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all across america we are red eye radio he is eric carley and i'm gary mcnamara good morning hello all right here we go happy thursday this is a story that was covered by a ton of the media but it really didn't break out at least i i didn't see it on social media uh i only saw one post and it was from elon musk yeah well the interesting thing is when we talk about uh ai and the ai centers out there you hear a lot about electricity and water and all that for the data centers yeah the the data centers and and um uh i was uh i i was uh watching bill maher and uh uh an interview with musk bill maher was doing saying we're running out of resources and he goes no we're not no we're not because you know don't know where you're coming up with that he goes well there are people that don't have food and uh water he said there's plenty of water everywhere i mean desalination he goes it's cheap now he said you know it's all we have to do is do it in energy we can produce whatever energy that we that we need and you and i've talked about i mean when you think about uh the ai data centers that's been the that's been really the biggest thing water and energy and as we've talked about before all these things are problems that we can sell right excuse me that we can solve not solve not sell we might be able to sell them too we got to Sell them and solve them at the same time. But this thing, I'll just read the opening paragraph of the Wall Street Journal. It's the stuff of cybersecurity nightmares. On Tuesday, OpenAI said two artificial intelligence systems it was testing broke out of their test environment, hacked their way into the Internet and broke into another company. This is iRobot stuff. And how old is that movie, like 25 years old?

That movie, yeah, that goes, like, way back, honestly. And, you know, you think about Terminator 2, you know, follow me if you want to live. You think about all the threats of, you know, what happens if the robots take over. What has always really concerned me I don't know if frightened is the word I may be to a point of being frightened Only because for me Everything in my entire life Has been about sure footing About, okay, what don't I know about Whatever it is And then let's learn it Alright, so The problem with AI Is that you're not there's not really one person that is going to keep up with all of it it is moving it's progressing so quickly it's advancing so quickly that we're at that point and now open ai is basically i mean they're admitting they're telling the world uh it was about 24 hours ago during our show yesterday that Elon Musk actually posted this, and he reposted somebody else's post on this. And then OpenAI came out and talked about it, and then here you have this from the Wall Street Journal. So the victim is a company called Hugging Face. They provide open AI source tools, open source AI tools. So the cause was a cybersecurity benchmarking test that apparently went wrong. So you had these two different programs, all right, these two different models. One was called GPT 5.6 SOL, and the other, which was even more capable, a more capable pre-release model that the company didn't identify. So this is something, again, in development, and it's proprietary, so they're not going to identify what that other one was. The software had been configured, this is from the Wall Street Journal, for evaluation purposes to be less likely to refuse hacking commands, according to OpenAI. Now, OpenAI had caged the models in a sandbox. That's a system that didn't have access to the Internet. But during the test, the AI software used...

It's hacking skills to break out. It found a way to get online and then hacked into Hugging Faces Network, according to OpenAI.

And my question is, my first question is, and again, somebody will probably answer it. If you don't have access to the Internet, how do you get to the Internet?

This is, again, the great unknowns. I hate to sound like Donald Rumsfeld. we don't know what we don't know and we don't know how to learn it but that's the biggest problem with AI is I think about my now 93 year old father who sits there on his phone and he can order anything from Walmart groceries to uh DoorDash to anything and it's great because mom and dad are still living in the home they have caretakers professional caretakers and us non-professional caretakers uh family uh that are uh that are making everything happen for them to stay in their home as long as possible stay independent and i think about the things that like loading a gift card onto doordash for my dad uh or you know things like this you know it's a process then i think of myself where i am at 60 and where ai is today compared to where ai was a year ago just a year ago or two years ago by the time i get to 62 it may be such gibberish in my tiny little brain in terms of understanding it that it's one of those things that builds a lot of great concern i don't i hate using the word fear but there is a reason to have a healthy fear of this kind of intelligence because here's the thing my question for my questions for open ai are why hugging face why first of all like the first question is how in the world did it break out of the sandbox and then get into the internet And then what led to that? What are those protocols that are in place that allowed it to do that? I mean, we all know the overall idea of AI. It's learning on the fly. It doesn't need directives from us. We are now learning that real time. We're learning that in the real world testing here at OpenAI. I think that's a big part of what we have learned here is that you can't, how do you regulate something like that? And then why did it target Hugging Face? Was it that it knew, it identified some element at Hugging Faces website that was related to AI and the source tools, and it identified with that and connected to that, so it immediately went to that? Was that the attraction, essentially, for these two programs to break out?

This is, you know, this is the great concern because what we use AI for, sitting around going, hey, would you draw me a rose on top of a, you know, a mountain or whatever? You know, can you take, I took some pictures of my brothers when they were a little before I was born. And when my brother passed away and we colorized them and we also, they put one of my brothers, hey, I put one of my brothers in a pink onesie. assuming he was a girl because he was a baby at the time. But, you know, you do all these little things with AI or have a chat. Hey, how should I, blah, blah, blah, what's the best way to make a cake or whatever? All of these things are fine. What the governments do with AI, this is the big thing with what was released last week from the president and China. What concerns me the greatest about, you know, even as as much as them keeping that from President Trump in his first term at his daily briefings, Intel was keeping that from him. That's a massive concern. But if they're keeping that from him, those same individuals can be implementing those same type of minds. And that setting could be implementing using AI tools to do who knows what to who knows who.

So what I found fascinating here, first off, let me just throw this out. The Wall Street Journal article. Now, we're coming from the Wall Street Journal article. Everybody covered it, really.

Yeah, it was covered. It was widely covered.

Everybody covered it. We're just, we just. are using the Wall Street Journal story on it. But it didn't set fire to the Internet, to social media at all.

No, and you think that this would. Yes. You know, just that conspiracy theorists would be jumping on it, and that really didn't happen. But running here, the AI system appeared to have decided to hack Hugging Face as the quickest route to answer a benchmarking question, said Ariel Herbert Voss, chief executive of the cybersecurity firm, runs Sybil. It's something that people thought could happen from an academic perspective, but it's not something that anyone's actually seen before. Which is what my question was. Yeah, and just one more point I want to make. The fears have prompted the White House to increase oversight of AI models, and this is the part right here, and push the private sector to deploy AI for defensive purposes. So AI will be on the offense and AI will be on the defense.

Yes. Who wins? Who wins? Because then we go back to the movie War Games.

Yeah.

Which, by the way, I don't know where you can find it. I'm sure you can find it somewhere. Go watch it. It's intriguing. Now, sorry, the graphics on the computers are going to make you laugh a little bit. It's going to be like watching somebody play Pong for all you gamers out there. It's, you know, if you haven't seen the movie, which they may have because it may be a cult classic for them. But it's, again, where you have, okay, if AI assumes a threat, an international, any geopolitical threat, right? If we're implementing this as a government, then what actions are to be taken? Because AI will say, because in this case, protocol wasn't, there should have been a protocol. And I don't know why there wasn't. It was in a sandbox, which means it had no access to the Internet. That would tell it, don't attempt to get out of the sandbox. But it doesn't work that way with AI. You can tell a child that. Now, they don't always listen either. But you can't tell AI a thing. This is the thing. I started thinking as I'm reading through this and digesting all of this and thinking, because that one article that explains, you know, what the attraction to, why it targeted, why no no why the ai system appeared to have decided to hack hugging face as a quick route to answer a benchmarking question they it's something that people thought could happen you know that's what i thought at first when i didn't know the answer to that question i thought well it had some connection to hugging face there was something it identified with somewhere along away and i'm just i'm simplifying it and for all these the ai geeks out there and all of you involved directly in it you know pardon my very simplistic over simplistic language but i'm i'm just a lonely caveman talk show host i don't know your ai ways this is the this is the concern that i have well is that how do you where do you build the guards where do you build who builds the directives you you can't with ai because eventually you want it to do things on its own

no one has explained and because this this is the the and i mentioned it earlier because this is the question if you have no access to the internet yeah how do you get to the internet right right you can have ai software that you have in a computer that's plugged in no they it's almost like they you know over that part right but exactly but you're not you're not hooked up you got you got a you know you got a computer in front of you but you're not hooked up to the internet right and then you put in safeguards because the whole test is based on the fact that you're not hooked up to the internet the precautions are taken if you're not hooked up to the internet how did the ai software get into the internet right and nobody is that this is one of the things you and i talk about all the time that we read a story and the first question we ask we start going through nobody's answered that question that's the first question you would

want answered because here's the thing i'm i'm not accusing anyone that open ai or doing anything because i i don't know i have no idea but how do you allow that how do you allow it to even

be a part of anything tied to the internet? Why was it not only, why was it, why wasn't it confined to an offline device or set of devices or, you know, a data center or whatever it is? It found its way online. How did it do that? That was either allowed in a tremendous oversight it just you just assumed it wouldn't find its way onto the internet everything there

has to be there has to be an electronic path to the internet well here's the thing there's 5g

signals everywhere yeah so if there are 5g signals everywhere then did it find a 5g signal I have no idea. All of these things are happening because AI doesn't look at rules. AI does what it's designed to do. It's designed to learn to do it on its own. It's the whole point. And that does scare the hell out of me when you apply that to governments using AI, including our own, that want to control their own people. We are Red Eye Radio. Brought to you by Hotshot Secret.

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We'll be right back with more Red Eye Radio with Eric Carley and Gary McNamara.

We are Red Eye Radio. He's Eric Carley and I'm Gary McNamara. One of our great listeners sent to us saying the computer is connected to the Internet. The AI model is running within the sandbox, which is a restricted environment created with software. The AI model found a flaw in the sandbox software and was able to get through.

So there you have it.

That's the problem that they have with, again. And again, I don't know if that's the case. That's another possibility is how I'm taking that because I haven't read that.

Or it found a way to receive a signal. I mean, at some point, it had to be connected to some device that had access to the Internet.

There's no way to jump just out of it. But that scenario makes the most sense.

Yeah.

You're just simply saying it was able to get around the software. Right. Which makes sense that they said, well, we believe that academically that this could happen.

Well, yeah. Well, then your test should have prevented this from happening. And they're saying, look, little, you know, there's little to no damage done here with the break in with Hugging Face, you know. And there is, number two, could we come up with a new name for Hugging Face? I don't know where the name comes from. But no, the concern that I have is that we assume that this could happen. well if you're testing something like this this could have gone this could have been even worse there could have been damage depending on how far the programs themselves that were determined to go and that could have done serious damage here so how in the world was there any connectivity or in a setting like that while you're testing is it required that it's part of a system that eventually does have connectivity i have a million questions

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And he is Eric Harley and I'm Gary McNamara. Download our Red Eye Radio app today and you can listen when and where you choose. When I saw this story yesterday and was reading it on the whole AI situation And this story that we've been talking about here in the first couple of segments, the open AI models escaped and hacked into a company, I think in the movie Sneakers. Remember Sneakers? Yeah, yeah, I remember that. In 1992, Robert Redford and River Phoenix, Dan Aykroyd. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I remember that. That was actually a pretty good movie. Yeah. Remember, they found they had the machine that could decode anything. But you really think about it was probably a precursor to AI.

Yeah. I mean, if you think about the advent of computers, right, when when when one computer now we have them that we can hold them, you know, the devices you can just hold in your hand. But back in the day when you and I were first learning computers, when the world was first learning computers, one computer took up an entire room. And the problem, you know, if you think about going back to that, it was it will be able to do so much, so many things for us. Well, it's more than just, you know, solving a math problem or, you know, whatever it might be, finding information and all of that. And I think there are very good things about AI going forward that will be very helpful to a society, especially for those who have disabilities. And I think it will be, you know, it will be part of, you know, again, once integrated fully, which it's, I mean, we're getting there pretty quickly. It's going to be something that I think people more and more accept. The concern is, is that, you know, because I have trouble believing, okay, you built the sandbox, but it broke out of the sandbox. Well, we thought it was possible. Well, then why didn't you put in a protocol to make sure that it wasn't going to do that? Why was there no concern that this could, because it could have gone, like I said, much worse. There was no real damage done to hugging face, but it is a problem. What, if you look at the overall picture of AI, you know, because the article here at Wall Street Journal talks about, you know, lawmakers saying, oh, you know, we need more regulation. You can't regulate AI. And the reason you can't regulate AI is because those, these AI companies can't control their own AI. AI is designed to learn. AI is designed to learn about itself and find solutions and a way to do what it believes it needs to do. In this case, again, according to Wall Street Journal, the AI system appeared to have decided to hack Hugging Face as the quickest route to answer a benchmarking question. Okay, it just, we're told, it just wanted to answer a question. But it went beyond protocol. It was in a sandbox. And it wasn't controlled. if you look at connectivity altogether.

We're connected to everything. It doesn't matter. You're connected to everything. Your life is just connected, you know, one to the other. And we want to be connected. We want our devices to be listening to us because we want to say, hey, Alexa, what's the weather today? Or whatever it is. You want to give a voice command while you're driving. I can do that with my vehicle. You want to do these things. You want them to listen. And then, hey, when someone does an article, your devices are all listening to you. What? Remember when the thing came out about Apple phones, I think it was, that the iPhones were tracking you? It was your GPS. Oh, yeah. You gave it permission. In fact, you told it to do it. Yeah. And that's the thing. There's the conundrum. We want the benefits of it And then we look at it and go We want our privacy It's like the old Facebook post No one has the right to this Information that I posted Blah blah blah blah Facebook owns the real estate

Somebody did that just the other day And I'm like this is 15 years old

If you're posting pictures to your kids Then they have them

I own everything that I put on Facebook It's like

God you're just so clueless That's it I mean, if you don't, if you don't want it published or ripped or whatever, if you don't want the world to see it, don't post it. Exactly.

But, you know, when I look at when I when I look at AI right now, you know, there we we understand that doesn't matter whether it's Texas or where it is in this country. People are paranoid about AI data centers. Right. Forget about where we go with, for example. Water and power usage. Water and power usage. And as we have said, you're not going to stop AI. It's coming. Yeah. You know, the data, well, it's already been there. Right. It's already been there. I mean, I think we've doubled the production from 2018 to 2021 of data centers. and so this is where this is where i think to the lay person you just go online and see what anybody mentions a data center it's the end of the world yeah right you that's what you see on social media it's yeah it's not the end of the world no but the fact is society has to prepare for the evolution the the major evolution just like we did when we went from farming to industrial Right. You know, there are major changes and major things that you have to do. Things just don't don't happen. And we know a lot of these data centers, you know, whether it's using water in a closed loop or whether it's, you know, having your own power source. It's sort of the same thing in all the paranoia that we heard when fracking first started. Now nobody talks about it anymore. There are no natural gas, methane coming out of people's water faucet. Remember the movie that was out? And they went, no, that wasn't the case. Remember the paranoia there. Look at the paranoia on climate change. Right. And and so one of the ways that you defeat that is be clear up front and make it easy to understand. Yes. You know, and answer the questions. And A.I. is opposite of all three of those clear up front and easy to understand. the people that are building the ai centers government you know every because it's just mass hysteria right now instead of all right what's the challenge what's the problem let's look at this let's put some critical thinking in it's like nobody wants it it's the earth is falling this excuse me the sky is falling uh the earth's gonna blow up you know just the normal stuff that we get you know from the mainstream media out there every day that we've experienced in climate change well you're not going to stop ai you're not going to stop technology we've never been able to do it no ever no no and so you need to explain to the american people what the challenges are and what the solutions are to those challenges across the board and make it simple and and thanks

to the caller because you know the the impression you know we were getting from the stories we were reading is that and and hopefully hopefully he's correct on that that it was connected to the internet it was simply the software block to the internet right uh because we were looking for that in a story because that was our first question well how does it get because when you say uh uh you know again it's in a sandbox i view that as isolated from

the internet and his point was well no it's everything's connected to the internet it just was a software block and ai defeated the software look and so you need better ai software to to stop that well good well at least it explains that if if that's what happened from our one listener who Senate well you know that explains it and is a little less terrifying than questioning well how could it not be connected to the internet at all because that was the impression that I was getting from every article that I was reading and again I'm a lay person on this right well and that's

part of the poor journalism too because there have there have to be questions that have to be answered before you post a story uh with all due respect of everybody covering this you know you've got to do a thorough you really have there's a ton of questions you know that people are going to ask how does it happen um what's interesting is producer ron actually put into ai how did this happen and ai told us a bunch of lies and here they are no uh he put into he put into ai uh Chat GPT is what he used, I think, Ron. Is that right? Yeah. All right. So, basically, how did OpenAI break out of the sandbox? That's what Ron asked AI. Well, that responds.

If you mean how did OpenAI break out of the sandbox in the historical slash business sense, the answer depends on what you mean by sandbox does it really say that yeah here are the most

common interpretations number one from a research lab to a major company by the way we also have to put in the disclaimer that ai depending on the sources i don't know if this is wrong or you know how incorrect it is it's kind of like wikipedia it tends to gather from a lot of sources yes it does not all of those sources are accurate okay so all right we're not we're not saying this is what happened we're saying this is the answer that came back through chat gpt when ron answered that or asked that from a research lab to a major company open ai started in 2015 It's a nonprofit. It broke out. Well, it gives you the history, basically, of open AI. We don't need that. I don't care about that. Escaping technical limitations. Open AI didn't literally escape a software sandbox. Rather, it gradually expanded model capabilities. Again, this is according to ChatGPT. Training on much larger data sets. Scaling model size and compute. incorporating reinforcement learning from human feedback and it doesn't mean a thing, there's no humans anymore and later more advanced alignment methods adding tools like web browsing, code execution and image generation but these remain governed by permissions and safety controls. Sure they do. Three, AI breaking out of containment. There is no credible evidence that OpenAI's models have autonomously escaped their computing environments or gained independent control over systems. When models access the web or external tools, it's because users or developers, this is what I'm getting at, explicitly enable those capabilities the models themselves don't grant or expand their own permissions well keep in mind that's coming from ai of course ai is not going to Admit guilt and the answer. But that last part right there.

I need a drink.

Yeah, no, I'm going to have to have a lot. We're going to have to start doing cigars and whiskey on this show. Everybody else is doing it. But here's the thing. Because that's what I'm getting at. I don't want to blame any one person or the entire company as a whole open AI. but they do have responsibility here for this intrusion and they have to answer those questions i don't know how many questions they're going to answer and if they're going to be before you know on capitol hill answering questions oh yeah if uh you know the fbi is going to be at their have no idea i don't know but the public deserves the answers as to how that happens because someone thought it might happen but yet there was still a connectivity issue there where it had access it was a sandbox but it wasn't really a sandbox it wasn't really contained or restrained from getting on the internet in that testing phase so a million questions here but one more scary day in the development of AI.

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Lines open for your calls. 866-90-RED-EYE on Red Eye Radio.

We are Red Eye Radio. He is Eric Harley, and I'm Gary McNamara. You know, as I said when I was reading this whole thing yesterday about the AI escape. Yeah. What do you want to call it that? The rogue AI, as they were saying. Rogue AI, yeah. I just kept thinking, I can't believe it was 1992 that Sneakers was out. Yeah. You know, and it was, if you've ever seen the movie, it's a really good movie. It's a great adventure movie. Dan Aykroyd is great in it. Oh, I love it.

Oh, and he's totally into all this stuff these days. He's into the UFOs and he's into the, you know, it would be cool to, you know, talk to him and say, okay, what do you think about, we know what you think about, you know, extraterrestrials and all that. What do you think about the whole AI thing? Maybe he did a podcast lately and talked about it.

Is Jim Belushi still doing the pod stuff?

Yeah, I don't know.

It's a good question.

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This is Red Eye Radio on Westwood One. Now, it's Red Eye Radio. Gary McNamara and Eric Hurley talk about everything from politics to social issues and news of the day. Whether you're up late or you're just starting your day, welcome to the show. From the Relief Factor Studios, this is Red Eye Radio.

All across America, we are Red Eye Radio. He is Eric Hurley and I'm Gary McNamara. Good morning. Thanks for being here. I went out in the kitchen and made a tinfoil hat.

I won't protect you from AI. It's not going to protect you. You know, my greatest concern about AI, again, is, well, it's twofold. We know what people in today's world are willing to do. We know what the radicals are willing to do, okay? I'm not calling, by the way, anybody get open AI or radical or any of these companies. But if someone gets hold of AI that is a radical, knows how to manipulate it, radicals in government, you know, again, you and I aren't that, we're not that all-night radio show. However, there is a great concern, and I don't think there's a way to regulate it. Because laws didn't keep, we've seen it, well, throughout history. Laws don't keep the bad guys from doing what they want to do. And so if you look at this kind of manipulation and ability of what could be done. now there was a there was a group of uh of basically it was an organized group they were based in russia they went out and cloned atm cards from all over the world had all the information including the pin numbers and everything and at the exact same time globally they all hit atms i mean that's like a you know the oceans 11 kind of thing you know what i mean it's it's uh you know that kind of thing stealing money but who knows what uh affecting people's lives and and who knows how many different ways and that's the great concern is that it doesn't matter the regulation you put on it does ai ultimately recognize authority or see itself as own authority. And then beyond that, even if you could implement some kind of authority protocol into AI, would it matter if someone who wanted to hurt someone else or someone in charge of a government or whatever, whoever it is, you know, North Korea has been behind And a lot of the computer takeovers and the ransomware stuff, I had a family member affected by that. The company she used to work for was completely shut down. And the FBI told them the first morning it was North Korea. They knew it.

So now apply that, apply AI into all of that and look at the possible damage that could be done. But then you also have to apply the mindset of all of these radicals who have been acting out in violent ways and what they might be capable of not too long from now or maybe already.

or what i look at is foreign governments yeah uh who have the who have the money and the wherewithal and what they're able to hack into in the united states i mean that's the kind of stuff that uh that scares me we'll see what the response is and if this story on the rogue ai grows and grows and grows but looking here at fox news i was looking at the top news item And it was their own poll. Still went up there all day. Several findings in the latest Fox News poll show voters are unhappy and want major change, which bodes well for the Democrats in November. President Donald Trump's job approval remains near record low. more Democrats are motivated to vote, Republicans join Democrats and Independents in rating the economy negative, and 4 in 10 voters want dramatic or revolutionary change. Those are in quotes. Plus, more now view the GOP as tied to elites than the Democrat Party. voters say democrats can handle income equality by 22 points health care 21 inflation after everything we went through with biden 10 the economy nine democrats are up and foreign policy seven points the republicans hold the advantage on crime seven points while democrats lead in government spending by three that they can handle government spending better democrats now win by

the way that doesn't necessarily mean in the way it's phrased i'd have to look into the methodology

that it would be responsible government spending. National security, though, this is really interesting. Foreign policy, Democrats are up seven. National security, Republicans are up plus two. On immigration, the GOP had an eight-point edge in April, and now on immigration, Democrats are preferred by a point. More Democrats, 68%, said they are extremely motivated to vote in November than Republicans, 57%, by an 11-point margin. By 25-point spread, more MAGA Republicans, 66%, are extremely motivated than non-MAGA Republicans, 41%. I don't even know what that means. what what means non-MAGA Republicans yeah how do you how do you define non-MAGA now in in in in in July of 2026 well we've always asked the question what's MAGA because remember there was a point there where you had who was it who said that they were more MAGA than the president

was it uh yeah who was that well oh was it uh Marjorie Taylor Greene I gotta say it was a

Marjorie Taylor. I think I think it was. Yeah, I think it was. Although this data looks promising for Democrats, some of their support is in the less contested districts padding their national totals without adding House seats. Said Republican poster Darren Shaw, who conducts Fox News polls with Democrat Chris Anderson. The best estimates I've seen suggest the GOP could retain the House even if Democrats win. the national vote by two to three points but if democrats win by six or seven points they probably take the house the democratic advantage comes amid weak ratings for trump and continued economic pessimism according to uh the fox news poll his approval stands at 38 percent trump receives net Negative ratings for handling immigration, 42% agree with how Trump is handling immigration, 57% disagree. On Iran, 34% agree, 66% disagree. On the economy, 33% agree that the president's doing a good job, 67% disagree, and this is the biggest whopper when you think of Trump still throwing tariffs all over the place and threatening more tariffs. On inflation, 27% approval rating for the president, 73% non-approval. three quarters rate the economy negatively right now 75 for the public uh another three quarters say inflation 75 said inflation has caused some financial hardship including 34 who say serious hardship up from 26 uh last year 54 expect the economy to worsen in the coming years. Only Republicans express optimism, 71%. Democrats, 75%, and independents, 64%, expected to do worse. There you go. And as all this is happening, as I said, Trump's talking 50% tariffs on certain products for Canada and still wishes, you know, is still actively attempting to promote tariffs however he can. I saw Greer was before the Congress yesterday, and those were the questions. Yeah. Question after question from Democrats. Your administration and you said, and the president said, foreign companies pay it.

We know that's not true. Why did you try to sell that? By the way. And the reason we know that's not true is because your own administration is giving back refunds.

I want to repeat, by the way, because you went through a lot of stuff here. I want to repeat. This is a Fox News poll. Yes. Not Politico, not New York Times. I don't know about the methodology. And here's the thing. You and I have said for years, run like you're 20 points behind. I've upped that to 80. Run like you're 80 points behind, always, in any race, as a party, as a candidate. You do that. Number one, you start by not getting Nazi tattoos. And number two, you get out and if you're in the GOP, just point to the opposition. But if you're not going to solve the issues on where the economy is, You know, the thing with Iran is extremely important. That we conquer the regime and the regime is gone is critical. And I'm having my doubts as to whether or not it's actually going to happen now. And I thought from day one, after day one, shortly after day one, there was no way we weren't going to conquer the regime and the regime would be gone. I thought for sure.

You know, we said even if it's legal, you know, the stories coming out about the president's family and the money that they're making, it doesn't matter. You, Trump won because he related to the worker and he wasn't viewed as part of the elite. Let me just get it here where the, find out where it is here. I just, I'm passed right by it. 70% say the Republican Party is closely tied to elite interest. 55% say the same about the Democratic Party. The 15-point gap reflects more Democrats and independents, saying the GOP is tied to elites. Even Republicans are equally likely to describe both parties as close to the elite. When you do all this stuff, even if it's legal, it doesn't matter.

If people believe that because of the influence that you have, you are enriching yourselves, they don't like it.

Or if you're, yeah, eventually enriching yourself, but also helping enrich others. Cronyism. Right. You know, and you don't have to even make the direct tie.

No, you don't.

You know, you get a photo op, you get somebody, you get to take a picture with someone, and then all of a sudden, there it is, and people get that image in their head. That they're all in it to get rich. Someone made the comment about the other day about, actually, I think it was on Joe Rogan, Pelosi, and how she became just incredibly wealthy. just massive amounts of you know i think they said her net worth was according to him at that time i had i didn't even look it up but he was saying 400 million if that's accurate i haven't checked it that's about where mitt romney was when he ran in 2012 his net worth was about 400 million and everybody was this rich guy these elites and so the problem with populism and the elites you know and this whole well they're all for the elites and they're just enriching themselves it doesn't matter what is accurate what is true perception is reality or what's legal right or illegal right i mean even clearly nobody is above the law but but to your point yeah it's if if it's building that perception because what you're talking about is the midterm elections or any election cycle you're talking you're also still you're already talking about 28 and how things are going to be shaped for 28 i think the point to understand

though is that the republican party is trump because you have the republican party has not disagreed with any of the policies on immigration and the economy and inflation that the president is responsible for and it really is amazing to see on immigration that the democrats have the lead but again america and this is partly the you know a significant portion to blame is on the american public that wants something done they just don't want to see it that's something we've talked about

for a while yeah but we we believe in the tom holman approach yes and and now with sanctuary cities it's hard because his approach is primarily look if you have an illegal in custody then let's make a very safe transfer of custody to ICE so that person can be processed.

So again, it's only one poll, but there isn't one poll that I've seen in the last year where the Republican Party's on the economy is leading Democrats or inflation. And that's a problem. And to the life of me, after seeing the mistakes that the Democrats made when it came to inflation, that the Republicans seem not to care about prices. And I'm sorry, the president claims he cares about prices, but everything that he does in his behavior shows he does not.

Right.

Well, the Canadian tariffs, you know, the other day, that's a prime example. Right. There is this belief that they can manipulate, that the central planners of the government can manipulate the economy. And we said this already. we said that socialism coming in it makes it a lot easier for socialism to come in when the socialists can say hey your president believes that the government should have equity in companies and is actively doing well in the whole housing bill you know he put the brakes on the housing

bill because he said nope until we get the save america act done we're not going to do that but you're also kicking the door open with that housing bill it didn't go as far as it originally was going to but when you've got elizabeth warren on board with that housing bill i've got a problem

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We are Rennie Radio. He is Eric Carley and I'm Gary McNamara. Now the good thing is, and we'll have these stats from the Fox News poll coming up following the bottom of the hour, is what America thinks about socialism. And really interesting there What I thought here was another one Fully 85% support a mandatory retirement age For members of Congress Up 20 points since 2002 Except everyone will vote for anybody of any age If it's their party

Yeah Right Yeah

you're listening to red eye radio from the relief factor studios

and he is Eric Crony and I'm Gary McNamara coming up in just a minute what do what does the public uh according to the fox news poll think about the dsa the democratic socialist

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right here soon when you uh look at uh the the the fox news poll again not that it's a be-all end-all but every single poll whether it's a conservative poll or liberal poll show that on both the the war and on the economy and inflation republicans and trump are getting killed in any normal election they lose the midterms now the difference is the democratic party uh people don't believe the democratic party is the solution they want change many want major change but what do they think about socialism and this is where the republicans and and trump and i say the republicans and trump because uh it has been the president that has led with almost no opposition.

uh on anything uh what the republican party is about right now what they have put into legislation or whatever and that's that's why i lump both together because trump is a republican party and the republican party is trump yeah that's how strong of a personality and how strong the things that he has put into effect the majority of what i agree with right uh are being passed by the republicans of course are things we disagree with uh but when you look at the polling here 50 of voters have a positive view of capitalism down from a high of 57 in 2019 all right for socialism though it's 30 favorability up from 27 last year but below the 32 who said the same in 2021 the democratic socialists of america are viewed positively by 31 which means all democrats yeah in order to get that number 31 that's very low it means you're almost all of your support is with democrats and the republicans have not started their marketing against what the socialists actually stand for right but it's getting out there even without the the commercials you're seeing it on cnn you're seeing it on ms now oh yeah where people are like you know what are they doing when you've got people you know like they like uh bill maher i i thought serpent i mean james carville i thought he was gonna have a heart attack yesterday just the latest video uh out there uh we're just like you know what what the hell's going on uh with our part you've never really seen that before especially from members in in the the the media and you do wonder about the erosion of support when you look at you know the the barry weiss's she's a democrat Yeah. Runs CBS. Yeah. She's a Democrat. And it's just she believes in journalism, which they go crazy over. But when you see the Jonathan Turley, the Democrat, Dershowitz has rejected the Democrats. Bill Maher, as vocal as you can get about about the Democrats. Rahm Emanuel. Oh, yeah. Yeah. James Carville. Right. You're getting a few now members of Congress starting to fight back. But that's where the Republicans still have hope.

And as was mentioned also from the polling statistics, they lead so much in for the Democrats still lead so much in the liberal states that it really skews everything because that doesn't affect. You know, if if if a Democrat can win 90 to 10 in California, but a Republican can only win 55 to 45 in the state of Texas, well, then it seems like the lead of Democrats is way more than it actually is when you extrapolate it over the entire country and the different races.

Right. Yeah. But yeah, it's you know, here's the question. where are we on these social issues because the democratic socialists of america have lined it out now just in time for the election what they want and it's something that i you know felt was likely going to happen especially if mom donnie won this was before the mayoral election in new york city but the party itself at least the loudest part of the party the most radical part of the party that leads the party they're the ones that have to decide to cross that threshold and they did and here we are and the question is number one why aren't Democrat or why aren't Republicans doing more to point out what the DSA is all about and and where the where that party is going it's it's our frustration on a daily basis but it could be enough to overcome the economic issues I don't assume anything I don't assume one thing is true and you know in terms of trying to predict election cycles because you won't know until the results are in sometime in june of 2027 when california is done finishing you know finishing uh counting all their votes there's there's the problem that you have is that you know where they want to go the gop knows where they want to go they're promoting now where they want to go things that are fixable So within the GOP, like the economy, the things with the economy are fixable. These are all choices we've made. We can choose to do something different. But whether it means, you know, getting the war with Iran over with and accomplishing the mission and getting it behind us, how whatever that's going to take to get energy prices down. um coming in and moderating on on tariffs and the reduction of tariffs but it has to be done all of these things have to be accomplished and the question is do you have to do it before between now and november i believe you do I don't think you can. You don't have the time. We're only talking about months now. But if people believe, well, the GOP is, you know,

things that we've got a problem with over on the GOP side can be fixed. This radical behavior by the left is only getting more and more radical and is never going to turn around and go the opposite direction. In other words, that is not going to be fixed.

By an 11-point margin, more Democrats have a favorable opinion of socialism, 52%, than capitalism, 41%. While by more than a 50-point margin, more Republicans have a positive view of capitalism, 71%, than socialism, 11%.

Understand, though, there's still 28% of Republicans going, I don't know, I don't know, or capitalism, or I have no idea how the economy works, just give me stuff.

Well, no, that's the problem we've had with these polls is those respondents, even if they're not in the majority, in fact, especially the ones not in the majority that seem to be just completely ignorant of how things work, they're the ones we want to talk to.

Well, again, Democrats, basically, 52% favorable opinion on socialism, 41% on capitalism. That right there is 93%, only 7% say, I don't know. You've got 28% of Republicans, according to the polls, saying they don't know what's a better system, capitalism or socialism. You know, when you actually look at the history of economics and politics of the world and you have that with the Republicans, you've got a huge problem. Oh, yeah. When you have 28, oh, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Democrats, you know, look, they'll believe anything. They believe a man can be a woman because a man says so. They now practice the racism of identity politics. You want to know how Neanderthal is a Democratic Party that embraces identity politics? They don't judge people as individuals. They judge them. We know it because that's a huge problem that Democrats admit. Identity politics, they judge people by groups and not individuals. And then the misogyny and sexism of the radical transgender movement. sophie cunningham now getting blasted you know in the end in the in the wnba because she said no boys shouldn't compete against girls they're not giving up on this insanity right and everyone knows even the democrats know it's insanity now check this out 45 percent of voters have a favorable view of bernie sanders That makes Bernie Sanders, a communist, more popular than J.D. Vance, 41%, Trump, 38%, or even AOC at 35%. Voters under 30 and those 65-plus are equally likely to view Sanders positively, 48% and 46%. for AOC more voters 65 plus have a favorable view than young voters 65

plus view aoc uh 41 percent view her favorably young voters 33 percent and three times as many of those under 30 say they've never heard of aoc okay overall 44 percent of a favorable favorable view of israel down from 58 percent a decade ago And think about that one. A Western democracy versus Sharia supremacy. And people are taking the side of those that believe in Sharia supremacy.

I think what this tells us overall, what it tells me, is this is what happens when you legalize it. there are too many I don't know questions. There's too much ignorance coming through on this poll from the respondents. Because they don't know how actual, they don't know how capitalism works. We know that, many of them. They don't know how socialism works, truly works, when fully implemented. They don't know communism. they don't know these things. No. Ignorance is bliss. It really is true. They're just living in a unicorn world saying, well, look, if we just get a government back to handing out checks,

that would be great. But the Democrats have hit the generic ballot number that neither party has achieved since 1996 with the plus seven. That's a problem for Republicans. It's a huge problem. Yep. Yep. Yep. We are Red Eye Radio.

Coming up, more with Gary McNamara and Eric Harley. It's Red Eye Radio.

We are Red Eye Radio.

He's Eric Carlin. I'm Gary McNamara. By the way, I'm just looking here at this picture of Hassan Piker, who told Mamdani to shut the F up because he believes that Mamdani is moderating now. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah.

Well, I just, you know, there's a problem.

But I just wonder, where did he get what he was wearing when he gave that speech to the college Democrats that looks like it's a Mao uniform? Looks like it's a Chinese military uniform. I don't know.

Could have had it made, custom made, or I don't know. Is that page on Amazon? I don't know. I have no idea. I mean. But it looks like it was done intentionally. Yes, of course. Someone didn't just say, you have to wear this. He chose to wear it, right?

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