Muse

This was me, Brian Butterfield, six months ago before starting my diet plan. But just look at me now. I feel like a new man thanks to the Butterfield diet. The results have been incredible. OK, here's your weekday plan. Breakfast, one cornflake toasted with low-fat spread. Lunch, small raw potato peeled. Dinner, square of low-fat turkey breast. Baked bean in low-fat tomato sauce. Then, at the weekend, it's time for a reward. For 24 hours, you can literally eat anything. Pizzer, birthday pie, pints of cream, pork cylinders, potato grids, artificial bacon, large macs, sandwich casserole, chocolate quail's eggs, garlic pudding, fluffy ruffs, hoisin' crispy au, pasta pillows, bonbon bonbons, McFortune cookies, discount foie gras, Egg and ham slabs. Doring dinner mints. Mystery meat. Quiches Lorraine. 20 cheese omelette. The Butterfield Diet Plan. Order it exclusively online at www.fullstop. Butterfield Diet. Full stop. C-O-M. Call now.

T-B-T-L. guess what day it is guess what day it is it's friday friday gotta get down on friday

everybody's looking forward to the weekend so i'd like to get everyone's first impressions who'd like to jump in anyone how about you ramon it's just stupid okay could you elaborate ramon Stupid how? Please, be as specific as possible, Ramon.

I thought, well, this is a great, bright group of people. They're really into what they're doing. They're exciting. They're excited. They're doing cool things. They're wacky, and I fit right in.

Hello, town jubilation committee? Yeah, I got something that's going to make you a lot less jubilant.

All right, hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Friday edition of TBTL, The show that just might be too beautiful to live.

I just love hot cheetos!

My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host. Okay, guys, can we get to disc jockeying? Coming to you from the Nest Broadcast Center, perched high in the sky above Portland, Oregon, where, well, this morning, early this morning, things were looking kind of dry and decent. And I thought, okay, here's my plan. I'm going to make some coffee. I'm going to do a little work. I'm going to do TVTL. Then I'm going to go on a healthful jog. Then, of course, as soon as the show started, it was just raining. When Andrew and I dialed up earlier to get everything all set up, it just started torrentially raining. Didn't know you like to get wet, though. But now the rain has stopped and it's beautiful blue skies, so I don't know what's going to happen today, y'all. I just know that it's already been a roller coaster ride. speaking of roller coaster rides we have arrived at episode 3368 in a collector series i know for a fact that is the show number because i triple checked it today since i messed it up yesterday and we got lots to talk about let the fun begin we've had a lot to talk about all week in fact have we gotten to our top stories that we've been promoting over the course of the last three to four shows the answer sadly is not yes will we get to those stories today unclear but we're going to try including uh the story of buttergate in canada i will take your butter out of your fridge

i will eat the butter in front of you and your family's eyes many canadians complaining that

their butter when at room temperature is still not spreadable it's weirdly hard they think it might have to do with what the dairy farmers are feeding the cows although the dairy association denies it strongly. So we will try to address that story. We will definitely address the story of the movie 17 Blocks. So who needs a movie? With our friend Davey Rothbart, who you may know from this program and Found Magazine and various adventures that he and Camaro Kev and I have gone on. Davey has collaborated with a family in Washington, D.C. to make this really amazing documentary. 20 years of footage that the Samford family was collecting in their home. And it's all put together in this movie, 17 Blocks. It's really incredible. So we'll talk about that. And we'll do some music for your weekend because it's a Fri-yay. I texted happy Fri-yay to my daughter today. But then I had to...

to put in a sunglasses guy emoji in parentheses to try to telegraph to her that I don't call it Fri-Yay sincerely, that I'm being a little funny, that I'm being a little ironic. I don't know if she picked that up, or maybe I should just send her a longer text explaining that I wasn't being serious when I called it Fri-Yay. Anyway, I'll deal with that during the break. For now, we've got to welcome this guy to the show, the longest-running co-bro of the program. He may be best known for his drawings of the Tall Ships. He is getting started early on his weekend. I might be a little drunk, but no more than usual. He is Andrew Walsh, and he's joining me right now from the Roosevelt neighborhood, Seattle, Washington. Good morning, my friend.

I remember making that joke yesterday, but why does my voice sound like that? Was I saying that in a goofy voice? Or is that what I sound like? I'm not joking.

That's not what you sound like normally. I might be a little drunk, but no more than usual.

You were coming off of a laugh.

I was coming off a laugh, because it sounds like I'm doing a character there.

Uh-huh. Drunk at work guy? I might be a little drunk, but no more than usual.

Yeah, I think that's just me coming off of a laugh. I don't even hate it. It was just weird. It was disconcerting. I couldn't figure it out. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, that's okay. Actually, I'm going to play for you in a second. Do you think it's maybe I shouldn't? I did another character for Brains On this week, and it's like my best work, I would say, my best acting work, and I kind of really get into a character. It's very short. It's just like one little part. It's not like a bunch of dialogue. It might play for you, but I have an idea. Oh, good.

I bet you we have the same idea.

Well, no. I had an idea that I was thinking during the show. I'm putting the brains on thing on hold for a second. We're going to put a pin in that. We're going to circle back because I want to get your read on something. Goldfish. You forgot. That one is the worst. All right. I'm listening to today's intro. You know the montage I put together Before you start talking And I didn't realize how long it was The Butterfield intro is long And then everything after that was long And I started thinking It would be pretty funny Like almost like a prank on the listeners If one of these days it just kept going And going And going And going Like what if it's just like five minutes And people are just like what is going on And then I thought well maybe I don't do that in collaboration with Luke Maybe I prank Luke with that, too. But I feel like that's a dangerous game, as they say on The Levitard Show, because, you know, you're ready to go. Like, you're kind of primed up. Like, if I pranked you in that manner and, like, there's never the handoff for you to start talking at a certain point, I imagine you would start to get kind of annoyed. How about, like, pranking an animal? You tell me. Should I surprise you with it someday or should you and I surprise the listeners with it someday?

Well, first of all, I think it would be great if you just did an hour-long intro package, maybe with a break at around 15 minutes, and then at around 50 minutes. So the whole show was just intro tape. That would be something you and I could coordinate just as a kind of super bizarro Easter egg for the listeners.

But I don't want to like, you know, I just want this to we can't do it in the next year. I want it to be a complete surprise. I want people to forget about this conversation. And one day, of course, now we've planted the seeds like this is actually a really long con. I kind of like now the listeners for years now might be wondering, is today the day? Yes. Today the day. Is it going to keep going? Oh, there's Luke. Of course, now they might be disappointed to hear your voice, though. I don't want to set up that dynamic.

As far as the question of like, would I be annoyed? I wouldn't be annoyed at all because I love the intro tape on this show. It always makes me smile. And I'm sitting here getting ready to talk, but I'm also kind of lulling a lot of the time depending on what the particular tape is. This is no secret for the longtime listeners, but a lot of the inspiration for kind of the beginning of our show is from something that was called the Don and Mike show that was out of WJFK in D.C. their version was different but i just remember being like in my early 20s and listening to the don and mike show and being blown away at how they just used tape in this really weird way like the music the intro music was like 11 or 12 minutes long and they would just they would just talk over this music and everybody had drops and and and like so anyway it's we're heavily inspired by that although what we've done is now kind of morphed into its own thing but i could listen to I take it that had a looser feel to it.

I feel like we're probably somewhere between that and the Kevin and Bean, because you were kind of doing that when you started TBT on the radio. Then you put it aside for a long time, right? And you went to just like cold open intro, then music, and then you talk. And then I joined the show and started listening to the Kevin and Bean show and being like, hey.

we bring that other thing back i feel like what we do now is maybe between the two maybe so i mean

honestly i can't even remember the full story on what the way the audio has worked when in the history of this show if you ask me right now i would straight up mandela affected and say no we've always started with a large chunk of tape related to the butterfield diet yeah and then drops but i know it's been through a bunch of different oh yeah for sure when i started and

you were doing it mostly totally by yourself there was no montages the montages were long In fact, I still have the email that when I made one, I'm like, hey, I was listening to the Kevin and Bean show and I just had an idea. How would you I don't even think I was on the show then, Luke, I think I was I was producing the weekend show. And I said, would you have any interest in using this package that I made? And you're like, yes, anytime you make one of these, I will use it. And then I just started using making them because I was I was a huge fan. I loved working with you, but I wasn't that I was as a daily listener. And I was like, oh, this is fun. I'm participating.

um yes i i can't believe that i had forgotten about that kind of longish period where there was no maybe i played drops or something but there was no intro tape yeah i think yeah you

still did your usual kind of banter and playing the live drops but like that long montage is like drop after drop and i you hate it i liked what you were doing back in the early radio days where you were just playing them live they weren't pre-made and and you know right i didn't get

I didn't sketch them out I would just grab them And they were all like up cut And the levels were janky I liked that though It's funny that this has been my I mean I would say this has been my profession now For going on however many years it's been Twelve something years of TBTL And at no time have I had an ideal system For playing audio drop Yeah it is true It's just been There's just been different non-ideal systems Like I think we were using a news boss Or something in the early days Which was these very small Because most of the time Maybe there's a better system now But back in those days It just wasn't I don't think that most There wasn't a piece of software that was built So that you could play 50 drops And search and grab them I mean I think maybe Bean had figured something out Because he was doing it But it's just not something that most of the people on the radio need You're coming in, you're doing a news story Or you're hosting a talk show and you're playing a piece of tape from a news conference, but the weird specificity of, like, I need something where I can just grab you know, somebody saying, what the F, like, in real time, some upcut, you know, like, or what a fun, sexy time for you, or whatever, like, so it was always, it's always been some kind of workaround where we're using some system that's not really designed for it, but it's kind of, you know, kind of functional, so anyway, that's one consistent thing throughout the history of

this show and one consistent thing is uh the the meowing of my cat in the background sorry about that he's not settling down today i had to leave my door open because he's doing this thing though i told you he usually spends every um show in this chair that i've set up right next to me but that's not close enough for him now it is so cute and a little annoying he's doing this right now he's at my feet and he's just he's standing up he's old so he can't quite jump up on my lap in the position i'm at but he's just like standing and putting his two front paws on my thigh right now and he's like why won't you oh he made it he's on my lap here we go good job old man okay so um brains on uh what yes your idea for the tape do you want to hear this and will i get i was gonna

say can i can i try i was gonna try to guess what like uh animal mineral or thing you're portraying

oh that's interesting because unfortunately i literally say what i'm portraying in the very

first couple of words is it part of the line it is okay so there's no there's no like cutting around that well then so much for my i'm out of ideas show's over all right i'll tell you what

maybe let's just sit on this we have so much to get to today and i'm just telling you about my stupid cat i don't you know what i don't know your cat's not stupid let me see here do i even

have you know what oh yeah no let me just talk about more your actual alive cat that you've lived with for like almost 20 years or a robot that i've created a strong there should be bond with that i've named randy let's decide which is a less interesting topic for the listeners i'm i'm saying randy is the less interesting topic and theo talk i think is uh is very popular um okay

don't nobody snitch please nobody twitter snitch on the brains on people like because i don't want i don't know if i'm breaking the rules by playing this before it's on their show what i should do is just say i am in an episode and you should listen to it so they get the downloads and but But, you know, I don't. When's the last time Brains On promoted us, though? They've probably done it. I don't know. They'll probably get a cute kid on there, and they say, I love Hot Cheetos. Hey, Gus, help us out, dude. Oh, actually, Gus is.

We need Gus to sneak in some TBTL promo into his Brains On co-hosting.

That is actually a good idea. Gus, get on that. But I will.

say actually let me promote them a little bit more though while I'm here in the space Luke Gus is on the latest episode of Brains On this is one where I was not able to engineer that one so they went to a professional radio studio and recorded this conversation with Molly so Gus fans get on over to Brains On check out that show this one I believe is coming out soon or maybe is dropping this weekend and I don't know the theme of this show that I read these lines for but I do know that I I was supposed to play the character of an elephant who's calling into an NPR style talk show. OK, that's all I knew. And the line in was like the host of the show said something along the lines of, oh, our first callers on the line. And he is an elephant. Hi. Yes, I am an elephant. Scientists compare me to sauropod dinosaurs. You know, the big dinos with super long necks and tails. They have four legs, eat plants. Yeah, scientists think sauropods might have been brownish, like me, because even though we're not very closely related, we live similar lives. We're big vegetarians, plus bright colors make it easier for other animals to eat us, so muted shades probably suit us best. I lived the experience, Luke. What I did was I dressed up like an elephant for a year. I called into various talk shows And I really tried to understand The NPR listening elephants experience And that's how I inhabited that character

I know you were a little much on the set I heard reports from Genevieve That it was unsettling to the cats and to her That you were just kind of wandering around the apartment Throwing mud on your back to cool yourself Stamping around I think that was pretty good But you know what's interesting, Andrew? I think your talk show, long-time listener, first-time caller, Elephant, sounds a little bit like...

I might be a little drunk, but no more than usual. I was going to ask you to play that again.

Sounds like impossibly drunk, Andrew. You really have been inheriting the character. Inhabiting the character, I should say.

You got to inhabit it or leave it in the cabinet. All right, play your drop again. Yeah, just your drop. Yep, sure. I might be a little drunk, but no more than usual. Hi, yes, I am an elephant There's a lot of elephant in what I heard yesterday That's who that guy is Wow, I kind of like this Listen, we're going to take a break We're going to come back I'm going to do the rest of the show as the elephant, okay?

I'm also going to point out that Your elephant doesn't sound Not like Kyra's doll

I wasn't going for that Well, now if I say what I'm going to say

No, no. So can you play your elephant a little bit, will you?

Okay, let me get this back in here. Sorry. I close things too quickly. I delete things too fast, and I close things too quickly. Here we go. Hi. Yes, I am an elephant.

Scientists compare me to sauropod dinosaurs. Okay, now, pause it. It's an audiophile's nightmare. I think there's a little bit of that guy in there.

You know what I was going for, Luke? My character, Benny is his name. Oh, Benny the elephant I just made that up But no, what my character, what I was picturing there was an elephant But a long time NPR listener He's a guy who thinks he has the answers for everything He's the type of guy, this is the type of elephant that will go to a book reading And then afterwards when they ask for questions He doesn't really have a question But he does want to be the first person to stand up And then make a statement about how he sees this new book Fitting into the context of the other books that he's been reading lately like this is the elephant he he might have a pipe he doesn't really smoke it but it

sits on his shelf so people know he prefaces what he's about to say at the reading with more of a comment than a question exactly it's an audiophiles nightmare now and i don't know kai i feel like kai

has a little bit more of a suaveness right of course this elephant is more of a little bit more of a little bit more pompous in an old school like i'm wearing a tweed sport coat with patches

on the elbows kind of way i've been considering getting into that look it's a good look man i actually bought a tweed sport coat because it was like marked way down at the store and i haven't had any reason to wear it i may not even fit it andrew and i bought it like three months ago here in portland but um i yeah i'm you know the the the transition is happening the change is beginning and to into me being a guy who wears a tweed coat with leather patches on the arms

Mine didn't have leather patches, but I had a tweed spore coat that I just got like, you know, at a consignment shop or something years ago and many, many, many pounds ago. But I loved it. It was a great casual spore coat. It looked good. Here's the one thing, though, Luke, I do. We need to.

Make an agreement here, and I really hope you go along with this, because I'm not joking. I am very, very close to committing to buying one of those kind of golf-style clip hats that comes to a point in the front. You know, like I used to wear as a kid, like a tweed one like that. But we can't both do that. I don't think that you're— You can't wear that—we called that a Jeff cap when I was growing up. I don't think that's even the real name for it. But yeah, if you you're saying if you commit to that and I commit to the tweed sport code and then we're seen in public together, like at an event, you're just saying that would be too much. No, much sexiness for the listeners. I think that's fine. Although I could. Oh, they all are called Jeff caps. Yeah, I that doesn't bother me as much as I don't. You can't get a Jeff cap to we can't both make this decision. Like we can't. Well, I want to say this in the nicest way possible. there's a zero chance of me getting a Jeff cap. Just go to break, asshole. Can that be a new segment? Just go to break, asshole? We brought in all the kids with my brains on tape, and now I'm teaching them swear words. Is this elephant drinking again? That elephant used scary words, mama. All right. We'll take a quick break, and then we'll be back with more TBTL. Let's thank some donors of the day. These are the wonderful, generous people that make this show possible. People like Emily Mann of Tucson, Arizona. That reminds me of my favorite drop from What We Do in the Shadows. This is how we talk in Tucson, Arizona. Who is that? Who is that actor? You know him. I can't think of his name right now. Let me Google it while you think, and then I'll come back. I wonder if I should. God, the list is growing, Andrew. You'd think during a global pandemic, if there's one thing I would be doing, it would be catching up on my television. And yet I feel like I'm falling woefully And there was a period of time where they weren't making as much new television Because of the pandemic And they literally couldn't get film crews together You think that would have given me a chance to catch up And yet I feel I'm more behind than ever I haven't watched the Britney doc I haven't watched the What's that one that everyone's going nuts for In As I Am Oh, In and of Itself In and of Itself Which I know you're the Well, I want to watch it so you and I can talk about it. I still haven't finished BoJack Horseman, although maybe I've moved into a less depressed phase of my life, so maybe I don't need to vibe with BoJack. Who knows? But anyway, I just have a growing list of shows, and what we do in the shadows is on that list because it's got K-Strauss in it for no other reason.

It's got the emotional vampire played by Kenny the Yo-Yo Man. And let me tell you this, that the character you just heard is Laszlo, But Laszlo is playing another character named Jackie Daytona as he goes undercover somewhere. And the actor's name is Matt Berry. Does that name ring a bell to you? Actor Matt Berry. Is it B-E-R-R-Y? Yeah, just like the sweet treat on the vine. Okay, I'm looking at... No, I don't recognize... Maybe he's an English actor. You know what? You know who's not a donor of the day? Matt Berry. Okay, thank you, Matt, for your contribution.

Everyone in this town knows that. I just wish I understood you. You're such a mystery. You say you're from Tucson, but you talk all fancy and Europe-like. This is the way we talk in Tucson, Arizona.

That's great. It never fails, man. It makes me giggly. That's great. But you know what? We're not here to talk about British actors who say Arizona wrong. We're here to talk about Brian Lane, who is a donor of the day from Seattle, Washington. Do I know, Brian? There are so many things about that name that feel familiar to me, both the word Brian and the word Lane. And then they're from Seattle. Yeah, it does sort of ring a bell, I'm wondering. It feels like someone we've worked with, huh? Yeah. Brian, thank you for supporting this program. Tyler Namy is in Longview, Washington. What would your take on Tyler's last name be? N-E-I-M-I. Actually, I think you said it's N-I-E-M-I, right? You know that I do that a lot? I don't think I'm dyslexic, but I really switch around my I's and my E's. Yeah, because English has those weird rules, I before E, except for a bunch of exceptions. Famously, I before E, except for the other times. Right, yeah, so I think that makes a lot of sense. But I think you, would you say Nimi? I said Nimi. Could be Nimi or Niemi. Niemi Tyler thank you for the donation from down there in beautiful Longview Washington also Colin Seymour is in Seattle see I wish and this is not fair to the donors for me to say this

but I wish Colin Seymour was the listener from Longview because if you have a long view you see

more yeah you know that Longview is I believe it's the longest stretch of beach in America Doesn't that seem weird that that would be long for you watching?

Yeah.

I believe it is. Really? I believe it has some weird title where it's like the longest, you know, maybe uninterrupted beach or something. And I don't know what qualifies as an interruption. But it has a surprising kind of claim to fame in terms of its vastness, if you will. Anyway, I'm sure that listener Tyler knows all about it. He may have even mentioned a listener, Colin, who's up in Seattle. Mark Braithwaite is in Seattle as well. Thank you, Mark. And then checking in from Kirkland, Washington, home of Kirkland brand jeans, Matthew Yeager. Thank you for the donation as well, Matthew. I mean, that's the story. I mean, was Costco founded in Kirkland? Was it the original Costco? You should be telling me this, but that's my assumption. Oh, right. I forgot. I'm talking – other than a store that only sold mayonnaise, there's not a place that you – there's not a store that you visit less than Costco. It is just anathema to your lifestyle.

Well, and I didn't grow up – I meant it more because I didn't grow up around here, and it seems like it's a local institution. But, I mean, that's my understanding. Everything is called Kirkland because it's a Kirkland company, and I just always assumed that it was founded there, and it's got a lot of Pacific Northwest pride. I'm not anti Costco I just as not owning a home I don't feel like we have a lot of space to store

you know tons of extra paper towels or what have you I went to Ikea the other day Andrew and God I love that place I've had a sort of a I don't know a changing relationship with Ikea when I first found out about it and I was younger I was obsessed with it and I wanted to buy all the stuff they had in there because it seemed so much nicer than the furniture that I had which was all hand-me-down or things i had found on street corners and it was it wasn't cheap but it was you know it seemed kind of attainable you almost say it was designed that was within reach to me at that time but uh and then for a while i was kind of like uh you know me and all of my friends all of our homes were exclusively decorated and befurnitured with ikea stuff yeah so then i think i kind of like you know in my 30s and 40s i started to think i was too good for ikea so i haven't been in ikea in a long time but i uh i needed oh addy was coming down and i was um setting up this airbed for her in this very room by the way and i realized i didn't have any sheets or duvet for it so i thought ikea will have that kind of stuff and so i went in there and man it was like it was like ikea and i had been married years ago and we'd had a stormy relationship but then we so then we broke up and then we didn't see each other for 20 years and then we We're at the same, I don't know New Year's Eve party and all the feelings Were there again I was like, this place is And it helped that I haven't been in it for 20 years So everything was new and different And kind of like, oh, I haven't seen this before Oh, you look really great In that tea kettle, Ikea That I bought I went in to buy a couple of things And of course I came out $400 later With two huge One of those weird blue Plastic shopping bags

Yeah. Well, that is weird to me that you were like, I just need to get some sheets and you go to Ikea like for me. And I know that I'm not trying to do like a very tired stand up bit here. But like, I just don't think of Ikea as a place you just bop into to pick up one or two things. Like, yeah, for me, like you put that on the calendar a couple of weeks in advance. It's circled. You buckle up like you brace for the experience.

Well, I was out near the airport, which is where the IKEA is. And so I saw it. And really what it was was I'm still unfamiliar with Portland. And so I couldn't think of a place, maybe Bed Bath & Beyond, I guess Bed is in the name, but I couldn't really think of a place that I felt I knew 100% was going to have that stuff and it was going to be reasonably priced, but, you know, with a little bit of design to it. And so what I thought was, yes, I'm going to invest more time parking and walking into this IKEA, But I feel 100% confident they'll have the thing Whereas if I go somewhere else And it's You know it's less of a hassle but they don't have it Now I've lost more time than I would have I just felt like it's going to actually be efficient To go into this IKEA And it turns out it was and then I got a bunch of other stuff That has really made this place A little bit more livable I got like a proper night light For my

for the you know

Thank you.

little stand near my bed I hadn't had a nightlight I had like a giant weird room lamp in there that I was just using so and this nightlight I'm not trying to do an ad for Ikea but this nightlight was $12 you know and it's very designy and cool and I was like wow I mean somebody's going to probably email in and say there's a reason why Ikea can sell that for $12 you know who knows what their I don't know what all their business practices are I guess my point is whenever I get something whenever i buy something that seems really convenient really and really affordable i usually find out later that it's built on human misery in some way right right so this may be another example of that but i just was like i ended up getting a bunch of i got some um oven mitts i hadn't had any oven mitts so anytime i was cooking something trying to take it off the stove i had to like find a dish towel and then like triple it up so that it was creating enough space between my hand and the hot part of like the pot so just little silly stuff like that that i picked up that it's just made my life you were talking about your record player the other day and actually hooking it up yeah i've sort of had that happen on a global scale within this apartment

yeah and i understand that actually you saying like listen i i could try going to one place but then it turns out it's another bombed out bed bath and beyond and they don't have a matching set and then all right well i'll go to target but tar you know what i mean and it's cold time so like you don't want to be going a million different places and the the the flow of products has been weird so like you know what i'm just going to commit i kind of like that attitude you know what I'm going to go to a place I know they'll have it It's a little bit more of a pain to get in there And certainly it's hard to get out You can't just walk in and walk out You have to do the whole spiral thing

There's nothing worse These are two things that are eerily similar Even though they're kind of different The lack of interest I have In the ways voice So the mapping voice telling me where something is When I can already see the thing Like I go from being like This is my lifeline I will be dead without this person telling me in 1000 feet turn right on maple street to i turn the corner on maple street and i see the ikea and it says in 500 feet your destination i see the ikea shut up well i like i

well i'm uh i i mean you are so dedicated to the the voice when we're on road trips together you always have to have that voice on it's the only time i turn the voice on but that might be the privilege of having one of the cars where i plug my phone and the map shows up kind of on my dashboard and i guess if you don't have that you need the voice because to me if you don't have

the voice on and you don't have the thing you're talking about yeah then you have to look down at the phone which kind of defeats the purpose yeah and i also the technology with this mapping stuff is pretty sophisticated and yet i still don't know how far 500 feet is yeah right like it'll be like in 500 feet turn right and i'm like is that i'm looking at every single thing that happens next on the right hand side like is this it am i here and so the less i have to refer down to the phone visually the safer it is for everyone but the other thing i was going to say is the other experiences like that is ikea when you have gotten the things you want and you realize i still have to go through this habit trail yep for another 1.6 city blocks because they will not let me just cut to the wherever the checkout is i must continue to follow this uh yellow non-brick road And that also is annoying Because I'm like okay Ikea we get it I got the stuff now can I please leave And they're like nope you need to go on this journey

You must answer three questions Do you want this lamp Do you want this shelf Okay I am going to stop talking now Because we just have so much to do today We do we have a lot of content

We have to get to at least one of the stories And that is the story Of the Buttergate That is causing all kinds Of commotion in Canada Reading from an article at NPR.org written by Emma Bowman, baffled Canadians spread reports of, quote, hard butter. A number of food bloggers And other folks Particularly a cookbook author Named Julie Van Rosendahl Have noticed That their butter in Canada Seems to be Some describe it as rubbery Some describe it as hard Even at room temperature Like it's not spreadable So you leave I know Are there two words that should That don't go together more than I know that was about a triple negative Dude, are there two words that belong together less than rubbery and butter, rubber, butter, baby bumpers? That's right. That's how I warm up my voice each day before the show. Anyway, people are saying that the butter, when it when it gets to room temperature, does not is not soft and spreadable the way it should be. This is a led to looking into something called a palm oil derivative, which a lot of food scientists and other people are saying is is what the. dairy farmers are feeding their cows right now uh it's basically like palm fat that they're putting into the cow's diet so as to get the cows to produce more milk uh which eventually becomes butter because they need to up the production because there is more demand for butter in canada during the pandemic oh yeah all the all the baking yeah all the baking that's going i Remember, there's been a flour shortage. There's been lots of these different kind of staples have been running out. And so people have been home. People have been baking. People have been buying a lot of butter. And so the dairy farmers are trying to keep up with production. Here was the interesting part of this. It's not that this palm oil derivative that they're throwing in this palm lard, it's called, that they're throwing into the feed. It's not like it's cheap, but apparently it's cheaper than growing new cows. So it's like it's you know, it's an it's an investment for the dairy farmers because they're having to dump more of this expensive, semi expensive product into the feed. But it fattens the cows up or somehow ups their production, gives them more fuel to make more milk. So they're able to crank out more butter and cheese and all of that stuff. And so but you have the dairy association saying, of course, I mean, what are they going to say? They're going to say that, like, we're just putting in a normal and legal amount of this stuff. and we have not heard any substantiated reports of butter. Butter is like genre now. I have a hard time just saying it in the normal way. They're saying that this is just psychosomatic. The people are just imagining this. But there has now been a vote, I think.

Let me get to that. Citing environmental concerns related to palm oil production. I guess these would be the... How's your French, Andrew? Andrew, les producteurs. de la du quebec i believe that would be the milk producers of quebec are asking milk producers to stop using oil stop using products containing palm oil or its derivatives in the feed for their dairy cattle so i think that's the like association of dairy farmers in quebec are saying everybody stop using this palm derivative because even if we don't agree we don't concede that this is what's making rubbery butter the people think it's making rubbery butter and so we have to we have to knock it off so i guess at least in quebec they're going to stop doing it that's interesting that's kind of

like saying you haven't convinced me but fine we'll change it's taking an alfred plea essentially

is that what that's called well an alfred plea is when you don't admit that you're guilty but you admit that if you were tried you would probably be found guilty i thought that's no contest What's the difference?

Well, we shouldn't get into this. We have lawyers who listen. They don't need to hear us try to figure this out.

You know that I had the thought the other day, Andrew, the legitimate thought that I might want to go to law school? Really? I mean, because obviously my schedule is pretty open generally. Yeah, I saw the calendar in the Hey Dummies video. Yeah, boy, that is. That was stunning. Part of that is because I have nothing going on, and part of it is because I mostly do my calendar digitally now. But I was like, wow. But I was being a little sarcastic there Because even in the pandemic I tend to Most of my day is pretty full with stuff But I was thinking I'm 44 If I were to get admitted to law school And maybe I could take the slow boat Maybe I could do like a six year track Instead of a two year track I could be a full on lawyer by 50 Just gives me some options You know I just like this game Can't go on forever Yeah So well Well, it's just, I don't know, man. Do you have the personality for that? Maybe. I don't know. I don't have the personality to practice law, but I have the personality to brag to people that I'm a lawyer.

I meant you have the personality to get through law school.

I have the personality to lie and say that I got through law school because I one time did the online intake form at an online law school.

I remember that time you told a paramour that you almost bought a law school.

That was true. Well, I thought about buying a law school, and that was enough. But I really was doing the math. I was like, you know, is that weird? Has anyone ever become a lawyer at 50? Like, I don't even know if I would want to practice law. Just have that in the back of my mind, just so I could be more insufferable at parties. I love the motivation for this. It's great. Could you imagine me with an actual law degree in an argument about something? I mean, I've been known to tell people I'm a professional storyteller when there's been a disagreement about some detail of a story. I remember that. So just let's throw – I'm literally a lawyer.

Although I will say in our relationship, you and I don't – we don't debate things all that much. Like every now and then, even today. day before the show we were talking about some news stories and we're kind of like looking at them from different angles and like i always like to say taking these stories and holding them up to the light like a jewel and looking at it from all sides like chris hayes says he sometimes holds up the uh no point conversion theme song that imagery him saying that on the show has stuck with me so much i think about that all the time i hold it up to the light and spin it around like a jewel but um i you know i have some i think i mentioned this to you the other day maybe off air I don't remember. But like when I was younger, me and my friend Paul were like, we're always debating shit. You know what I mean? We agreed on things when we were all somehow we were always the other one was always taking the contrarian view. And we're always and I think that had to do with our age and thinking we're smarter for me thinking I was smarter than I was or what have you. And trying to like explore this idea of adulthood and journalism and really trying to examine the world. I don't think I'm like that that much anymore. And certainly our relationship, you and I, I don't feel it is certainly on the show. I don't feel like we get into like, I don't think things naturally take the debate course. Yeah.

I feel like in my life in general, that's just become maybe I've just become less intellectually rigorous. Me too. To the degree that I ever was. But I wonder if that's also just kind of a, I don't know, just part of the journey of life. Like when you're younger, you're still trying to figure out how you feel about things. And you're in college, maybe. And so you're very much into debating ideas. And that's just a fun activity. And then you just get kind of ossified into your beliefs. Like I think you and I just generally agree on most things, you know, political and otherwise. And so there's just not a whole lot to debate. And I don't – I mean this is bad, but it's like I'm just not that – I think the other thing that I've learned at this point in my life is that it's very rare that debating something with someone changes their mind and so it also feels just a little bit pointless like i maybe this is bad but i'm at the point where like if somebody if i'm at a party let's just you know it's pre-pandemic or whatever i'm at a barbecue and i can tell that somebody's you know takes a dim view of something that i support my impulse is not to try to like debate it with them and get them to see the light it should just change the topic because i just feel like that's not gonna we're just gonna make it weird and i'm not going to convince them that's it's a little defeatist of me but that's kind of more the way my brain

works now although you did god we're just i keep taking us off topic um but you did in a couple of like i guess famous is too strong of a word but a couple of maybe notable examples on tbtl you did tell stories of like i believe you were in hawaii one time like i think the trump administration maybe made that harder for you at times because remember the time sure weren't you in hawaii and you like were sharing a table with a couple you didn't know and you kind of kept picking at the like kind of maga-ness maybe not maga-ness but certainly trump apologist-ness of the other people at the table am i making that up i i don't remember that but that doesn't mean you're making

it up there is something where you and my brain has turned into rubber butter i remember you and

carrie were at some sort of restaurant you couldn't get a regular table so you were sharing a table maybe at a couch or something like you know sometimes does this ring any bells and like

It does a faint bell.

Yeah.

Anyway, I think I think you're right, though. I think I think you're right that the how real the threat felt to me with the Trump administration was a different because it's like a straight white male. I just have I've just never had to live in the world where I felt like the government might actually do me harm. And I don't mean that the Trump administration sought to do harm to straight white males. If anything, they sought to elevate us. But to me, it felt like a threat to my way of life, that this was a person who was allowed to be president. And that's just not an experience that I had had previously because of all my privilege. And so I think that was like maybe there were times where it was like less easy for me to just go like this is not worth it because it felt like an extant threat.

Yes. I was going to say it was just like exactly what I was going to say. It just felt like such an existential threat. So to a lot of us. So anyway, here we are.

So listen, we should get to listen, Barack the sheep. Let me sum it up by saying they found a sheep in Australia. It had, like, almost 80 pounds of wool hanging off of it because they have bred these sheep to grow wool so vigorously that if someone's not there to shear them, the wool will eventually overtake them. They have no natural way to deal with it. Barak was the sheep. They found him out in the wilderness somewhere, brought him home, shaved him, and he's doing great. And it's very adorable and cute. So if you need a pick-me-up today, just Google Barak the sheep and go check out what happened.

And also a listener said, I have not watched this video, but a listener also said like watching the sheep get sheared was very satisfying, maybe even akin to like finding a film of plastic on an old appliance and peeling it off. I always wonder if because this is something that's happened a couple of times.

There was a previous sheep in Australia.

That had the actual record. I think that sheep had like 90 pounds or so of wool on it. Exact same situation. Just like a sheep that escapes the enclosure or whatever the sort of flock is. And then it's just living in the wilderness and it's just growing the fur. This other sheep, it was just the conditions were so dire for this poor thing because it just couldn't move. Amazingly, they found it. i always wonder though when they're shearing the sheep does the sheep understand that its life is

about to get so much better or is it just like oh yeah that's the business like this right does it

feel to the sheep like it would feel to us if we had been just growing a matted tangle of of of hair and body fur and whatever else like if we had whatever the human version of that is to have that taken off and to have like get all like suds up and rinsed and then maybe just a light dusting of talcum powder just for some reason i feel like there's a powdering that needs to go on to just be like sitting in your pen after all of that weight and constriction was off of you like that would feel so good as a human as the listener pointed out i wonder what the sheep's experience

with it is well my big question here to the degree that we can get into it because i'm just going to ask a question and you're either going to know the answer or not but what happens when humans don't intervene like why are these animals why does it get to this point like why are these animals have they just been domesticated to a point where they now are reliant on human beings

like you shouldn't my guess is well no my my guess is that this is the result of a lot of selective breeding so i mean not unlike probably the way dairy cows uh tend to physically you know kind of um produce i'm sure that they do a bunch of things with cows now to try to get them to produce along with feeding them palm yeah i was going to say we're just to produce as much as much butter as possible as much milk as possible i my guess would be that these particular kind of sheep have been bred at some point these sheep did not grow for this aggressively because they were alive before humans you know came on the scene or at least started hanging out with them so we've now bred them to where they're just wool generating machines yeah and so much so i mean they're like i don't know if that was ever a real thing or if it was just a rumor but the idea of the like kentucky fried chicken that was so the chicken's breasts were so sort of developed that it literally couldn't stand yeah i don't i don't know if that was a real thing or is a real thing or if that was just like one of those weird rumors you hear as a kid but this definitely seems to be the case that these sheep i want to say they're merino but i actually don't know if that's the case maybe that's just the kind of wool i've heard of but um they i think they've just been bred into this now so you know that's i don't know i mean it's it's a bummer um hopefully it's it's pretty rare that one of them gets away and then you know is overcome by its own wool production um but uh i'm glad to know at least that barack was able to get and he looks very happy um they had him in a the other thing that's kind of funny though is they after they get these sheep and they shear them down they've always got to put them in a little coat they put a little blanket on them i think because the the wool must have been producing some amount of warmth for them that now sans the wool i do speak french uh sans the wool that's like actually too cold for them so then they usually have a cute little coat on and they look all like skinny and kind of like a little old man nice give them one of those jeffrey caps yes i was gonna make that joke but i felt like you're gonna scream at me to go to a break again you're gonna swear at you again you know Andrew, do you know who is one of the nation's leading wearers of the Jeff Cap?

Oh, my God, he is.

If you Google our friend Davey Rothbart.

Is that why it's been on my mind and I didn't even realize it? Because I've been thinking about getting one of these for a while.

If you Google Davey's name, I would say half of the pictures that come up of our friend Davey Rothbart is Davey in a Jeff Cap. So that's also going to impact your guys' friendship, Andrew. That is true. If you get one. That is an amazing tangent. And we really got there, honestly. If you start wearing a Sacramento Kings jersey with your jet cap, forget it. Now you're just completely biting Davey's look.

Absolutely.

Can you imagine me in that look? But anyway, Davey has this incredible film project that's being released. It's called 17 Blocks. and it just basically documents like 20 years in the life of this family the sanfords in washington dc and um we heard about the movie and we love davy he's been on the show before so we thought we would reach out uh so this is a conversation we actually recorded yesterday afternoon uh with our pal and noted jeff cap enthusiast davy rothbart davy welcome back to tbtl

thanks can i ask you a quick question before we start talking about your film which and i know Luke and I both have like a million things we want to talk about the film, but you fascinate me as a person. your memory of interactions with me and Luke, which happened years ago, seemed to be top of mind for you. And I know that, and I actually know you from way back in New Hampshire, and I feel like you have such a good memory. You meet so many people, you become friends with so many people, and you remember so many details. Do you have secret notes that you're referring to?

No, but, you know, I do. I mean, you guys are a couple of pretty indelible dudes, But I do have I do have kind of an eerie sense of recall, which is sometimes embarrassing because, you know, I'll see someone on the street or at a party and I'll be like, I'll be like, Charles, what's up, man? And they just look at me with this utterly blank expression. It's not it's not like, oh, I remember you, but I can't quite remember your name. It's like, who the hell are you? I've never seen you before in my life. And I'm like, we used to live together for a year.

you know i have it's it's getting worse with age but i have an exact issue davy where i will remember somebody or at least you know back before my brain was swiss cheese i would remember people who were like the friend of somebody i went to college with and i had to stop pointing that out because it really it really kind of like uh it's very off-putting actually sometimes right right

exactly i i don't know i i would uh yeah i get i get into trouble sometimes if if but but the thing is um and you also have a pretty colorful uh cast of friends yourselves so i uh it's it's pretty people i've i'm hanging out with you guys but also meeting people through you i i remember them

pretty specifically um this film is really incredible um it's called 17 blocks and how Let's just start at the beginning. How did you meet the Sanford family?

Yeah, you know, I was really in my early 20s. I'd just finished college and moved to D.C. I was staying on my friend's couch in southeast D.C., but, you know, he worked on Capitol Hill as, like, an intern or something and wanted company, so, you know, he invited me to stay rent-free on his couch, and I don't know what I was doing then, trying to write books or who knows. I ended up playing basketball every day at this court down the street and just kind of hit it off with some of the young guys there. I mean, I was, what, 22? There was a kid there who was 15 named Smurf, and a funny young guy. We'd always talk after the game was done, and his little brother, Emmanuel, was nine, always kind of watched us play through the fence and begged to join the game. And, of course, we always said no unless we really needed an extra body out there on the court. yeah i know that move and we let him play you know here and there but uh one day smurf said hey why don't you come me and back to me and emmanuel's place get some food or something and uh so i went had dinner at their house i met their mom cheryl i met their sister denise and i just had a blast they were so cool and you know i i was it was the first time for me living really far away from home i'm from michigan you know and uh i i think i was a bit lost and kind of in need of some family. And, and Cheryl, their mom likes to say that the family adopted me because it's really how it felt, you know, because I just started hanging out there pretty much

every day. And was, did anybody think that was kind of, um, unusual? Like this is a black family. You're a white guy from Michigan. Like, I mean, did, did you feel like you, you sort of fit in?

you know i mean the neighborhood where i grew up in michigan is pretty diverse um and for me it it didn't feel like you know i had other friends black friends houses i always hung out with growing up so it didn't feel that different i think i was a bit of a novelty to them because there's just not a lot of white folks in that neighborhood and um they knew me they got to me pretty well pretty quickly but sometimes a friend would come over and just like do like a double take and like uh some some of their friends were uncomfortable because they they were sure i was a cop which is kind of hilarious to me when you like i'm kind of the least cop-like person you really can imagine but but just there was no other reason that for them to usually encounter a white person there but um but that being said you know those those things dissolve pretty quickly and and uh just kind of became i guess part of the just that weird that weird white dude in the neighborhood you know um but uh you know i i just got my first video camera so i i was interested in filmmaking but i never studied it in college or anything and i had this it was like a cheap camera but it used those old hiate video cassettes and i was just teaching myself how to use it and and of course the kids smurf and emmanuel and denise like they got really interested in it so we just started filming all the time like walking around the neighborhood we'd interview people on the street or or even at the apartment i would interview them then they would flip it around and interview me and uh it was just kind of a fun activity to to get used to it but i started leaving the camera there with them because they were so into it especially emmanuel he was nine years old but he had a really poetic eye and he would just you know kind of i would watch the footage that he was shooting at yeah because i'd leave it there overnight or on weekends and and he would he would shoot out the window for like 15 minutes like a branch swaying in the breeze or like people having a conversation you couldn't even hear their voices but just the way they kind of circled each other on the street and And I was just struck by his footage and started leaving the camera there for longer and longer periods.

So there are some, you know, we should talk about how how we talk about this without spoiling the movie, which is also depicting real life. But there are some really, you know, powerful and tough scenes and shots in this, especially there's drug use. Right. Which is something that a lot of people would not be comfortable doing in front of a camera. How did you, did you have to negotiate that or was that the family filming themselves?

Yeah, well, you know, look, this has been a 20 year collaboration between me and the Stanford family. So, you know, all of us, the camera has passed around to all of us. I shot a lot of the footage, but a lot of it was shot by the family members, even when they were kids, you know, the drug use, it's pretty interesting, you know, but I'd say the overall vision for the film has really been cheryl stanford uh the mother um she she just has always had a sense for wanting to you know as she puts it you know i want to let people know what's really going on in in my neighborhood you know and and the camera was kind of a tool she felt like for people to be able to walk in her shoes and get a sense for what it's like to deal with these extreme challenges uh that that you face when you live in a neighborhood that's underserved and gets the short end of the stick. So when it comes to the drug use, she was always candid with me about her drug use and her struggles with addiction. And we talked about it on camera plenty. But one day she said to me, you know, hey, we should film me actually using drugs because I talk about it all the time, she said, but people need to see how ugly it really is. And like, you know, I said, we should film that sometime. And she said, well, let's film it right now because I'm about to use and like I just we should we should get this on tape. And so, I mean, the drug use, but really all of it, you have to give credit to this family for, you know, they really put themselves out there by by sharing themselves that they're most vulnerable. You know, some some stuff that most people would do everything in their power to hide and conceal from the world. The Sanfords have said, like, this is real life, and we want people to know what it's like to deal with these types of things, whether it's, you know, addiction, gun violence, you know, all the challenges they face. So they have been extremely courageous, I think, by putting their story out there. But I think that's why the film has that power and that rawness is, you know, you're seeing things you don't always get to see.

When did you start to think this was actually going to be a movie? and not just a kind of, you know, video project where you're just filming for the sake of it.

Totally, yeah. I mean, it really all changed, you know, 10 years into it. I moved out of D.C. eventually, but I remained close with the Sanfords, and I'd come back and hang out with them just for the holidays or whatever it was, and we would always keep filming. It was just one thing we did among many when we were together, but it was essentially home videos, I'd say, those first 10 years. And then in 2009, on New Year's Eve, one of their family members was killed in a shooting in the neighborhood. And I was there the next day just to help any way I could. And Cheryl said, where's the camera? And I was like, well, what do you mean? And she said, well, she said, you don't understand, like, this is so common in this neighborhood. So many of my friends have lost kids to gun violence. But this is different because, you know, this kid has been filmed throughout his whole life so you know it's not just going to be a statistic like it's going to be people can trace this person from when they were a child you know watch the whole you know watch them grow up watch their whole life and then understand you know that you know she said i wanted to feel to somebody could watch this and and feel like they lost their own family member to gun violence and and so she had that immediate like vision for what this film could be that was just in the days after losing a loved one to, to, to gun violence. And so I started filming and the, and the family continued, you know, Smurf and Denise and others were filming with me and, and we then continued to film for 10 more years. You know, I, I thought, you know, she, she knew that she knew the heartbreak she was going to be walking through in the weeks and months to follow. But, but, you know, she wanted to get that.

all on tape but but i didn't know that we would continue to film for years and years but eventually you know smurf denise their all their kids got to be the age that they had been when i first met them in 99 and then it really felt like okay this thing has come full circle like 20 years later you know let's edit this together into a film um and uh yeah it took a couple years to piece

it together from there how much footage do you think you had at least a thousand hours you know

I mean, spanning 20 years, some, some years there might be five hours of footage, other years there could be 50, you know, or a hundred. And, and not all of it's movie, movie worthy. You know, well, since a lot of the film was shot by like a nine year old, a 12 year old, a 15 year old, you know, but, but that being said, Jen, Jennifer Teixeira, the amazing editor I worked with, you know, we were, we, we watched every minute of the footage. there was stuff that i hadn't even seen before stuff that i had shot but just never looked at or stuff that um that that the kids had shot and uh that i had never even seen and and you know eventually we were able to kind of find the story the family you know really helped sort through the footage with us in terms of talking about like what are the important storylines here what you know what what are the stories we most want to tell and and one of the challenges was like I mean there's first of all there's so many other there's people that you glimpse like Smurf's friend Anthony um and uh Cheryl's boyfriend Joe who have their own 20-year trajectory stories you know that that we have some footage of and you know that are interesting in their own right but you know we kind of just kept um focusing more and more the more intimate we could focus on just the immediate family um the more it seemed to work and like likewise Cheryl has had a lot of friends who have lost loved ones to gun violence. And we had a lot of great moments with her having these powerful conversations with these folks, but it still felt like it was pulling you away from the family itself. And that being said, we still wanted to kind of find a way to acknowledge and underline the vast scope of this issue and the fact that this is just an insanely common occurrence in neighborhoods.

You know what drove that point home to me, oddly, was the t-shirt shop where their main business is making shirts in honor of people who have

died presumably to gun violence i mean look like no i get choked up thinking about this because i you know like no there should not be a t-shirt shop that flourishes um because they're able there's so much you know so many killings in the neighborhood they can just you know each day print the memorial t-shirt for whoever died that week um you know and likewise no one should have to clean the blood up of their loved one off the you know front hallway of their home uh and you know it's like so the film is kind of a challenge to all of us i think like you know what can we do to you know to make people ask questions like what you know what can we do to change this and you know how can we create more opportunities for people living in neighborhoods like this Justin you get to know him Denise's son and and you know he's now the the new bright hope of the family and and of the neighborhood and and so you know I think anybody watching this film is going to want to find ways to help kids like Justin find success I was going to say before

that um I think you I think you were paraphrasing Cheryl saying like this can feel like you know the viewers losing their own family member i watched this movie yesterday afternoon and i just have not been able to get it out of my head and i haven't been able to get this family out of my head and right before we started recording i told luke like i feel like a member of the family like i want to check in with them like right now i can't imagine how you feel i mean of course you are still checking in with them i assume especially now that the film is rolling out but you guys have

remain close yeah we've always been close and uh we we talk pretty much every day um and yeah and they've been doing a lot of stuff around the the film so we've been doing a lot of events over zoom and and um and they're doing really pretty amazingly well all things considered i mean um they you know smurf is is really flourishing he's um you see him working in at starting to at a grocery store uh toward the end of the film and now he's been there a few years he's been promoted a number of times he's one of the managers of the store now i mean he's working his ass off during the pandemic but you know he's doing his kids are uh to kale and we call his son little smurf now he's like 16 years 16 years old towers over me but i still call him little smurf And when, but, you know, and everyone's had. their ups and downs and the pandemic has definitely not been easy and in especially in neighborhoods like uh southeast dc you really see just the way everything goes to hell quickly um you know not just not just more deaths and hospitalizations but but just everything is is way more challenging um but uh that being said they're they're hanging they're pretty good and and they're they're i'm just i'm happy that they're so proud of the film and and and um you know the dream has always been to share the family story in a way that, yeah, like you said, that makes it feel like it's your own family, you know, and that you want to root for them and hope the best for them and also hope the best for people who are in the same kind of circumstances. So it's just really exciting. We've paired with a couple of organizations. Every Town for Gun Safety does really awesome work reducing gun violence And also Black Lives Matter DC. And so we've been working with both of those groups to use the film as a tool for change. And, you know, we're just, you know, the film is just coming out right now. But we can already see how much potential it has for impact. So that's exciting.

What's the scoop? Because I know it's played at some festivals. And so it's existed for a while. But, like, where is it now and how do people see it? Sure.

Well, it's in over 100 cities right now. um, through virtual cinema, which how that works is basically you go to the, you go to the website of, you can just go to our website, which is 17blocksfilm.com, uh, 17blocksfilm. Um, you go there, it's got a list of, you know, it kind of guides you through it, but there's a list of like a hundred cities. So for a lot of people, it's going to be in their, in their hometown, there's going to be a theater that's streaming it. So it'll link you to their website. You can stream it through them and watch it on your tv or your laptop or whatever um even if you don't have even if your local theater is not showing it you can just pick any theater that you want to support and buy a ticket and watch the movie um and yeah and then you know from there you know the Sanford and I we've already been doing um in the last 10 years we started this program called Washington to Washington and we just take kids from their neighborhood it was Cheryl's idea originally but we take kids from the neighborhood that uh camping and hiking every summer just a week-long trip to some beautiful national park it started out like 10 kids going from washington dc to mount washington new hampshire but every year it's grown to the point where like last trip we had 60 kids from dc and also uh from new orleans and detroit and uh you know it's kind of like a sprawling wild family camping trip smurf and denise come as trip leaders and a bunch of other friends of theirs and friends of mine and uh you know a week in the woods isn't going to cure every problem for you know every challenge these kids are facing but at the same time it can be really transformational and just just giving kids a sense of you know the world as cheryl likes to say you know the world's full of possibility there's more out there than just you know what's in your couple blocks she always says she feels like if if the people that killed her son had had had had a chance to do a trips like this like she likes to think that maybe the crime wouldn't have happened and they they wouldn't have pulled the trigger they would have you know gotten into other things so so uh yeah these trips have been amazing and then we just throw it together diy style every year um actually i know some tbtl listeners that have supported the trips over the years and oh nice uh yeah it's just literally it's like 20 bucks here 50 100 you know this is the only charity organization that

we'll share the stage with because usually we're the charity organization we're the ones we're the is asking them to support us, but if you're going to support something else, this sounds like an almost as worthy cause

as TVTL. Yes, I would say not as worthy, but it's also really special, and people can support two. They have enough room they can support two. Anyways, yeah, but the family is great, and that's another way we've just remained so close. I've seen their kids out of the woods grow up over the years. Actually, I have a two-year-old son now. and thanks yeah it's been really one of the most i'd say heartwarming aspects of this journey with this family has been seeing those kids now they're 13 14 15 seeing them with my two-year-old they treat them with so much love and like and they just start there's you know they know that i used to change their diapers and hang out with them when they were little pipsqueaks so um that seeing them shower love on my son has been really nice and just the gen our generations continue to come

together i feel like this should be it's a very intense film but i feel like it should be required viewing in schools maybe like in high school because i mean what andrew was saying earlier like and I just, after watching the film, just felt like I knew the Samford family so closely. And, you know, you hear, particularly for somebody who has a lot of privilege like I do, and you didn't grow up in a neighborhood where gun violence was prevalent, you hear these statistics, you hear there's this really incredibly powerful scene where Emanuel is watching a news report about gun violence that's happened, I assume, in Southeast, pretty close to where they're living. and to see this kid experiencing his neighborhood talked about in this way um was really powerful but also like for me it's just like this was probably the most i've ever really comprehended what gun violence does to a family structure because you just feel so connected to the

characters in this film totally i mean well i'll share that with the sanfords they'll be very happy to hear you say that all that because uh that was so much the goal i think that once the project change 10 years in and we started seeing it as an actual movie you know i think that was the goal to bring people in especially i mean for people we've heard from people who live in the neighborhood uh who have appreciated how you know you're seeing on on camera uh you know on the screen like all the stuff that some of these folks have actually experienced in their own lives and to have that experience articulated like they said is really meaningful but i think we all we've also talked a lot about just people who who didn't grow up in a neighborhood like this but just for to give them that you know where they might hear a statistic but it's one thing to hear a thousand people in dc were killed and you know in shootings this year or 50 000 in the country you know but but it's another to walk with a family through the you know the years and see yeah just what it does to a family and a community um and yeah i mean i i found you know i grew up in a diverse area but but we didn't have these kinds of crimes we it wasn't it wasn't routine you know to have gun deaths you know so um for me too it's been like a real it's been really striking and and i've i just got my sense of understanding has expanded so deeply there's there's more than

just trauma in this movie i want to make that very clear too there's i mean just beautiful moments of love and joy and good point so i just want the listeners to know that but there's also as you said like just tragedy tragedy that i can barely talk about without choking up right now how and i know you don't want to make this i assume you don't want to make this like all about you this is about the sanford family but how was it for you and them revisiting that trauma like were you re-traumatized when it was time to make this yeah well thanks for making that

first point because yes uh we don't we don't want people to watch the movie thinking you know it's like medicine like they have to watch it even though it's gonna have some heartbreak it it is it is hard to watch at times and it's extremely raw and intense but but there's also you know this family has also had so many triumphs and you know as smurf talks a lot about his own redemption and and and you know you there's there's great moments of uplift and warmth and and yeah for

Anybody who not to not to compare the two, but if you're listening to TVTL right now, you like people just kind of living their lives together in a recorded format. And there's a lot of that. There's a ton of beauty in the film and joy and just really strong kind of human connection that you feel with the family as they're just living their life.

Yeah, totally. Totally. But but at the same time, you're right. Like when we started digging on editing and even I think, you know, sharing the film, like even no matter how much we've watched it together in a tiny editing room, when you start putting it on a big screen and watching it with an audience, like it is almost like you're experiencing it again for the first time. And I also think just on a very personal level, I think that since I was behind the camera a lot of the time, especially in the weeks and months after, you know, a person that I loved died, like, I think it insulated me from some of the sharp emotions I might have otherwise felt at the time. And so I sort of realized that there was some grieving and some trauma that I hadn't really dealt with, you know. And, of course, you know, what the family has gone through, it's much more, much deeper and more painful. But I noticed them, too, like sort of, you know, I know it was challenging. It was both, it was, it was simultaneously, it was bittersweet, I'd say. It was simultaneously really rewarding for their, you know, a person that they love so much to see their story sort of celebrated and shared. And, and, um, but also, you know, it's, it's hard to watch that stuff. It's like, you know, if in 20 years, you know, the best moments of your life and the worst moments of your life, if it's all on, if it's on camera and it's all on the big screen, you know, it, you have to grapple with it again. Um, fortunately I think that the family is.

is, is getting the kind of support they didn't maybe get at the time, which is, you know, they, they have counselors, um, they have other people, um, and, and, and also just talking about tragic things in your life. I think anyone who's even like lost a parent or anything, you know, like it, it's important to be able to talk about it and, and, and it actually can be therapeutic, you know? And so I, I know that the family has told me that, that although it's at times difficult, It also actually has, you know, helped them come to a new place with things and been therapeutic in its own way.

Well, it also feels, I mean, not to assume how the Sanfords are feeling, but I could see a world in which this senseless violence, at the very least, in putting it in a film, there's a way of maybe illuminating the world a little more for people. and this world, and in some small way, I don't know if you could say preventing this stuff, but just at least making some small amount of meaning to what is an otherwise very meaningless

thing that happened. Yes, absolutely. I think Cheryl has said exactly that, that the film for her, and that's why I think she was so driven, has been so driven to, and it was often her just like nudging me and being persistent with me, because I'm always in 50 directions at once, You know, but but just saying, you know, having the film has given some sense of meaning to this otherwise senseless act. And and and and there is absolutely like the impact it has is just just in making people aware and care. Like that's the biggest thing you can hope to really do with a film. Beyond that, you know, yes, there are some policy things. But, you know, like this film isn't tied to one specific piece of legislation or something like, you know, you must vote yes on proposal X and Y, you know, it's but but it's more than just like saying, you know, sharing a world with people that some folks, you know, haven't, you know, intersected with that much. And once people start caring, you know, especially, you know, the film's title is 17 Blocks because it's kind of a challenge to the people in, you know, the family lives 17 blocks from the Capitol building when I met them and have continued to live in those neighborhoods, you know, just in the shadow of the U.S. Capitol. And so the fact that this stuff is happening so close to that building where these major decisions are made about how resources are allocated and, you know, it's kind of a challenge to the people in power to pay attention to what's happening all around the country, but also right under their noses.

uh it's a really incredible piece of filmmaking storytelling i wish you would not be good at making movies because you're you're good at making like all the content that i've observed of yours and i thought maybe you could leave filmmaking out but it feels it feels unfair that you also are a good documentary filmmaker in addition to all the other stuff that you do thanks that really

means a lot to me i i my anger i love i love what i love what you guys do and so i no no not your

anger no just your your your uh your your compliment um i uh but uh i was i wanted to also if we can don't start a podcast david yeah well i was about to say thing number one please leave will you leave this space alone for us please no promises guys um i i so everyone please go see 17 blocks go to the website watch this film it's it's beautiful and powerful and really amazing okay now can we get to the important stuff what did you and camaro kevin i even do

on our night out because i have no conscious memory of it okay we went to a bar on the i have this was in seattle presumably right yes it was in seattle it's it's on the north side i wish i

could say i knew exactly probably the mandarin gate was it in a chinese restaurant i think so

okay uh it was i think it might have been it's about maybe like 60th 60 blocks north of uh like I forget how Seattle is.

Yeah, it's probably the gate. That would be the likely place.

Like 65th and Greenwood or something like that.

Oh, maybe the Baranoff. That sounds like the Baranoff probably.

That sounds right.

Did we have fun? How was it? I wish I was there.

We had a great night. It was a lot of drinks. And, yeah, man, Kamara Kev is like an icon. Getting to know him was amazing. and there was a bunch of other friends of yours circulating around. I mean, you know how it gets. You get in a conversation with one person or another and you get lost in it, but I just remember it was a pretty fun night and I was asking you for advice at the time, I think, in my love life, trying to deal with it. I remember you giving me some advice. Oh, no. God.

Well, I mean, you have a son now, so it couldn't have been all bad. It worked out. Something went okay.

Oh, my God. I am the last person who needs to be giving out relationship advice.

Anyways, it's been a long stretch. I just admire so much. It takes me 20 years to make a movie. So the fact that you can get a podcast out so regularly and not just that, but not just the podcast, which is great and which I tune into sometimes and always love but but but the community that you build have built around it you know like i'm part of the the one of the facebook groups uh for the stens if i'm pronouncing that right uh and uh it's it's just i really admire that longevity now do you you might it sounds like

you don't realize this you know that each podcast we produce we put 20 years space between the recording of lived experience so this interview that we're doing right now will air around 2041

yeah awesome well the film will be out on hologram by then i also think davy this is what nobody's talking about i consider this film a love letter to pick up basketball because that's how you met the sanfords and i not so much anymore but in my day i mean pickup basketball was like the center piece of my life it's actually how i know camaro kev because i didn't i played pickup basketball with some dudes who were like friends with friends of his and then we all hung out and then i was like oh this is the person that's actually like I like to hang out with and and yeah pick up basketball is this amazing kind of world of socializing that people that don't play it a lot would maybe not be aware of but you make all kinds of odd and unexpected connections through pick up basketball

know that I'm so happy that you brought that up because that's that is absolutely true you know like I mean anywhere I've ever lived it is it is a place to meet and and also people's personalities emerge like really quickly and interestingly on a court like you kind of get to see some essential things about their soul like you know just in terms of their attitude yes their their competitiveness or their person you know like their humor you know and and so yeah I mean I met I met Smurf it was funny the other day we were doing it one of these zoom discussions about 17 blocks and uh Cheryl she was like she asked Smurf she was like how long did you know Davey before you invited him home for dinner she was like was it a few months or a couple months or a few weeks and and Smurf said it was probably a few days because I actually had forgotten that I thought it must have been two or three months too and but I mean that's the thing like you you know you play basketball with someone a handful of times and you kind of

know them and also there's a this is um something that's been on my mind too is that's seems to me as somebody who's not kind of in that basketball universe very unlikely relationship the fact that you're 22, 23 or something, and you just strike up a friendship with a 15-year-old and a 9-year-old? I mean, just age-wise.

No, totally. I think, I mean, it gives you some sense of my maturity level. But at the same time, you know, you're right. I mean, like, even, yeah, people from, you know, I play basketball now, not during the pandemic, but these days with people who are 20 years younger and 20 years older, you know and uh and so you're you're and you're cutting across ages uh backgrounds you know people from all walks of life can join together on a basketball court and so your life does intersect with a really interesting collection of people and and actually yeah so many of the people that are really important in my life and some of my best friends now are people i just

met randomly on a court there's always like a weirdly old guy who just understands the geometry of the game in like a three-dimensional chess way like he barely runs but he just has his spot he uses leverage his bo is usually terrible but like he just he's just like that guy that just has like one kind of move that he just does you know he's always at the court i look forward to being that

guy well i'm on my way there i remember as a youngster like i'd be 20 a little springier but But that guy, you'd run into him and he was like built of iron. Like he was just unmovable.

He was taking a lot of charges during the game even though there's no ref. Like, really? Okay.

I feel like I'm definitely ahead of there myself. And, yeah, your game changes as you get older. But, no, but, you know, I'm someone who likes talking to people and meeting people like wherever I'm at. But you know how kind of when you're at a bar, it just kind of facilitates talking to strangers and engaging with them. sometimes learning their stories that's exactly what happens on a basketball court you know um it just and there's something intimate physically too about you know you're banging up against people you're you know you're if you're guarding someone you're you're leaning on them you know you're you're yeah you're smelling what they ate for

lunch you know so it's like i think that physical intimacy actually helps people feel more comfortable just talking about their lives and you know getting to know being more personable um i think we could

do a spinoff podcast about pickup basketball if you would agree to it davy um and andrew you can be on it too maybe we teach you how to maybe we teach you how to play pickup basketball that's the That's the arc.

That would be.

It's the round orange one, right? Yes, exactly. 360 dunks and slam pointers. That's right. Well, listen, Davey, great work on this film, and it's so nice to talk to you, man, and congrats on your growing family and everything.

Thanks so much. Yeah, I appreciate you guys, and I always love talking to you, so it's really great to catch up, and thank you for spreading word about 17 Blocks. we're all really proud of it and someday I hope to introduce you to the Sanfords as well

yeah man I look forward I believe we're going to talk to you and hopefully a member of the family on Livewire so pretend like all these questions are coming off my head for the first time when we redo this conversation in four days please

that'll be great and they're looking forward to it I plan to talk to Smurf

about pick up basketball for 1.5

I know that they don't know who we are but please give them our love. I'm sure they're getting a lot of love from around the country as you have these conversations but they're a special family.

It really means a lot to them to know that people are learning their story and that people care. Thank you guys and I'm excited for TBTL folks to get to know the Sanfords too.

Right on. Well thanks Davey. Be safe man. Alright. Be good guys.

Talk to you soon. Thanks.

Alright. Before we get out of here on a Fri-yay, which I'm saying ironically, Andrew. I don't think so. I don't say Fri-yay. It's not what I seriously call it. I don't know. Let's do a little music for your weekend. What song would you like to put on the listener's radar on this Friday?

So I've been collecting songs over the course of January and February. Oh, yeah.

You put some playlists out the other day.

Yeah, and so I put a playlist for the two first months of the year, which I'm very happy about. The last couple of mixes I made was a collection of a bunch of good songs, but they didn't really hang together. And I will say that this mix hangs together. You can find me on Spotify. I'm Andrew underscore Walsh if you want to listen to this or it's on Twitter. But what I like about it is like this is a kind of a pretty. Well, I was you know what? A listener slash friend of mine made a somewhat similar mixtape recently. And I was listening to hers and I told her I'm like I was listening to this. I was listening to her mixtape while I was walking to meet some friends. while it was just drizzling last Friday night in Seattle. And it was like the perfect mix to listen to while you're walking through a light drizzle on a Friday night. And so we're dubbing this kind of music Drizzlecore now. This is a thing we want to... I like it. Listener Caitlin in Boston. So here's my Drizzlecore submission for you today. This is a musician who goes by the name Ian Sweet. The musician's name is Jillian Medford. This is her stage name. and I may have played some Ian Sweet on the show before I'm not sure but this is a new track called Drink the Lake I'm going to play about 90 seconds of this maybe a little bit more than usual because I think some really good stuff happens right around the 60 second mark

let's hear it

I drink the lake, it's late, I'm drunk Thought I could swim, but I thought wrong Oh, oh, oh

Oh, oh, oh

Take love away, you'll have Your whole life to live Without the fear of Dying Oh Oh

Oh I'll start

I'll start saying your name, saying your name, backwards, so I'll forget it. I'll start saying your name, saying your name, backwards, so I'll forget it.

There you go. That's Ian.

Sweet. The name of the song is Drink the Lake. I like that a lot. I noticed that we have today, just by coincidence, I guess, all of the submissions are kind of singer-songwriter-y sounding women singers. Is it all Drizzlecore? Well, I didn't know Drizzlecore existed until 12 seconds ago, but I think they could fit in. I'd love Drizzlecore as an idea. And we certainly live in the right part of the world for it. Yes. Unfortunately, it's drizzle-coring again. Wow. The jog I'm going to take after this.

Really? It is so bright and sunny here. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad, but it's weird.

I want to play a song by a singer from Dallas named Jordana. And I learned about this song this weekend when Addy, or last weekend, I should say, when Addy was here and playing some kind of Spotify playlist. And I don't know a ton about Jordana But I like this song a lot It's called Reason And I just feel it's kind of catchy After you hear it, Andrew, you've got to tell me if it's Drizzlecore or not Okay, so take a listen to this

I had a reason for all of this

The answer I dismissed

As a gazed and reminisced Then I kissed you You give me candy, you give me buds You give me reassurance when I absolutely need to hear it

Like the scent of peppermint The smell of you is on my clothes In my mouth and in my nose

Everywhere You're everywhere Everywhere You're everywhere

I can't fake this shit So there you go. Would you call that Drizzlecore? I think so, yeah. I mean, Katie kind of came up with a term, so I'll let her be the final arbiter on these things. But yeah, I could definitely see this on the mix that I just made. It's like, you know, walking, sun just set, a little drizzly, feeling good.

By the way, there's a couple of, I was doing some Googling while we were playing that, There are a few different performers, as you might imagine, who perform under the name Jordana. This one is Jordana Nye, N-Y-E. So if you were interested in the music and you want to go find out more about what Jordana is doing, you're looking for Jordana Nye.

Okay, by the way, I just typed Jordana into Spotify, though, and it did pop up immediately.

Okay, good. There's at least one other Jordana who is in Dallas. Oh, okay. and plays music so i just want to make sure i was sending people in the right direction uh today's listener suggestion comes from listener sarah in bainbridge says hi luke hi andrew now a lot of times as i've mentioned andrew i just change it to hi guys because people are saying hi to me and i don't want you to feel left out sarah said hi luke hi andrew that's from the original message very inclusive uh hi luke hi andrew this is my first time submitting a tune i love this song it's by a bainbridge native and it's catchy as heck see what you think um quizzical emoji emoji kind of holding its chin in its hand uh and the song is called 1999 and it's by someone named katie cuffl uh who is from uh bainbridge originally and uh that's probably how Sarah in Bainbridge figured out that Katie was making music. So that is the song that we are going to go out with on this Friday which will bring us to the end of our broadcast week. So thank you so much everyone for listening. Thanks for helping us do this thing. Let's try to do a long show on Monday. What do you think? Did you see? You see somebody said they're breaking up with us because I've been ending the show by saying mask up. Yes. I read that at the beginning.

I read that right as you were doing the intro of the show, and I was like, should I say something about this? This is so hilarious. An angry person sick of hearing all the radio stations and podcasts telling him to wear a mask, so he has to take a break from the show.

He did say he'll probably be back. So whenever you're ready, friend, come on back. But in the meantime, I probably am going to stand by my pro mask. Yeah. Anyway, thanks for listening, everyone. Enjoy your weekend. Please stay safe. Mask up. Sorry.

Ugh. Get out of my business, Burbank.

And we'll see you on Monday. Until then, please remember to mountain to tall.

And good luck to all.

Get out of my – oh, the elephant. The elephant came back. To grind life slow, got to stay slow. A picture of your wedding vows lives on my page.

33 years to choose. Love is what love is, but I don't know I don't know

Brother, found a caterpillar in my cup And the moon's been looking bigger every time that I look up I hear radio in the static in my room

Your voice is trying to say I got to move

When I was a spark, I saw your eyes begin to dim. I couldn't understand, I couldn't let you in so soon. It was too slow

But now I see that mirror Reflecting off my cheek How hard it must have been To see your pain inside of me

Like the sun does

We're rolling here And I think you sound wonderful, by the way Great connection on the phone

Good, good That's the highest compliment Andrew can offer A guest on TBTL You're giving good phone. He's psyched. Power out.