Muse

Denny, don't worry about that. Lisa loves you too, as a person, as a human being, as a friend. You know, people don't have to say it. They can feel it. What do you mean? You can love someone deep inside your heart, and there is nothing wrong with it. If a lot of people love each other, the world would be a better place to live.

All right, let's toss the ball around.

Okay. TBTN

I love meeting people and connecting with them and smiling with them. But I'm an introvert because no, I don't. Nice software.

Well, you sure don't talk like a machine. The most rewarding part was when he gave me my money.

All right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Tuesday edition of TVTL, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. Peace and love.

Peace and love.

My name is Luke Burbank. I'll be your host. Coming to you from the Nest Broadcast Center high in the sky above Portland, Oregon.

I'm wearing dark glasses today because I'm seeing the future and it's looking very bright.

If you are hearing this program on a Tuesday, of course, we're calling it a Tuesday edition of the show. I feel in the spirit of full disclosure, we should let you know it's being recorded actually on Monday afternoon. And that is because when you're hearing this on Tuesday, I'll be on an airplane somewhere going out to Oklahoma City because I'm doing a TV story this week about the band The Flaming Lip.

I'm like seriously excited. I'm kind of shy, but mostly excited.

Which is a big dream of mine that that's going to happen. So, yeah, fingers crossed. When I touch down in OKC and check in on Wednesday's show, I'll give you an update on how everything is going out there. For now, though, I still am here at the Nest Broadcast Center and very excited to be hanging out with all of you on episode 3,375 in a collector's series. Let the fun begin. Right as I said that, I got nervous. Because when we mess with the space-time continuum on this program, it's usually a recipe for disaster. And by disaster, I mean me getting the wrong episode number out there. So fingers crossed that I actually managed to update it correctly. Anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about. What we are going to talk about today is a journey into our personalities by way of something called the Enneagram Quiz.

Just study it out and you'll see.

We are going to take this quiz, or at least parts of it, live on air and continue to talk about it a little bit afterwards with a good friend of mine, one Lauren Masterson, who turned me on to the whole idea. So that'll be a big part of today's show. Also, of course, we'll do emails and V-mails and we have time. I could talk about my toenail situation, which mercifully we ran out of time on yesterday. Anyway, we'll do all that with the help of this young man, the longest-running co-bro of the show. He's known for his drawings of tall ships. Even though this show is being recorded on a Monday but airing on a Tuesday, he knows what he'll be having for dinner the night of this show's premiere. I might have tacos when I go home. I'm not quite sure yet. He is Andrew Walsh, and he's joining me right now from the Roosevelt neighborhood of Seattle, Washington. Good morning, my friend.

As we dig more into our personalities and the stereotypes of our personalities or aspects thereof, I think it's interesting that I was going to tell you I'm almost less likely to eat tacos on a Tuesday just to avoid saying that I'm celebrating Taco Tuesday. That has got to be one of the questions on this quiz, right? Would you be the type of person who avoids eating tacos on a Tuesday just so that you're not buying into the Taco Tuesday hoopla?

I see you doing that, or I see you avoiding that behavior. I weirdly, during the pandemic, particularly when I was still living up in Bellingham, kind of leaned into the Taco Tuesday. That's right. Which I would have never seen myself doing. But the thing there, Andrew, is that I am capable of growth and evolving as a human. And you're not. And that's why I'm a 15.

15th level Hufflepuff, and you're still working your way up to Slytherin status. Is this Harry Potter related, this thing we're going to do?

I was going to say the only growth that you're doing is in your toenails, but the thing is I don't want to start that conversation. Really?

Does that gross you out?

Well, yeah, I don't want to talk about anybody's toenails. I don't want to talk about my own janky toenails. I don't want to talk about your damn toenails. I don't want to talk about anybody's toenails. I definitely don't want to talk about it with those weird fungus cartoons that you see in the TV commercials that live in our toes. Digger the Dermatophyte? Oh, my God.

What's wrong with the world? I agree that those Digger commercials are kind of gross. Sorry, if I seem a little distracted, right in the middle of my little kind of patter at the top, my phone started blowing up. It's the producer I'm working with on this story in Oklahoma City. And the problem is, and I don't, it is unclear to me when and why these things happen the way they do, but sometimes my watch also starts hapticking crazily. I don't know if it's when the watch and the phone are too close together, but it was like very startling. So I got a little distracted during the intro, and then I'm now getting texts, and I guess we're just lucky that it didn't do the thing where it actually starts ringing on my laptop. Yeah, that's good. take that's also a real thing and it's terrifying it happened to me today earlier on i was recording some some stuff that was for a different cbs project and right in the middle of me talking about the reading the script my computer just like put a alert sound that honestly almost had me jumping out of my chair and it was the hotel that i'm staying at in oklahoma city Reminding me that I'm staying there tomorrow And I was like thank you so much I don't know what I would have done in my life If I didn't get that auto reminder That was somehow integrated into my calendar I mean this is really building off of The conversation that we had the other day on the show I think it was Friday About my devices talking to each other And how my printer had ratted me out To the Amazon device That it was low on toner And then the Amazon device told Amazon, like, the mothership. And then the mothership emailed me with a link to the toner saying, here you go. You're low on this. We think you might need this, sir. And I felt really weird about that. But the same thing with all these different calendar alerts and things. It's mostly it's that I don't know which things are going to do that and which things aren't. And there seems to be no rhyme or reason. I'm sure there is a rhyme or reason buried in the code in the software somewhere. But I can't seem to figure it out

Well first of all I think that probably what we're seeing Here is the universe getting us Off of the toenail topic so thank you For that technology And when you first said No I'm going to keep going because I don't want you to bring it up

Consider this podcast a version of Westfield, New Jersey Wherein I will just continue Using my powers To create a toenail shaped Force field around this city Actually it's possible my toenails might grow into a big pecs. You're ruining everything. You're ruining everything. I'm ruining two things you love. Our relationship.

Don't flatter yourself, Angel. Wow. And also WandaVision. Why do I say don't flatter yourself, Angel? That is from a movie and I heard it at a young age. I think it's from Batman. 1989 Batman. Don't flatter yourself, Angel. Grisham doesn't know about us. And so for some reason I always have that response in my head don't flatter yourself angel i thought it was just like such a such a good burn at the time although now i just i like the gender dynamics there and i'm less no yeah that's it

wouldn't be great if you were if you're using that terminology uh with someone identified as a woman but i don't and therefore i think it's kind of cute i like you calling me angel i hope it can

become a whole new thing just call me angel on the podcast baby now if now i know that i'm going to hear that again like near the end i had the realization that that is in the clear and you're going to use that you're going to weapon kind of stepped on it but i have a feeling that our

unnamed producer will be able to figure something out um i was going to say if one of the dazzling donors today requests call me angel of the morning for the going out music that would be quite quite the coincidence anyway back to my toenails really quickly i um when i i moved here the listeners probably have a better sense of it than I do, but I feel like it was kind of mid-November. And so however long that's been, three months, almost four months now, some period of time, of the many things I brought down here, one of the things I didn't bring were toenail clippers, just one of those things. I must have, because I was back in Bellingham around Christmas time, I must have handled things, as it were. I must have clipped my toenails at some point. But what I've realized is since I've been back down here, I have not had access to a set of nail clippers. And by not had access, I mean just not had some here. Of course, I could walk downstairs and go find a CVS and get some. But what's more interesting is it feels like there's some kind of stasis point where I don't know if it's just the jogging or what, but the toenails seem – I feel like they didn't have toenail clippers in the caveman days, and the caveman did not die of toenail elongation. So I think the human body must have a solution to this And now that I'm like a good couple months Into not having clipped my toenails I feel like this stasis is being hit And I'm very curious to see how far I can go without clipping them

I wonder if running I could see running Doing one or two Yeah kind of Or on the other hand though You'd think that maybe you'd be more sensitive Like sometimes if I cut my nails wrong Or something like you get one kind of toe I have some I mean, listen, I guess I'm jacked up feet. That's all we need to say about that. But do you ever get the thing where one toenail is digging into the side of another one? And, like, I can't imagine, like, running helping that much.

That one happens to me sometimes. I've also historically had an ingrown toenail or two, but I've really perfected my – in fact, that's the thing I should probably be worried about. Because generally speaking, I've really perfected my way of clipping my toenails so that it prevents ingrown toenails or it kind of – I can, as it were, nip them in the bud or clip them in the bud. Like I can handle that situation pretty well now. But maybe that's a reason for me to be a little bit more careful because once you get an ingrown situation going, it's bad news. That being said, you know part of why I'm probably being overly talkative on this topic, Andrew, and you're not a fan of this subject is it was just laid out in what you said, which was that you feel like you have kind of some toenail situations that are not particularly pleasant for people to look at. I actually have, generally speaking, I have been told that I have the least gross feet. Carrie told me that I had the least gross feet of anyone that she had dated. Yeah, but have you seen the feet of the people she dated before you? I did, actually. A little careful online stalking. It's amazing what you can find on Google Street Maps, Andrew. Google Street View.

I was looking. I'm trying to think who I was looking up the other day. And it went to a WikiFeet page for a female musician, I want to say, or actor.

So you punched in the celebrity's name, and the first response that came up was something involving their feet. It wasn't the first.

It's driving me crazy who was it, but maybe it's good that I don't remember the details. But it was definitely not the first, but it was in the first page. It was definitely in the first page.

I'm not surprised by that because, again, not that the listeners need – the listeners will go very far into our psyches in the next part of the show anyway. But not that the listeners need to go into this part of my brain or know about this part of how my wiring is. But that's not a thing for me that I spend any time thinking about in terms of other people's feet in any sort of erotic context. And for people that that's something they enjoy, you know, go with God. It's not really a thing that I'm into. But I can tell you that on TikTok, people are often talking about the requests they get for pictures of their feet. Yeah, that's where I think. There's a lot of chatter around around people asking for feet pictures, which makes me think that must be a thing people are asking.

Yeah, which it seems I can't really speak to this, honestly, and I probably shouldn't. But it seems like I mean, the fact that I'm looking up somebody and it's like, oh, yeah, also, people are really into her feet. Like and there's a whole website dedicated to famous people's feet.

Like, well, I don't even know on there.

Objectify away. Can I get on that website for famous feet? Oh, right. That's true. Well, yeah, I don't know what their policy is on middle-aged podcast hosts. But, I mean, I've sent in my photos many times. I have not gotten the blue checkmark yet for some reason. But, yeah, I don't know. I feel like there's something invasive about that. And maybe I'm thinking of, like, somebody on Twitter a while. I mean, this is a long time ago, but maybe this is when I realized that something was going on. There was somebody was taking a photo of something on her floor, and she, like, put black bars over her feet. So this is just like some, this wasn't a famous person. It's just somebody I follow. And I kind of realized, oh, that's because this person is uncomfortable because there are people out there. I almost said pervs. And you're right. Like if you have a certain predilection, that's the right word. If you have a certain, you know, attraction or kink or whatever you want to call it, like I'm not judging that. But I do wonder if there's a darkness in people being uncomfortable posting what would otherwise be, you know, kind of innocent photos. But you have to be careful because you don't want somebody passing it around or submitting it to a website.

Right, and I guess that's where it gets complicated because we think of certain parts of the human body as being, at least in the West or in the U.S., certain parts as being potentially sexualized, and those are parts that are generally covered up. There's a whole side discussion to be had around why we choose those body parts and whether that's something that should be the case. But feet are something That are out there in public view We have not at least up until recently I think thought of them as something that had An inherently sexual component to them And so there's lots of pictures of people With their feet out there that then if other people take those pictures And use them In a way that is gratifying for them In that kind of world It just creates a lot of like It's like all of a sudden someone decided And I know this isn't how it works But all of a sudden somebody decided That you know like thumbs are very sexy and then everyone who's had a picture where their thumb is like wait wait wait can we could you not maybe could we not have that be part of your particular personal times with yourself so that's why the feet fall into this weird category well yeah and i guess now

that i'm thinking about it i'm just sorting all this out i never never thought this is where the show was going to lead today and you know i'm happy to get off this topic whenever you are but But hearing what I just said before about taking photos and then compiling them or whatever, spreading them around on websites that have a different purpose than why you posted a photo on your personal Instagram or Twitter, that's not really an issue with people who are attracted to feet. That's just an issue of modern day technology and privacy and respect for other human beings, whether it's thumbs or or any, you know, or however you like to dress or undress. You know what I mean? I think it's what I was, I guess, maybe more reacting to there is people losing a certain bit of ownership or feeling somewhat scared to be able to do what they want because of people who want to sexualize it or, you know.

Can I just say for the record, fetishize away my feet. I'm the only person offering free foot photos to any and all requesters. In fact, if you see a picture of my feet on the Internet, go nuts. The thing is you probably won't because I – I mean, and this is just the irony of life. I have beautiful feet. By the way, I've texted Carrie trying to get clarification on what exactly she said about my feet. But I'm not going to lie to you. It really gassed me up. It really put some wind in my sails to this day.

You're telling people to solicit you for feet pics on a public radio podcast. I can tell that it hit the right spots for you.

Well, if Francis Lamb is going to charge for him, I have to try to, you know, do what I can to keep this as an affordable option for fans of this public radio studio. No, but I. Splendid toenails. You will not find probably any pictures of me barefoot on the Internet because I am rarely – that's the funny part, is for having what have been verified by one out of one former wife. I have what are very decent-looking feet, and yet I don't go around in bare feet in public, and I don't generally wear – like I wouldn't even wear flip-flops or slides in public. Look, I bet there are no pictures of my feet on the Internet, which I just think is a real shame.

No, I know that there are some because there would be times like, you know, you would send a photo. I remember sending a posting of a show pic one more than one time, but specifically one time where we talked about it. And I even said, oh, come on, you're going to put your feet in this like my bare feet. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember. I don't know if it was a Roomba picture, but but it wouldn't have been could not have been that recent. That's too recent. Right. Yeah. But something like that. Maybe, I don't know.

What does it say that the only time I can have a definitive sense of when something happened in my life is based on what kind of vacuum technology I was using? I have no idea how old anybody in my family is. I forget my own age at times. But I can tell you officially, it wasn't as recently as the Randy the Roomba time. Oh, the Dyson years. Right. Forget salad days. I'm talking the Dyson days. Dyson days are here again? Could that be a show title? Ooh, I kind of like that. Bring some Led Zeppelin into it. We've got to get to our Enneagram test. But it was funny because when I was touring my little nephews around Portland, my little nephew Abe really likes the drums. And I was like, what music do you want to play? And he was like, what Led Zeppelin do you have? Whoa, what Led Zeppelin do you have? I mean, you know, the phone has all of the Led Zeppelin that you could ever want because of streaming, because of my streams. Wait, is that how that works? But you may say, Andrew, see yesterday's show for that joke, but it was just funny to see an eight-year-old kid who is just getting into the idea of this music of Led Zeppelin. It was kind of fun He digs it because he likes the drum parts Because it's fun to air drum along with But I was like, oh man, another generation Is going to do their dance With the music of Led Zeppelin

Did you ask him what he thinks of What's the Led Zeppelin Sounding band that irritates you Because you feel like it's such a rip off God, I wish I would have been like Greta Van Fleet

Well the reason you can't remember their name is because it makes Well, it makes sense to them Listen, if your fetish is Feet or Greta Van Fleet, I don't want to judge you or make you feel wrong. Greta Van Feet. There it is. It's going to be a show where we take a personality test, but we're going to be calling it Greta Van Feet. You have no choice. That might be like the best show title we've had in a good while just because of how it sort of dovetails a couple of different conversational paths we've been on. Okay, let's take a break. Everybody, please, wash your minds out with some soap. Everybody just calm down, okay? And when we come back, we'll take this personality, this Enneagram test, and see what it tells us about ourselves in a moment here on TBTL.

On your mark. On your mark. Get set. Get set. Now ready. Ready. Go. Everybody rattle, dazzle.

Everybody rattle, dazzle.

Everybody rattle, dazzle. Hey, hey, hey, let's unmute our microphone and thank some dazzling donors.

I thought you were letting the music play out a little bit more than usual there, but I thought you were just feeling it.

I'm so glad. It turns out it was kind of a blessing the mic was muted. I solicited a variety or offered a variety of photos to the listeners that I honestly felt was regrettable as I was doing it. And it was just kind of a lucky, a little bit of a stroke of luck that the mic was muted, Andrew. I'll be totally honest with you. You know who I'd like to thank right now is dazzling donor Candy Brewster of Port Murray, New Jersey. Candy says, a longtime listener and huge fan. You've accompanied me through the ups and downs of my life in the past many years. I am always amazed by the TENS community and although I am mainly an observer I know that this gang would be there if I needed them which is a that's a cool thing about the TBTL listener community and I very much agree with Candy, by the way, Dazzling Donors are a dazzling, they're donating a dazzling amount of dough and that's really huge for the bottom line of the show I will withhold comment on various APM roilings but I will just say that it does us a lot of good within the organization that we have folks like Candy and the other Dazzling Donors and all of the donors at TBTL who demonstrate the value of this program to even our bosses. Yes. But I agree with Candy also in the idea that the community of TENS is so great. And even if you're not somebody who plays in that space constantly, like if you're not in the Slack page or the Facebook page all the time, there's just this sense. I even have it, Andrew, weirdly And, like, I mean, these donors are, the listeners of TBTL are paying for your salary and mine so we can do this job. So it's not like they're not already doing enough for us. But I honestly think, boy, if I really, really, really needed help, this is the group of people I'd probably turn to. I know that feeling.

I feel like I could do, like, a trust dive off my roof right now, and there would be a 10 down there to catch me.

It's very possible. Candy says my three hour commute has shrunk to a zero hour commute in the past year, but I've managed to weave TBTL into my daily routine. Also, Candy, thanks for that. I would guess that TBTL, starting from a pretty humble place in terms of how many listeners we have. My guess would be we've had a less extreme drop off than other shows because the podcast, because the people that are listening to this show are so dedicated like Candy is that a lot of them have still found ways to access the program, whereas a lot of other shows have suffered from everyone's commutes being disrupted. Candy says, I have managed to weave TBTL into my daily routine, a bit of normalcy in a very unnormal time for that. I thank you. I also thank you for continuing to raise the very complicated issue of homelessness into casual conversation. That's my life's work. There are no simple explanations or solutions, but raising awareness is huge. So see, Andrew, when you continually remind people the fact that you help distribute food for folks who are unhoused on Sundays, it's not just polishing your own apple. It's making listener candy feel like you're an ally and you're part of the fight against homelessness.

Yeah, but I mean, yes, and it's Candy's message, but I don't want to lose sight of the fact that I'm pointing three fingers back at myself when I'm pointing at Candy and the work she does.

When you high-five candy, your wrist stares at you? I don't know. I think that's what they say, right? All I know is, and I've said this to you a million times, Luke, is this is my go-to joke. I don't like to use the word hero unless somebody's using it about me. You know what? I like to use the word maestro.

On your mark. On your mark. Get set. Get set. Now ready. Ready. Go. Everybody rattle, settle.

We also would be remiss if we did not thank and honor Dazzling Donor, Hannah Clayton, who's in Martin, Tennessee. Hannah says, no message, please. But would it be possible to play a song my 11 wrote instead of reading something? It's called Phantom Lover by Stephen Clayton, and the album is Coming Home. My 11 has been very supportive of how important TBTL, Luke and Andrew, are to me, even driving 12 hours in a single day just to attend the event in Austin. Wow.

Yes, Hannah, we can do that.

Should we go out with that, Andrew?

Yeah, that probably makes the most sense. It's a nice song. It's an instrumental. I listened to it this weekend. Excellent. I hope I did right by Hannah here, though, for real, because when Hannah says no message but then we read it, Like, I wonder if she didn't want us to read that verbatim. Right, if that was parenthetical. Yeah, I just don't know. Maybe we should have just said, Hannah didn't want to play a message, but Hannah did want us to, you know, play this song. I don't know. But anyway, Hannah, I hope I didn't betray you by reading the message that said no message. I think it's good that we know that Stephen Clayton,

the artist behind the song Phantom Lover, which we're going to hear off of the album Coming Home, that Stephen is a very supportive Eleven and drove 12 hours to Austin with Hannah. I think that's good because that means more tens will be inclined to go and sample and interact with Stephen's music. Yes, yes. So I think that was a good thing that you put that in the script and then I just read it. Okay, good. Like pictures of my feet, it's a good thing. What?

What is the long tail on that? Thank you so much to all of our... And I'm not talking about your toenails.

What's the long nail on that? Thanks, Dazzling Donors

Hello and welcome to Top Story

All right, our top story today We are going to, for once and for all, Andrew Just figure out emotionally how we are wired So that you and I can finally try to get this professional And I would say personal relationship on track It's pretty clear during the first segment When I wanted to talk about my feet That was a love language for me And you were not very receptive to it So I would just like to see if we can try to have less Tension in the show

And we can try to give each other more of what we need Now that you say it I actually think the first part of this show Is probably more of a revealing personality test Than anything we're about to step into Right

Hopefully it's not going to get more intimate from there Yeah To help us with this personality the Enneagram test, or however you say it, is my good friend, former colleague, and maybe most importantly, daughter of Wayne Masterson, the guy behind this audio drop.

Wanted to add a few comments regarding your mole situation.

It's my friend Lauren Masterson, who's joining us from, what are you, like, eight blocks from me here in Portland, Lauren?

I'd say about eight blocks. Eight blocks in a better direction, but a little bit lower elevation.

I can probably see you're in Colin's place. from where I am here high in the sky. But, Lauren, thank you so much for coming on the show today to explain some of this stuff to us. So you and me and Colin were having a little drink the other night, and we got on the subject of, like, personality tests and things, and you asked me if I'd ever done this. Is it pronounced Enneagram or Enneagram?

You know, I have pronounced it Enneagram, but I may be fact-checked on that.

oh believe me these listeners will fact check you happily they love nothing more than a good

sharpshoot or an active audience so i'm ready come at me if anything i get here is right

um so this uh you asked if i'd done this enneagram thing and i you know maybe a long time ago i don't remember doing it i'm also just generally a little bit suspicious around personality tests i don't know not because i think that they are wrong but because i feel like they usually just confirm what i already kind of feel like i know about myself or how my personality is but both you and colin i feel like colin uh you're a fiance uh and i were kind of a little both on the suspicion is that weird for me to say are you used to that yet congrats by the way on being engaged thank you

so much yes it's still very fresh so no i'm not used to it is it hard for you to say that word

I don't know.

normal, Lou? Because it is for me, too. I think Seinfeld ruined it, right? Fiance? Fiance? Yes.

Colin and I actually had a talk when we got engaged. One of the biggest sticking points for us was not wanting to call each other fiancé. So we've just been sticking to partner. Sometimes I accidentally call him boyfriend. But yeah, technically he is the fiancé.

Have you considered betrothed?

Oh, of course. I mean, we've been using betrothed for years. Oh, I thought betrothed...

Ah, I see. I thought betrothed somehow meant you were like engaged. It just means you're a person, right?

I think betrothed means you're married.

Yeah.

But again, I'm going to be sharp shot on this.

No, I think you're right. Wow, I have been misusing betrothed for a lot. And that explains a lot of complication in various relationships I've been in. I've been calling a lot of people my betrothed. On the first date. Yes, exactly. It's my Tinder profile currently. And now I'll be able to add my Enneagram test to it Okay, so what is it about this one, Lauren That you think is kind of particularly interesting This personality test

Well, I'll start off by saying I'm on the other end of the scale from you I've always been very interested in personality tests Of all shapes and sizes and varieties Because I find them to be sort of interesting lenses To reflect back on myself I know a lot of people feel like personality tests put you in a box. I don't feel that way. I feel like, oh, this is a really fascinating new perspective on, you know, how I operate in the world. So Enneagram was particularly helpful for me and my, you know, type of what Enneagram came out for me. Because it's, instead of being about your behaviors or the way you kind of externally represent yourself in the world, it focuses more on your kind of core motivations and fears so it's a little dark i'm kind of nervous to take this or for you guys to hear your results because it isn't it isn't always a walk in the park so like when i got my results i was a little bit like that's dark yeah there are some

questions there are some questions in here where i was like do i give my real thoughts or what i aspire to be like because there's a couple of times where it's just like a very cutting very kind of like if you say yes to this particular question it means that you see the world sometimes in just very winners and losers kind of terms and i don't want to be that person but

if i'm being honest i'm probably kind of that person well lauren i actually was wondering about this when i was taking it do you think that that is this is a test or a questionnaire with a lot of questions and I was wondering if some of the questions are meta in that way like that I was wondering does the test know that if I answer in this way it's actually revealing something that

I don't realize I'm revealing about myself yes it is built in a kind of fascinating way like that so I never would have opted in on my own in a traditional personality test to get the type that I have for the Enneagram that's why I found it to be more revealing and it's been sort of impactful for me. And of course, I've forced all my loved ones to take it as well. And now you two are the latest to fall into my web of any of them. But oh, go ahead. Well, I was curious about like the

backstory on this, because I'll be totally honest, Lauren, when I heard you talking about it, I thought, oh, this is probably something developed at like, you know, like Harvard or something. And then when I was on the website, I felt like there was more some of the like billboard ads made me think wait am i is am i is this astrology adjacent like where does this come from this is a

sticking point for me as well i don't know where it comes from because when i have tried to do the research i feel sad and disturbed because i don't really like woo woo things and i think this is woo woo adjacent there's mystic beginnings to the enneagram i think it's quite old but i have to say you know when i look at book covers of enneagram related material they scare me it's scary because i would way rather that this was developed by harvard so i don't know i i'm not sure if anyone actually knows these types were made like a long time ago but they've stayed pretty tried and true and i think it's just become more popular i don't know i'd say over the last like two or three years there are some really really great social media accounts i'm all if

you guys oh go ahead sorry i keep doing it no no no go for it i i am having an issue with this quiz which we just took like 15 minutes ago um yes because i can't tell if deja vu is part of the quiz or not like i'm taking this thing and i remember answering these questions and now i went back i'm like did we already do this on the show and we didn't luke and i once took the myers briggs test on the show which i'd love to know like how those two compare if you have any insight on that, Lauren, but it's driving me crazy. I swear, like some of these questions are so specific and I remember answering them.

but I can't find any evidence online that we did it on TVTL. So at least we're not like repeating ourselves here, but it's kind of driving me nuts.

Well, there is, you know, because I was a huge fan of Myers-Briggs. And honestly, until I took Enneagram, that was my main personality type, and I made everyone in my life take that one. And I think...

Do you feel like you need to make everyone take it, Lauren, so that then you know how to navigate them? Like once you agree upon a framework, like it used to be Myers-Briggs, So you need to know what everyone else was. Now it's like you need to know what everyone else's Enneagram is.

You know, I actually ingest, I think my top interest in life is other people. I'm very curious about who they are and how people navigate the world. And so I'll dig super deep into myself and then I'll exhaust that resource based on that personality test. And that I would like to know what everyone else is so I can research them and apply that to, you know, my understanding of who they are. I just I'm really curious about people and that's why you know after we you know got home from drinks the other night Luke I was like here's my guess is what Andrew is because I was already thinking through like okay here's what I know about Andrew here's my guess as to what he'll type out as should we I guess we don't want to compare those results yet though I don't know what the flow is here that's going to be the reveal I think what we should do

So now there's, I counted, this was really like very quick count. I think while we were, the phone was ringing for you to pick up, Lauren, which was, I counted something like 110 questions. Does that seem like, is there any way, is this thing 110 questions long?

So it depends. I think the test that you guys took, you know, pages, the first like few pages of the test give everyone exactly the same questions. But once you start to score higher in certain types, I think they start eliminating questions of types that are sort of irrelevant to you i think i think it's maybe one of those so i think

i did have a sense towards the end that it was really kind of burrowing down into my soul yeah in a way that was like i said less and less like for instance when i was on the last page i got my life has been permeated by a sense of longing oh i got that one yeah i was like oh boy

um hard yes how about real bojack horseman vibes with that one right exactly it was it was uh

It felt like it was getting—it was sort of closing in on me, and it was sort of becoming more and more specific to what felt like it was more and more peering into my soul. So this is—you know, I'll say this, Lauren. This is a testament to maybe, weirdly, the accuracy of this thing. Since we've already actually taken the test, but we don't know the results, I thought it might be interesting to just run through a couple of the questions that seemed kind of notable. Andrew, you said you had highlighted a couple. Do you want to start? What was a question from this test that jumped out at you?

Yeah, and I don't know why. I only pulled four, and I don't know why I felt the need to pull these and discuss them. But I really related to this question. I am uncomfortable when people want an emotional response from me. This is something that has haunted me my entire life. It is so hard for me. It's not hard for me to compliment somebody, but it's impossible for me to compliment somebody when I think they're waiting for a compliment. It is it is this is one of the reasons why I hate singing happy birthday on the, you know, when at a birthday party when everybody is doing like there's there are moments in life when I am supposed to act a certain way. And I turn into that that seven year old in that birthday photo I showed you a couple of weeks ago, Luke, with my hands covering my ears as everybody's singing happy birthday to me.

I answered the same you did, but I think for slightly different reasons, which is I just think I'm sort of a bad person. Like you're – in other words, can you – what was the exact phrasing of the question again? I am uncomfortable when people want an emotional response from me. Maybe that's not actually the way I was trying to answer that one. I think I did say that, yes, I am uncomfortable because I think it's – what I'm uncomfortable with is any expectation of me on an emotional level from people because then I have to take my focus off of myself and focus it on someone else, which has sometimes historically been hard for me. So I think I said – I think I also said I was uncomfortable with that but maybe for a slightly different set of reasons or I might have been slightly misreading the question or what the intent of the question was.

Yeah, because I think if if I'm reading it correctly, I am surprised that you would say yes to that, because to me, like you have that in spades where I lack it. Like, again, this social situation calls for a certain amount of energy and a certain emotional response. And if it's if the social situation is Genevieve walks in the room and you notice that she got her haircut, you'll be like, hey, hey, you look really nice. It's a nice haircut. Whereas like I think I don't know if that's a perfect example of me avoiding it. But if I know somebody just got a haircut, I might not volunteer it weirdly because I feel like they want me to. Right. I do know that that's a.

pretty hard boundary for you is whenever there's a social expectation of something and a certain way of like reaction those are situations I've seen you try to really generally avoid so that you won't be called upon to have the reaction like when I threw that birthday party for you at Azteca and sprung extra for the fancy sombrero for everybody to sing happy birthday to you the look on your face told me you weren't enjoying it everybody in the restaurant singing happy birthday well i was zooming in so it's probably just a bad connection and a laptop and two margaritas both of which i drank by the way just uh here's an observation i'm having that i think

is kind of interesting and an overlap of your personalities both of your reactions to this question presuppose an awareness of the emotional first off the situation you're supposed to react to and second off an understanding of the reaction that you are quote unquote supposed to have some people go about the world having no idea what they're supposed to do or even missing in the first place the thing that they're supposed to react to

right so we're like in a reactive state but we know we're in the matrix but we know we're in the matrix yes whereas other people are just this is just my reaction and there's not maybe the awareness of the way you probably should be doing it and we're just doing it maybe not that way other people are just like this is in the words of the mandalorian a tv

show i recently watched this is the way yes it is interesting i i noticed that you guys are talking about that because i have the same thing so i'm always aware of what it is that i'm supposed

to be doing but see you lauren seem like you would have been a no on that question based on my knowing of you because you're very uh kind and i think that you are very good at at at reflecting back the version of yourself and or the reactions to other people that you intuit usually accurately

that they kind of need or want in that situation. That is true. And I will say that my external personalities, like the way I am out in the world, is very different than my aforementioned fiance, the version of me that he receives, because it is pretty exhausting, right? So like the real version of me is, is actually a little bit different. And I feel the same pressure that

you guys are talking about. It's been more than one person who's given me the feedback that they wish that I was, in my real life, the way that I am when I'm out in front of a bunch of people or with a bunch of people, because they think that person seems like a real hoot. Yes, I relate. The version of me that's not out there maybe can be less of a hoot at times. How about this question um it's this this is this is kind of complicated for a couple reasons one uh well i'll just read the question it's important to me that i am admired by others and many people do admire me now the first part of it for me was a slam dunk yes it's important it's important to me that people admire me and not for the i don't think consciously for the reasons like i don't care i don't need to drive a flashy car that's not the admiration that i need when i come down the street people thinking boy that guy's a that guy really must be somebody i feel like i need people to admire me in far more subtle ways like about how normal i am even though some of my jobs can verge on being kind of high profile or how relatable i am like i need people to admire me but for the reasons that i think are like the cool ways to be admired and then also the second part of the question many people do admire me for me to put down yes killed me because i i would say probably weirdly in this job we have i don't know how you define admiration but i would guess there are some list of people who admire us which is definitely i would rather die than admit that because that makes me think that i am getting high on my own supply what was that question like for

you andrew kind of similar i mean not the first part is an obvious or it seemed like kind of an obvious no to me i might have gone with no i might have gone with partly on that one it's not important to you that people admire you yeah it's we'll see and I have another question here that I'm going to bring up maybe we can even group these together a little bit here the next one on my list was these are the ones that I really struggled with in being completely as honest as I could be I want to be noticed but also it makes me uncomfortable I went with partly on that that might have actually been more of a yes and a partly on the one that you just described because in my heart of hearts i never sought out any kind of a job that would put me um in front of a microphone in front of a camera or or in any kind of job where strangers would know my name right which is where we find ourselves here like we have listeners who i've never met but they know who i

am uh which is three of them there are three of them and please like to make the acquaintance if you're one of the three listeners we don't know personally hit us up um but uh uh you know so So anyway, in my heart of hearts, like I just want to.

to be a behind the scenes person I'm not somebody who definitely needs to be noticed that's not how I feel yet and this is going to get very very specific here there is a instance in my life that happened just a few years before I did join TBTL and I think it's it's something I think about a lot and I feel like it's an important moment in my life we were starting a new show I was a producer we were starting a new show on New Hampshire Public Radio and there was some sort of a big donor event at the launch of the show to make the the stations you know big donors you guys are familiar with this from your work in live wire you know make the people who have donated a lot of money to the station feel very special so somebody had a house party it was a meet and greet we got to do you know kind of just casually stand in somebody's living room and tell them about this new show that we were working on and of course our host Virginia Prescott was the the main attraction we had hired her for the job and she's an incredibly eloquent person especially in these types of social situations it's me and her standing up there she's doing most of the talking at one point she mentions me the producer and gestures towards me and then goes on with her thing at the end of her presentation she says are there any questions and there's just like this long pause and nobody in in the living room says anything so i say because i'm uncomfortable with silence yes tell me more about this fantastic new producer you have or something along the lines of that mostly to make people laugh right but i always think about that moment because here is a moment where the attention was not on me i didn't need to i could have made any joke there but i did there was something in me that turned that specifically towards me even if it was in a self-deprecating or faux self-deprecating kind of way that was a long story i to me i bet you that was driven more

it's almost a meta commentary on your personality because you're so not about that that to me the joke if i knew you as many of those people in the room probably did like that i don't think my sense of that was not it was your subconscious trying to get a response that was going to make you feel okay in the world i think it was a joke that was predicated on how opposite from your Real true hopes and dreams That actually is To have the person publicly call you out And compliment you in front of

All of these people Maybe it was but I just I think maybe Virginia said to me later on something about Like she said something that I thought was Like kind of a window into my soul a little bit She's like you like having A little bit of attention or something and she wasn't dragging me It was just a moment anyway I don't know If that really is what I should hang my entire Personality on this um 45 seconds that happened uh 15 years ago but anyway uh when i'm asked asked a question like i want to be noticed but it also makes me uncomfortable i got to think really really

hard to answer that honestly i think lauren would you agree though that many people admire me and andrew and that is still a smaller number than it should be yeah i'll give you tens and that's it that is a i mean i'm not kidding that that was a very that was a very hard thing for me to answer yes to because it feels to me like the the objective reality of our job stuff is and my job stuff with livewire is that there would just have to be mathematically at least a handful of people who are like oh that person seems fun and interesting i admire that person now they have a false idea of me as a long list of x's will tell you but those people do i guess technically speaking admire me but for me to check yes in a box that says people admire me that again that was possibly the hardest question for me to answer yes because it may i think where my anxiety goes with that is as soon as i ever basically confirm something like that or or agree that that's the case that's the beginning of me becoming totally out of touch with reality and thinking that i'm like funny and cool and that people will want to listen to my podcast forever and the moment that i start getting like i said earlier i'm working to not say smelling my own farts because i know lauren's parents are probably listening and i don't want to offend them but like as soon as i admit that anything is possibly gone right or is notable about my job stuff that will be the beginning of the end that is for some reason where my anxiety and also just the fact that I think of it as real dumb luck that I'm getting to sit here talking to this microphone to the both of you. And the idea that somebody would be admiring of that at all makes me just feel really uncomfortable for some reason.

It's interesting. Well, first, I want to say I'm thrilled to hear you say that because I think I know what type you are.

You're just like, how much did you bet on in Vegas? How much did you put down on this? I feel like that's really where your interest lies is. Are we confirming your suspicions?

I have three guesses for both of you, and two of my guesses, Luke, are the type that I think you are. So I feel I feel pretty good. But also, you know, no, I want to save my comment on that until later, to be honest, because I think that's a really interesting question and a very important question to ask yourself.

Luke, did you have another question, Andrew, that you wanted to throw out? Yeah, this one I thought was pretty rich and kind of made me think a bit to deal with the fear I always have. OK, I'll continue this question in a second, but I love the vagueness of that and the the the to deal with the fear I always have. It doesn't even specify the fear. But to deal with the fear I always have, I'm as nice and warm as possible towards everyone. I gave a hearty yes to that because I think that really gets to it. Right. Like, what is the difference between being a nice person? And like, because I think a lot of people would say I am outwardly, you know, I think, you know, I'm self-aware enough to swallow my self-deprecation for a moment and say, I think outwardly people would look at me as being a pretty kind person, a pretty warm person. You have admirers, we get it. Sure, yeah, I have a lot of, I have actually exactly one more than you. But to deal with the fear I always have, I'm just like, yeah, maybe that's why, maybe that's why I'm a good person, because I'm dealing with the fear I always have.

Well, Andrew, I love that you brought that question up because that's, I think, what differentiates this test from other tests is that, yes, there's many – like many people are kind and warm towards others. But this test gets into the root of what is motivating you to be kind and warm and nice to others. So you can grow people in personality types like, oh, sure, yeah, you might be an open, thoughtful, warm person, but why? And so that's where Enneagram really kind of digs in, and it interrogates a little bit more. It gets a little darker.

How long has this been around? You might have mentioned that earlier, and I forgot about it. Since time immemorial.

Yeah, I honestly think it's quite old, but it has had a resurgent in the last couple of years. I mean, I don't know, though, because once I realized it was a little woo-woo, I thought, I'm not going to hurt. Yeah, I stopped digging. I said, I'm not going to do that to myself.

I put in for that question to deal with the fear I always have. Again, back to your point, Andrew. I like that it's a given that we all just have a low-level fear going on at all times. I'm as nice and warm as possible towards everyone. I put partly because the way my personality is, I think anyway, is that I really do try to, if I can put people at ease when I'm in a conversation with them, I try to be nice to people. I'm sure so that I'll get the response that I'm looking for, whether it's literally someone agreeing to something or it's just that person then going off in their day thinking, I liked that Luke Burbank fellow. I'm sure that I'm doing that, but also there is a point at which I turn, and maybe it's if I'm not getting that response. I'm as nice and warm as possible up to a point, and that is a real moving target for me. The moment at which – like I was in the parking garage of this building, and it's like – I don't know how the hell they fit all the cars in here. Well, I know how because each parking space is half of the size of a Fiat from the – remember the Le Car? You weren't probably around yet, Lauren, but there was a thing called the Le Car, which was like you could pick it up and carry it around. You can basically park one lay car per spot in this parking garage in this building and it's all enclosed and it's always a shit show when you're trying to leave because if you're if you come around a corner and there's another car somebody has to figure out an evasive maneuver in order to like back up but there's nowhere to back up to you know what I mean it's just like you're every time I get in and start leaving I'm like oh please God just let this be one of those days no one else is trying to drive in this parking garage. So the other day I come around a corner I'm just living my life As a person who needs to leave the parking Structure and this other car Comes around and we have to do this Very very like Close pass of each other Where we're both being super mindful of our mirrors And where everything's at and these concrete Columns and the guy who's in the car I can just see him muttering under his breath To his girlfriend about me and he's looking over at me Like I'm doing this to him

I won't go into detail but I had an incredibly similar situation in my car on a tiny Seattle street just a few weeks ago.

And I want to tell you that I was not as nice and warm as possible to him in my car as I started screaming at the top of my lungs at this guy. Do you think I'm effing doing this to you? This is I'm now pulling past him. And I will say I wasn't doing it as I was past him because I was afraid of the confrontation. I was mad that the confrontation was not possible because of the way that the car movement was. it was like by the time i realized what he was doing and i was furious i was already past him and i

i just didn't feel like stopping and get out of the car but i if i could have snapped my fingers and you know done something very bad to this guy in that moment i would have so anyway i guess

there is a point like because not because of the way he was driving his car but because of the way

you felt you were being judged by him yes like for like you know to deal with the fear i always have i'm as nice and warm as possible towards everyone well if i was a a hard yes on that even in that moment my guess would be i would be like oh i'm sorry buddy i'm you know i've been trying to still peacemake in this situation even though it wasn't really my fault it wasn't his fault it was nobody's fault there are times where I am not that is not the road that I take which

I gave myself a partly yeah in my situation which I don't have to go in the details just very similar to yours tiny street where cars are parked on both sides and only one car can pass and there's just like you know usually one car just pulls over but in this particular street near Green Lake there's nowhere to pull over but the one of us has to go in reverse and it just makes so much i guess i am telling the story it just makes so much more sense for this person to go in reverse but he just won't he just he just and finally he puts his car in reverse and then i'm kind of like pointing like i'll pull over here if you don't need this spot and i'll let you pass but instead he just saw me as being the bully that made him back up and i could see him being like really irritated at me through the windshield and i would say that my feeling i wouldn't say that it was pure there was some anger in there but it was also i also just sort of felt like

frustrated and misunderstood. Lauren, can you explain your theory on who gets to be on the sidewalk during a pandemic? I thought this was interesting the other night. This has to do with

right of ways. Yes, I do. I have a very basic theory that I've communicated to no one, but it is a standard I hold everyone to in my pocket of Southeast Portland. But basically, it's a simple rule. Whoever is farther along on the block has the right to the sidewalk. So if I am 20 feet onto the block and someone else is 40 feet onto the block, I move and walk in the street and the other person gets to stay in the sidewalk. I will say there are exceptions. So if there's someone pushing a child in a stroller or walking along with children, something that would make their departure off the sidewalk more difficult then they have the right of way 100% of time but mostly I think whoever is farther along on that portion of the block gets to keep the block

Am I a bad person for not walking in this? I'm just passing people on the sidewalk these days

Depends Honestly, if you have a

mask on, I think you're all good But you were saying, Lauren i don't want to put you on blast we can cut all of this out and also by the way if you're playing bingo at home that just you got a space uh because we have tbio bingo cards now lauren that are for each spot is something that we say all the time on the show including we can cut all this out but like um i don't want to put you on blast but but so we really can't cut this out but you were saying how if it's night time and you're walking your dog argus and there's no one around you'll have the mask down right which which i don't think anyone can judge you over so that also might impact your decision making on and also the sidewalks are pretty narrow in this part of portland um and maybe it's different where you're living andrew yeah maybe um but yeah in the

examples i'm giving him i mean i'm i'm masked up almost all the time now outside unless i'm really not passing anybody and if i am passing somebody i usually have the mask hanging off my ear so if i see somebody who's about to pass me i mask up then i think you're good yeah okay i think if in

a non-mask situation you have to exit onto the street which you know there isn't very much traffic because i'm very neighborhood vibes up here um there's not as much traffic so a lot of people don't wear masks and if you're not wearing a mask both parties are not wearing masks then

that's when my rule applies yeah sure definitely um when maybe one final one before we get to the predictions and then the actual results um this one i just was like i was an immediate yes on it and it but it made me it made me kind of like wish i was wired differently and it was it really bothers me bothers me when people don't say thank you because like real you know when you do something nice for someone or when you're helpful in some way it obviously should be for the sake of being kind to other people it should not be something where there's this response that that if you don't get it makes you feel like upset in some way like that there's an outcome attached to it or a hoped for outcome but i will say that like i will go to the absolute ends of the earth for people you know in certain contexts i will happily pick up the check i will happily do a whole variety of helpful what people would say would be nice things but if all of a sudden if it feels underappreciated if it feels like somebody doesn't say thank you

I go from feeling magnanimous and generous or helpful to being so resentful so fast.

That was – I don't – maybe you're right. These were dynamic questions because that – the question was do you resent it when people don't say thank you? Yeah, basically. I resent it when people don't say thank you. I did not – I don't think I got that question, which is weird because that seems like that you're really homing in on my personality when you ask me that question because I'm the same way. And I think it also gets to that to some of the other things we've already talked about, like what are what are the motivations? Lauren, you mentioned that, too, that this test gets at. Like, why are you the way you are? And that one is a big one for me. And I think, again, traffic is a perfect example. Like, I will let you I will let you, you know, cut in in front of me in a lane. But I better get that wave. I better get that wave.

Well, or like the funny thing for me is like when it comes to picking up the check or something, if I if I pick up the check. And whoever I picked up the check with or for or whatever, if they say thank you, I'm immediately embarrassed and I'm just like – I'm like, how dare you even thank me for this? Like I go from being like – like it's too much for me if people are appreciative. This is why I'm impossible because if somebody is like overly thankful, then I'm like – I'm super embarrassed and I'm just like, please, it's nothing. But if somebody is not thankful enough or not thankful at all or takes it as a given, I'm kind of like – the rest of the night I'll be like, oh, I'm really interested. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Wow. That's interesting. There's just no winning with me is really what it comes down to. And maybe that's because of how I answered yes to this. Penultimate is the second from the last. What is the third from the last? Triultimate? I don't know. The triultimate? The third from the end question, I secretly fear deprivation and being without the nicer things in life. Could you find a questionnaire that dialed me in harder than that?

Did you get that one, Andrew? I think I gave that a partly because everything is relative. Now, you're a strong yes on that.

I think you give that a no.

Well, I know that I'm somebody who says, like, you know, like, as long as I have the basics around me, like, I'm happy being alone. I don't need really fancy surroundings like my tastes, I think, are maybe more humble than you. But I do like this doesn't really get to the question, but like I do like having things and my creature comforts. I mean, I guess everybody does, but like it would bother me if I couldn't create my exact, you know, I think what I what I want is a slightly lower bar, but I do want it and need it. You know what I mean? Like I couldn't live in a yurt. Let's put it that way.

Right. I just see you as somebody who has – and I admire this. I've seen you walk away from situations that financially could have enriched you because it's like, oh, I have enough or I would rather not have another plate spinning or I don't like the terms of – I don't like the terms that would come along with this particular deal, whatever that looks like, whether it's professional, personal, otherwise, as it relates to – I just think you're less driven by money than I am because you feel – I'm not trying to speak for you, but I feel like you and Genevieve have a really lovely life together and you guys are comfortable. You don't need for anything, but you're not out like plugging an emotional hole by going on researching the newest, greatest, whatever this thing is at 11 o'clock on a Tuesday night the way I might be because of how I need to constantly be getting – what is the newest, nicest knife set even though I don't cook?

Yeah, yeah. I could have gone no there. I think I went partly, again, I was trying, and this is where I get in my head about, like, how much is the question, how much are the questions meta questions that, you know, the way you answer actually says something about you in the actual answering of the question, which I don't know, I don't know how we can even go down that road, but I was just trying to be honest and maybe, like, maintain some humility.

Okay, Lauren, let me start by asking you, what did you get on this test?

Wait, I'm sorry, and I know that we have a little bit of a time constraint, but I need to know your answer to one question, Luke. Oh, okay, sure. I'm pretty tough. Oh, I put yes on that. Yeah, I put a strong no. I just wasn't sure.

Wait, what? You think you're not? I guess you define tough, right?

Yeah, well, yeah. No, I'm not tough at all.

I'm just a turd out there. I don't think, see, I don't think of tough as being, I'm going to try to fight you in a bar. I think, to me, I read tough as being somebody who has figured out a way to get through this frigging life, you know? Whatever that looks like, through whatever means. Like, just think about Game of Thrones. Not everybody is swinging a sword or riding a dragon, but Varys is tough to me.

Do you think, Sam, do you think this is weird that we're now just doing this quiz on the Game of Thrones characters? But do you think that Samwell, not Samwell, Samwise, that's the right. Yeah, no, Tarly. Yeah, Sam. What is it? Sam Tarly? Tarly. Did you watch Game of Thrones, Lauren? I haven't watched a single episode. Okay. Anyway, do you think that Sam is tough? I'm one of those. I would say in a quiet way because to me, to me, real toughness is about figuring out how to make it work over the long term. Like there are people – I mean he does – he's able to keep him and Gilly and their kid alive. And he sort of makes his way through that world, a very dangerous world, and is, like, alive at the end of the show, right? Remember, right?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's just interesting. I don't think of myself as a tough person. I feel like I'm somebody who's out there just, like, wearing my emotions on my sleeve, and I'm just kind of a big blob of emotion. And, you know, things go my way, but I don't think of myself as being tough.

See, I put down tough but not because I can be outwardly aggressive. I put tough just because I'm still here. That makes it sound like I think I'm a survivor of something, but I don't know. I guess toughness, that's a weird definition, but it's funny that I think of me and you as both being tough, but just for different reasons. Well, thanks. What did you put down for Am I Tough, Lauren?

Gosh, that's one. It would have been a long time ago. I think there's questions that I would care more or less about, and I think my perception of me being tough, I would say I care less about. I would say I'm probably, I would put mostly tough.

I think I'm pretty tough. I get tough vibes from you.

What? Okay, so, like, I don't know the best way to sort of unpack this at the end or get into the results kind of thing, but, like, do you want to describe what the different kinds of results can be? Is there a way to do that without taking up too much time, or should you just tell us what you got for yourself and what that means?

Here's what I think I'll do. I'm going to just describe kind of what possible results you're going to get because your results are nonsensical. So, like, even if you would have seen them, you would not have probably known what they mean. And then I think that we should kind of do a little reading about, like, I'll describe what that type is that you maybe scored highest on, and you guys can tell me if you think that feels accurate or not. And then I thought something else that might be kind of fun to do is to look up the compatibility of your two types.

Oh, wow. That's interesting. Okay. Buckle up. Probably more relevant to my life than Andrew's, but sure. Luke, do you think before we do this—

I mean, I want your compatibility together. Oh, I was thinking for our relationships.

Oh, right. That's where this whole thing started. How quickly I forget.

Let me jump in here, though, Luke, and say, if you don't mind, let's do this. Let's pause for a quick second and take our second break here if we have any sponsored messages, and then we'll come back and get these results.

Okay.

I'm not aware of too many things I know what I know if you know what I mean

Please, please let my personality type be new bohemian. I answered yes for would you shoot a rubber band at the sun. So I think I'm on the road.

Stars, man. I think it's stars. Stars, dang it. Well, actually, though, the sun is a star, so you nailed it.

Thank you. I don't know what that dynamic, what that little interaction said about us, but I guess we're going to find out in a moment. Also, since this has taken a minute, but I think in a good way, we'll have to push the email segment for yet another day. But if you're not everyone, we will read some emails tomorrow because I will never miss a chance to gloat about how something that I saw is not an illusion or not a, you know, I'm not seeing things. So anyway, OK, where did we leave things off? What are we going to do here, Andrew? How should we get through this?

So I think you have some – well, actually, Lauren, that's a question for you. You have some predictions for us and then some analysis, right? Okay.

Yes. So I'm going to describe what you're – how you're typed an Enneagram. Basically, there's numbers one through nine.

Okay.

And you'll get one number that's your primary type. And, Luke, I didn't tell you this when we were out because, again, I didn't want to sound like the crazy Enneagram lady. And I don't know if we'll be able to fully get into it today, but you'll have your main type and then you have what's called a wing, which is your secondary type.

Okay.

And your wing has to be a number that's right. It's on either side in numerical order of your main type. So, for example, if you're a type five, your wing has to be four or six. So the way you would say your type would be I'm a five wing six or I'm a five wing four.

Okay.

So all the numbers have different personality types. So basically, you know, you have your main, which is sort of like the primary driver of how you comport yourself in the world. And then your wing is sort of your secondary driver. So like, you know, it's a strong part of you, but it's maybe not as strong as your main type. And a lot of times they interplay together. So you're kind of a combination of two types. But I feel like for simplicity, we should maybe focus on just your guys' primary types.

Okay. Okay.

So this isn't going to mean anything to the listeners. Oh, go ahead, Luke.

Well, I was just going to ask, what are you?

I am a three wing two.

Meaning?

Well, I'm not going to get into that because my prediction for you, Luke, is that you are a type three as well.

Whoa.

I think you are either a type 3-wing 4 or a type 3-wing 2. And my third guess for you is that you're a type 7-wing 8.

Dang, those seem really far apart, but let's find out together. I have this printout that I am not just playing this up for the show. I held a piece of paper up against my computer screen so that I couldn't see what was on there other than the button that says print. So I'm about to turn this up. So your first prediction is 3-wing 2?

They're not in any order. It's actually really hard to type people, so I'm not ranking these. These are just, I think.

Either a three or a seven.

I think you're a three or a seven, and the wings will score pretty high, too.

Okay, so here we go. Let me give myself a little. I am a, I don't know why that did that, but I am a seven wing eight. Masterson, that is pretty spot on. that you got the 7-ness of it. What does that mean? What's wrong? What's broken about me? How do I fix it?

That's interesting that you're a 7 because I was feeling really strongly that you were a type 3. Where did you score a type 3? Were you up there with type 3?

Let's see. Would it be my other type? So type 7 was 13.3, and then the next up was a type 3. Lauren? Wow. Dang.

Yes, I'm not surprised by that.

You are not, and you're not crazy. You had it exactly right. I was a 7, and it was close. It was 13.3 to 12.7, so I get the sense it was almost a coin toss between 7 and 3.

And the test is good. I never tell people. When you get your test results, it's just a guide. So I actually think, let's read a little bit about type 7 and a little bit about type 3, and honestly, Luke, just do a gut check which one feels more right.

Okay.

Okay. So Enneagram type seven is called the enthusiast. They are the busy, variety-seeking type. They are spontaneous, versatile, acquisitive, and scattered. Type sevens are extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. They're playful, high-spirited, and practical. They can misapply their many talents, becoming overextended, scattered, and undisciplined. They constantly seek new and exciting experiences, but can become distracted and exhausted by staying on the go. They typically have problems with impatience and impulsiveness. At their best, they focus their talents on worthwhile goals, becoming appreciative, joyous, and satisfied. So the Type 7's basic fear, so kind of that motivating fear. Sharks. How did it know? How did it know? So basic fear of a type 7 is of being deprived or being in pain. And so your basic desire is to be satisfied and content and to have your needs fulfilled.

That is the most accurately I've ever been described by – I'll throw therapist in there. I'm talking like sentient trained humans who I pay hundreds of dollars to. That is, that like what, and I'm not somebody who goes in for any kind of, you know, astrology, etc. Maybe it's confirmation bias or me hearing what I want to hear. I mean, a lot of that is not something I want to hear. That sounded like you, somebody just studied my brain and my behaviors and just wrote up an accurate description of all the things that go on for me. That's crazy.

That's wild. That's how I felt as well when I got my type.

I was like, oh boy. Without reading it all, should we talk about what a three is? Because you were also saying that Luke might be around a three. I was pretty close to being a three.

I still think there's some very type three parts of Luke. Okay, so type three is the achiever. So they're success-oriented, adaptable, excelling, driven, and image conscious. So they're self-assured, attractive, and charming. They're ambitious, competent, and energetic. They can be status conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness.

And alcoholism, which is like workaholism, but...

Makes you talk funny.

So at their best, they're self-accepting, authentic, and everything they seem to be. They're role models who inspire others.

Well, I will just say I have many of the negative attributes of that as well, or things that, you know, may not be serving me great, as my therapist would say. But I think that the seven was more described my internal workings. I love it. And the other stuff, you know, about being whatever, the other stuff that definitely there was a lot from the three that resonated with me as well. I know that we are – you're going to have to go in a minute here, Lauren, because you have your actual job to do. So should we move on to Andrew and what your prediction for Andrew is?

Yes, and also I can stay on a few minutes later. I just messaged my team and said I'd be a few minutes late to that meeting.

Yeah, this is important work.

So I have a little bit of flex. Thank you. This is my task.

It's classic three with the two wings. I was going to say, you're like a seven. You're overextending yourself here.

No, she's worried about what the TBTL listeners think of her. We have to end the show early. You're right.

Okay. So, Andrew, my predictions for you. Okay. First off, I told Luke this. But the types that I think you are are some of my personal favorite types to be friends with.

There you go.

So I think that you are a type nine, a type two, or a type 6?

In no particular order. He's a Cleveland 9, but an LA 2. That should be the show title.

Okay, I'll give you your wings as well. I think you're a 6-wing 7, so that would mean that you and Luke would have some type overlap. Or you're a 2-wing 1 or a 9-wing 1. So I think that you have some secondary 1 influence. I have a strong prediction of that for you.

All right, drum roll, please.

I get to call you Maestro for a change You know what I think the battery might be dying on this one Let me test it I'm actually I'm going to play it from here though I'm taking this seriously I'm playing it off my actual computer So Lauren what is your final prediction You threw a lot of numbers out there But if you had to say what you think is the most likely one What do you think Andrew's is going to be

Honestly I'm stumped for Andrew I was listening very intently Throw a dart Because of the way he was, um, two.

Two. Okay. So you said I was going to be a seven and I was in fact a seven. Your prediction is maybe a two for Andrew. What is it, Andrew? I'm a six wing five.

Oh, okay. Six wing five.

Mm-hmm. So it was also just a magnetic field song. I was just wondering.

I thought, I couldn't tell if you were doing something awesome or if it was a mistake.

It's a mistake. What number does that give me? Six wing five. What does that mean?

I'm a six wing five, but if you want my top two, Lauren, I'm a type six and then I'm a type one.

Okay, so type one was up there pretty high. Okay, I feel good about that. Okay, so type six, and I'm going to be honest, you're probably not going to like this because all of my friends who are type sixes hated to hear that they were type six. Why?

Well, we're about to find out.

Yeah, I love sixes. They're some of my favorite people. Okay. Type six is the loyalist. Okay. The committed, security-oriented type. Engaging, responsible, anxious, and suspicious. The sixes are reliable, hardworking, responsible, and trustworthy. They are excellent troubleshooters. They foresee problems and foster cooperation, but can also become defensive, evasive, and anxious. running on stress while complaining about it. They can be cautious and indecisive, but also reactive, defiant, and rebellious. They typically have problems with self-doubt and suspicion. At their best, they're internally stable and self-reliant, courageously championing themselves and others. So type six basic fear is of being without support and guidance and their basic desire is to have security and support i will say go ahead go ahead

oh no you react give me your reaction i was going to say i don't uh looking for guidance listen i don't i don't love it but i i think it's pretty accurate like i can associate with almost everything there the one thing that stood out like a sore thumb that i don't think i'm good at is championing myself or others or saying the word championing. Those are two things that type sixes are supposed to be good at that I'm not. So that was the one thing that sort of stood out. But like, you know, anxiety driven, wanting security. We're talking about money before Luke and like kind of wanting the nicer things in life. I was going to say that like nothing is worth more to me than knowing I won't be broke in the future. You know, like I would never say

sacrifice my quality of life now for something better and nicer if it meant that I can't have my quality of life now later on. You know what I mean? Right. This is why I'm going to be living with you guys in 10 years. Yeah, that's not part of the plan. But anyway, yeah. So what were you going to say, Lauren, before I jumped in there, though? Well, I was going to say, you know,

at their best, sixes courageously champion themselves and others. But every type kind of has a scale of health basically so basically it's saying at your peak version of you as a type six you would be courageously championing yourself so you're not always doing that but

the best version of yourself would do that and i also the the loyalty thing and just being somebody who's you know loyal and and and commits to things and follows through like that really really seems like you to me and that's a hugely positive quality that I do not have like the the last newsletter that came out which was you I think Andrew was saying to me in your typical fashion you were like I'm just out of ideas I'm gonna do this silly thing more people have been telling me including people we work with that they thought it was so funny like that newsletter is happening however many years later now and getting opened at a shockingly high rate you'll appreciate this Lauren working in the branding industry like and in terms of engagement Andrew the engagement with our newsletter is crazily high and it's because Andrew you write it every single week and it's always funny and like you you just you you follow through when you say you're going to do something and you're very loyal I feel like you're very loyal to me and us in this show you're very loyal to Genevieve like those are great qualities that I really admire thanks yeah I'll take all of that

I'll also give myself even one more one uh positive thing of the six is I like the troubleshooting thing because i don't i i do like the fact that i like troubleshooting often it might be in the computer realm and be like well let's get into this let's figure this out let's knock off the things that um we know are not the problem and then like get to the problem but it's not always computer related i think just kind of in life and in work i do that too so good okay guys i need to

read you so i typed out compatibility between six and seven and this is kind of wild okay Both Enneagram sixes and sevens are mental types, and there can be a great deal of mental stimulation in this pairing. These two types offer many areas in which they reinforce each other and some areas in which the strengths of one another counterbalance the limitations of the other. Sevens are usually entertaining and tend to lift the spirits of sixes. Both are quick mentally and often quite witty. They enjoy bantering with each other, verbally sparring, and seeing how absurd or funny they can become as they push each other to more outrageous limits. Sevens are particularly good at generating new ideas, while sixes are particularly good at mastering the practical steps that are necessary to get things done.

Holy shit. That's really good. That's very much us. Every FunDrive meeting we have. Every TBTL I've done.

Anyway, I'll send you guys a link to this, but that's, I think we've had you guys.

Whoa, that description of us together is, I mean, unless it's like one of those things where everybody's like, you have somebody in your family who wears boots for a living and they're all just like in a fit. Like that relationship really does describe like Luke often the outside the box idea generator. Me just like nose to the grindstone. Like, okay, how do we get it done? Like a lot of that shit.

I definitely think, yeah, I mean, I don't want to be, like, I'm not, like, exclusively the person who comes up with the ideas, but I know what will happen is we'll start batting an idea around, and we'll end up with something we like, and then immediately the work of making it happen is turned over to Andrew. like how do we do that thing that seems like it would be fun but takes a lot of like actual emailing and following up on so i i definitely think that that the way that that describes our our working relationship and also our just genuine enjoyment of talking to each other we'll do entire episodes when we're not even recording yet and then we'll be like well an hour and a half later we should probably start recording and do the actual show so that like i think very much feels to me like it describes our dynamic talk about the banter yeah and just

getting sillier and sillier I mean that's literally what we do for a living that's delightful wow well Lauren

this was a big success I think at least it was a big success in that it felt to me like somehow this ancient pagan ritual that you've brought to the show has really hit on some things for us this is amazing

well I'm glad that the results felt kind of accurate because and I appreciate you guys approaching it with a sense of openness because sometimes It can be like, oh, but I think it's really fun. I'm going to send you this link to the way.

you guys interact with each other because there's more to it that i think you guys would get a kick

out of reading that's hilarious wow well uh lauren thank you so much for um taking time out of your schedule today to do this and also for pushing back your meeting yeah of course of course i'm

just going to talk uh naming options for a high-rise office building in uh oh do you know

that i told andrew about that project when we weren't recording it wasn't on the air though No, no. But I was like, I was just like, I'm amazed at the thought and the levels and layers of things that go into modern life. Like the idea that your company has been retained to come up with a good name for this office building in Cupertino. Like, I just think that's incredible.

It is. And I'm about to have an hour long meeting about it.

Good. Go with puns. You can never go wrong with puns, Lauren. Just remember that when naming a building.

Perfect. Thank you. I'm going to ask the question that the listeners already have on their minds, Lauren, which is when are you launching your personality quiz based podcast? Because even though I don't think we need launching, okay, we don't need more podcasts in the world except that one. I feel like I would listen to you talk about this shit endlessly because you're so like analytical about it. I love it.

It's a passion of mine. You know, if the listeners desire it, they can, I don't know, maybe we should set up an email address and they can, we can chat. I could chat with the 10s about their Enneagram types. I don't know. If there's a demand, there's a way.

All right. If people are interested in that, they can email me, andrew at tbtl.net, and then I will try to figure something out.

Yeah, we'll get some going. It can be part of – what was the name of our company we were launching, Andrew? Disposable Media. It can be part of the Disposable Media empire. It can be a spinoff podcast.

Oh, I can't wait. That's perfect. You know, that name right there, you guys nailed it.

That's coming from a professional who's got to go name an office building. So thank you, Lauren.

Bye, Lauren, my wicked friend. All right. Take care, guys. Bye.

Have fun drawing down the moon. I think that's an actual book about witchcraft that Margo Adler, NPR's Margo Adler, wrote

that was a bestseller. That's awesome. All right. Well, Luke, we are supposed to go out with a song by Steve Clayton. Oh, yeah. Perfect. The name of the song is Phantom Lover, and I'll get it going here.

I also tested high for phantom lover status By the way It was a different test I took online recently So this is the perfect song Well alright, hey thanks for doing that Andrew Thanks for being game, that was really fun And kind of, you know, a little mind blowing there At the end

That was really interesting I just hope that we didn't do that exact thing at some point Because I just know I've taken that damn quiz before I don't want to get an email from somebody who just said You know you did this on March of last year

No, you know who enjoyed it? The Heiserheads our six new listeners refugees from the Tony Kornheiser land so anyway alright thanks for listening everyone we will be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for you we'll be checking in from Oklahoma City until then stay safe have a great Tuesday take care of yourselves take care of each other may all your Enneagram results be exactly what you were looking for and please remember no mountain too tall and good luck to all

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Power out.