Muse

Chase, what's your favorite thing to snack on when you're jamming out to music? Um, I don't know. Everything's good. Okay, well, we're streaming live on Bagel Bites TV, so can you say Bagel Bites? Oh, yeah. Bagel Bites. Okay, great, but can you say it in a sentence? Like, I'm Chase Dreams, and when I'm jamming out to music, I love to eat Bagel Bites. I'm Chase Dreams, and when I'm jamming out to music, I love to eat Bagel Bites. Okay, great. Congrats on whatever it is you do. Thanks.

T-B-T-L! TVTL coming across the airwaves full of love through the sky.

There is one more thing. The network has received quite a few angry phone calls from older viewers about our theme song.

Really? I think our theme song's sassy.

Laughter, a sure sign of a good time.

A year ago, this is exactly what Greg Kinnear was doing, but now he has an Oscar for Sliding Doors 3, colon, Jingle All the Door. Things are going to start happening to me now.

to a little bit of a slow start there i was i was down tying my shoes i ran i got i got trapped in that world where one shoe was tighter than the other which i guess i'm like a four-year-old child in that i really hate that so i try to tighten up the other shoe but then to even them out but then it was the other one was too tight so then i had to just go back to square one with both of them and um while i was doing that then me just the act of me standing up was enough to leave me feeling a little bit winded uh speaking of the wind oh my goodness i was out for a little jog this morning uh testing the healing properties of sweat on a an open forehead wound if you missed yesterday's show i took a tumble um and banged my forehead and so i've been been dealing with that and i read on the internet that sweat is actually pretty good for helping you heal a wound are you sure that's what they said on ass chiefs i gave it a shot this morning and let me tell you i don't know if it's healing it but it's certainly stinging it so something's happening anyway there There are so many huge tree limbs that are down in the streets and covering the sidewalks here in Portland. Trees. They're all around us, but who gives a s***? I think it's not a great system when you have a lot of trees that have, you know, foliage on them, when the trees are in bloom and then also covered in snow. So those two events are not usually happening unless, you know, you get snow on April 11th. So it's a wild scene out there. There were power lines that were down. It's a whole thing. But we seem to be on track here. The Internet's working. We have power here at the Broadcast Center. And we're ready to bring you episode 3660 in a collector series.

Let the fun begin.

You know, podcasts are the future of show business, as we say on this show a lot. We are living in the midst of a podcast boom. Which means there are now folks doing podcasts that they're presenting as investigative reporting, but they're just taking a magazine article and just kind of reading the magazine article over the course of multiple episodes. Now, of course, we refer to a lot of news articles on this show. We try to attribute if we can. But this is a growing trend. We're going to talk about one example of that that's getting a lot of grief on the Internet this week. Also, Major League Baseball is miking up players while they're playing in the game. You know, you've got to eat that microphone. Which seems relatively new to me in that it's not someone sitting in the dugout. It's someone actively playing in the game being interviewed. So if you think about, like, football, they put mics on the players sometimes. Like, one player will be miked up. but you're just you can hear what that player is saying uh you know as a viewer if they decide to grab some funny or interesting things but we're talking full-on interviews with people who are involved in playing major league baseball in the moment they're being interviewed it's uh really quite something so we'll talk about that and then time permitting although this story may get pushed again because it's not exactly the most timely but i do think it's a very interesting

story analyzing the snoring patterns of some major cartoon characters courtesy of mel magazine so uh if we have time we'll get to that if not we'll um we'll bump it to tomorrow we would never bump the appearance of this young man the longest running cobro of the show maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships he's asked me to introduce him this week with positive

affirmative affirmations and i'm happy to oblige he can keep trying even though he feels sad that

he missed the winning kick he is andrew walsh and he is joining me right now from the sweet cream district of seattle washington good morning my friend good morning i don't know why i feel worse instead of better no you can keep trying that's what the kid said even though you missed the kick

yeah you can keep trying that's i think that's a method he can keep trying even though he feels

sad that he missed the winning kick i um thought of something today during your intro luke i was doing that thing where um i was listening to you today it's a novel concept oh and you mentioned

i'm actually surprised to hear that on today of all days because we are dealing with a new piece of technology or more like a a fill-in piece of technology to make the show work and um and you You did some, you and our friend Eric, the Viking Stromsa, did some amazing last second kind of tweaking. So it's all working. But I would guess if there was one day when you were really just like staring at the equipment, it'd be like today.

Oh, yeah. No, I am. And, you know, I kid. I usually am listening. On the rare occasion, I might have to fire off an email or do some last minute production while you're talking. But I like to listen to my friend Luke. But you mentioned again your fall, which I want an update on that and how your head is doing. But we did point out during yesterday's show that you were using somewhat softened language. Like you said, you had a tumble and bonked your head as opposed to saying I had a fall and put a gash in my forehead or something that would be more violent. Because you're doing that to keep everybody calm and to maybe downplay any damage.

Well, not even downplay it, but just our listeners, and this is amazing of them, are very concerned about us. And let's be honest, me in particular, because I'm probably the more reckless of the two of us. I'm the bad boy of public radio like Elvis Mitchell. And so it's not that I was like trying to downplay it so that I was describing inaccurately. I was trying to downplay it so that it would maybe cause the listeners less stress.

Right. And I have another word as we, I don't know how much we will be talking about this, but as we continue to talk about it, here's another good word that kind of rounds the edges a little bit. Noggin. Because I was going to ask you, hey, Luke, how's your noggin? I mean, how much better is it than, like, I had a fall and kind of gash into my head versus, oh, I had a tumble, bonked my noggin. Like, that is, oh, it's like a cartoon.

You fell and slammed your brain casing into an end table. Would be the opposite of what we're trying to say. Oh, yeah, you know what, Andrew? It was the middle of the night. I tumbled and I bonked my noggin. Yeah, you bonked your noggin. I mean, that sounds like it happened to a Teletubby. a british teletubby had a tumble and bonked its noggin i had a tumble and i bonked my noggin and uh what's the jack and jill it's it's a real jack and jill kind of situation although what is that actually jack fell down and broke his crown is there like a more i feel like if you dig into any i know it's not that's not grim like as in it's not from the brothers grim but i feel like if you dig into the jack and jill thing i bet you that there's some more like dark

stuff going on yeah like um ring around the rosy style totally yeah yeah origins what is going on with your noggin though how you feeling today are you still glad that you didn't get stitches i

assume you are well i mean that was the medical advice i don't know if i'm glad or not um but it's a it's i'm doing much better i'm happy to report i was so what i did was because i'd been using just the supply of band-aids that i had here um which was like i had a couple of different boxes but they weren't i don't know they weren't very specialized and i i didn't uh really uh so i i basically went to the cvs and i bought a whole host of different kinds of bandages because i realized that if i'm gonna have this thing on my forehead for a while and i am gonna have to do at least some amount of outward facing things i should and by outward facing i mean literally just going out in public like right now it's still at a point where it's a bit distracting for people it's so much better than it was yesterday andrew by the way like it it's like it's rapidly healing which i'm very happy about good but i wanted to find a band-aid that would be that would just match my skin tone like the most because at the doctor people had put a um like a medical dressing on it which i then had to take off to like put some like neosporin and whatever stuff on it but that was white which was the worst yeah it was like i look like uh you know i just came back from the war or something so i wanted to find a flesh toned bandage that was the closest to my flesh tone and so my plan was just to buy a whole variety of different ones that were all kind of you know i guess you would say caucasian person

flesh colored or whatever what it is albanian colored god if only they sold an albanian

i mean with philbin down i feel like it'd be again be just me douche coup other belushi isn't

there a new pop star didn't you say that there is dualipa yeah so i mean i guess you know god

doesn't take down a philbin without opening a dualipa we're talking about the maintaining the

famous albanian there's always it's like energy there's always this same conservation of albanians

conservation of albanians is that but um so and i also was trying to figure i'm sorry to be so detailed about this but the other thing is you know so this this cut that i have on my noggin from the bonking and the tumbling um i it's i want the um band-aid that's covering it to i don't want the sticky part of the band-aid going on to the part of where the cut is because that's not going to be good for the cut i don't want to be ripping the adhesive off and on that you know what i mean so i had to try to also find something that had a large enough amount of the gauze that's inside a band-aid to cover everything in other words i needed the sticky part to be on what was not part of the injury so i but it's you know i'm standing in the aisle at the cvs so it's like i don't i'm not going to take these out of the packaging and try to analyze them so i just ended up buying like a ludicrous andrew i don't want anyone to get hurt certainly anyone in my close circle of family and loved ones but if anybody hearing this knows me like irl and you have an injury i have you covered i have so many different kinds of bandages now and i think i figured out the one that's working the best for me and you'll even maybe get to see it because we're having a meeting you and i are having a meeting later today oh yeah about the thon i don't know if you want that to be on zoom or not but what i have that you know like the kind of bandage that i guess i'll call it for lack of a better term a butterfly bandage but it's it's the kind that just has kind of two it has a a couple of long strips coming off the top and the bottom so it's like a square with or if you were to turn on its side it would look kind of like an h okay can you visualize that kind of yes i can bandage absolutely i don't i don't know i guess maybe is that for like some kind of appendage like so that it can wrap around it more effectively i feel like you're

like a joint right like a knuckle or a joint is how yeah or maybe even an elbow if you had a real

big one yeah so i think maybe that's what the point of that particular adhesive pattern is but what i figured out was if i cut the wings off of that and then i turn it on its corner so it's like a diamond so what i have now what i was using for live wire yesterday was this like modified diamond shaped band-aid right between my eyes which honestly didn't look uncool it sort of

sounds like who's the rapper who put the diamond between his eyes oh a slick rick rick the ruler

rick the ruler but no somebody oh you mean little uzi vert the guy that got the 20 million dollar exactly i thought you meant sorry i thought you meant the eye patch which rick the ruler also has diamonds on his eye patch so yeah but he doesn't have does he have a diamond in his head

though no he doesn't and paul simon has them in the soles of his shoes am i right about that right

exactly but those aren't surgically implanted those are surgically implanted into the shoes

oh okay but he wasn't wearing them at the time that's weird okay no but this is by the way this

is um way too inside baseball oh i do want to talk about inside baseball with this mic situation but so remember how yesterday you asked me well how much stuff do you have to do for cbs or other things where people are going to see your face and i was like mercifully i actually happen to be in a small window of time where i don't have to do a whole lot where anyone can really see me so this is as far as unfortunate events go this is a okay time for it to have happened so yesterday i go on livewire which we zoom because you know it's a lot of people involved in things and i am reminded that this is the first week that we broadcast these livewire zooms as social media content Oh, yeah, I think you mentioned that Either to me or maybe on the show But what's happened is This was supposed to start three weeks ago They're always trying to push that rock up that hill Which I respect We live in an internet-driven world I understand it, but it's like i don't know man like there's some social media that i feel like is worth everyone's time and then there's some just like spitting in the wind and i feel like a lot of companies and organizations and it's sometimes hard to know when it's this is driving behavior amongst the potential listeners and when we're just kind of like checking a box and so it like a few weeks ago we got an email saying hey we want to start playing these the some of this stuff you're recording we're gonna start playing it as zazzy internet stuff like on instagram and we're like okay cool but then of course so the last two mondays elena and i the uh other person on live were both forgot that this was supposed to be happening so we were both not as you would say camera ready we're just kind of like in our sweats or you know just kind of like feeling or i was in hawaii on a terrible internet connection so it keeps getting pushed and then of course after it got pushed the second time it was like who is the most mad i've ever seen the producers at us me and elena which they're never mad at us but they're like this is not a big ass this has been specified and clarified we got to do this next week so there was like no not doing it yesterday and of course i completely forgot about it until we turned on zoom and i was like of all the weeks i got this big i got this little i got the off-brand little oozy vert going on so if you see me on instagram with a band-aid on my forehead that's that's how that ended up happening but you know what andrew it'll get four likes one of them will be from me

so uh job done um yeah part of me wants to um part of me wants to dissect that from a producer standpoint but also i've given you a lot of free advice on this show already and as we talked about yesterday i'm still waiting for that associate producer credit um so i won't take the show in

that direction all right now so to answer your question i uh a lot more broadly uh it's everything's healing up really well i'm basically leaving it um i'm not when i'm just here sequestered in my apartment which is what i've been doing becca was like are we hanging out today i was like no one don't look at me no one can see me i'm just gonna be here applying ointment and watching netflix after work which is exactly what i did um but it seems to be this was something that i was surprised by and i don't want to go too deep into wound care because that might be a little stomach turning for some people but i think i always thought the best thing for an injury is you just let it scab over and do its thing but everything i was reading yesterday was saying it will heal much faster if you're keeping it if you're keeping some you know like um ointment on it which to me i would think is like it's just being a kid i remember you know crashing your bike and you like skin up your elbow and then it just like scabs over and then it just like the scab falls off and that's just i thought that was just you know life finding a way but i guess it's actually much better to be applying ointment to it every three hours is what i've been doing

i'm the wrong person to ask i don't have a lot of um experience with this all i know is whenever i have like kind of a cut or a small abrasion or something going on with me and i i constantly complain about these things um i feel like genevieve will know if i have the smallest crack in my hand just from dry skin she will know about it so i'll mention it but then she always says like well for like dry skin have you put lotion on or for a cut she'll say have you put neosporin on or whatever and i always say no because i'm a child and i cut myself and then I throw some you know let's say I cut myself in the kitchen I'll throw some paper towels on it and I'll wait for it to maybe it may be a band-aid if it doesn't seal up on its own and then I never do anything to it until Genevieve's like well well I mean how do we just keep having these same conversations when you're never taking care of yourself one thing that I learned when I had those dang pins through my finger that was like last summer I don't know if I I'm hoping I didn't go into too much detail on this but um so i had these pins that were like you know on the outside of my finger but uh going all the way through my finger through my bone and coming out the other side and um so i guess there were two pins for openings and i think one or two of the openings did end up getting infected and i couldn't figure out why because i thought i was i was treating it exactly how they had told me to by cleaning it with peroxide and just really you know keeping it covered as much as possible but like once it got infected like it just in it that was painful and It wouldn't go down, and I couldn't figure out why until I finally looked up. It turns out peroxide, that's good for the first cleaning of a wound because the bubbling action will kind of like flush out the detritus or whatever. But then after that, it starts cleaning too well, and it takes out all the microbes or whatever that are the good things that are supposed to help your wounds heal. And so the reason this thing wasn't healing at all was I was just like probably the more it was infected, the more I was I was probably cleaning it with this stuff that was, like, killing all of the good stuff in my finger.

You just got on a constant hydrogen peroxide drip. Yeah, exactly. It's just completely neutralizing the pH of your body. Oh, man, yeah.

Or the whatever, the biome. I can't even get up in the morning anymore without an eye-opener shot of the stuff. That's what happens. Yeah. Anyway.

Anyway, to end the story, or at least to put some kind of pin in it for today, things are much better. I'm feeling better. I think it's on the road to recovery. I've worked out a special bandage situation, and I am feeling much less bummed about this today than I was yesterday. So I'm happy to report that.

I am happy to report that it was ClassicFM.com. It was actually Rosie Pentreith at ClassicFM.com who wrote a story about the background of Jack and Jill and the lyrics back in August of 2021. I want to make this very clear This is not my original reporting here This is Rosie Pantry Thank you, considering the top stories we have planned You need to really do some attribution Yes, I'm actually really glad that's in the top stories today The story that we're going to talk about This whole podcasting business and plagiarism Because I saw that tweet yesterday That's kind of started this conversation And I found it really interesting And I almost asked you if it's worth talking about on the show But I wanted to dig a little bit deeper But anyway, attributing this now There's a lot of background on Jack and Jill It doesn't seem to be based on any kind of true story, or it doesn't seem to represent any world events necessarily.

What's the crown part? That's the only part that I don't get. It's just that it rhymes. I think Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown, and Jill came tumbling after.

And also, did you know that there's a second verse that we'll get to in a second as well? But it says it's an English. Is it problematic? It is. It's the language it uses. Oof. Rough. Trigger warning, everyone. No, actually, I haven't actually read it yet, because I was trying to pay attention to you and kind of scan this at the same time. I don't think I can summarize it, since I'm taking this information in kind of fresh here, but I'll read directly from this piece that, again, was not written by me, but by Rosie Pentrath of Classic FM. I think I said that name differently all three times. Let's see. it goes back to the 18th century but possibly earlier um one dazzling detail i saw here was there's a chance that some people say that maybe it was originally jack and gill as a couple of friends and not jack and jill like maybe in an earlier iteration but in this iteration jill is apparently preggers did you know that yeah jack and jill is uh let's see it's a jill was originally spelled g-i-l-l which is typically a boy's name in the earliest version of the rhyme that being said there are some historic theories to connect jack and jill in this nursery rhyme towards people who actually lived some people say that the hill dubbed jack and jill hill uh is in somerset and was the inspiration for it what were you going to say it sounds like you have some information

well i'm looking at vegabomb.com which again in the in the spirit of full attribution this was someone named Shahana Yasmin writing in 2016 that there is a theory, and who knows, you know, if this theory is to be believed or not, but according to this website, Jack and Jill are actually France's Louis XVI and his wife Marie Antoinette, who were convicted of treason during the French Revolution, otherwise known as the Reign of Terror, and beheaded. Jack, or Louis XVI, lost his crown, i.e. his throne, and his head, and Jill, or Marie Antoinette's soon came tumbling after her head did well this article doesn't even mention anything

about that and this says this could go back to the 1500s so what era are we talking about with with yours uh I don't know when did Sofia Coppola put out that because this is Jack and so early 2000s um let's see because another theory says that this might date back to 1510 um and it could

have to do with king henry the seventh or even net was born in 1755 so let's just say that's according to wikipedia let's just say you know i don't know however long after that she came

tumbling after potentially and this one says it could good there's another theory that says it could date back to 1510 and refer to the ministers of henry the king henry the seventh who were executed when henry the eighth ascended to the throne so nobody really apparently has a good handle on this but i will read the full lyrics to you as they are presented here by classic fm.com jack and jill uh jack and jill went up a hill to fetch a pail of water we're all familiar with that part uh jack fell down and broke his crown jill came tumbling after up jack got and home did trot as fast as he could caper went to bed to mend his head with vinegar and brown paper he did what you You did.

He went to sleep after a head wound. And he also stopped by CVS to get some different kinds of brown paper to see what matched. Now that, see, that second verse, to me, makes it less likely that the dark origins of the first verse are true. Because if the whole theory is like he, you know, came to, you know, Jack fell down and broke his crown, was, you know, referring to some sort of royalty losing their status and maybe being beheaded. The second verse makes that seem less likely Which is good I would rather this was just like for once There was just one of these little nursery rhymes That wasn't about some gruesome incident

Yeah, and then there's another third lyric here It says The next morning, Jack moved not And Jill could wake him Though he be hot It's weird that it's interesting that they, see, I didn't think that the word hot was used. Scansion is fascinating. More modern type, but apparently I'm looking up here, it says the word hot goes back to the reign of King Henry VIII. So that's interesting. Are you a new classic FM now? God, that was terrible. It raises the question, Luke, why do I try? No, I love it. I know exactly.

It's so bad. Nothing. What is it? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I love that. Sometimes ventured and still nothing gained. But it's so worth it. But it's so worth it.

Because if it wasn't you, it was going to be me and I was going to do something worse.

I had to take the bullet. I was just going to cat roll you.

I was going to play you a clip from Mac and me. Let's see. Let's let's take a quick break. I really want to. Do you know about this baseball thing? Has this hit your radar? You're now more of a baseball fan than I am.

Yeah, I didn't know they were doing it this season, but I've heard it in other games. They experimented with this in past seasons, too, so I've heard it.

I want to play you a specific example of this coming up after we do this quick break here on TBTL. Stay with us.

We was hoping for some razzle-dazzle. Razzle-dazzle. That's right, man, razzle-dazzle. On your mark. On your mark. Get set. Get set. Now ready. Ready. Go. Let's thank some dazzling donors.

These wonderful, generous folks are donating a dazzling amount of dough, the highest dough level that we've got for the show on a regular basis, and it's really, really helping keep things going, starting with Nick Marchant in Bothell, Washington. Nick says, Hey, fellas, I just bought a house in Bothell for a day. or the next five to ten years until I find my next passion project. First of all, congrats, Nick. Buying a house, really anywhere in the country, but in particular anywhere in the sort of greater Seattle area is no small feat. I think you know of what I am talking about, Andrew. It's a bit weird being in my late 30s and buying a house by myself, but it's nice to be finding a place to settle down on the cusp of my fourth decade. I was going to suggest a song, but in lieu of that, I'll give Luke a hairdresser selection in the PDX area as a thanks for all the delightful content. Check out Ruby's Spa at McMiniman's Edgefield. You can get a nice glass of wine with your haircut and then soak in the heated saltwater pool. Power out. I'll tell you what, that McMiniman's Edgefield is pretty amazing. It's have you been to the like Anderson school or Kennedy school Or any of these McMenamin's projects in the

Northwest I stayed at one That was a school I feel like it was Closer out towards Beaverton maybe In Portland you've been you've been down You've been to one down here I was that Well yeah and we stayed there and it was more like A what do you call it where it's like Kind of shared bathrooms like we had a little room It was an old converted school I think And you walk down the hall

This the edge field i think it used to be a like a um an asylum of some kind but it is now this concert venue and just sprawling campus with all these different styles of food and drink and pools and nature and stuff it is really really cool and uh i'm very much hoping that things can continue to progress in the positive direction in terms of things staying open uh in terms of the pandemic because I've got big plans to go out there this summer. Who knew I could also get a haircut? I had not noticed that that was an option. And a saltwater bath as well. Yeah, I've got to wait for this scab situation. I don't think they'll let me in the pool. Somebody wrote, you're not going to...

of like this line of uh conversation andrew but i i i somebody was i was talking about this with somebody or i saw this somewhere or maybe i had the thought it was like a a pool was like do you're not allowed in this pool as a public pool like if you've had you know intestinal distress let's just say in the last seven days and i think the point of this conversation was that's a fairly broad that's a wide window for a lot of people depending on what's going on for them. Like that's almost like no one's really, no one should get in that pool. Sure. Yeah. It's somebody seven days is a long time. It'd be like, maybe like today or in the 24 hours, but like seven days is a lot, you know, it's a lot of time for something, you know, something not ideal to happen to you. I also like Nick's little, uh, Bothell joke that's woven in there. Cause it helped me not have to make it. Yes, I know. I almost jumped in. Michael has never come up on this program without the reference to that sign.

And I just want everybody to, you know, back me up when I say that you, Luke Burbank, are on the record saying that you're against the seven-day waiting period.

I am not saying I'm against it. I'm just saying it's a miracle to me. The people in that swimming pool are either breaking the rule, one of three things. I'm not against the policy.

I was making a seven-day waiting period for a gun joke. It was just a terrible— Isn't it five days? Is it? I don't even know. I thought maybe my joke was rooted. I thought it used to be a seven day. Isn't it seven minutes? I don't know. I didn't remember. Here's everything I know about the Brady law, which I think that is, is at one point on The Simpsons, Homer said, but I'm angry now. And I thought that was a really funny joke.

Let's see here. Okay. Now I want to figure this out. Waiting period of five days before a licensed importer manufacturer. Why do I know that, by the way? As a person who has no interest in buying a gun, I don't know why that particular detail of the Brady Bill stuck in my brain. But I guess, you know, if I'm – it's the least interesting fact for me to have somehow luckily been right on, I guess.

Yeah, why – I would have staked some actual wages that it was seven days. Dang it. I always – I know. Why didn't I slow play that? You've got to ask, before we say anything, before we ever switch to a new topic, you've got to ask me if I want to place any bets on it.

Hey, would you like to care to make it interesting? Anything that comes up. Actually, the listeners are like, yes, please, please make this interesting. Find some way, for God's sakes. Care to make, actually, you know what? Care to make this interesting is a decent show title.

I'll write it down.

Nick, despite the fact that we've never made it interesting, we very much appreciate your support in making this thing possible day after day. Thank you. Maestro?

On your mark. On your mark. Get set. Get set. Now ready. Ready. Go. Everybody rattle, dattle.

Hey, look who it is. It's the Jost family, Zach and Lauren. Rhymes with post or toast. Though I love your guys' effort Every year to remember how to say it I feel like the challenge for me Is always how do you say the J I never thought it was Jost You're wondering if it's Jost I don't think it's Jost I think it's Jost I'm going to assume And again you know I mean I think that the rise of Colin Jost Has probably helped You know and I'm not putting In fact If we're you know Something's going on and I can only save I can only save two Josts It's Zach and Lauren Josts And maybe their kids Let's kind of sneak them in too Colin's like he's not even in my top six Josts I'm I'm looking at the

I think it's Yosti Care to make it interesting? I'm pretty sure it's Zach and Lauren Yosti I could be wrong I'll reach out after the show

Here's what the Josts or Yostis say Yosti definitely sounds like, I don't know, some kind of like reggae situation. Maybe. We've been listening since the first couple of months. That is very true. I remember when this family, it might have just been Zach and Lauren at this point. Maybe they didn't even have kids yet. We're listening out in Brooklyn. And I just remember being so chuffed that we had listeners in Brooklyn because we were, you know, out here in Seattle. just kind of like the idea that there that there were folks cool folks living in the big apple who were like yeah this is we like this we're going to spend some time with this that was always kind of put some wind in my sails uh y'all have been a constant presence in our life uh lauren has gotten busy with life and work so she doesn't get to listen as much lately but i gladly keep her in the loop i'm guessing this is sort of zach writing this your daily presence has made getting through depend. and moving back to portland from brooklyn so much more enjoyable glad to be a supporter and can't wait to get out and see you at a live event soon sweet berry wine signed the jost family thank you very much for your support all these years i really appreciate you and i feel like this is they're like kind of two threads that have been coming up in the well a few threads the themes that have kind of come up in the dazzling donor messages One of them is, I love you despite the fact that you make me want to throw my phone at least once a week. And the other is, can't wait to get back together in some kind of live setting. And I very much echo that feeling. It's been too long. So thank you so much to our donors of the day for making TBTL possible. Hello and welcome to Top Story. so this baseball thing you know i i was familiar with the uh the move of putting a mic on like the manager or a player who's sitting in the dugout and kind of interviewing them as play is going on on the field but what i was unfamiliar with is that their mlb has now putting a mic and an earpiece on a person who's actively playing baseball and interviewing them and i feel like they're doing it to make the sport more interesting which i guess mission accomplished i mean job done but on the other hand i feel like it's an argument against baseball as a sport because you couldn't interview patrick mahomes while he's dropping back in the pocket like if you can be doing the sport and talking to Joe Buck I feel like there's something weird going on this is from a game I think it might have even been last night this is Kiki Hernandez who's an outfielder for the Boston

Red Sox talking to ESPN while Anthony Rizzo is at bat for the Yankees and he's explaining to the announcers what he's going to do if Rizzo hits it to him and then Rizzo hits it to him this is all happening? I'm going to try, well, depending on how hard it's hit. If it's hit hard, he's

probably not going to go home, but I don't want Rizzo to advance the second base on a hit, so I've got to keep the ball down, I guess. Oh, here it is. He's now running and

feeling the ball. Chucks it home. The cutoff man cuts it. like isn't that i mean it's it's kind of cool but like let me tell you this if i were the player if i were playing center field for the boston red sox i would be like um i need to really focus on the task at hand here i can't be like trying to talk to espn i wonder if they have a choice

they they maybe not it might be part of their contract negotiations i can't i mean that seems

yeah you maybe so but like that also seems bad because if you think about it like and i don't think that there's no evidence that this messed up kike hernandez is like ability to field that play but let's just say that you don't have a choice and that it's like some kind of weird thing where they're like you have to talk to the announcers and then you drop a fly ball giving you an error and then that goes against your stats and then next season you're trying to resign or whatever and it's like less team fewer teams are interested like i mean that's an extreme example but i just think it would be so hard to be making small talk while you're also trying to like get ready for like a screaming line drive to come out to center field yeah i well yeah it

usually is um outfielders i because i know i've heard mike trout miked up before and i'm trying to remember because i'm so fuzzy on the details here because i remember i'm a little confused Because I thought that you and I had talked about this But it might have been me It must have been me and somebody else Because I remember watching an all-star game Several years ago Which is where I think they started messing around with this And that makes sense It's an all-star game Have some fun Or pre-season Yeah, right And I remember thinking Oh, this is weird And then it got fascinating Because something was hit Like as the way he was describing it Potentially happening Not unlike that tape you just played Although I'm assuming that tape you just played Was from this season, right? That's new tape Yeah, it was from like last night Yeah, but I had like two days ago. I heard something that I watched and heard something very similar last season. And then I remember hearing Mike Trout. I think that one was weirdly kind of boring. I think Mike Trout was kind of charming, but nothing really happened in it.

But like, I think Mike Trout's five tools being interesting when interviewed is not one of them. Exactly. Six tool player.

I guess he's has Barack Obama once said, I guess he's like he's likable enough, of course, but I didn't find it scintillating. But, yeah, I love hearing them actually talk about the game and their strategy as they're out there in the outfield and like um saying like you know i remember like one of them even again it was a center fielder not trout but saying okay like looking at his card because a lot of these outfielders will have like you know yeah the scouting cards on the batters and then saying okay what he well here's what we're gonna be looking for here and then like and then you know and then when the play actually happens they just shut up and you hear him panting you know what i mean so yeah i don't know i feel like outfielders can kick it around and like i think that they they're talking to them to each other out there maybe they're talking to themselves too i would i'd be eating eating my mitt chewing on the little straps on my mitt talking to myself um but you know it's probably not i mean just given all of the downtime how many pitches at bat how many are going to end up coming your way like i wonder how much it bugs them because they seem to the ones i've heard i don't think it bugs them and i have to say like it's i just had no

idea this was happening in real time major league games like i you know like i said i would like spring training and certainly in the playoffs but i didn't i hadn't ever noticed it to be an interview an active interview with someone who's actively playing you know they don't like i said talk to the manager or somebody else who was like on the sideline or in the dugout but um i actually think it's very cool and i again i'm just i mildly shocked the players agree to it but i guess it has to do with the different rhythm of baseball than those other sports um yeah and just kind of like how many times it's well but of course the thing for any of us who played little league or something it's like every single play when you're when you're you know on the infield or the outfield the first thing they teach you is you have to in your mind before every pitch imagine that the ball is about to be hit to you and what you're gonna do you have to play it through every single time so it's like because i used to whatever like play shortstop in little league and it'd be like okay plays at first okay plays at second okay check the runner go to first you're going through all these progressions and like this was first of all these were children i was playing with as i was also a child none of us had little laminated cards the stakes were very low actually but you're just going through this progression of like what you're going to do and you pretend every ball is coming to you because the alternative is is to you'll be flat-footed um so at this high high level i'm just surprised that the players are as chill about it as they are and into it but you're right it's compelling television it must be hard especially for kids

because i mean i played a little bit of little league i played um t-ball i don't i feel like i must have played some little league pitch ball although i just don't recall um but you know as they said on arrested development i was just a little turd out there like i wasn't ever like really engaged in it um but as kids especially i mean it can get so competitive early on for these little leagues now you know teaching kids just to remember like okay there's a man there's a boy there's a person on second um you know so that's going to affect what happens if the ball comes to you as opposed to if the same at-bat was happening and there wasn't you know somebody on base and so thinking about because i'm just saying that because like you know i'll just zone out and play my uh my stupid um rbi baseball game here at home on my xbox and then you know i'll be pitching and then i see that a runner is stealing a base i'm just like ah wait you know you only have you have like zero time to react and you gotta was that player on first or second are they stealing second or third and never do you realize what a terrible baseball player you would be when you can't even remember when you're playing a video game if there's a

runner on first or second i'm so glad that i played youth sports in the era before youth sports were what they are now yeah intense it's so intense and so hyper specialized and if you like show any tiny bit of promise at a specific at a certain sport then like you know so like maybe you play a few different sports but then you're kind of a little better at baseball and now it's like well are you going to get on a travel team are you going to get like a coach you know for the like a hitting coach for the off season and like i just like i lived for playing sports as a kid but it was like the stakes were so low i just would like get on my 10 speed and ride in my in my uniform to ross field off of third and play baseball and it was like no one came to the games no one cared the coaches were on probation it was just i mean it was totally and completely low stakes which was like the bet i mean i if anybody was taking it too seriously it was me like i was kind of that little like annoying kid to play with who would like i'd be pitching or something and then like they'd hit it and then the second base would make an error and i would just be like come on like i was probably a real i want to talk about being a turd out there i think i was probably like the least liked player on my team because i was like overly competitive and overly emotional but i'm so glad that i didn't come up in this environment of just the hyper competitiveness

language alert here but something just occurred to me and this is gross too by the way but the maybe I shouldn't have started by saying

a little turd but like saying a kid is a little turd is like almost the exact opposite of saying that they're a little shit yet the words mean the same thing like it sounds like you weren't i was a little turd out there but you were a little shit yes you're exactly right and you know i mean

this is sad to say but probably i would have yelled at you like you would have been playing telling me walsh you would have been on your journey and i would have been on mine and it would have been the little turd meets the little shit you said that like camaro kev um i uh i don't

know why i need to tell this maybe i'm just floundering around for interesting content that whole care to make this interesting is really stuck in my head we've got this whole podcast don't sprain anything jack was dead he hit his okay whatever um oh that's actually getting stronger i like that you're workshopping this i was gonna say this is just a really sad story that actually doesn't involve me for a change i wasn't the one who um had to kind of live with an amount of embarrassment here but i think about the um little league photos that were taken like the team photos that were taken again we were young i'm gonna say like kindergarten and first grade or something and it was one of those years i i hope it was one of those years and not older it might have even been slightly older but we took the team photo and i you know back then it comes in the mail and you open it up. It's got that brown cardboard frame around it. Right. And it's just like the whole team posing, you know, on the field somewhere. And should I use the full name? I won't use the full name, but poor, poor Charlie N. He was right there in front because he was a shorter kid like me. He was a fat kid. And on this picture day, he'd wet himself. and i didn't even notice it i remember my dad being like oh charlie poor charlie and i guess there's just nothing you know there's a chance the photographer didn't notice i'd like to think that if the photographer had noticed he might have rearranged kids in some way to but i'm sure they didn't notice it but then once it's printed like what are you gonna do then you can't like recall it i guess but i mean that i don't know like as far as i know nobody ever approached charlie about it i don't have a follow-up to this nobody beat him up in the schoolyard because of this but and i wonder if you know what the conversation was like in charlie's home but god i think about that sometimes and it breaks my heart and it just surprises me that it wasn't me

yeah that well that that's such a bummer i'm guessing the photographer didn't notice because if he did first of all i would guess that that's not as that's not as unusual as you might think just you're talking about young you know young kids and the obvious fix would be to just put that guy behind someone else and that seems like if you've taken any number of like you know team photos like that you've seen it and then you just have a kind of like a hopefully you just have a discreet way of saying you know what let's just get like you rearrange them under some you know invented story which just kind of puts charlie in a place it'll be less embarrassing for him yeah um so my guess is that the is that the um photographer missed it i had a weird baseball card team photo experience recently andrew did i ever tell you about this i think a bot a bot might have tweeted at my my actual little league photo a bot might have tweeted

your little league photo i'm gonna is this is this a photo of just you like you said baseball card

I'm going to send you a link right now And what is Let's see I'm just going to text this to you

Is this a show pic by the way Your little league baseball card

Sure I mean What was interesting about it was With no context Somebody just says At Luke Burbank On Twitter and then it's a picture It's my baseball card It's me as a little kid It is as cute as hell Well, you know, that was me in my moment. It went straight downhill after that. But what's interesting is I don't know how this particular person found this picture of me, added me with it. But then I went to this person's page, and they have no follower. They have five followers, and all they have ever tweeted about other than that picture is some kind of, like, makeup. Some kind of makeup. I don't know if it's multilevel marketing. it feels like it's a bot that's there to sell or promote some kind of like you know modern day avon and then randomly this picture of me that's added me yeah i'm on the same exact journey with you right now so it's it's such a it's like i don't know if that's a a real person and they just the only thing that they ever tweet about is this makeup situation and then randomly

me with no comment and when very weirdly going back to some of their very very first

back in 2014 um angrily tweeting at bill burr over not uh not weighing in or something on the

the cosby um oh well that actually i didn't get that far back now maybe that that's less body to less yeah like to me so maybe it's just a person who's got an interesting um twitter strategy but then the question becomes how did they get my picture yeah and you don't recognize this name

so here's the thing no it's not a person i've ever met yeah because it's interesting because like you said only five followers is a red flag but the fact that joined in April of 2014 usually these bots don't last that long usually you know the sure sign of a bot is hey somebody's following you and you're like yay I'm popular and then you look and you're like oh you just joined in March of 2022 and all you have are these multi level marketing schemes or whatever but yeah but this person and you know they have a pretty standard looking avatar it's a woman holding a child um but those things are stolen all the time it's a woman holding the child aka

grogu from the mandatorian i just was i again i didn't scroll down far enough to see anything that wasn't the makeup related uh kind of information and so the combination of like again and not even saying like hey luke uh tbtl fan here yeah i found this baseball card somewhere of you as a freaking sixth grader here you go it's just like at luke burbank picture of me and then a bunch of tweets about a makeup thing and i was just like it was so just it was so unusual and again i don't understand how this picture of me fell into the possession of this person

and it's interesting that all of these so it looks like it's the same exact link to this makeup company that has tweeted out repeatedly just through a period of it looks like mostly spring to early summer of 2018 so it's kind of like a spade of those it looks like the very first one was in December of 2017 I mean this isn't very interesting I'm just obsessed over this now I got obsessed over something interesting today too no no I'm sorry I got obsessed over something not interesting today too that I want to share with you which is care to make it interesting? No. No. Have you been following along at all today? I have nothing. I have nothing in the tank for some reason. But my old pal Gary, my old program director, my old boss Gary at KCRW, neither one of us are there anymore, so I don't have to call him boss anymore, I think. He still lives in Los Angeles, and he took a little video and posted it to Instagram of this cocoa delivery. I'll call it a robot, but it's like a little bin on wheels that you can order something through cocoa. And then I guess it's not.

It doesn't have cocoa is the company. It's not bringing hot cocoa. I don't think so. Although you can make a joke.

When you said cocoa delivery, I was like, no, I imagine Swiss miss. No, that would be great. But it would be interesting if people use cocoa to order cocoa. I think this is basically like, I don't know, like Uber Eats only. And it's not autonomous, but it is, I believe, kind of remote controlled. So there's a company called Coco. I think you can sign up for it like you would Uber Eats or something along those lines. You can order from certain vendors that have a partnership with Coco. I know nothing about this. I did a very, very quick search on this because all I knew was Gary had posted this video of this very cute looking kind of red and pink little box that says Coco on it. uh kind of driving itself or apparently driving itself down a sidewalk in los angeles yeah it looks like a cooler exactly and the thing that i obsessed over was on the back it's got a 216 area code and you don't see 216 area codes all that often if you're from cleveland you're like 216 so that's the cleave baby that's how we say it it's a thing yeah it's not a thing but i did notice the 216 i'm like wait there's no way this is a this is such a seems like such a west coast company kind of deal and they are an la based company so i'm sure the answer here is not very interesting they probably just bought up a bunch of google voice numbers right and maybe ended up with a 216 i'm watching a metropolitan area like yeah well and you're you're um you're sure that

it's not available in cleveland you're saying it's only available in la currently well i don't know

that here's what i will tell you though i do know that this video that i'm watching with the device with the 216 number was shot in los angeles definitely that's on that's in santa monica

oh you're looking at gary's feed are you oh no i'm looking at the coco website oh okay gotcha he was involved in he was he was involved in the creation of this no here let me let me rephrase

okay so they have my boy gary lives in los angeles and he was walking down the street or something or and he saw one of these coolers driving itself down the street so he whipped out his phone and he recorded it and he posted it to instagram and i just noticed that on the back of this thing in his little personal video that it's a 216 area code which sort of blew my mind I went to their website where they have a very slick video

that also is showing, by the way, one of them with a 216 on the back of it, one of them with a 213, which is actually an L.A. area code. And so I was watching a different video, but that also had the same – had a moment where I was seeing the same phone number or a similar phone number confirming that this is a real thing happening in the world. I am – I have to say, I'm very intrigued by this kind of stuff. Like, they just started apparently in San Francisco. there are autonomous vehicles now that are running that do not have a human being in the car driving them i forget the name of the company but for a while they're these white jaguars and for a while they were you know doing the thing where the car was autonomous but there was someone sitting in the driver's seat in case something went wrong and they just recently eliminated the sort of human monitor and i think that the only people that can use the car i think it's i think right now it's being used basically as a ride share but it might only be employees of the company which is sort of i guess an additional sort of beta test but if i'm not mistaken there we are at the point now where in san francisco there are actual robot vehicles some small fleet of them driving around With no human driving them And I have to tell you I am so here for this stuff

Okay I've had a little break in the case Of this person who tweeted out Your baseball card Not a huge break in the case But I think this is a real person Or this is a real person

The Bill Burr tweet That you said makes me think it's a real person

This is either a real person Or this is a real person Whose profile has possibly possibly been stolen by a bot because that that will happen they'll take the names and the and the photos often of women i think and then kind of create these uh these these fake accounts because i've seen people getting very upset like hey this fake account is using my image like please stop this but i'm not going to use this person's name on the show as we try to figure this out but i'm guessing this might be a listener or somebody who maybe was going through a family member or a friends memorabilia from childhood because what I did was I googled their name with the word Seattle just thinking hey Luke grew up in Seattle like is this person is there anything connecting this person's name to Seattle and when you google their name and the word Seattle the first thing that pops up is their Instagram feed which is there and again their handle is a combination of their name and the word Seattle now I can't sleuthing then I can't get into their Instagram feed because it's a private it's a private account and so i'd have to ask for permission to see it and that makes sense but here's the other thing the avatar of this person on their instagram um page is clearly the same person who is in the avatar on the the twitter handle and the kid looks a little bit older it looks like an updated photo of the same you know apparently you know i'm assuming parent child duo um so i do think this person is somebody in seattle who must have come across this card and also is just not using probably twitter that often and that well and maybe those little um automatic tweets about the makeup thing might have been something that they accidentally signed up for or when they made a move on their on their sales or something

something automatically got tweeted or something yeah that's very that all sounds extremely possible uh if you are if the the person if you are the person who tweeted that can i get that baseball card that would be cool you don't have it i don't think i have it um and i wonder if they knew it was me because it's got my stats on the back it's probably like luke burbank four foot four 88 pounds or you know bats right throws right i think if i remember right they used to you know like so you kind of felt cool like you had a baseball card they used to like list just some basic details about you um yeah because your name is not on the front of this it just

Do those letters represent the league? N-C-L-L? Yeah, North Central Little League.

I played for Domino's Pizza. We were the worst team in the league. We were so bad. We were an expansion team. This is literally the cutest photo I think I've ever seen in my life, though. I mean, honestly, that's not indicative of any level of cuteness I was bringing in my youth. I mean, people are going to flip out when I tweet this. uh i think i might have retweeted did i retweet it i don't know we don't have to like go too hard with the publication of that but because i think i might have or maybe i responded to the person and said something like how'd you get this or i don't know i don't remember but um andrew that is some pretty good investigative journalism that you were just doing to figure out if this is a real person or not you know who is apparently not doing as much Thank you. investigative journalism the guy who launched this new thing called soldier of misfortune this podcast about a korean war veteran who was also a uh kind of a fraudulent person and also hijacked an airplane uh the reason that i know this is because this guy brendan kerner who's a writer for a few places including the atlantic has he tweeted out this has got got 9 000 likes and has touched off quite the conversation online so the tweet from this guy brendan kerner is it's got a link to this podcast called soldier of misfortune and he writes this podcast series is a shameless ripoff of my at the atlantic story from last april no credit is given and the creator did zero original reporting he even mispronounces the main character's name through all eight episodes it's kasi not kisi and then again he he includes a link to the offending podcast and then there's kind of a long thread and lots he uh brendan puts in the actual atlantic piece that he wrote which he said he researched for nine years years he says every detail in this podcast comes directly from the text of my story without any attribution And so, of course, you know, lots and lots of other podcasters, which is the only people that I, it turns out, follow on Twitter anymore are podcasters. So when something pops off in the podcasting verse, it ends up just like hitting my feed, you know, my for you or whatever you want to call it, just from every angle. This has got the podcasters of the world really up in arms. And I think rightfully so, because we've reached this point where if you have a breakout podcast investigative, you know, kind of like in the dark style show that people get really obsessed with, I'm guessing that you can really, you know, maybe make some money off of advertising from that because those shows can really kind of take off. Of course, our colleagues in the dark, they assiduously and painstakingly do all their own research, which is why that show is so good.

But I guess I'm not shocked, but I'm a little surprised that we've now hit the point where someone has figured out, oh, you can just take someone else's deep dive in the Atlantic. And by the way, the story is a dive. I tried to listen to the audio version from the Atlantic. It's an hour long. The written piece is, I mean, it's not even presented as a podcast, but it's an hour to read it aloud. But you can just take, I wonder if we're going to see more of this, too, because, you know, I guess it's like you just take a really well-researched piece that someone else did. You read it, you digest it, and then you just kind of rewrite it out, and then you read it into the microphone and you release it as a podcast.

Yeah, I mean, it gets you thinking, right? Because I mean, so much of what you and I do, and by the way, I, I, none, none of this, none of what I'm going to say is going to lead towards me saying that I think you and I are guilty of stealing content or we need to be more careful because actually I think specifically you who are usually choosing the stories and setting up the stories, you've always been like very meticulous about naming the person who writes the stories. And so when I'm in the position to do that, too, whether you're out or if I'm doing it on another podcast, I do the same thing. And I 100 percent got that from you. Like you always look to see if there is a byline. And I really respect that. And also, you know, you and I are not basing this show, TBTL, on other people's stories. We are talking about our lives. We're talking about all these things. And it's a it's a various montage of things. And some of those are stories that are in the news. And so you credit them and we talk about them for a little bit. I mean, that's kind of classic talk radio shit. But now that you're in this, like, kind of like, welcome to this podcast where we deep dive on crime or whatever. And then people just creating seasons, which, I mean, I've just been thinking about this. You alluded to this yesterday, I want to say, too. Like, actually, you were talking about television, but I think it's true in audio as well. We live in this world also where something that would have been a good half hour story on This American Life or an hour long story on This American Life even. like that would have been really really solid and good there's no money in that anymore as the drop says like or is that that's Howard Stern there's no money in that so you take this story that would have been a solid solid audio documentary and you say I have a new podcast series that is eight episodes long and it's just and you can just feel these things getting stretched out in ways that like are not the best it's not the best editing advice except for the fact that people are saying first what the medium is then what the story is which seems a little backwards to me um and so you just have people who are just saying okay the season is we're gonna talk about this uh this mystery or this case of

somebody um who did something wrong and then disappeared or whatever it is and it's like well i could read the new york times and the washington post stories of this and present it as a podcast but now it's like well one person wrote the whole thing and all the details are there and i'll just open up a microphone and talk about the story that i read like it's a weird world that we live in

right now to like then try to monetize that yes and i want to i want to just say before i make my next statement that i understand the deep irony and hypocrisy of me of what i'm about to say considering how completely aimless this show is five days a week but i will say this people are not tuning into tbtl for concise uh you know sort of moving a narrative forward in terms of like a very gripping crime story or mystery or thing that's not what we're trying to do here so this thing is flabby and all over the place like my torso when i take my shirt off andrew admittedly so but i know exactly what you're talking about in fact the thing that has put me off a lot of serialized podcasts of late is like there's the the initial episode will be really compelling and i'll be like oh i want to find out what's going on with this and then as i'm looking at the next three or four i realized oh this is they just had to like they had to find some side light some side issue of this that's not particularly compelling whether it's some element of the person's backstory or some other character or whatever and i like i'm starting to really see the like three or four episodes that are just filler just to get to a season and again i'm not i'm not arguing that anything we're doing here is overly gripping or compelling but again i feel like we're offering a different service when it's like you're you're saying i'm doing the next serial i'm doing the next you know whatever winds of change like you gotta i mean it would be better if the if the if the number of episodes reflected the amount of content that supported those episodes it's very rare and again i think you think some of the real hits like our colleagues at in the dark i'm not just saying that because they work at apm i've listened to all of the in the dark and there was no there was absolutely nothing on in there that felt like it was filler everything was just like deeply riveting yeah it's also because you have this like amazing staff of really hard-working journalists that are generating a lot of content and are really good at what they do but now the like the sort of podcastization of america means that you got this guy and i don't want to be like i don't be mean to this dude it's just on his grind but i like looked him up and he's like he's somebody who's just trying to get in the game somewhere he's like you go he's got like a little bit of an imdb page i'm talking about the guy who who's uh sort of accused of sort of ripping off this atlantic piece and it's like he's got an imdb page where it's like he kind of was in one like independent film he's but he's kind of got a production company he's starting and i'm sure he probably just saw that like podcasts are so hot and he wanted to make something i'm guessing he didn't have the resources that like apm has to like turn a journalistic team like in the dark loose on something and so it was just like well how can i kind of just

repurpose something but he got called out doing it in such a public way like i wonder what this is going to do for that show like if people are going to listen out of kind of like curiosity or if i just wonder if he's as mortified by this as he probably should be i wonder first of all

i'll bet you a million bucks that people are at least clicking on it to hear what it sounds like

i'll bet you the first depending on how itunes ratings i wonder where it's at oh that's interesting

yeah and i'll bet you people are at least checking out the first few minutes of it or something so i'm sure the first episode is going to have much much much higher click numbers than it would have otherwise i think the interesting thing luke is and you were you were kind of hinting at this is i don't think this person ever thought they were doing something wrong and that's where the cultural conversation is because it's generational i don't want to sound like an old guy and i mean it this in a certain way this is the same conversation we were having literally 20 years ago it's sort of the not the advent of the internet but the the mainstreamification of journalism online and and things being borrowed and how do we attribute and the expectation of things being free and and the information is just out there and again i'm not saying that i have anything like super um i certainly don't have any answers or insight on this necessarily but i do think that it's partially generational as well people's relationship with i hate the word but people's relationship with content is just so different right now i'm sure this person could oh another thing that we should mention in this twitter feed is or in this twitter thread is um The podcaster reached out to the original journal. journalist to say will you be on my podcast i'm also doing something about this guy that you wrote about and i would like to interview you did you see that tweet and it said something like yeah it was like the second or third tweet in the thread i had it in front of me a second ago and i don't anymore but it said um i'm happy to um i can't pay for this but i'm happy to credit you obviously and then at the end of the show you can promote anything that you're working on right now um if that sounds appealing to you so it was a nice invite to be on the show and to be interviewed and you know and hey I'll promote your I'll promote your projects which is just kind of funny I mean I've said that before as a public radio producer like no we don't pay for you to be on our show and talk about your journalism but of course we'll talk about your book or whatever give you a shout out I mean that's kind of normal but but this person I guess the the writer of this article got that note and said well nothing will come of this and just sort of moved on with his day and then years later or a year later or months later realized that his whole article has just been turned into a podcast. That's basically like an audio book of his story. Well, it's really, it's interesting

because I'm looking at the episode descriptions of the rip-off podcast. So episode one is about stolen valor and it's featuring a guest. It says, after serving in the korean war texas panhandle native bobby joe how do we say his name uh

casey oh oh that's right we actually got to pronounce it's kasi kasi thank you sorry i

already forgot yeah right but the good news is we're we're not presenting ourselves as the knowers of this story so at least we got that going for us um the the host speaks with the host of the ripoff podcast speaks with writer rachel monroe about her new yorker article on Valor theft in the US military By the way this is brought to you by Vita Dreams Sleep Aid Choose Dreams with a Z Andrew In case you wanted to know how the business is going In podcasting so that's the first one it's like Okay you're doing an interview with someone You're kind of taking a topic from From this larger Story of this person And you're then kind of interviewing someone Else about the topic well that's that would Seem like you're actually adding something Except episode two it's just The story of this guy no guest Episode 3 It's just the story of this dude There's no guest Episode 4 Just the story of this guy Episode 5 Let's see do we have a guest No we don't It is still brought to you by VitaDreams Sleep Aid Chews My guess would be And I 1000% agree with you by the way That the person who did this rip off podcast Probably didn't in any universe Think what he was doing was not okay But what you have was A podcast that had an interview with a guest in episode one and then does not appear to have any other original content ever in its existence. You want to know why? Because it's kind of hard to make original content. Yeah. And I bet you this kid ran out of steam and then just started basically ripping out giant pieces of Brendan

Kerner's Atlantic piece. Well, let me ask you this. A real question here. Like, I'm really tempted to hear what this sounds like just on, like, episode three or four or something. I would like to know the tone of it. as this person because i haven't clicked on this at all i'm clicking on episode four right now um should i play this or is that giving clicks where we don't want to give clicks or what no i don't

think it i don't think it's i don't i don't think it's going to move the needle too much one way there i i feel like i'm not going to be able to describe it to you but i feel like i can already hear this podcast in my mind i'm not going to any sense i'm not going to start it at the beginning

and by the way these episodes are very short these episodes are only about it looks like the one i'm on is only like 12 minutes long so again it's another example of just trying to chop it up

as much as possible this is like me putting the margins in on my paper that i was writing in high school because i didn't have i didn't write enough it's got to be eight pages how do i get it to eight pages 14 minute episodes that are just basically large sections lifted from the atlantic it sounds

like hey while i hit play on this i'm gonna boss you around a little bit i'm gonna ask a favor here luke i'm gonna hit play on this we'll listen to maybe attracted to you um have you googled yet the person who does the podcast to see if they've spoken out on this like on their own twitter feed

or anything that would be i'll do that i will do that well i googled them yesterday which is how i got to their um i got to their uh you know imdb page and they just struck me as somebody who you know trying to make it somehow in the entertainment game on some level and heard that podcasting was hot, and so this is their sort of foray into that. But I'll do a little searching while you're...

Yeah. Check out, yeah, check out, it looks like they are on Twitter, so check them out on Twitter to see if they say anything about that. Sorry, and I lost my audio. Here we go. Take a listen to this. This is just like somewhere in the middle of episode number four

here. With nothing else to do, Casey and... Also, there's going to be some language.

Okay, so it sounds like you read the article and then you wrote a... like kind of a radio script about it, and then are just basically reading your script is how this worked.

Yes, and I'm trying to find a, like a Twitter page for this guy or something on his website. It doesn't look like he's, you know, I haven't seen anything where he's kind of like trying to like clarify or set the record straight. And again, it's very possible that in the media landscape that we now live in, or at least in the attention landscape, that this is a good thing for this guy, because i certainly hadn't heard of this project beforehand and i'm sure this twitter feed with 9 000 people liking and threading it and talking about it and responding i'm sure that like you said andrew it's pushed many more people towards this other project um than would otherwise have ever heard about it yeah you got my click i guess i um somebody pitched me this interview for live wire about a new podcast about phoenix jones oh yeah and i listened to the trailer and and you know i i would say this to the to the person and people who made it so i don't think i'm you know being unnecessarily snarky but what i i said to our live wire producers was i was like if you listen to this trailer you would think that there was legitimately a period of time where almost all of the law enforcement in seattle fell upon a group of superheroes and i mean i know like i don't have to i don't have to wind you up on the phoenix jones topic at all but like it's exactly kind of what you're talking about which is there's a a story there about somebody who was apparently somewhat troubled and i think you i mean you and i both doing a lot of talk radio in seattle at the time when this was going on um you know seeing this guy it was it was a media stunt more than anything it was not providing meaningful law enforcement in seattle but if you listen to this this podcast you know from whomever it was probably a new studio maybe i'm not familiar with if you listen to that podcast trailer you really thought like there was like i said a period of time where a ragtag group of self-styled superheroes were out there stopping crimes like actively which is so misleading to what was actually happening and i passed on it because i was like i can't i was like if we do this interview i'm gonna spend the whole time calling bullshit on the premise oh you know what look i got my wires crossed when you were first

talking i must have been distracted i thought you were saying that they were asking to interview you on this podcast about phoenix jones since you were kind of in the area and sort of i guess sort of covering it as a as a talk show host at the time but you're saying that they wanted like your producers at live wire were asking if you were interested in interviewing the person behind this

podcast series yeah exactly and i was kind of like if i i was like if if i was like the problem is i'm just gonna spend the whole time kind of picking it apart yeah from a factual standpoint and again i'm i haven't listened to it so i don't i can't say from from i listened to the trailer But, you know, again, it sounded very compelling if I lived in Sarasota, Florida, and I heard the trailer of this podcast, I would just be like, holy shit, like this was going on. But as a person who lived in Seattle, Washington at the time and was part of this media cycle of the constant Phoenix Jones coverage, I didn't feel like the trailer accurately to me described what the scene was then. because of course the you know a lot of times the truth gets in the way of a good story right exactly what happened with that story was there's this dude guy was into mma kind of a lost soul kind of into superheroes had this idea of he was going to go out and kind of be you know sort of his version of a superhero went on the streets intervened in a thing or two which may may not have been a good idea started getting all this media attention but then when that stopped happening uh his life appears to have sort of fell apart and he got busted selling some drugs like

it's that's the that's the real story and there were some copycats too and it sounds like that's what this podcast talks about as well i'm assuming the fact that because there were other people than then started dressing up right and yeah and i think they were kind of all kind of hanging out

like a crew yeah like i think that it became this thing where other people because they thought it was cool what he was doing and so other people started showing up in their outfits and again i mean that all really happened and that's i feel like there's a probably a very interesting human story to be told but it's not the story of there were superheroes protecting the people of Seattle in any kind of meaningful fashion. Like, I swear we would have heard about that. This, like if that was really good, what was going on.

And maybe we can leave this here because I realize I'm just sort of being like a dog with a bone on this, but I was looking for the person behind this podcast, not, not the superhero podcast, but the one about the, about the soldier. He apparently, this podcaster is not on Twitter, But I did find his Instagram page, which is linked to on his on his website. And he posted about about 10 weeks ago, he posted about the debut of his podcast. And he wrote, after many months of work, I'm proud to announce the release of this podcast, a limited series foray into yours truly. No, I'm sorry. A limited series foray foray by yours truly in the world of true crime podcast. If you're a fan of the genre, check it out, blah, blah, blah, blah. and of course that was posted 10 weeks ago probably without anybody replying at all and now in the past day or two it's just been people saying so you just stole this from the atlantic and people are like rolling their eyes many months of work imagine how long it had taken if you didn't steal

it like blah blah blah ouch yeah again i mean i think you're totally right though that i don't think that this person had any thought that what they were doing was journalistically a problem because it's like it's everything's just content and and look there are a lot of these especially on like tick tock and stuff there are so many people who are trying to kind of get into the true crime or weird crime game where basically their thing is telling you in 25 seconds or telling you in two minutes about a like a a gruesome event that happened or a scam that someone did that's unbelievable but it's just them sitting in their room and they're reading maybe a script they sort of wrote or maybe just large chunks of some news reporting on it that someone else you know went out and did that's a thing now i mean i know that the like you know the my favorite murderer is like one of the more popular podcasts on planet earth and my understanding is that the hosts of that show do their own research and do a pretty deep dive on these events so i'm not uh certainly not gonna uh besmirch what they're doing but i think that what happens is you have like those two doing the show they're doing that's super popular and again is my guess is pretty well researched from an original standpoint but then yeah a lot of other people hear that and they just hear them talking about a thing that happened they're like i could talk about a thing that happened yeah and they don't understand i mean you know what i'm i'm guilty of this like the first i think maybe the first radio story that i ever the first kind of like i guess we would call it a feature piece the first feature piece that i ever got i think on the radio was on the marketplace morning report and it was about boutique bakeries meaning little art you know artisanal kind of bakeries in seattle and you know where i got the story the wall street journal where they had some a good actual reporter who wrote this piece and i was like an intern at kuow and i lived in seattle and i was like this is a good story i'll do the radio version and you know who i went and talked to everyone they interviewed in the wall street journal piece like i literally didn't know as a 20 year old that that's not journalism you know well so i mean

yes if you're if you're making a package in that way okay yeah if you're if you're doing a news report in a package yeah that's i guess that's not cool using all the same sources and just creating a uh in a you know an audio version of the new york times story or the wall street journal story um but i will say that i have done that and not felt super bad about it as far as having people on talk shows because i do and maybe i'm in the wrong here but let me just like sort of feel this out like and i think that i was probably i was so okay with it that i think i worked with some hosts who were less okay with it and wanted to see a lot more like kind of journalism enterprise and enterprise journalism and i and i was always like but we're a i always approached the talk shows that i worked on and in some cases the talk shows that i led as a head producer as we aren't doing original reporting here like that's not what i'm in this game for i am here to make an hour-long talk show that can be in most of these cases a journalistic entity that you can trust that follows some rules and guidelines of journalism but i was always okay with first of all if there's an interesting piece in the new york times and it is written by a reporter or reporters who are good on the radio get them on the radio i have no i have no i had worked with some people who are like no well we have to move it forward or we have to find a better story and make it our own and it's like well that's not what i do as a talk show producer if i was i always would say people i'm not running a newsroom i'm running a talk show and i feel like those are different and i think that you know and i'm not even saying that the people who saw it differently were necessarily wrong it was just a difference of vision i think some people found it very lazy

Thank you.

some people I work with just to like say hey this is a fascinating story let's get the reporters on and then sometimes you'd say well let's get a reporter and one of their sources or sometimes maybe hey the New York Times wrote this story up and this is one of the main people who's quoted in this story let's just get that person on the air say hey the New York Times wrote up this story about you know circumstance x and joining us now is so and so by the way that was one of Phoenix jones's sidekick yeah remember we used to call david the situation no no no what did we call your brother the circumstance i believe anyway um yeah so anyway and i was fine with that i was like we don't have to reinvent the wheel as a talk show going out and beating the streets and doing our own journalism i guess what you're saying though is you were doing kind of feature package reporting that was essentially an audio version of somebody else's journalism and i guess yeah that's where

you get into some stickier territory like literally i just did the exact same story i'm surprised at the person in the wall street journal luckily it was so low profile what i did it probably played so early in the morning to so few people that the real reporter who i was just ripping off thankfully probably never heard it or it was so bad that they were like i don't even want to dignify this with a response yeah but but i agree i actually like the kind of talk show that you're describing i actually enjoy that kind of programming and i feel like there isn't as much of it anymore like i was listening to when i was in hawaii i was listening to here and now it's uh and it was magna chakrabadi was was hosting and it was like an hour long discussion of the same topic bringing in different experts and journalists and i miss that i feel like everything is like a magazine show now like i was a sucker for like you know to the point uh yeah i love that kind of stuff i love like let's take a topic and then let's just spend an hour with it and let's kind of come at it from every single angle or i don't know just that kind of talk radio that i feel like we hear less and less of because local i'm talking about in the public radio space i feel like it's really hard now to do local talk shows and so it's more and more national programming and the national programming is constantly evolving and doing more I would say magazine style which is like setting up pieces and um kind of like basically like the host reads an intro and then you play a recorded story and then the host reads another intro and there's a recorded story and then there's an interview but these are all about separate topics potentially I think there's something kind of I when I heard the they were talking about the pandemic response particularly in Korea this was on um on uh uh here and now i think i can never remember the name of that show because it is so

generic to me i remember because it was originally a regional show in new england that i loved a great deal it was you call hamburgers here and now but uh so i used to love it um but yeah well

i thought it was great i was really enjoying it driving around in hawaii i was like oh i missed this like i wish this was on in a time slot in portland where it would come into my life more regularly via the like my radio opb because like anyway just back to the thing you were saying which is i don't think that of that as being um bunk journalism at all i just think what i did was bunk journalism i think what this guy did looks and sounds a lot like it was bunk journalism even though he probably like me when i was young didn't even realize that's just not how you do it

yeah and that's where i'm really interested in seeing how this person responds now i don't think this is a i don't think this is at all a partnership with spotify or anything but it's interesting to see you know when when you and i started well i guess you and i didn't start this podcast but i'll talk about the podcast that i have started on my own like the understanding with first of all there was like basically two platforms apple and stitcher and i would apply to both for like after these messages and spotless when i wanted to start a new podcast you'd have to record i think usually i think you have to offer up audio so you record the first one you post it using your own rss feed so technically anybody can get it but you then have to get on these platforms for them to distribute it and to reach a wider audience so you literally apply you say i have a new podcast it's about cleaning or whatever you know and you send them the feed and somebody reviews it at these institutions and then they post it and then spotify is obviously a newer player in the game and so i had to go back and apply to be on spotify for my podcasts as well that's generally how one launches a podcast if you're not already hooked up with another organization and if you're not one does not just walk into mordor and launch a podcast i think that's the takeaway now the difference is obviously that's just if you're doing an independent podcast like me and genevieve and hannah do right but if you're somebody who has been tapped by spotify to create Spotify original content. I just want to draw a line there. That's something different. And I'm saying this is clearly not a podcast that was produced in partnership with...

spotify in any way right but it seems like this this um podcaster who launched this podcast only launched it on spotify for some reason i don't know if that speaks to where the industry is right now like everybody the younger generation just thinks everybody listens to all podcasts on spotify which really bodes well i can see it in um i can see it in apple though you oh you can

oh i couldn't find it in apple oh okay i was looking it up because i don't have a spotify on this particular computer so okay it was it was it is available in apple that's where i was

reading those descriptions from okay well this is taking again care to make this interesting hard no um but what i was gonna say was i see a lot of people saying in the comments on this guy's instagram page like hey we're reporting you to spotify and it sort of seemed to me that spotify might have been the main place that he was posting this because when you just type in the name of the

podcast it comes up on spotify well the link that brendan kerner put out is to the spotify link too So I wonder if that speaks to Spotify's growing dominance in the space. I do believe that they're at this point the biggest podcast distributor, right? Like they kind of – they managed to leapfrog ahead of like Apple, I guess, probably for that.

I think so, which again, it's kind of one of the reasons why we have to be careful when Spotify, as we've talked about on the show, kind of started pulling some of our episodes because we were using music. And they said, hey, you can't use that music. um we need to we need to be on spotify i think or or i don't know maybe you have different thoughts on that luke and we don't have to get into that now but um it's like the huge player in the game but i do wonder if because this has caught the the kind of public um attention right now if this will come off as potentially another kind of bad look for spotify that was the only thing i was

going with that i'm sorry that i was so blabby about it i just i i don't uh no i i think that's an interesting uh thought on this i'm i'm really i'm now i'm on the like instagram page of this guy who made the the kind of ripoff podcast and it's like he just seems like he's probably like kind of a nice he just appears to be a nice friendly kind of regular dude you know who like it's like picture of his it's like the art for the podcast it's him and uh it would appear his fiance it's him picking apples it's him picking a tomato i don't like that in the tomato photo he's wearing a Boston Red Sox hat and in the Apple photo he is wearing a Chicago White Sox hat those are natural enemies but okay putting that aside he just I bet you is I bet you is a sweet nice person who is probably today feels like he got bean dad did bean dadded you know kind of like this I didn't come up with this but I say it a lot now it's like somebody once said that like every day you know the internet decides to pay attention to one person and your job is to never be that person he must just feel like the internet just decided to totally go after him today for basically no reason i would i mean or maybe not but i'm i could see a world in which he is like this is blindsiding him because it's like i saw a story and then i i kind of put my spin on it and i got this artwork developed and i took something that i had to get the information from somewhere and i rewrote it to make it mine and i interviewed one person like it must just feel like this why is the internet torturing me today maybe or it

might just be or it might be a wide-eyed like oh my gosh i didn't i didn't realize like i feel bad

i didn't realize this is the thing i don't know if he feels victimized better person than i am yeah

i mean it takes all of us a while to get there right like we immediately are going to be um defensive and i think that's very human and again we have no idea what this guy's day is like right now but um you know i know for me i really struggle with that too and especially like i believe he was truly proud of this and he said after months of work and it was months of work because he was he well he was reaching out to people to interview he only interviewed one it looks like but if you you know for him he put a lot of work into this and he probably just did not realize like oh wait like i don't know he just grew up in a different kind of content atmosphere

and is it doesn't appear to be a journalist by training and i'm not trying to put too much like yeah too much of a halo around like journalism school but if you're you know if your background is as like a filmmaker and you're making independent films that are fiction and stuff you just probably don't know all of the kind of like sort of best practices and also if you said to me like make a podcast if i had to go find someone to do the artwork for let's say tbtl or whatever anything a podcast i'm launching and i have to figure out how to get it on the different platforms i have to figure out how to write the descriptions and then i also have to like write the script which i'm sure in his mind he wrote the script the problem was it doesn't sound like he did any original reporting so when he wrote the script it says like he was relying really heavily on brendan kerner's huge piece in the atlantic and that's not really reporting that's just repurposing someone else's stuff but i'm sure and All of this was not not time consuming for him, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, like this is a weird story because I don't actually think this guy was probably trying to do anything funky and is finally getting all this attention for this thing that he probably wanted, but now probably for kind of the wrong reason.

And potentially could get pulled because even though I mean, you know, the original journalist here, which I should be saying his name, but I've clicked away from Brendan Kerner. Brendan Kerner, you know, in his thread references all these other times, similar things have happened to him, whether it's been people writing books about his articles or other podcasts. And like, again, he's like, Brendan Kerner is being so kind of actually remarkably chill about this. He's like, he ends up by saying, I just need to whine a little bit. But like he has so many examples of people kind of quote unquote repurposing his content for profit. Right. And he's just like, and this kind of keeps happening. And so we know that this is this is just one person's thread, one journalist's thread. This is happening all over the Internet. And the lines are fuzzy. Like, again, you and I taking a a topical story that is being tossed around the Internet that was written by somebody from like the Washington Post. We have a couple of favorite writers who write our type of stuff in the Washington Post, right? Like you and I always credit those people. But, you know, there are some blurry lines about like, well, if you didn't go to journalism school and you and I, you know, were our public radio producers by trade and background, like we understand that there are some guidelines here. And I understand the confusion here. So, right. It does seem like it needs to be a bigger conversation in some way. And the conversation shouldn't just end with, well, what can you do? you know but i also don't know how do you police this stuff i wonder if this will get pulled by spotify because spotify has just had a lot of bad news lately i guess if they were to like have some

they have some sort of plagiarism rule which they would say this could i mean this could constitute plagiarism or lack of attribution i mean the thing is it does seem like it's it's not that hard to just attribute things you know like i mean you could i would imagine legally you could do a podcast where it's like you well we're doing a version of that but like if this guy wanted to do this podcast about this crazy story he read in in the atlantic he could do a podcast called this crazy story i read in the atlantic yeah right and the show could be him going like doing 10 episodes of just describing this article which he's attributing and giving his response to it that's i guess in that case you're generating what would be considered sort of new content right yeah yeah just taking this original reporting and then just rewriting it and then just presenting it without doing anything new to it beyond just maybe you structured a sentence differently um maybe that is something that spotify can actually prohibit yeah and i think

that you and i just spent a lot of time kind of getting into this guy's mindset of saying like and i truly believe that i i think that he probably did not think of this as plagiarism but i want to make very clear i'm not defending what he did just because he looks like he's a nice guy like he's in the wrong here certainly i think that he just didn't know he was in the wrong and i'm wondering like and now that we talk about it just to put the shoe on the other

to put the other hat on the head the white socks versus the red socks is he a fan of teams that have socks in the name he's a fan of socks he's a socks fan of just any team that's got socks

the bay socks absolutely um but um anyway i do obviously i want to make it very clear that he is in the wrong here he may be learning for the first time he's in the wrong here but and also I'm just starting to think like if he really is kind of proud of this and saying after many months of doing this and you know we know that there's evidence that he tried reaching out to some people to interview them like he I feel like he must have had at least one other source as he's like transcribing this and turning this into a podcast script he must even if even if that other source was just like and he didn't realize it was just another like kind of hack journalist rewriting the original story like i don't understand how you can just sit down with one let's say print out let's say he's like you luke no the whole point is he's young in a different generation he doesn't print anything out right that you sit down chat he sits out with one snapchat of this long ass article that took somebody nine years to write and to base everything on that and never once say to yourself oh i should mention where i'm getting this seems really i mean that's

beyond the pale we should hold him accountable for that well i mean again i he's being held very accountable in the sort of court of twitter opinion and instagram opinion so you know i think that i i think that you know this will work itself out one way or the other but it is something i'm sure that we'll see more and more of and and you know unfortunately i mean the downside is as there's less and less money for real reporting yeah real journalism the kind of like boring just making a hundred phone calls which side note was never really my game like I'm not saying that that was like I came up in that culture I was a pretty crappy reporter who would kind of like you know the only enterprising stories I ever found or enterprise stories were always about nothing they were about how Tom Tancredo and Steve King were often mixed up in Congress because they physically looked like each other That's funny I did think that was a pretty funny story But I never had any enterprise journalism Where it was like I never uncovered anything of importance I always just kind of like So I'm not saying that I was one of these reporters But as there seems to be This is why I loved that story In the Washington Post last week About the hyperpolyglot Which was written by I'll just mention See Andrew I have the paper here but it's in the yeah jessica contrera writing in the washington post um that just was a great piece of enterprise journalism and i feel like there's less money and time for that you know at least in the sense that sure okay the washington post uh is a very you know is a very i believe very profitable paper and it's owned by jeff bezos but also you've got the the washington post the new york times you've got some national papers that are doing well but you used to have like local papers that had people who all their job to do all their job was was just to do deep investigative reporting and that i just think is like those positions are getting eliminated left and right so as that kind of stuff goes away um and yet there's more profit in just basically getting onto the podcast and like repeating something that you heard somewhere like i don't know if that's if that's going to lead to more daylight being shined on more things if those are the media

trends we're dealing with right and I mean I like some of my favorite pieces have been enterprise reporting like the story about Captain Kirk getting in the argument with Spock that was just deeply deeply sourced and you know I think that was war was that Woodward and Bernstein was that

it was Woodward and Bernstein

here i go once again with the email every week i hope that it's from a female no man

it's not from a female i do think woodworth and bernstein pretty strong show title very

good contender i just wrote it down because what else did we have um oh the conservation of albanians kind of comes off wrong outside of context i think yeah right

eastern year it's not yeah you know that part of the world is dealing with enough yeah exactly no

that's definitely a front runner let me play a couple of um voicemails for you here if i may a little bit of background on this first one um sorry i had to remind myself what these were I'm really looking forward to playing this one because it's going to anger you so much just wait for it wait it's not no just you're not personally attacked in this I promise it has nothing to do with you it has everything to do with disc golf now you had an issue with disc golf you you don't like the name disc golf or the fact that they try to make it like a version of golf right you have no problem with the game itself it's just the comparisons to golf that drive you a little bit nutty I think the game is pretty cool

actually and i've been seeing a lot of footage of it on tiktok and i'm really i'm impressed at the abilities of the people that participate in this i'm just saying i think they're doing the sport a disservice to be so obsessed with the golf terminology it's not unlike how in seattle we had a football hype song that was based on the pittsburgh steelers hype song black and yellow yeah like name your sport a different thing and don't call the frisbees putters and drivers because it just feels like you're a diminished version of this thing that's widely popular when you are your own cool thing, which I have to say I'm impressed by.

That's why, you know, people keep, like Rick Riz keeps on referring to the Mariners as the cardiac kids because they've been winning a lot of, like, one-run games the last season and seem to be continuing that this season when they're not getting hammered. But, of course, that used to bother me when the Cleveland Browns still existed because the Cleveland Browns were classically the cardiac kids. There's already a team, a classic era of a team called the Cardiac Kids, which were the Cleveland Browns, I believe, in the late 70s, early 80s. And so I'm always like, how are you doing that? You can't just take another team. But what are you, Jesse Rapoport? But since the Cleveland Browns don't exist, I don't care. So here, take a listen to this voicemail from our pal Marissa.

Hey, boys, it's Marissa in Maryland. So my husband, so he is deaf, so I can say whatever I want, and it's not going to get back to him, is a gigantic. romantic disc golf nerd like he has an official uh member number and he has a huge collection of discs and he like takes every opportunity he can to go disc golfing and he gets the official disc golfing magazine which is how i learned that disc golfers call golf ball golf you're welcome no mountain too tall i love it okay you know what you've sold me

that actually is that's so great that i'm i'm into it i'm you they that has won me over that

is that is the most hilarious that that is your reaction i thought that was a bridge too far

no it's it's like no it's it's the exact length of bridge they needed to go on for me which is like i mean as soon as you start as soon as you have to specify what the much more widely embraced thing is oh you mean the golf master yeah right you know like i love that that

to me is actually really funny like when i would because i for the longest time the only basketball games i'd ever seen just by circumstance happened to be women's basketball games because when i was working at the radio station i would go to storm games they would give us tickets and um you know And I'm not a big basketball fan, so I would always refer to men's basketball as men's basketball or the MNBA in this house. Kind of a similar thing. Speaking of what things are called, by the way, I mentioned that and I kind of I kind of realized I was wavering on this. Growing up, we called edge trimmers weed whackers or weed eaters. I think actually weed eater is what I used to say. And at some point it became a weed whacker. And then we got this voicemail from somebody who found out what they're called in Canada.

Hi, friendos. I was listening to your conversation about Weed Whackers, which is what I, an American growing up in the Midwest, called them. But when I moved to Newfoundland, Canada for grad school, they called them Whippersnippers. I don't know if that's a Canadian thing, but I liked it. Power out.

I think job done whipper sniffer is it whipper sniffer sniffer or snipper did he scritch or let's look it up because snipper would make more sense but it sounded like sniffer to me whipper snipper yeah whipper snipper so you're right about that so what you know when you're using your whipper snipper make sure not to bonk your noggin and tumble no you know what whipper

snipper works to be more than weed eater yeah no you're right because it's getting whacked They're getting snipped and whipped. They're just not getting eaten.

Yeah, I'm with you.

Hey, can I read you one email on the subject of yard maintenance tools? Yeah, because I'm done. This is from listener Michelle, who says, Ahoy, ahoy, Andrew and Luke. Just your friendly Ace Hardware employee letting you know how much I love Ace Talk. Because remember when you were mentioning that there was a – was it the the plug-in lawnmower or was it the weed was it the whippersnipper at your house that is a from made by a company called works that's the whippersnipper yeah the whippersnipper and i said i thought maybe that was an i just remember seeing that brand a lot and i i misattributed it i said i thought it was the ace hardware generic brand and michelle says uh listening to the last friday's discussion of works outdoor power equipment uh and almost identifying it as ace generic no no i realize maybe you need an ace liaison so you never make these kinds of mistakes again i'm kidding i'm not kidding at all um love you guys um looks like michelle is i don't actually know uh oh michelle is in northern well her region is northern illinois wisconsin and the upper peninsula so michelle was probably very upset about the whole mackinac thing as well I just want to say I am constantly amazed At how great the employees At Ace Hardware are It's come up on the show a bunch of times But it's like It should be a Harvard Business School Paper How do you There are other places like this Where it's like From a company culture How do you do it so that When the customer walks in They just have a great experience with the employees and even if i they may not well one thing i'm always shocked at how much stuff they have like these ace hardwares are they're in urban you know settings they're not in these giant sprawling lowe's or home depot size things i guess they're also not selling lumber and stuff but it's like i'm always like wow they actually have a lot of stuff in here and everyone knows where everything is and there's just some kind of training program or hiring practice or something that just has it so everybody i've just never had a bad experience with any of the employees and i and that's just

in multiple locations by the way oh yeah it's it's fascinating to me how you achieve that as a

company and they enjoy problem solving with you i i ace is number one for me if i can go to any hardware store i will go to the ace in maple leaf which used to be closer to my to my old house but i'll still make the drive it's not that far away um and those folks are great but i also want to say this is something i've been thinking about a lot because i've been making a lot of trips to Lowe's and Home Depot as we've been settling into this house and um it is astounding so there is a Home Depot on Aurora not too far from me and there's a Lowe's on Aurora not quite across the street but a couple of large blocks down the road like not far away at all and the difference and peace and love peace and love to anybody who is loyal to the Home Depot or works at the Home Depot Or if Mr. or Mrs. Home Depot are listening right now, thank you. I hope you will become a dazzling donor. But my God, the difference between a Lowe's and a Home Depot is staggering as far as customer service and general presentation is considered. And again, this is kind of a rougher area. In fact, one time we went into the Home Depot. Did I tell you this on the show? Somebody was stealing some sort of huge, large piece of power equipment. like we walked in and the young kids who are kind of working there are looking confused and they're all looking out the window we're like what's going on you can just tell that we walked into something and then somebody's like yes wheeling a table saw out yes yes almost literally we couldn't see what the box was but somebody said yeah no that is him he just walked out of here and like we see you can picture the home depot luke it's a huge parking lot you know and then it leads to aurora and this person is already up almost at aurora pushing this thing up that hill in the parking lot if you can picture it a huge ryobi or ryobi box you can see it's the black and green on top of a on top of a shopping cart i have no idea what the piece of equipment was they were so far away at that point there was nothing anybody could do and also i wouldn't encourage the um 21 year olds who are working at the home depot on aurora to be um phoenix jonesing this shit themselves you know what i mean call the cops report it tell the bosses whatever but um yeah somebody just like walked right out just like they weren't it was a pretty bold move anyway that's the home depot where things just seem so much sketchier like we tried to get some keys made there and like these slack they wanted to keep a copy they didn't with our address they didn't like they we had three keys to make they begrudgingly made one and said they couldn't make keys out of the other which was just not true because other people could like they were in just like there were like three of these people standing around trying to make keys for us and everybody just looking dead-eyed and stoned and then like you go across the street to Lowe's and like everything is so buttoned up everybody is so helpful I was there yesterday or the day before and just wandering around looking for stuff and I was stopped three times uh by employees asking me to leave the store

no just asking if I could find everything okay if they could help out at Home Depot you could wander around forever and never see a human willing to help you I that's my experience hasn't

been quite as extreme in the difference but I have I have experienced what you're talking about which is I because when I was in Bellingham and we were doing tons of home projects you know sometimes you'd go to Lowe's somebody go to Home Depot and I certainly I think had a a better experience at Lowe's than I did at Home Depot although not again not as like drastic as you're describing but like I may have made this sort of point before on the show but I feel like in any of those environments you get kind of like you usually get one of two there's only two kinds of like home improvement store employees if we're not talking about ace so like the big box stores or whatever it's either the like kind of retired person or person who's like doing this because they just love telling people about plumbing fittings and stuff who's just like knows so much more about this topic than you would ever expect um like if my dad were to work at lowe's If you found Walt in a Lowe's and you were like, what kind of fixture should I use for this? And he'd be like, well, you could do this or this. He could give you like an hour of advice on this. Or you get the person who just stands next to you and looks at the same wall of stuff that you're looking at. Yeah, exactly. And just a little bit of drool coming up. I'm trying to find some kind of a quarter-inch santee for this P-trap I'm putting together. And then I'm looking for this kind of wrench. And then that person just comes and stands next to you And also looks for the wrench Like they are another set of eyes technically But like you've already scanned the area endlessly That's why you've gone and found someone Those are the two kinds of people that work in those stores

I walked into Home Depot the other day And what was I looking for? I think outside like fence sealer Like wood sealer and stain, right?

and i walked in i'm in the store for like two seconds employee passed me by hey there anything i can help you with and i just i didn't even use a sentence i just said stainer and sealer and he said aisle 38 way back there and neither one of us even stopped walking and it was just like i mean there are like 50 different sections and he just knew section 38 back there it was amazing yeah so well i guess i guess we know i guess we know what sort of family y'all are now right Yeah, we should do a live show at Lowe's Lowe's just needs to get Here's the thing though, Home Depot has the cool Like motivational Song market cornered That's the problem Lowe's, to the degree that it's even a competition It's that kind of very Propulsive It's where doers get Things done, where doers get more done Doers get more done Yeah, let's do it Let's take on this I don't I don't like that I like um yeah you're building that fence a little taller because you got a whole situation with your neighbor you called her a Karen even though she actually had a point because you were over the property behind put on those Oakley Blade gargoyles and your Blue Lives Matter t-shirt and get to work How did you find this whole song? It's just on YouTube. It's a whole meme on TikTok, by the way. I may have mentioned this to you before, but it's very funny. Like these real Gen Z kids will put that music under their dad, making them get to the airport three hours early. It's like any time their dad is just dadding it really hard, it's with the Home Depot music under it. That is when you should get to the airport, by the way. Just for the record, I'm not a dad, but I know that. Okay, no more talking about parking. Okay, no more talking about parking before we've even gone in. By the way, we know that this is the best and truest jingle in the hardware space. Ace is the place with the helpful hardware, folks. Ace is the place with the helpful. Don't they have a version, too, where they, like, double-clutch it on purpose? It's like, there used to be one where they were like, Ace is the place with the helpful, knowledgeable, something else, folks. Oh, I don't know. Like, they kind of did a little, like, Liberty Biberty. like it was a knowing spoof on their jingle I didn't know that I like the original no need to gild the lilies it's true though it's true you gotta give it to them yep and it's accurate yes that's what I'm talking about it's both true and accurate alright it's not funny because it's true let's that's the joke alright that's gonna do it for today's show thank you very much for spending this time with us we'll be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for you. So please do join us then. Until then, have a great Tuesday. Take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and please remember, no mountain too tall. And good luck to all.

I should not have brought up baseball I understand my mistake my mistake you got to know your crowd power out

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