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Did you shoot a baby? He's like, yep, yeah, I shot a baby.

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Ahoy mateys This is Under the Docks With Paranoid American And Uncle Sean Charting through treacherous ways of documentaries to let you know do they sink or do they swim you got a doc you want reviewed contact us at paranoidamerican.com under the docs.com or kill the mockingbirds.com and don't forget to like subscribe and share share share the show and this is going to be a fun one

i think this one's about um tropical drinks called my ties you like my ties right oh i love them all right let's plot the course on this one the name of this documentary is called cover-up it's 2025 it was directed by laura poitras and mark obenhouse and it explores the background of a investigative journalist named seymour hirsch so he's got pulitzer prizes he's got all sorts of accolades one of his big claims the fame and the main focus of this documentary among a few others was that he's a journalist that covered the my lie massacre i must have misread the show notes i i saw my tie i was like this is going to be a fun one apparently it's not going to be as fun so there was a my lie massacre which was actually a collection of massacres which were the largest amount of civilians massacred by U.S. troops in the entire 20th century. So let's talk about some fun My Lai Massacre stuff.

Yeah, I guess we misinterpreted the notes. That was a little smudge, right, from the drink from our Mai Tais that may have spilled on this. But yeah, they kind of uncovered where he kind of breaks down how he got some information. The one thing I will say about this film, and it starts out with this specific My Lai Massacre, is where it's like, oh, you can see the benefits of journalism and how journalism works. And like, it's very quirky. It's not like you're, you kind of get lucky, right? You find a source that someone tells you something and then you investigate that source. And there's a lot of people that are willing to talk to you. I think you mentioned it before when we talked about like hackers, how we're saying like people misconstrue what hackers do. And you're like, yeah, well, nowadays, hacking is basically just getting information from people any way you can, whether it's over the phone talking to them or like getting into their email but the best way to get their password is usually talking to somebody and i think that's the same thing that could be said with journalism that he kind of gets you know there's a guy that he goes like oh he's locked up and he's like hey let me go interview him and he's like yeah they call my my sergeant he told me to do it he calls the guy he's like i don't know what he's talking about that guy's crazy bro and then he's like i saw his face where he's like oh i'm the fall guy and like everything changed and that how this even mentions that he kind of accidentally in the beginning gets into journalism right it's kind of fate for him you know his dad doesn't want him to go to college they talk about his upbringing and he's like you got to run the store man you know how to do it your brother he's more of a college guy you're you're

running the store and that it was fate for him to be in journalism that he never was supposed to and that's kind of how it unfolds through each story that he's telling yeah he describes it

it reminds me of like a mr magoo sort of dynamic where you're just kind of like bumbling around and and falling upward essentially and the premise of this entire documentary cover up is about his life's work right so they talk about him as a kid and he went to college even even though his parents didn't want him to, they want him to run the company store and all this. And that eventually he just kind of falls into this path of being a journalist and ends up writing some of the most influential cases ever, like these big exposés and that his particular line of work in investigative journalism is things that the state is doing wrong. And just to point out too, that the, one of the directors here, Laura Poitras, she also directed citizen four, which is a similar thing about edward snowden um and then she also wrote one about sackler family so both seymour hirsch in the the world of newsprint media and laura poitras in the world of like making documentaries they both kind of have this trend this is sort of their niche is to do these big cover-up exposés on what the government's doing so uh props on that one this one again it focused almost entirely for the large first portion of it on the mylai massacre so if you're not familiar with the mylai massacre this is some claims of over 300 some claims of over 500 but that over 500 civilians were massacred by u.s army that it's the largest confirmed massacre of civilians in the 20th century by u.s troops and that it was perpetrated by a couple different companies so that this is one of the ones that stood out to me is that even though it's called the my life massacre that alone is a whitewashing that's sort of a euphemism because it should have been called like the multiple my life massacres that all happened on the same day by multiple companies uh throughout the u.s army so right that alone i had no idea i've heard about the my life massacre i didn't realize it was more than just one place and more than just one group of people so the first group that usually gets referenced was c company headward headed by captain ernest medina and he basically enters they just number these different villages in my life so he enters a village of my life four and they're looking for the vietcong the specifically like the 48th battalion of vietcong they don't find them anywhere in this in this little village or in any other village but instead of just turning around and looking i guess they get frustrated they start demanding you know where the vietcong nobody's giving them up or nobody is knows what's going on because they just live in this village so the soldiers round up everyone in the village which is mostly women children and elderly men because all of the able-bodied military age men are actually probably off doing military stuff just not here so the u.s soldiers

round everyone up and they just kill them all in various ways and do way worse things than just killing them i'll lead it to your imagination but imagine like universal soldier the worst possible part where the guy comes out with the necklace full of ears and he's probably done even worse things than that it's it's that level this is what we're talking about that's probably the inspiration for that scene in universal soldier was at the level of this myli massacre

and then that they just like you said they not only made it to seem like one event uh they go further and say the officers that were involved and they kind of like they try to break down how the official military courts go and then like you know people obviously denying it like oh we didn't know really what like that was going on crazy when did that happen let me look into this right I'm gonna

I'm gonna run this one up the chain I'm gonna ask my boss about this don't worry like it

got really lost for a while and then Seymour to his credit seems to be the thorn in their side to kind of force not that anything crazy happened right like they kind of got a slap on the wrist it seems like they're like they didn't get in trouble what you think right there's no war crime like that's what his his shtick is too right kind of like pointing out war crimes and like specifically on america though i will say that is one note i've noticed that he's like specifically only goes after america like he does he's makes it seem sometimes that like oh the other countries are good bro like it's just america man and like i think it's war bro like but that's that's a different thought

well that's his niche yeah a hundred percent his niche is um the state in power perpetrating things against like civilians or weaker people that's that's his shtick and that's the the angle that usually takes a lot of this and that's some of the criticism you You don't just to point out, you do not get very much criticism from people outside of Seymour Hersh in this documentary. It's it's really like a day in the life or here's a life of Seymour Hersh and here's how he's like now and here's the way that he thinks and here's how he manages relationships. It's not here's an entire profile on the man from an objective point of view. So on the on this Myline Massacre, to finish up some of the notes on this one, he was the thorn in the side. He was the one guy in the media, and he even mentioned that he would start going to some of these official White House and Washington press conferences, and he would see a top New York Times reporter sit down and get a story told to him, and then the next day read verbatim the exact thing that the state told the reporter, that's the article. and he said it was blowing his mind it was like oh he didn't realize how much power that the politicians had in the news media where they're just like here's the article i've already written it for you just publish it and put your name on it and that was happening so he either made a conscious decision or always from the start never thought like that he was never like i'm not going to take your word for this you're probably lying to me right so that's part of what made him unique in in his own way and that this led to originally the my life massacre again the multiple my life massacres were like over 500 people were likely murdered again none of these were military aged men it was literally children women and old people that was the only people that essentially died in these massacres that it was originally reported in the media and across the military and everywhere as a victory it was like they went out there they took out these vietcon troops you know let more vietcong are dying than americans are dying therefore we're winning this war that was sort of like the paraphrase quote that you see them reporting like in the actual news media and then it slowly comes out like okay except for this one thing and that one thing ends up getting pinned on 26 different, um, army soldiers, but only one person out of the 26 that he gets pinned on one person, Lieutenant William, uh, Callie jr. He's the leader of the first platoon and sea company that was in that one town, not the one next to it, which was B company, but only in the first town. He's the only one that is convicted. He's found guilty of murdering 22 villagers out of the 500 plus that died that day, 22. and he's given a life sentence but he ends up serving three and a half years under house arrest

and then after that the entire sentence is commuted so this guy who gets the entire thing the multiple massacres pinned on this one guy and then he ends up doing three and a half years on house arrest and then that's it and i believe i found that he like lived and retired and died in florida at like the age of 90 something or like 88 or something so this is the one guy that gets pinned on all the myli massacres and even he doesn't spend any time in jail he just goes on house arrest until i guess the news media reports die out a little bit and then he's able

to rejoin society and isn't that the same guy that they also were rallying behind right didn't they have like a campaign where they're playing a record of like free him and then the the towns were all like amped they were like we're pressing these records like crazy and like they really had the propaganda strong well the americanism and nationalism is strong propaganda because people are like you know he's just doing his job man like he's just getting those vietcongs and you can tell that these people haven't like researched anything and i will add it's part of the element it starts here two things happen here from this my leg massacre seymour realizes like oh this happens quite a bit like this is not a one-off and then the other thing you start to notice is that there's this side that the patriotic side is like we hate seymour like he's a he's uh he should be deported he should be murdered whatever they think they don't think positively around seymour

hirsch well and it's easy to see that dynamic because part of it is you got all these hippies and anti-war activists that are running around without shirts on and they stink and they're smoking weed in the streets right so then when something comes out seymour hirsch comes out and he's like hey like some of these hippies are kind of right man this like war machine just killing babies out there right and and so and this is the craziest part is they actually get the guy that is getting charged with all this it was involved in the my life massacre on tv for an interview and in the interview the guys i mean he's given every opportunity to lie the guy's not lying and i think he's just in shell shock or whatever but the the interviewer is like so uh you know so no men right it was all based

basically men, it was just all women and children and older people. Right. He's like, yep. He's like, were there babies? He's like, yep. He's like, did you shoot a baby? He's like, yep. Yeah. I shot a baby. And the guy's like, how, like, how do you find yourself doing that? I'm paraphrasing a little bit. It's like, like, how do you find yourself shooting a baby? Like what, how does that happen? He's like, you know, it's just one of those things. And then it shows all of the newspaper clippings like u.s soldier can you know convicted of massacre quote it's just one of those things right so when those articles start coming out all the hardcore patriots are like oh man the media is turning into these hippie liberals and they're they're against the you know the state and therefore everything they're doing is bad and you can kind of see seymour hirsch in the middle of that where it's like i don't know maybe i am a commie pinko but also these dudes like literally murdered babies and women you know like in the for no reason they just killed civilians so isn't that wrong and then people are like you know down with seymour hirsch you just you just hate america

that that was the funny aspect of it because it's each thing that he brings up it's like he he is coming up and uh with facts right like he's he's like well this is real information because they're like they point to i don't want to get too deep into the weeds but i know then they start going to like the cambodian bombings right they talk about how like this isn't a one-off and he starts going down this journey of government cover-ups which leads him to uh some of the white uh the the watergate stuff right like he gets into like the watergate stuff where he's like showing the this watergate is the one proof actually like even in uh uh cast sunstein when he writes his paper cognitive infiltration he goes yeah conspiracy theories are bad but even though like that one conspiracy watergate was real and then that's where like you see the catalyst of like things to change but i just thought it was interesting how they follow his life and they go oh this is really where the meat and potatoes comes in is that he started with the my life massacre which got him on this whole journey yeah it goes first he works on my life

massacre then he starts working on the secret u.s bombing of cambodia then they talk about the cia domestic spying program under nixon era which i would say is really bush era nixon's like a prop anyways um and then it goes into that he reported on watergate which is like post nixon but he even seymour hirsch is talking about like he didn't want to work on watergate he he had way more important things that he thought were bigger news stories than watergate and that watergate the way that he describes it in his own words in this documentary is that it was almost like a distraction it was like what they were throwing all the reporters at to like keep them busy and he was sitting there saying but what about like these other 20 things that i want to look into but since watergate was what everyone was pushing and wanted people wanted to read and write about that was kind of what he got roped into and then seymour hirsch has a post sort of early era so his early like he's got the greatest hits right his first few albums were his best albums it ever came out with. It was the My Lai Massacre, the U.S. bombing in Cambodia, Nixon and Watergate. And then you get this gap of like 30 years. He's still working, but then he gets these other big explosive

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law cts and c's 21 plus sponsored by chumba casino one of the biggest ones was the abu grabe story and this is where they were basically torturing the prisoners with electricity and humility like naked humiliation rituals and dog attacks and sexual assault like all kinds of horrible things and uh backstreet boys music things even worse than that so this came because somebody that i think was a mom of somebody that was actually stationed in this abu grabe she starts sending this insider information to seymour hirsch be

Because he's got this reputation of being the guy that exposes this stuff. And that's where this Abu Ghraib came from. It wasn't necessarily that he sat down. He's like, what are we going to look into today? Let's look into this Abu Ghraib thing. It was that he had already established a precedent of here's who he is and what he does. And then stories just kind of start coming to him after that point.

Yeah, because he got a source, right? These anonymous sources give him some material. And then they even show actually in this part, the mom who was, it was her former daughter-in-law that she was like, yeah, I let her borrow my laptop when she was deployed. She came back, gave me my laptop. And then I'm like, dang, there's some pictures. And then she noticed all these crazy pictures, felt the type of way. And then Seymour doing all his interviews throughout time he was on a radio station and he just told him, here's my number, call me up if you got anything. And then it just so happens that she called him up and goes, look, you want to see my laptop? I have these pictures. And then he's like, can I copy these? And then that just blew the top off. And I thought one of the interesting points, too, is he was like CBS was sitting on this story for like two, three weeks or something like that. And they didn't want to release it. And he goes, if you don't release it, I'm going to release mine on Monday. if you don't do a 60 minutes piece on it and i'm going to release mine and i'm going to say in my piece that hey cbs has been sitting on this doesn't want to release it and he kind of forced their hand to where they even had to go uh we've been sitting on this for two weeks but only because uh national security and like you know what i mean like they had a backtrack a little bit so i thought that was interesting too in the power dynamic because a lot of people think everything is just like well it's got to be these people are running it but there is annoyances that can push things be like i will expose you and make you look bad if you don't do what i want so i think the power dynamic can be for the little guys sometimes if you have the juicy information and then towards

the end of the documentary it kind of shows seymour hirsch talking with the documentary makers like they kind of break the fourth wall a little bit we're now they're in the shots and it's them reviewing all the things that seymour hirsch has giving them access to and he's going through the papers he's like you can't know who this person is oh my god this person too that's it this documentary is over you know and it almost if if we didn't get a feeling of like who seymour hirsch was by hearing him talk in his own words i would almost feel like this was an act at the end but i don't feel like it was an act i think like he legitimately was like oh my god i didn't realize that i gave you guys access to all of these secret sources that i have not revealed and he's as he's going through him he's like that's a cia agent that's a cia agent right and he's like i can't reveal these people he's like you're not allowed to put any of this you can't use any of this and they do they blur out like the names and all this stuff in the documentary but as he's doing that i was just thinking like it's it's such a interesting predicament to be in because a here's part of the the criticism that you find of Seymour Hersh outside of this documentary is that so many of the things that he writes and the claims and the articles are based on not just anonymous sources that he doesn't reveal the name or position or anything, but in some cases it is literally one anonymous source. And they, they action about that. you know, They're like, why, why would you build this whole long case and all these articles just on one source? And Seymour is kind of like, well, this one source has been right every time over the last 40 years. They've never been wrong about anything. So that's, I guess, part of the aspect of the criticism is that he doesn't give up his sources, but you can kind of understand why. But then it's also like when you ask him the show, okay, like, well, what's your source? It's a trust me, bro. It's like, I got a bro. So trust me, bro. now i don't want to call a massacre a hidden treasure but i do want to say that a renowned understanding of what the myline massacre was and that it was really multiple massacres and that only one person took the fall for over 500 people dying and that the person that killed he was only convicted of murdering 22 innocent civilians by the way not 500 but apparently if you kill 22 innocent civilians in an international war, you get three and a half years of house arrest, and then you get to retire in obscurity and live out a long life until you're well into your 80s or 90s.

That's a good deal, though, man. I'm saying that's either a good lawyer, I don't know how that works, or if the system's in your favor. Are you saying that the 478 other people that were dead that day, they got what was coming to them?

No, I think that what happened is that the guy that got caught for that, he was like, I'm going to find out who was responsible for killing those other 478 people, and I'm going to help bring them to justice. It was the same way that OJ was like, I'm going to find out who killed Nicole if it's the last thing I do.

Oh, yeah. And I do think that some of the hidden treasures, too, I liked how they brought up MKUltra, and they brought up chaos, right? like stuff that we've discussed and we're like fluent with i liked how they brought up like things the abu grave i like that they kind of touch a lot of stuff but one of my like i won't say if it's an overboard moment but it's more of a criticism because you're bringing up all this mk ultra and the and the church uh uh you know going over with the cia that the the senate hearings of like oh the cia is doing this but they never ever and maybe i missed it but i rewound it a few times i don't ever hear him say anything about operation mockingbird and i'm like yeah you kind of allude to it throughout the whole film like you know corporates in bed with the media the government's in bed with the media but they never specifically talk about operation mockingbird and i just found it like kind of weird like i was like on board for most of it i'm like hey this is good i get it to his memoir and i'm with you i thought at the end at first it was like an act like where he's like oh turn off the cameras i can't do this i know i said i would do this and then he comes back and he's like ah you know i said i'd do it so i'm gonna do it but then i think like from hearing some of the perspectives of people talking about him it's like okay he's kind of a loose cannon it's like right you don't know what you're they're like you don't know what you're gonna get with them he might be wild one day real calm one day and so i was like you know that kind of plays to the brand they've made but the biggest criticism to me was like all this stuff you talk about knowing about the corruption you're not gonna mention that operation mockingbird like he alludes to it like my editor was getting a direction from this guy and that guy why not

bring it up i think the good analogy that i'm and then this totally came to mind as i'm watching especially towards the end where he's like how did you get this no did i give you this oh my god you can't have this like when he starts doing that i'm just imagining that like you've someone out there has got a grandpa that was a genius right like ran multiple businesses and was just like sharp top of his game but then at some point grandpa gets swindled by some online like fake thought that's actually like a like a nigerian print scam right and grandpa sends all of his savings to someone on the internet and gets swindled out of it and it's like but grandpa you were so smart you know how did this happen it kind of feels like that angle of like seymour hirsch is like yeah he's he was uh he still is very talented investigative journalist and he's got all these credentials but also i feel like someone might be able to like convince him to give up their his bank details over the phone or something if you just like i got this hot tip but i need the last four of your social right now you know what was your first pet's name i feel like he's at that age where you can't no matter how smart you were during life you might end up falling for some of this stuff so they they kind of allude to in his later years and some of the stories that he's chasing that maybe it's easier to kind of like swindle him and maybe it's easier to lie to him especially since he's so beholden to these people now one of the the little deep dives that i did on this um there was one time that he was swindled pretty badly and these were called the jfk maryland monroe cusack papers and aka the dark side of camelot and this was supposed to There'd be this huge expose on JFK and Marilyn Monroe. And I guess that a lot of his research ended up being bunk. Not that like the state was able to suppress it in some of the other cases that he gets criticized for. But in this case, he just didn't really have his thumb on the pulse of this thing. Another one that he gets criticized for, which actually is way more topical now than it was when he was being criticized. but that one of his sources was this guy named Ari Ben Manashi and Manashi he basically was Israeli intelligence that I don't know if it's like a defector but the same way that Hirsch had insider CIA that would tell him like hey here's some crap going on man you might want to get the dip on this so Ari Ben Manashi was similar except for Israeli intelligence and he's the one that um that basically described the connection between at cox your internet and

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speeds and gig unlimited mobile taxes and fees excluded from price lock mobile data speeds reduced after 20 gigs are you having difficulty getting in with your primary care and find yourself sitting in a waiting room for an hour or two before you're finally seen and then when you finally do get in you may be seen for only five to seven minutes and believe it or not it's not even your provider's fault it's big insurance they're trying to keep and make as much money as possible i'm ashley pollard of the ashley clinic and i saw a need for a new way to deliver primary care it's called direct primary care where you can have a same day appointment and plenty of time with your provider come see us we'll take care of you the ashley clinic knowing

you is caring for you uh gislayne maxwell's father robert maxwell being massad intelligence and that when he fell off his his yacht and died that that was actually massad taking him out that came from he uh seymour hirsch directly through this ari ben manashi guy so originally when this came out was like that's crazy you know that's all conjecture and if you said that now you're like hey did you know that you know the maxwell family is in bevel massad people like sure who doesn't know that you know everyone's always known that that's never been under contest well that was specifically a criticism that was leveraged against uh seymour hearse that he believed this

and that's why i think it bugged me not him bringing up the operation mockingbird because i almost felt like the maryland monroe jfk like notes and diary thing or letters with uh was a employ to discredit him like i'm like yeah bro that's probably part of the program like you know what i mean you're you're hunting down the things they don't want you to know so what do they need to do they need to discredit you and that's why i thought it would be important

to bring it up yeah that he was kind of at risk and he kind of got got a little bit he did lose some of his credibility to where seymour hirsch might not be the same name as it was before a few of those stories came out that got heavily refuted so there was um another one too in like syria but uh it didn't have the pizzazz it doesn't have like a tv movie yet so no one would really know about it so sink or swim for cover up a story about seymour hirsch i gotta say for me

it does go like it's a little bit longer than i would like but i understand that they're trying to like show who seymour is they go into the details they even at the end i bring his wife into it like they don't mention her full name but like you know when he gets emotional you can see he is humanized i think that this film does show a lot of cover-ups it would i would like it to be more right i like it but then i have to remember that this is seymour's uh uh eyes right we're looking through how his lens is i'm gonna give it a swim i actually enjoyed it i think other people would enjoy it i think it's something that you could get into and anything that's going to get you on to these trails of like some normie just watching goes uh what's chaos uh what's mk ultra uh what's it like anything that would nudge you and i think this could nudge you in the right

direction i give this isn't a swim too it literally happened to me this just happened to be a documentary that like popped up i was working on something i was like i'll throw something off on like the side just to have some background noise and once uh they started talking about my life wasn't just one massacre did you know that not only was it not the only massacre in the vietnam war it wasn't the only massacre that morning in that area and i was like okay let me start paying attention to this and it legitimately ended up capturing my attention and i love that he was involved in the um the family jewels that was the report about all the different things the cia was into that was part of the the church commission hearings this is where you get the the ice heart attack gun the mk ultra the ewan cameron psychic driving stuff all that essentially came out of this but i think that the documentary doesn't focus on that um the same way it doesn't focus on mockingbird because hirsch wasn't really directly involved with the aftermath of all that Although now that you mention it, I mean, it's not impossible that Seymour Hersh could have been tangled up in Mockingbird. There's no evidence to that. We haven't looked up in anything, but the whole premise of Mockingbird was that you would just influence real reporters in certain ways. And I mean, in hell, if he said that he's been getting inside tips from CIA agents for four plus decades, there's a good chance that one of those CIA agents was somewhat tangential to Mockingbird. So therefore, you know, this is all speculation, but it's not even close to out of the realm of possibility. This actually feels more possible than impossible that Seymour Hersh would have been contacted by a Mockingbird specific CIA agent.

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to hit the pavement if they get emotional hate maybe your language a game how they playing it well without lakers evade them whatever the cost they are the shapeshift snakes get decapitated that is the apex execution of flame you out nuclear bomb distributed at war rather gruesome for eyes to see max them out then i light my trees blow it off in the face you're despising me for what though calculated and rather cutthroat paranoid american must be all the blood smoke for are you having difficulty getting in with your primary care and find yourself sitting in a

wedding room for an hour or two before you're finally seen and then when you finally do get in you may be seen for only five to seven minutes and believe it or not it's not even your provider's fault it's big insurance they're trying to keep and make as much money as possible i'm ashley pollard of the ashley clinic and i saw a need for a new way to deliver primary care it's called direct primary care where you can have a same day appointment and plenty of time with your provider

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