially Tony and Elisa for helping our marriage grow. Seeing the posts and listening to the podcast has helped our marriage so much. We've overcome intimacy challenges for all six pillars, overcome a 20-year porn addiction that I had, and have created some great habits to do daily to strengthen our marriage. So thank you all for helping our marriage strive to be extraordinary.

I love it. Congratulations to you both.

And I just love when you guys recognize one another and the power of the one family and of our community here. You know, as Tony said at the top of this episode, we're talking about what happens when one spouse takes an area of intimacy off the table. And the catalyst for this episode came from a number of emails from husbands that I was receiving, that we were receiving here at One Extraordinary Marriage that gave some version of, my wife doesn't believe physical or sexual intimacy is important because she personally doesn't need it. Or my wife doesn't think sex and need are sex and touch are needs within a marriage. And another shared that his wife said she'll never have sex again and will not engage in physical touch because that could lead to sex. And I want to say those are all incredibly difficult statements to hear. And a lot of you even just hearing those statements and hearing Tony say at the top, you know, when intimacy is off the table are maybe thinking this episode is all going to be about physical and sexual intimacy. And we are going to talk about those two pillars. Absolutely. But this issue, this issue is actually bigger than sexual intimacy or physical intimacy. We're talking about the fact that in a lot of marriages, one spouse is saying that closeness and connection, which we all know, you've been listening to this show for any length of time, you know, that's the true definition of intimacy. When somebody is saying that closeness and connection in one of the pillars is off the table. That's what this episode is about because it's not just sex and it's not just touch. It's financial intimacy where a spouse is like, I don't want to talk about our money. I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to bring it up. Or recreational intimacy where somebody is like, I don't want to go on dates. I don't want to go spend time with you. That actually came up in a conversation I had with one of our certified coaching candidates, they had a scenario where that was happening. We've seen so many conversations and had so many conversations with folks over the year around emotional intimacy. I don't do feelings. I don't want to talk about my feelings. I don't need to deal with feelings or even spiritual intimacy. Like I'm not going to pray with you. I'm not going to go to church with you. My faith is private. So it's not just physical and sexual intimacy.

I want to say this. This can be either husband or wife. This isn't just from a wife's perspective or from the husband. Now, the emails we got were from all husbands. That doesn't mean that we haven't gotten those types of emails in the past, or we may get them in the future from wives.

look at all six pillars of intimacy, those can go either way. A hundred percent. So I just want to make sure we all understand there is no stereotype here. We've seen it all. And we believe that this is individual. This is to your marriage, not a stereotype that our society wants to put on us, but we need to look at ourselves. We need to look at our marriage and we need to go where in my life, where in our marriage have we taken intimacy off the table,

closeness and connection right because this message that gets conveyed you know what this this whatever this is sexual intimacy financial intimacy emotional to me if it doesn't matter to me then it doesn't need to matter to us is the message that is being conveyed if it doesn't matter to me it shouldn't matter to you and I just want to say out loud just because something doesn't matter to you doesn't mean that it's not important to your marriage like I'm just going to tell y'all. Your spouse may find it to be very important. And it does matter to them. And if it matters to them, guess what? The two shall become one. By default, it actually matters to you. You're just not engaging in that. And I do want to say, because we are, it needs to be said, this is not about forcing a spouse to do something, pressuring them, guilting them to do something. if there is real fear pain resentment trauma whatever it might be existing hurts those need to be dealt with like let me let me just put that at the beginning but getting into this place of looking at your overall healthier marriage it's going to be challenged when one person makes a unilateral decision that this is not an option for us right this is off the table and it closes a door between a husband and a wife it it radically shakes the strength in the foundation of your

marriage i think it becomes a tip for tap honestly when we look at our six pillars of intimacy because it's really easy if i say hey financial intimacy to me or finances it's off the table i don't want to talk about it i don't care about it and you could go the other way and you can go well fine sex is off the table then and it just becomes okay i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna hold into where like i'm gonna just burrow down and go i don't care about this you could do the same thing and

i think in a lot of marriages you're right i do think it becomes a tit for tat i think in a lot of other marriages it becomes such a deep wound between the two of them that there is just this chasm in certain pillars in certain pillars right because because one person is like hey i want to engage with you here. This is an important area of our marriage and you won't give me anything, right? And I think about our own marriage. Like, let me tell you all, you would not be listening to this podcast. This is episode 919. You would not be listening to this podcast if I hadn't overcome my own stuff around our sexual intimacy pillar. Because I will tell you straight up, I had taken this pillar decades ago. I had taken this pillar off the table in our marriage. I had told Tony straight up, I don't need it. I don't know why this is so important to you. I could live without it. I was in my mid thirties when I was making all these statements, probably early thirties when I was making those statements. I mean, the podcast is 16 years old. So that puts me at 30. So it was probably early thirties when I was saying all of this, right? I had said all of those things and I had taken it off the table. And if we'd never put it back on the table and done our 60 day sex challenge, besides the fact that it dramatically changed the trajectory of our marriage, one extraordinary marriage would not exist. Yeah. And I think on my side, you look

at the emotional intimacy. And if you listen to those early episodes of one extraordinary marriage show, it was me working through that myself. I was willing to put that on the table. I'd gotten hardened in my own life and in my own self of why do I need to bring this up? What does it matter? And I had taken that off the table. So I was willing. And when we did our 60 day sex challenge was willing to go there. When I say go there, I was willing to be open, honest, and transparent with Elisa, my wife, not with everybody, not with anybody, but with Elisa and was willing to, to go after stuff that I had feared. Talk about things that I was fearful of bringing up to her. And so we both had to concede somewhere. We both had to be willing to step into something new and be willing to go through it and see the outcome. And as many of you know, our life has not always been, and nor has our marriage always been, since that point in time, all rainbows and unicorns. It's been 18 years, almost 19 years since we did that. But we still have been willing, at times, to open up the door and get close. and connected. Have those doors shut? Have those pillars had cracks in them in our marriage? Absolutely. And that is part of the journey. And I think as we talk about this today, what intimacy is off the table right now for you? Be thinking about that. Because if we want to see change in our marriages, we want to be extraordinary. We're going to have to be intentional.

We're going to have to take action somewhere. Yeah. And you know, I mean, think about it. Because when the intimacy, whichever pillar that is, comes off the table, you're not just dealing with, okay, that pillar is off the table, right? That intimacy is not, we're not going to engage in that. But it's what does that avoidance, what does that rejection start to communicate to your spouse? I mean, you'll have somebody that one of the messages that came in, husband had said that sex was rare. So he had asked for non-sexual touch, right? Non-sexual affection, like snuggling, touch, closeness. And she's not engaging in that either. And he said, I don't feel like a priority in her life. And I think that's what we start to uncover here. Like what happens? And again, this could happen in a financial intimacy scenario where one spouse is saying, I'm not going to discuss finances with you, or I'm not going to discuss, you know, I'm not going to sit down for a money conversation. Okay, there's that same rejection. There is that same like, hey, I want to have a conversation with you around emotional intimacy. And, you know, no, I'm not going to, we're just going to keep things that, you know, the surface level.

No need to go any deeper than this. We'll engage with one another from a chores, a day-to-day activity. And yet for us to go any deeper than that, that's off the table.

So you get into feelings of rejection. You get into a bitterness, resentment. These things start to percolate because it's like, why, why am I not a priority in the marriage? Why is this not important to you? Why can we not talk about it, right? What is going on between the two of us? And one spouse even said in another email interaction that we had, I want my marriage back. And I think that one statement, and again, that is not solely talking about sexual intimacy, right? When somebody gets to the point where they say, I want my marriage back, they want that closeness and connection. They want that intimacy. They want to feel known. seen, heard, valued. Words that we talk about a lot on the show because, you know, the reality is we don't get married to be alone. We don't get married to have zero conversations about certain areas of our marriage. Like, think back to your wedding day. Just pause for a second wherever you're at. Obviously, if you're driving, keep driving. But on your wedding day, I would guess a very, very high 90 something percent of you anticipated that you were going to be sharing all aspects of yourself, your life, who you are with your spouse. And when a pillar of intimacy comes off the table, you miss that. And I'll tell you, it's not that everyone's going to see it the same way because they won't, but it's stepping into this place. Hey, wait a minute. If this matters to my spouse, am I willing to choose to understand why it matters to them? And after the break, we need to talk about what you can do when intimacy has come off the table. If you miss the first cohort of the six pillars of intimacy certified coaching program, your next opportunity begins August 18th. Here's what some participants have said. We've been wishing there was something like this we could be a part of. And having the framework gives us a way to actually open conversations with other couples. This program is for coaches, ministry leaders, pastors, and mentors who want to help couples with more clarity, structure, and confidence. The next cohort starts August 18th. Apply at oneextraordinarymarriage.com slash cert. That's oneextraordinarymarriage.com slash C-E-R-T. I can't wait to have you as part of this next group. We're back and we're having a slightly spirited conversation because I feel like Tony and I have both kind of maybe come on a little strong because this one's personal, right? We recognize that like we've done this ourselves. And I think it's why when we started getting those emails, it was like, oh my gosh, we have to talk about this because we know the damage. We know the consideration you guys of when intimacies come off the table for an extended period of time, we know the thoughts. We know that divorce is one of those things that starts to percolate.

Yeah. And when we see this and we hear it a lot from more of the sexual and physical intimacy, that non-sexual side of things. I just want to make sure that we all understand that we're seeing all six pillars because the other four do matter in our marriages. And so if you have seen it in your own marriage or maybe

you're the one who's taken it off the table. Maybe that recreational intimacy is one that you've taken off the table. It's the activities you do together, the fun you do together. Maybe life has just sort of gone away that you didn't think. And you begin to hold back. You begin to not express the joy you had with one another anymore. That's painful to a spouse into a marriage where maybe that was something you did often. And so be aware that it's not only

about sex and physical touch. There's much more going on. I actually think the other four are super stealth because it's very evident when physical or sexual intimacy has come off the table. I feel like you can be a little stealthier about, well, I feel like I'm too busy or we're not going to do this with a meeting or a conversation, or I don't have time right now. And so you just kind of like keep throwing up barriers around interactions in those particular pillars, but it has the same impact. When any pillar of intimacy is off the table, it weakens the foundation of your marriage. And so ultimately, like as you start thinking through, and I know Tony asked you all to think earlier in this conversation, like which pillar of intimacy might be off the table right now, like it might be time to actually name that pillar. You name that pillar for

yourself. Correct. This is a what can I do moment. This isn't the, well, my spouse. It's so easy for us to point the finger. And believe you me, been there, done that many a times. We got a lot of podcast episodes to prove that. And yet the most transformation happens when I recognize a pillar in myself that has cracks some episodes ago we talked about and I shared where I saw cracks in our emotional intimacy where Elisa and I are constantly just yelling across the the house or wherever we are and it's causing frustration I didn't point the figure at Elisa and go you know you're the one who needs to make a change no I made the change I began to do something different So please, when you see this, look at yourself first. It's always easy to see our spouse. You can look at your spouse, but you better self-analyze what's going on with you first and foremost. Get into some prayer time. Seek wisdom from others if needed. Seek wisdom from the Lord. Where is it, Lord? Show me. Reveal it to me.

It's interesting that you should bring up that particular action because I did have a conversation with one of these spouses, one of the husbands specifically, who had said, hey, sexual intimacy is off the table. And so we're just kind of talking through what the dynamic has looked like. And it turns out that he has not been very emotionally available. And so to the point that Tony is making right now, it can be super easy to say, hey, this is off the table or you've taken this off the table. But when you self-reflect and you can come to yourself first and foremost with honesty and then come to your spouse, hey, I recognize this pillar has cracks. I recognize that, that this is, you know, I've taken this off the table or I haven't been as engaged in this. And you're talking about the pillar of intimacy that changes the conversation because people are much more receptive to hearing what you've done than hearing what you think they're doing. Right. So, so talk about that pillar. Talk about why it's been avoided. Right. Like what has happened in our dynamic? What have I, why have I stopped doing Tony mentioned around the emotional intimacy, that for him, it was a lot of fear. It was hardened. Those were some of the words that he used. I know for me with the sexual intimacy, I'd had two babies in three years, a miscarriage in between. I had lots, and we just weren't, from an emotional and a sexual standpoint, we just weren't connecting. And I didn't have the words to be able to engage in that. And so that was why it was being avoided. you know and so when you start to share about maybe there's fear or shame exhaustion her whatever it might be that's creating that gap let me tell you something i've seen it time and time again in coaching sessions once you can start to identify those things you can do something about it right and that's where you go into this place of what's the baby step right every single chapter in the book, The Six Pillars of Intimacy, The Secret to an Extraordinary Marriage that deals with one of the pillars of intimacy has a section called Baby Steps. Why? Because we start small on purpose. You can't fix any particular pillar of intimacy in just one conversation. It is going to be those small actions that you do consistently over time.

right Tony did not single-handedly change our emotional intimacy recently just by showing up in my office one day to have a conversation with me he did that repeat he still does it guys he's still doing it now like we're both doing it we walk back and forth to each other's workspaces all day long even the other day I he was um hopping in the shower I thought he was done talking and so I left the bathroom and all of a sudden I'm like oh he's still talking and instead of you yelling back or ignoring him or whatever. I'm like, hold on. And I walked back in. I said, I thought you were done. I'm coming back in to have the conversation with you.

And we're working on it. Hear me when I say this. We're not perfect. We're working on it. We're still working. We're building a new habit. We're doing the reps. So that way, what once, and I'm not going to say it was off the table, and yet our emotional intimacy, that closeness and connection was, had some gaps in it because of walls and doors and hallways and everything else in between. And so I want you to know that you're going to have to take some baby steps and sometimes it doesn't go as planned and it's okay. Sometimes you got to realize that there's some frustration. There are some frustrations. There are frustrations with myself because sometimes I'm starting to yell back at Elisa. And I'm like, no, Tony, that's not how we do this. Sometimes she's yelling at me when I'm not in the room. And I'm like, Elisa, stop yelling at me. I don't hear you. So I move myself instead of lashing out, which is what I was doing before. Like, I can't like just, I don't lashing out, but I would be like, I can't hear you. Instead, I'm moving myself. I'm getting into proximity to her, to hear her. So understand we are a work in progress. We are not perfect. We work towards that and knowing that we'll never get there. There's only one perfect person who's ever walked this earth and his name is Jesus Christ. And I'm not that person. Neither are you. And I just, you know, I'm just going to throw out

a couple of small actions that maybe you'll take in one of a couple of these pillars, right? Physical intimacy. It might just be a longer hug or choosing to hold hands or sitting next to each other, right? Financial intimacy. You might choose to have a 15 minute money check-in. I actually have one of my coaching clients. They were talking about, you know, accounts and stuff like that. Literally their action item is every seven days just to look at what was in and out of their account just for a seven day window. We're keeping it small just to start flexing that financial intimacy. Recreational intimacy. What's one low cost date that the two of you could do or sit down and play a game together, right? Start small. Emotional intimacy. One conversation without trying to fix your spouse or the situation. Spiritual intimacy. What's one prayer or how can I pray for you this week, right? It's not about having, you know, this pillar suddenly take, you know, 180 degrees and be amazing. It's what is one small action that starts bringing this pillar back to the table, right? What, what does engagement look like? And I will say this, that for some of you, your spouse has said, I'm done, right? And they don't have a willingness to talk or to take action. And this continued avoidance isn't going to work for your marriage. And that may mean that it's time for professional help, whether that's counseling, coaching, maybe they need medical support or you need, you know, some sort of engagement with a professional, with somebody that's not the two of you and not like a best buddy or a best friend, right? A professional that can help the two of you navigate this because it doesn't matter to me. That's, that's not the end of the story, right? The end of the story is what do you start doing once you've name that pillar, getting honest about the actions that you've avoided and stepping into a place where you recognize that your marriage is so much more extraordinary when the two of you are not

avoiding what's been happening. Yeah. Hey, as you think about this this week and you look at, okay, what pillar of intimacy have I taken off the table? What pillar of intimacy have we taken off the table. Take some time. Think about it. Pray about it. Step in. Realize it. It may come to you quickly. It may take a little bit of time, but I'm sure there's somewhere in your marriage where there's friction, where there's resistance that has caused a massive gap and a crack in one of, and maybe even a couple of your pillars of intimacy. Take a small step this week. Be intentional.

do something that can make a shift. And for some of you, like Elisa said, maybe that shift is that you do need to get professional help. Put in a phone call. Send in an application for coaching. Do something this week that begins to put that pillar of intimacy back on the table so that you can have the extraordinary marriage you desire. You guys have yourselves a fantastic week. It is truly an honor and blessing to have you part of the one family. We can't tell you how much we are proud of what you guys do through the six pillars. And it's not us, it's you. And so we thank you for all that you do to continue to champion marriage in your own marriage, but even for those outside of yours and to shine the light on how beautiful this covenant is between a husband and a wife. We love you guys. Take care and we'll catch you next week. Love you guys.

We'll see you next time.