Muse

Listen, wife's going out tonight. I'm going to have the guys over. We're going to watch the fish on the big screen. I'm going to grill up some brats. I got a microbrew chilling in my wet bar. And I was going to warm up some ziti. Why don't you come by if you got some triple fried pizza dough, or some kind of frozen meatballs, or whatever it is. You can warm it up in my microwave, or you can warm it up back at home. Bring it over pipe and hop. And if you want to bring over a vegetable medley, a crudite, figure out how much lunch meat you can spare, maybe bring over pound and a half, two pounds of Black Forest ham, maybe a Dijon mustard spread. Any kind of dessert, maybe a German chocolate cake or something like that. I tell you what would make you a big hit with the dudes is get some key lime pie, a la mode. I'm talking about ice cream on the side. And you have got to have a bite of my homemade ziti. I'm just going to warm her up. She's been in the freeze.

Thanks for the invite.

You know, I love her, those hot mozzarella sticks. Cube them up, put them in some marinara sauce. You have them on standby. Of course, you can't go wrong with some sour cream and onions so long as you bring ridged chips.

Yeah.

TBTL.

Well, hello, good morning, and welcome to day three of the TBTL Summer Games. My name is Luke Burbank. Hello. Right over there is my friend, Andrew Walsh. Hello.

Hello, Luke. It is getting steamy in my studio, and I don't mean that in a sexy way. I do not mean it in a sexy way. You know, somebody pointed out, I've mentioned on the show many times that my new studio here has wood paneling, but I think a lot of people were picturing this sort of shiny old school wood paneling that you would find in your uncle's basement. Like with basically vertical stripes. Right, exactly. But no, it's like a soft wood, and it's actually horizontal stripes. And as my friend Hannah pointed out the other day when she was here for the first time, she said that it's like a sauna without the heating elements. That's exactly what the wood is like. Here it is, the middle of the summer games. As you would guess, things are getting hot outside these small windows I have, and things are getting hot in here, and it actually feels a bit like a sauna. But I guess that's appropriate for the summer games.

Even though you're in a basement, even though you're subterranean, I would think it would be staying nice and cool down there.

Yeah, I'll bet you it's hotter upstairs, so I should be careful what I'm complaining about.

I'm dealing with a bigger problem, Andrew, which is that I am so hungry, and every single thing that Tim Heidecker is describing in that intro, I want to eat. I want to eat some ridged chips. I want to cube up some mozzarella. I used to do that all the time. Not cube it up, not even mozzarella, but I would buy this stuff called bread cheese, which has a not unlike halloumi, those are both cheeses that base I know this isn't a conversation you care about, Andrew, but this is between me and the listeners, so just calm down. Okay, sorry, I was being obnoxious there i apologize yeah with all your sauna talk i want to talk about melting cheese there are these kinds of cheeses that actually don't melt in the pan they have i guess what would you call that a higher melting point or something like you can fry them up and they don't just turn into a puddle of cheese and my big move particularly when i live back in bellingham i should get back into this that was when i was living that hashtag low carb lifestyle but i would just like get halloumi or bread cheese, fry it up, and then just eat that with some tomato sauce and basil. Oh, mama mia. Wow. That was really good.

That was the perfect. Are you Italian? On my mother's side, yes. I see. Gotcha. Actually, that's not true. No, no, no. That's...

No.

No.

I'm Irish on my mother's side, and then part Irish and part Albanian on my biological father's side. And of course, the Albanian part was, I saw, I saw a, uh, probably an Instagram ad targeted me. I don't know if they've figured out my 23 and me, but it was for Albania, basically the tourism department. And it was just somebody swimming in this like unbelievably beautiful water. And it was like low cost vacation. I don't think Albania is the first place. A lot of people think to go for their vacation, but I would check it out. sense it's kind of like a poor man's italy like a lot of the same stuff but just the not famous version but like from a geography and and and kind of like recreational uh standpoint it's similar and i was watching i was like i might have to go get in touch with the motherland it looked

so tranquil i was into it yeah okay so it's right there by greece so yeah beautiful part of the

maybe greece is a better analog for it yeah now andrew it's interesting that i would be wanting to return to the motherland to finally get some sort of mental and emotional closure on my biological father's side of the family, who I have limited interaction with. Of course, I never really met him. Because today on the show, we are going to get hardcore psychoanalyzed, right? Is that what's happening? I think... so we have a family i mean the fact that you're bringing up family specifically is interesting because we have a guest who's going to be coming on here in a little bit we've been talking about this all week we have a listener named kirk kirk honda i don't usually use listeners last names on the show unless we're thanking him for money i don't know i got a bunch of weird rules anyway but he's going to be on the show so we're given full name here kirk honda and he um is a family therapist and he's got this podcast that's been around for a long time the psychology of seattle podcast is the name of it he's not on the line right now we'll give him a call in a little bit but he reached out to me a few weeks ago and said hey i have a a game for you that's kind of based on psychological questions uh questions that are kind of like trivia questions that are somewhere at the intersection of psychology and tbtl topics and i said all right why he's i can send it your way i said how about you don't send it my way i said it that way just rude i was like how about you don't send it my way kirk then i felt bad about it so i came back to him i'm like why don't you come on the show and give us the quiz so you and i i guess we'll kind of be i guess we'll kind of be competing against each other and we'll have kirk on the line and he'll be kind of like

healthy to me andrew yeah well you say that it makes me feel stressed out well i appreciate the your feedback on that andrew but i it feels to me like if we are a team trying to get the right answer okay long term that could be more beneficial to our relationship okay yeah oh hey nice i'm very agreeable and that's before our psychiatrist is even on the show so i'm already winning you know when i walked out i walked out of a couples counseling session once like stormed out which i think showed him definite definitely didn't undermine carrie's point like i was like this is a triad this is me and carrie and our therapist and we're talking and i'm you know i don't know i don't think you've ever been to couples counseling maybe you don't want to talk about that but like it's interesting because the dynamic in couples counseling is often often like you want to seem like the person in the relationship who is having it together and is like your complaints are legitimate and i mean it's not a competition and of course if you go into it if you go into it really wanting to get some benefit, you should not be thinking of it as a competition. But there's also, it's hard to turn that part of your brain off.

Sure, of course.

So to the degree that you kind of would like the therapist to quote-unquote side with you, or kind of just give your argument a certain extra weight, if you will, storming out of the conversation, leaving is a definitely, you're moving into second position in terms of who the therapist trusts.

Yeah, or even if not competition, just like you want to feel heard, right? And you want to be right maybe in a certain way. And if you have something that's private between you and another person, and then there's a third person there who can take on a vibe of this person is the arbiter of who's right and who's wrong. And that's not really what it should be or what it is. But you want to feel like, oh, okay, well, then I do have some points here. And if you feel like things aren't kind of lining up to your point of view, you can get very defensive very quickly. One can, I should say, not you, but also you.

Well, maybe what I should do is ask Kirk Honda when we come back if it was bad when I stormed out of couples therapy. Maybe we can start with that.

And I want to know which of us he likes better, so that'll be my first question for him.

And if I don't like the answer, I'm out of here. I am out of here. You're doing the rest of this episode with him. Exactly. All right, quick break, and then we'll be back with more TPTL Summer Games. Stay with us. And we're back with our friend and listener, Kirk Honda, family therapist and host of the Psychology of Seattle podcast. Kirk, welcome back to TBTL. I say back because we recently played a voicemail from you that is seared in my brain about possible catacide that you unwittingly committed.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I revealed to you that therapists can panic lie at times.

Yes, indeed. I felt extremely, it was, I don't, gratified is the wrong word, but I felt less sketchy to know that also even someone who has spent years training themselves in therapy can sometimes panic lie. So thank you for giving me that gift. Appreciate it.

Sure, sure. Well, as long as my mild sketchiness can validate your moderate sketchiness.

i suffer from i suffer from mild to moderate sketchiness show title um hey i'm writing it

down mild to moderate sketchiness kirk i have some questions for you right out the box here um the first one i worry might come off as being i don't i think rude is a strong word uh maybe just slightly just mild mild to moderately impolite but my question is how do you have time to do this with us today we're recording this uh in the middle of a work day and i know that you're a family therapist and i i texted you i'm like hey would you be available

tomorrow between the hours of like three and four and you responded immediately to my I mean to my pleasure you responded almost immediately and said yep I'm available but I gotta be honest with you I thought did you cancel an appointment are there people who need you right now and you're goofing

around with us no I love this your podcast so I would you know drop anything but no I didn't have to I didn't have I wasn't doing anything this afternoon this was just going to be my after nap

time kirk i'm telling you i love hearing that you also nap in the daytime because when i can sneak one in i love to take a little daytime nap and i i mean we've talked about over the years on the program but it hasn't come up a lot lately i feel like there is still pretty big stigma around that maybe even more so during the pandemic because people are working from home and maybe some supervisors are like are we getting our money's worth from these folks but there's absolutely nothing I like more than a little afternoon cat nap if I can get one oh yeah well I can't function

without it so you know who cares about stigma I can't I can't survive without it so did you

actually take a nap today are you in the because that's my we'll get into the quiz in a second here everybody calm down um but um the problem for me with napping is for like an hour after the nap I am just I'm I'm I'm so disoriented and sluggish did you take a nap today and are you in that post

nap haze yeah well that doesn't normally happen to me i've i hear that from other people including my wife by the way but i don't have that and but i did kind of today because i i my nap was like almost an hour which isn't normal and i felt so sluggish that i actually took a covid test but it ended up being negative because i was like am i coming down with something did you just take

the covid test to wake you up because i'll do that too sometimes if i can't wake up i'll just

chop it up into a line that's not how we take covet tests so kirk one last quick napping question do you feel like i and maybe this is something that you've actually even looked at from a more formal standpoint as a therapist but i for me napping is can be a stress reaction like sometimes i'll have live wire and it's a live show and there's going to be a big audience and i'm nervous about it and i will feel very exhausted at like let's say sound check is at five it'll be 330 and if i can possibly knock out a 45 minute nap i will whereas a lot of other people if they're feeling nervous they would have a hard time sleeping being nervous puts me to sleep is that a

medical condition do you have that yeah so i mean i'll try to be brief because i don't want to be boring but yeah it's known for some of us that you know we have the fight flight responses to stress but we also have the freeze appease and faint and also just kind of shutting down and uh but i'm similar to you that when i get nervous i start yawning a lot i noticed this when i was in high school i thought this is weird but yeah it's a stress reaction to what we perceive as danger and we're just kind of turning off as a way of you know how some animals they'll they'll just kind of freeze in place because they want to avoid getting eaten by the predator. That's kind of what you and I are doing.

It's definitely been much appreciated by people I've been in relationships with where we're having an argument and I go to sleep in the middle of the argument. It's seen as a high level of engagement in these important topics. But now I can just say, I have a medical condition.

Well, yeah, just tell them you're possuming or something, you know? Yeah.

Have you had, do you ever do couples therapy, Kirk, or do you just do one-on-one typically?

Yeah, I definitely work with couples. Yeah, why?

Do you have, this was before we took the break, so you haven't heard this part yet, but I was mentioning a time that I stormed out of couples therapy, which really probably didn't help sort of substantiate my argument of being a normal person or a person who's everything I'm saying makes perfect sense. and I'm not being triggered or overreacting. Have you had people storm out of therapy, like a person? And then at that point, it's just, does the other person win? The person who has not stormed out of therapy, are they automatically declared the winner, like Mike Tyson's punch-out holding up little Mac's arm? Is that what you do?

100%. I mean, that's all I'm looking for with couples is, like, who's winning. And, yeah, you just lose at that point.

Yeah, yeah. Does the fact that Luke asked who wins therapy mean that he's getting a lot out of therapy?

Yeah, yeah. yeah okay well thank you those were all of the and and uh i can see kirk that we're almost at

the end of our time here so that's the thing i would get a lot from my therapist you've been waiting forever to turn the tables are you you're a psychologist is that technically the term psychologist We'll be right back.

oh it's still boring to go to the week never mind just call me a therapist just call me a therapist

okay and a podcast host and it's psychology of seattle right i got that right the name of the

podcast in seattle in seattle oh the psychology is a big big big word because the psychology in seattle is uh talking about psychology but also in seattle but psychology of seattle sounds like

you're psychoanalyzing seattle yeah yeah oh okay my apologies for that i'll correct the record

Well, I named my podcast in 2008 when the Internet wasn't really what it was, and I thought I would just be a local thing. But then when it became more popular, I regretted naming it ever since.

What would you call it now if you could? TBTL. Too beautiful to heal. All right. TBTH. Okay, should we get into the quiz now? Let's see. We are already – yeah, I think we have time to start the quiz now. Now, we're going to have to continue this quiz tomorrow, though, right, Luke? Like, there's no doubt about it. Yeah, definitely.

Unless you storm out of the quiz at some point, in which case I'm automatically declared the winner.

Okay, Kirk, well, correct me if I'm wrong. I already told the audience that this is kind of a quiz that's based on psychological trivia, but also where it kind of intersects with TBTL interests. I believe that's how you described it to me. Is that good enough? Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay, good.

Also, Dr. Kirk, should we have been referring to you as Dr. Kirk throughout? I apologize. You have your doctorate. We've been underselling that. We've just been calling you regular old Kirk.

I mean, if you feel like it. But, you know, I feel like I get enough respect anyway, so I don't need any more.

No, I like Dr. Kirk. I think it adds a little kind of legitimacy to what we're doing, that an actual doctor will come on here and give us a quiz. Daddy Dr. Kirk.

Daddy Dr. Kirk.

When you hear yesterday's episode, Kirk, if you do, that'll make way more sense, I promise. Okay.

All right, Daddy Doctor, what do we got? Are you all set to give us question number one?

Yeah. All right. All right. So this is true or false for the two of you. So we have misophonia, which is hatred of hearing human noises like chewing. I know y'all have talked about that before. So you have misophonia. is it more uh misophonia is more common than misokinesia which is hatred of people making small movements like fidgeting so true or false misophonia human noises like chewing is more common than misokinesia which is hatred of people making small movements like fidgeting

i feel so are we it's a given that um the second one is a real thing as well so the question is which one is more common the the phonia or the kinesia it's got it i feel pretty strongly luke

that is misophonia like i'm not saying that i think the other one is you do you really you've

heard a lot of people complaining about that well i know but i think people it's probably undiagnosed but i think there are i mean listen as a kid growing up people were often telling me stop fidgeting more people were telling me stop fidgeting than were telling me stop eating m&ms

into that microphone well then things really change in your adult life i think then maybe Maybe we have to – I think we have to submit differing opinions here. I think I have to go with – Dr. Kirk, we had made the plan before to be a team, but already this alliance is breaking down. I will walk out this door so goddamn fast. I'm going to go with – I think the way you had to set it up, that would be a true from me, dog. Yes, misophonia is more common than misokinetica or whatever.

I am saying misokinetica is a third Spiral Staircase album, actually, and it's not bad. I am going to say false. I'm going to say misokinesia. Again, this is actually more common in people.

Well, Luke, ding, ding, ding. If you have your bell there, you should give yourself.

I sure do. Damn it. I'm mad not that I got this wrong. I'm mad because I had no doubt I was right. And that's a rarity.

So that's another thing. We call it Dunning-Kruger. But yeah, so what percentage do you think report each one when they ask people?

Well, I'm the wrong person to ask. I'll leave this to Luke.

Well, so like out of 100 people, if they're asked, do you find it annoying when people fidget? Is that how I would be trying to describe?

Yeah, how many people say they have misophonia and how many people percentage-wise have mischinesia report that?

I would say 10% of people say they have misophonia, and I would say— Oh, that's good. 12%, but that's very close. 25% say they have misokinesia.

Also very close. 20%. Very good. Very good at this. I've been to a lot of therapy.

You must be annoying a lot of people around you.

I was going to spend a lot of money on Lisa Weinberg over the years. Wow, wow. I am surprised. I've never heard anybody. I like this game. Let's just do this for the rest of the summer games. Dr. Kirk, do you have about 12 hours to stay with us?

Well, I might need a nap in the middle.

You and me both.

All right, what's number two? During the mandatory lockdowns, extroverts were more likely to break the rules and go outside. True or false?

it seems like it would be an obvious one there. You're extroverted. It's harder on you. You're going to do it. But like, if it was that obvious, I don't think it would make it to the quiz. See, I'm using game theory, Luke. Are you taking notes? Yeah, because I'm doing so well dimensional checkers. Yes, exactly. It's called connect four. Actually,

that is basically like three dimensional checkers in that. They're just like lined up and down.

You're playing three dimensional connect four. I'm going to, I don't know why, but I'm going to say that that is false because I feel like it would be a weird question if it weren't.

I'm agreeing with you, Andrew. I'll also say that's false because it is counterintuitive. But I'd be really interested. Well, first of all, I hope we're right because then I want to hear Dr. Kirk's take on why it would be that introverts were actually going out more. But first, can you reveal the answer? Is it true that extroverts were going out more than introverts or false?

uh do you have that sound effect like i did get my sound effect thing i'll give myself that you button hooked us i did i did i i i lobbed one on the plate and you just you just thought it was going to be a ball or something so yeah extroverts are more likely to break the rules and go outside which is interesting to think you know but it kind of makes sense because they want to socialize they don't they need to be with other people yeah absolutely it makes so

much sense that i got it wrong did you see during the pandemic dr kirk um people who were sort of tended towards being introverted or you know kind of i would just say staying home or staying out of social situations i know that the beginning of the pandemic the kind of joke was like hey this is great for me. I've been waiting for this my whole life. But did you see like deleterious effects on some people where even though their tendency is towards introversion, having like zero social interaction is maybe not so great for people?

100%. Yeah. I mean, it's a bit of a myth that introverts aren't interested in socializing. They're just not interested in socializing larger groups. So 100%. Yeah. I mean, the research is showing all sorts of negative effects on all sorts of, in all sorts of domains, including that one for sure.

I was listening to that podcast, The Gist, that our pal Mike Peska does, and he was talking to a guy who wrote a book about loneliness, and this is something that you probably already knew, Dr. Kirk, but I hadn't really thought about it, which is that loneliness is not necessarily connected to if you're hanging around with people or not. Like, it's not just, you need to be around more people, because of course, you can be lonely in a crowd. Loneliness is its own kind of weird category. Yeah. I mean, being heard and

understood and feeling like people care about us, even if it's from afar, right? Even if you feel like people love us and care about us and are thinking about us, but we're not physically with them, you know, that can absolutely help with loneliness for sure. Yeah. Okay. So I, we both

got that one wrong. So not that we're keeping score because as they say, we're not lonely,

Yeah, you're together on that. You're together on that. Thank you. It's true. Good point.

We're losing, but we're losing together, and there's at least something to that. Nice. Okay. What's next?

Older adults are less satisfied with their body appearance than younger people. I chose this one specifically for your podcast because I know from the early days there's been talk of this topic.

topic I think well hold on I need to make sure that you I'm right in the way you form that question but I'm gonna say false because you might think that hey I'm getting older I feel bad about my body because my body is changing so much in a way that society has deemed less attractive however and maybe this is just me and some of the people around me but the older we get the more that I should say the the older we get the less we give a shit like and I know I still talk about like not wanting to play shirts and skins or go to pool parties I'm not saying I'm totally over it but i spend so much less time now worrying about my appearance than i did when i was younger even though according to a photo i saw of myself from 10 years ago i look and dress exactly the same way i did 10 years ago which is to say like a slob so um would that mean i'm answering false to this correct okay i'm answering i agree with andrew i'm gonna go Thank you.

false even though I am still much more in my head about my appearance I have sort of started to embrace the sweet release of death um aka getting older like I saw a picture of myself from when I was at a um the memorial for Mike Frizzell a while ago and uh you know I just was struck by how different I look in photos now than say 10 years ago and usually or previously and maybe when I was 30 and realizing i didn't look like i did when i was 20 i would start to feel really bad about myself but for some bizarro reason my brain was like yeah that's just what you look like now and i'm kind of i'm feeling a little bit i'm seeing a lessening i'm experiencing a lessening of intrusive bad thoughts about my appearance even though my appearance is objectively getting worse yeah but i'm just like this is well what happens when you age right yeah maybe yes objectively well Well, no, objectively.

No, because look, no, appearance is by definition, objective or I'm sorry, subjective, except mine, which is objectively.

OK, but but I just feel like I do. I have had a little bit of this subtle sense of just being kind of like, yeah, man, 46 years old, you're heading towards 50. You do what you can do. And then, you know, the rest of it is just this is what it is to be on planet Earth that i'm feeling that more than i used to therefore i will answer as andrew is uh false right we're saying false we're saying ideas that older people are more bummed out by their appearance than

younger people are no no no that older people are are oh right older adults are less satisfied with their body appearance than younger people that's false that's correct yes double ding ding ding

all right all right heck yeah is that for all the reasons that yeah that we were saying yeah yeah because we've given up on life no but no no but there is yeah i mean i i there are of course some outliers there are some people that really really really will not i was probably hanging on to the side of the cliff about as long as a person can but there is something that's just kind of nice about surrendering to the fact that and again for me and not that anybody asked but for me the part of the way that i can kind of go down this path not feeling so bad is also like exercising and trying to generally kind of eat right or at least do my various systems of fasting and such to me it's kind of like hey if i get out there and i exercise most days and i try to be sort of semi i aware of what i'm eating then the rest is just on the aging process like at least i'm because i think if i were not doing that stuff i think i would struggle i would continue to struggle pretty badly with you know not liking my appearance but but as long as i'm doing what i can then it just like is what it is it's kind of how my brain is interpreting it yeah yeah i feel the same way

absolutely yeah but i'm also looking at a picture of you you and i were about to say the same you're

a hunk and also you don't look like you're aging unless you're using like a 20 year old picture on

your website i'm literally looking at a photo too and i was about to say the same thing you don't understand you don't know what it's like dr kirk okay listen um i'm going to be the time keep your hair and say let's do one more of these and then we'll come back tomorrow and finish this quiz how does that sound to everybody i like it i like this side of you andrew i'm taking control what What do we got next? I hope it's about Doms.

Well, it's about peaks, but okay. On average, self-esteem peaks at age 29. On average, self-esteem peaks at age 29. True or false?

I think that's true. Okay, cool. 100%. I'll go false. I mean, because think about it. I don't think I probably ever felt better about myself than age 29. Maybe this is just really specific to me, but like 29 is your, you've, it's possible anyway, you've, if you've had, you know, the privilege that I had growing, going through life and all that 29 is like, you've entered adulthood. You're at an age where people are starting to take you sort of seriously, where you may have had enough time in an industry where you can actually get to do some of the kind of interesting parts of that. You know, for me, it was working at NPR in L.A., but also you don't I didn't feel old at twenty nine at all. I felt like you I felt both, you know, accomplished or accomplishing things, starting to accomplish things, but also like everything was potential. Yeah, that is that would have been for me the high watermark.

That is a really compelling argument, especially like, yeah, because at twenty nine, I still sort of felt like, well, I can literally do any job if I just had a little bit of training on it or whatever or a lot of training or a lot of work. Whereas like the older I get, I guess I see less. But I also hear from people who are older adults, which I'm becoming, you know, and some people say, like, I really didn't even find myself, find my confidence until 55. And it really like everything clicked and I had perspective on the world and I just really started to feel myself. So I'm going to I know you're not asking for another number, but I'm going to say false and I'm going to say I think it's age 55. Wow. What what what say you, Dr. Kirk? It is false. Andrew, you are right.

wow give Andrew that and give me a big god my self-confidence has never been lower

I just kicked it to the curb do you have a sense of when it is peaking yeah it well on average it peaks at 70 which is close to whoa wow 70 why are they not putting that on billboards

yeah like I mean that's some good news for for people who are like me you know on our way to 70 I mean, we're all on our way or, I guess, past 70. We're somewhere on that continuum. But, like, that makes me really happy to hear that that's what people report feeling.

Although I do feel bad for 71-year-olds when it starts to go back down. That must be a wild trip. Well, yeah. Like, what happens there? It's like 71. It's like, I just don't got it anymore. 72. I don't know.

I don't know what's going to happen. it's like that billy collins poem that i'm always citing on the show i think it's called like on being 11 or whatever it's just a kid who's writing a poem about a very melancholy poem about turning i think it's maybe the age is 11 and how the light just doesn't look the same as when they were 10 that's so funny and like that's like you know obviously it's it's an amazing poem because of we would all think of 11 as just being you know you're so much potential at that point But anyway, yeah, I'm sure hoping that I have a real self-confidence bounce back at around 70. I'd take it. I'll tell you what. Hey, let's thank our daily donors. These folks are making today's episode possible with their support, and we really do appreciate it. We appreciate Nigel Herbig of Kenmore, Washington, one of our many well-placed and highly influential politicians, local politicians that we have trying to push the TBTL agenda. That's right, to the highest levels, at the highest levels. Exactly. Thank you, Nigel. We appreciate you. Also, Maggie Lewis-Stevenson is in Georgetown, Delaware. I feel like there must have been a point in our nation's history where this would be you know, post-George Washington's heroics, where they were just naming everything Georgetown. I mean, our state, Washington, is named for him. I feel like we were, like, very pro-George Washington's contribution.

You are right about a lot of that, but actually, in this case, Georgetown was named, I happen to know this, after George Costanza of Seinfeld. It's a newer community. Oh, okay.

God, confidence dropping even further.

Well, hey, you picked the world's smartest co-host, Luke. You're going to get some of that, you know. You know what? You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

That's what Megan Sibbert always says in Chehalis, Washington, where I almost bought a Ryobi riding lawnmower from before ending up canceling the order. And now every time I drive through Chehalis, I think, what could have been? That could have been the place I got a riding lawnmower from, but I didn't. Kalina Rogers is in Bonny Lake, Washington. It's not a large lake, Andrew. It's a wee Bonny Lake. It's a wee Bonny Lake. Every year, every year. Yes, sure enough. Burnett is in Woodinville, Washington. I actually think that might be the first time I made that joke. I've had Scottish people on the brain lately, and so I've been making a lot of Scottish.

Well, that's something that we can talk to Kirk about later, too. By the way, I talked over you, and there was a tiny, tiny breakup on the line, so I just want to make sure it's Emily Burnett in Woodinville, Washington. I want to make sure that Emily got her due there because that was a technical glitch.

Thank you, Emily Burnett of Woodinville, Washington. I'm just trying to say it all in the clear. Also, it's on my recording here if you need it. And I assume, Dr. Kirk, you're recording both of us right now. Are you doing the master recording there at your place?

Yeah, exactly.

How about this? We've also got to thank Kristen Myers in Seattle, Washington. Thank you to all of our donors of the day. you have the psychology in seattle psychology in seattle podcast dr kirk what's your audio setup and also did you ever expect when you were getting your doctorate in psychology did you imagine you would also be dealing with a lot of microphones and a mixing board or whatever you use

well um i am also a musician

Thank you.

and before i was a psychologist therapist and a podcaster i like you andrew i have all these drawers filled of mini cables and i even once tried to get a job at radio shack because i loved all bits and bobs so when i started doing the podcast i just you know co-opted a bunch of my

musical stuff for the podcast oh sure yeah compared to like you know a live band and all of the different you know inputs and things like that a podcast is actually relatively straightforward

yeah absolutely in fact we need to wrap this up and we'll have you back on tomorrow to finish up this quiz but um when we were setting this up and i was like kind of you know telling you how we're going to reach out to you to do the show today you said well you know i have a podcast set up here do you want me to record myself on my end and then you can piece it together later and it can all sound like we're in the same room together and i was like no no luke and i really love the sound of a good phone line which is true so we're the only two guys right in public radio who love phone right and you seemed a little disappointed by that was that because you wanted to use like you have the equipment you want to use it or was i misreading that no i'm not disappointed just

because i'm thinking you know phone sounds so terrible but uh but at the same time later on i was talking with my wife about it and i was like you know i bet because they're from radio It, like, brings them back to those days.

Yeah, and your phone line sounds good. I think a good phone line sounds great. I don't like a bad Zoom line or, like, I heard somebody who has an actual radio show on Kixi a while back, and it was the worst sound quality. It was, like, two people on Zoom, like, using their onboard microphones. I can't even get into it.

I heard a piece on All Things Considered yesterday that was an extremely compelling piece about, it was basically a story, unless I'm mixing my pieces up, it was a very compelling piece about people who are pursuing alternative medicine for COVID, and obviously the negative outcome associated with, like, ivermectin. But they had this, like, eminent, like, doctor on, but he was on the shittiest Zoom connection. I literally, it was unintelligible. And I was like, if I was the editor, I'm like, you got to call this person back and redo it because this is I can't understand what they're saying. It was like, how did this make its way onto the national airwaves? But but yes, the basic thing is and nobody asked, but I'm just going to throw this out. The reason that I like phone tape and always liked it, and when I worked at NPR when I was a producer, literally my job was to try to make people go to radio stations to be on ISDN full fidelity because the assumption there was always higher quality audio is better. But to me the phone And you're exactly right Dr. Kirk It's because of my days in radio And also my days listening to radio as a kid Like if you're talking to A woman in Wisconsin who has the world's largest Ball of twine outside of her house That person should be on the phone Like we should not Be in a studio with the full Like it indicates That you're reaching out to someone Who's in a different look I think it just creates this like sonic texture that as the listener, I can picture both people. I can picture her by the ball of twine, and I can picture the host sitting in the studio talking into the mic, and I like that texture as opposed to everyone is in full fidelity. What I'm trying to say is, you rank at least as high, Dr. Kirk, as a lady who has the world's largest ball of twine.

I mean, we can all have aspirations, right? Yeah, exactly.

You're at your home right now. What's the biggest ball of twine you got there? Let's just do this.

Um, yeah, well, I'd have to search around, but probably not the biggest.

Yeah, okay.

All right, well, maybe we can come back to that tomorrow. Well, thank God you've got these interesting psychology questions, which we're going to hear some more of tomorrow. I'm actually really enjoying this, by the way. This is great. Good selecting of these questions, Kirk. They're, like, very relevant to—maybe you've heard the show before. That might be why you were able to pick questions that are kind of hitting us where we live. Yeah, exactly. All right. Okay, that's going to do it for today's episode of The Summer Games, but do join us tomorrow for the continuation and completion of this psychological quizzing. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thanks, Dr. Kirk, for being here today. Appreciate you. We will see you all tomorrow. Until then, have a great Wednesday. Stay safe. Please like and rate us on iTunes. And remember...

And on your Zune.

No mountain too tall. And good luck to all.

Zune.

We'll be right back.

Sounds like you're really going through some tough stuff right now. It's too bad there's not doctors for your mind.

Power out.