Muse

Hi, I'm Genevieve Telford-Warren. Can you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what it is that you do for a living, Ms. Telford-Warren? Sure. I am a social media brand ambassador for myself, for my own account, and for a third party account as well, which belongs to my dog, who's a pet, who I do also brand negotiation deals for him as well. And I do DJing also for party and events and corporate and personal and public. And I do also certified, I'm a lash tech also, but I haven't really done that in a while. but I'm still certified to do it. And I also just do negotiating brand deals from my own account as well and commercial acting as well, as well as modeling and some acting as well. That's great. When Genevieve was talking, I like really just wanted to fight her.

Like I just wanted to hit her. Yeah.

TBTL. Started from the bottom, now we're here. Started from the bottom, now the whole team here. Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch. Young Money Militia, and I am the commissioner. Oh, boy. Who keeps putting Twizzlers in the fridge? I told, is it Sarah? Crystal. Crystal does it? She likes some cool stuff.

Okay, well, Crystal, you and I are going to have another Twizzler talk. I'm sorry, but when I hear an undeserved compliment, it makes my ears want to throw up. Oh, your ears are always throwing up about something.

Wait, what? So what was the exact question? Don't worry about it. I'll move on. It's all fine. You're both little troublemakers. You're both huge in Japan. You probably have a lot to talk about. Go!

Keep things light. Don't bring up your divorce. Hey there, everybody. Welcome to a Tuesday afternoon edition of TBTL. This is the show that is, I think, without question, even after 3,995 episodes, too beautiful to live. I can't hear you. That's not true, of course, but cheer louder. Luke is out today. He's out in Los Angeles chasing his champagne dreams and caviar connections. Is that a thing? Caviar connections? Anyway, I'm in charge. Hi there. I'm hosting today. My name's Andrew Walsh.

The man or beast that I run from ain't been born.

And his mama's already dead. I plan on bringing some pretty strong substitute teacher vibes to the show today. Maybe throwing out the lesson plan a bit, rolling in that big cart with the TV strapped to it that's likely going to topple at some point and probably hurt somebody. But my way of currying favor with you guys is not necessarily to dim the lights and put on Jurassic Park or whatever it is we would be watching in science class. I know what you guys really like, and it's not me rambling here at the top of the show. It's our special guest today and co-host, someone that you know pretty well by this point, and someone who's brought some pretty big podcast energy into the studio. I feel like I have the power of a thousand cowboys running through my veins right now. Her name is Genevieve Haz. Hello, Genevieve. Hi, Andrew. Hey, thanks for filling in today. Thanks for having me. This is going to be fun. We had some heads up that this was going to happen today. Luke is working on a gig, so I posted to social media. Did I or did I ask somebody? I'm now at a level of my career, Genevieve, where I ask other people to post things to social media for me. What do you think of that?

Look at that, BDE.

But in this case, that's not true. I actually posted it myself. I like to every now and then just get my hands a little dirty, you know, remind myself of my roots. But I told folks on Slack and I asked somebody to maybe repost it to Facebook where I actually don't have an account that you're going to be on the show and that you like to talk about advice. In fact, last time you were on TBTL with me, we went through some of your favorite advice columns, your Slates advice column. Does that have a name?

I forget if Slates has a name, but we talked mostly about, I think, like Carolyn Hacks. Yeah, right. Maybe some mismanners, maybe some ethicists.

And we went through, read some examples of their columns, and then you sort of graded the responses.

Yeah, I tried to predict what they're, I said what I would say in response and what I thought they would say in response.

It's a passion of yours, advice columns.

I do like them. I like the pettier, the more, the more kind of like, I like the problems. The advice is like, eh, whatever. The advice, honestly, unless you're a totally crazy advice columnist, is generally like kind of just common sense mixed with like, go to therapy. But what I love is the advice seekers. Like the, what is the, what's the phrase or what's the saying from some, I think it's Like some Russian novelist or playwright, happy families are all the same. Unhappy families are unhappy in their own way. And that's what advice seekers are like to me. I love the space.

specificity and the and the craziness of the problem that is making somebody that is like

push someone to this last resort and i love the people who tell on themselves oh the ones who tell themselves like the guy the guy who is kind of like am i am i wrong here i've been i'm a happily married man who's been basically stalking my someone i went on one date with 40 years ago and she's not really i looked up all of her personal information by paying for a service and she's not responding to any of my messages. Should I go outside her house and hold up a boom box?

No, it's so great. I love that.

So having said all that, that is the past. That's what we did last time you were on the show. I asked folks to send in actual advice. Listeners of this show, they have problems too. And I asked if they could email in things they need advice on and then have you actually put on your Miss Manners hat or what's the other one? Carolyn Hacks hat. Carolyn Hacks, yep. Your Hex hat. Now, here's the deal. These are kind of serious. We got three emails. Like, I was kind of hoping somebody would be like, you know, my boyfriend chews with his mouth open and we have a big. Right. And he's about to meet my parents for the first time. What should I serve? Yeah.

Like, I always like anything that's wedding related. Bridesmaid drama. Mother-in-law drama. Right. Anything that's a grandparent drama. That's usually pretty fun.

Well, we're going to get our feet wet with this today. But just so you know, you're going to be taking some big bites out of some big ethical apples. Are you ready for that?

I don't know if my liability insurance fully covers everything. So just, I guess, take it all with a very serious grain of salt.

That is a good point. Do we have to do any kind of a...

Do not take this advice.

Yeah. What do you call it when you throw something at the beginning of a show? A disclaimer. A disclaimer, yeah. Okay, consider this your disclaimer.

Take no advice for me.

Advice offered on this show today is in the service of entertainment.

For entertainment purposes. That's right.

And past results do not guarantee future income or whatever they say on the finance shows. I think I almost got that, but didn't quite stick to landing. By the way, what did we watch, by the way? Speaking of like substitute teacher vibes, I just threw out there Jurassic Park.

That was a big one for us.

Because it's like kind of science-y, right? Yeah. In school.

We, no joke, they did roll out the big TV that was strapped to the cart, and we watched Jurassic Park. My science teachers would put on, and you don't have to be a substitute either. Sometimes you just had to be hungover, I think, because they would put on anything that was remotely scientific in nature or theme. Yeah, I'm trying to think what else we watched. I'm trying to think, too. I know we watched Outbreak.

Oh, wow. That one did prepare you for the future. I know, right? You didn't even realize.

I guess it was a little prescient.

You know what's weird is I remember watching a lot of Star Trek original series, but that's because I went to this Catholic school and I think we had one teacher who was really obsessed with Star Trek, but I feel like it bled into some other classes too, but they were always like religious classes or morality classes.

I was going to say because Star Trek is some of my favorite sci-fi and it is definitely sci-fi but it is it is more about it's more about ethics it's like it's like it's about morality and ethics and full it's philosophical in nature and it uses science fiction to ask philosophical questions so i think in that respect like yeah it's like not an un it's not it's it's out of

the realm of of useful teaching tools yeah i'm trying to read i think the teacher was unless you get one of the really bad holodeck ones oh yeah no holodeck this was original series i'm pretty sure i don't think they brought i don't think they brought next generation into it next generation was still in production probably at this time oh gosh yeah i guess you're right is it weird to you that i actually had a class that was called morality that i actually went to high school and had a morality class i'm serious i think paul paul prokop who i had my i had my tensions with let's say i had my frictions with as a student teacher is he the one who made you hug some kid no no no no that was oh oh sweetie that was hardcore public education that was that That was a public school teacher? Oh, yeah. No, that was abusive, where he made me put my arms on the waist of a kid I just got into a fight with, and he put his hands on my waist in front of the class and spanked us both on our buttocks with a paddle and made us say, not say, but mouth the words, I love you. That was our punishment for fighting. And he said, don't say it. Just mouth the words, I love you, while looking into each other's eyes. What was that guy into? That was public school. Yeah. That was Mr. Simmons. I almost said that was Richard Simmons. That was not Richard Simmons.

Don't even joke.

Although Richard Simmons has

Someone should check the Ye Olde Sex Offender Registry And see if Mr. Simmons wound up on it

Well, he ended up in the marble orchard As my grandfather would say This was not him, by the way If I told you once I've told you a thousand times

i love you that was richard simmons um hey i wanted to tell you about something we are going to get into this advice from listeners here in a second but um i'm a little warning here i don't know that this is a good story but something happened to me today i was going to check on our friend's cat our friends are out of town so i was it was a whole deal i got to their house and i realized i didn't bring their key so then i drove all the way back here to get the key And then you said there's a key in a lockbox at their residence you could have used. And I was like, I forgot about that. I drove all the way back. It was just kind of a morning for me. You saw me. It was a morning for me.

I know that feeling where it just feels like you can't get out of your own way. Yes. I've definitely had days like that. Some quite recently.

And my brain is just sort of like we're planning this big 4,000th episode. I think some tickets are still available, by the way, if you want to join us for the 4,000th episode taping at the Neptune Theater here in Seattle this Saturday, if you can believe it. And I say, if you can believe it, I'm sure you can believe it, but I can't believe it because so much shit's got to get done. You saw me pacing like I shouldn't say this because my colleague will hear this, but I had a frantic. I sent an email to our colleague, John, about some tech related thing, and he was about to jump on a call with the venue. So I'm like, oh, ask him about this. So I shoot that email off and then I take a shower and then in the shower, I'm thinking more about this tech issue. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you know what, what I told John in that email is just like, that's too confusing. And that's not how this is going to work. So I get out of the shower and I dry off. And now I realize, okay, he's about to have this meeting in like 15 minutes with these folks. This isn't even the story I wanted to tell, by the way. And then I'm like, shit, I got to get John on the line. So I'm like pacing around in my boxer shorts, like shouting into my phone, because my phone has a terrible microphone on it now. It's really old. So in order for people to hear me, I got to yell really loud into the phone. And I'm like, buy, buy, buy, sell, sell, sell. It was just like that was my energy that I woke up with this morning. And then I'm just sort of frazzled. And then so I'm driving probably for the second time now back to our friend's house where I'm going to go do some work, watch the cat for a while, feed the cat and just sort of hang out and prepare today's show. Right. And, you know, you and the listeners, I believe, know that I am the type of person. And this is kind of what makes me so cool is I'm the type of person who will relive conversations in my head that I've had and then cringe at things I've said, right? And sometimes they'll just hit you out of the blue. Like, you'll be driving and literally something from years ago will just, like, slam into your brain and just catch you off guard, right? Right.

They're called intrusive thoughts.

Exactly. Well, I had one today on my way to the friend's house, and I'm just like, oh, shit. That's right. I had that conversation with me and a couple of people, and the topic of football had come up. And I think my friend knew me mostly as a baseball fan and said, oh, well, you're not a football guy, are you? And I was like, I am a football guy. I'm a football guy.

When did this happen?

Recently.

Okay.

And I'm like, in the moment thinking, why did I say that? Like, I feel like actually I'm less of a football guy than I used to be. I used to follow the Cleveland Browns very closely, and then I stopped following them for moral and ethical reasons. Actually, more on that in a moment.

Yeah, is that what you learned in that class?

Yeah, exactly. And then I'm sort of thinking in my head, and you know, so now the Seahawks are my one and only team. But honestly, like how many Seahawks defensive players can I even name at this point? You know what I mean?

How many do you have to name to be allowed to be a fan?

That's a good question. And so I'm thinking to myself in the moment, I'm like, why did I say I'm a football guy? I'm like, I can't even, I can't even name that many players now. If they ask me anything about the Seahawks, I'm not going to pass this test. And then the conversation thankfully moved on and nobody followed up and said, oh yeah, well, who's your favorite defensive player, right? And I'm in the car this morning and I'm like, oh God, yeah. And I get that cringy feeling about myself, right? Yeah. And then I'm like, oh God, why are you such an idiot? And then I'm like, who was that conversation with? And I start scanning my brain. And I can't remember who I had the conversation with. And then it hits me. Genevieve, I didn't have that conversation. It was just a dream.

You know how the dream catcher came to life. So wait, let me just recap for the listeners who may have gotten lost in that tangle of a story. Have wandered into a blind alley on this one. Yes. You had a dream. Mm hmm. That someone that you had a pretty innocuous conversation in which you said that you were a football guy and then momentarily thought, oh, you know, I don't really know that much about the team anymore. You were never embarrassed about it.

I was internally embarrassed.

Right. But you were never called out about it. No. And then you were later seized with a feeling. of humiliation over this conversation that did in fact not happen then i yeah i was seized with humiliation well did you know the person in the dream was it someone like a real person yeah it

was like somebody i was just hanging out with or something you know somebody well enough to say

well you're not a big football guy like was it a real person that we know i don't well that's the

thing that's what i was like in the car today thinking like wait who did i have that conversation with and then i was like nobody literally nobody was just a friend and i don't think there was a

direct correlation to anybody in real life and just to be real clear here uh even though you're having intrusive thoughts about conversations that did not happen except in your own brain yes therapy is definitely still out of the question you know i'm a busy guy okay you know

maybe if i can get more people to uh post social media messages for me and take more of that off my plate maybe i'll find some time for therapy but um all right let's see here we should probably get into some of this advice but i have a quick question for you that also uh popped in my head today as I was uh you know walking back to my car after feeding said cat what is the lowest amount of money you will bend over and pick up if you see it in the street and I ask you that Genevieve because I have on me right now let me see if I can fish this out of my pocket a 1986 25 cent piece aka a quarter yeah I'm always gonna pick I saw that on the ground it was shiny and i felt like hey it's your lucky day i felt like a rich man having found this and then i was like would other people be so excited about finding a quarter i love finding

a quarter quarters are special not just because it's more money than a dime or a nickel but because they still have utility decreasingly of course but especially for someone of our generation a quarter is like you know money for a soda machine or something or laundry or laundry Yeah, and like we did for many years, we did laundry, and you actually had to have quarters until actually relatively recently when you could start using cards and stuff. But I think it's a little bit of a hangover effect where a quarter still feels like it has a lot of utility to you. Now, it is also, to be fair, just an amount of money that I'll stop and bend over and pick up.

A dime?

I'll probably walk past a dime.

You'll walk past a dime, so that's the cutoff right there.

Yeah.

You'll get a quarter, not a dime. Nickel, penny, forget about it.

I won't stop. I passed several pennies just the other day. Didn't even think about it. Really? Yeah.

Look at you. Must be nice to be so rich.

Yeah, I mean, I'm so rich.

I wipe my ass with pennies.

It's very uncomfortable, and it's really hell on the plumbing.

But you know what? It proves a point, and that's the important thing. What do you think is the most money you ever found?

Probably a 20.

Yeah. I found a 20 as a kid once. God, what a feeling.

I definitely remember when I found 20s.

What I found, I always found money on the ground as a kid because I think I had a Charlie Brown disease. I think I was always looking down at my feet when I walked. And one time, and often in department stores, right? Because maybe people are changing, you know, trying stuff on. I don't know. And as a little noodley kid, I remember one of my favorite things to do in a department store would to be to crawl into the little circular area. So if you can imagine a rack of clothes that's a circle, and so like shirts are hanging all the way around it. And then as a kid, I would go through that.

We had JCPenney's. and whatnots when I was a kid.

Did you do that? It was like kind of a lion, witch in the wardrobe situation.

Nothing would freak your parents out. Like, where is your kid? And they're in the center of a circular clothing rack.

Exactly. I don't know if I found it in there. I feel like I found it around there at a JCPenney's or something, but I remember finding $20. And whenever I found any kind of money on the ground, usually it would just be a quarter or a penny. A quarter to me as a kid was just like, I mean, that was huge news. But I would say, look.

Back then it was like half of a soda pop.

Yeah, sure. I mean, honestly, in the early to mid 80s, that was probably a soda pop.

Oh, maybe. I feel like when I was a kid, the going rate for a can of soda out of a Coke machine was 50 cents.

Yeah. I mean, I think that, yeah, that settled in to be the reality for a while. But anyway, I remember finding a big bill on the ground. It was $20. Did you tell anybody about it? Like an adult? Well, that's exactly it. I said, Mom, look, I just found $20. And I got to say, this was the best advice that my mom ever gave me. She said, she kind of hissed at me, be quiet. Somebody will claim it. Put it in your pocket. And I looked back. I remember being very shocked. I was like, I thought we were just celebrating this.

Remind me that if we ever find like a big stash of cash, you know, like drug money kind of cash, like we can bring your mom in on it to like help us hide, help us launder that.

Yeah. I still, I mean, this is well-worn territory on the show and probably in you and I talking off air as well. But, yeah, that is – I was just thinking about that again this weekend for some reason. I think maybe I was walking back from something by myself, and I, like – I will sometimes walk deliberately just looking for money. Like, it's such a weird thing.

Have you ever found money by looking for it?

I don't think so. Because you never will. No. But I am obsessed with – there's something about – it's like – Again, I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm a super rich person, but sometimes I buy apples. I can afford apples. Wow. It is something I can go to the grocery store, not too many, but I can come home with a few apples and eat them and enjoy them. Yeah. But when I see an apple tree on my walk to the train, it fills me with joy. I could have just eaten the biggest meal in the world. You know on the walk to the train, do you know that we passed two different apple trees? Yeah, I know where they are. I know exactly where they are. One of them is big, but somehow I think it's picked over pretty quickly. There's another one that's a little bit more secret. and they are in people's yards, but kind of hanging over the street, so I feel okay with it.

Also, you see that in both cases, the apples are all over the ground. This is clearly not some apple tree that the owners are assiduously making sure they get every piece of fruit off of.

In fact, that's so funny because there's another apple. This is just small neighborhood talk with Genevieve and Andrew, but there's a third apple tree.

We're obsessed with our neighborhood.

We really are. There's a third apple tree that we would pass on that same route to the train but they are precious about it they put the little bags over the apple and they also i'm not gonna

go inside a little mesh bag and get an apple out of it and then i think at a certain point they will

then remove the bags and maybe put the fruit out and offer it to people in a basket or something there are also people that have a little free library oh yeah no i don't think they're doing

it to be like stingy about it i think they're trying to do it to protect the health of the

fruit and then and then give it give it away yeah but for me it's better if you can just pluck it off a tree even if you have to jump a little bit to grab it and those app you know a crab apple is not as tasty as the you know whatever whatever kind of crispy what it would have like golden crisp cosmic crisp not my favorite though fuji my favorite apple i gotta say when cosmic crisp

came out first of all i was like they're still inventing apples yeah which was amazing and i

have to say like i thought i think it was a winner it's not bad it's not as i like a tart apple you

do like a tart i like a very tart like to me a granny smith like half of a granny smith and i'm like really puckered, you know?

Yeah, yeah. No, Fuji's for me, please. Anyway, we should probably get into some of these advice questions that people have for you.

All right, bring it on.

Hello, and welcome to Top Story. All right, Genevieve, what would you like to start with? Do you want to start with sports?

Yeah, okay.

This is probably our lightest Entry today

Yes, we'll try the sports one And is it okay to say that I know What the questions are?

Yeah, I ran these by you this morning Kind of briefly, but I'll read it here for the listeners It would be weird if you just Started answering it So here's one Dear Genevieve, I am someone who became a fan of sports Later in life I started watching soccer during the pandemic Just because it was there and I had lots of time to fill Eventually I got super into it And I'm really invested in my favorite teams and players, but I'm also really struggling with navigating the downsides of fandom without breaking my brain. There are the inevitable things like players I love moving on to teams that I hate, but I'm also struggling with the big moral and ethical dilemmas like sports washing and the way women are treated. Sports washing, I think, just meaning like all the moral issues that is sports washing. Is that what I mean? like all the moral issues that go along with running a huge league like this and then just like kind of.

Oh, well, I took it to mean, remember how, was it Arab Emirates, United Arab Emirates hosted, was it the UAE that hosted the World Cup kind of recently and it's like, or was it Saudi Arabia? I think it was Saudi Arabia, wasn't it? So it's Saudi Arabia. Yeah. So I think of sports washing and please correct me if I'm wrong. You're probably right. Is like when you host sports, like a big sporting event like that And you get the world, you know, you get the world to spend money and eyeballs and attention and everything on your country. And it like elides or kind of obscures that you have a terrible human rights record. Same thing with that golf league thing.

The Live Golf Tour.

The Live Golf Tour where like.

Who basically, I mean, I mean, this is probably not technically right, but it's almost like a hostile takeover of the PGA. I mean, not hot, not totally hostile.

But I don't know about professional golf is a lot. So, and I know that then there was, there's going to try to be some sort of merging of the two, but yeah, basically like they siphoned off a ton of the like talent and, and dollars and everything from the PGA initially. So I think of sports washing as like using beloved international sports and sports figures to, um, to basically like shut everybody up about your terrible human rights records.

Was it Cutter? Is that where the world cup was held? I'm really embarrassed. I listen to so much of the coverage.

I just don't watch soccer.

And I know that like some of the I know that some of the players kind of struggled with like kind of what to say when the microphones were in front of their face. But I don't. Yeah. Anyway, let's move up off of that for a second and get back to this this email seeking advice. I'm also struggling with the big moral and ethical dilemmas like sports-washing and the way women are treated. Do you have any advice on how to enjoy being a fan? Yeah, you're right, it was Cutter. Do you have any advice on how to enjoy being a fan without losing all perspective? Sincerely, a fretting fanatic.

Well, it's interesting. I feel like my sports-watching story is kind of similar, although it sounds like this listener, this fanatic, is a little bit more serious about their sports-watching than I am. but like them I I really didn't watch professional sports of any description as a kid um did really didn't understand how uh like I mean I knew how baseball was played and I would like go to a Braves game or something every now and then but I didn't follow it and even you know even now I like can barely I really don't really keep track of the standings or anything like the progress of a team is very like uninteresting to me. But football is one where I truly really didn't understand even how the game was played until I became an adult. And then we got into the Seahawks when we moved to Seattle. You were a Browns fan. And we so I learned really how the game was played and how to enjoy watching it. And because it was such a social big part of our social life in the fall i started becoming more of a fan and to the point where i was like part of a fantasy league and i was then once you have any kind of rooting interest like with the way a fantasy fantasy league creates one for you for yourself for your own points and stuff i would find myself like all weekend kind of watching you know from sun thursday through thursday sunday and monday watching

professional football what was your fantasy you had the greg olson's or the what was the olson wins the olson wins that was one of your team yeah i had the fighting nicholas cages one year which really had nothing to do with just something i thought was funny that's right i think i remember the olson wins whenever i think of greg olson i think i'm like

oh yeah that's genevieve's player uh i do love greg olson and so i found myself kind of of rearranging my schedule around watching football and it was sucking up my whole weekend and nfl in particular i'm with you it's like listen or you know to the to the person who wrote in soccer by comparison feels like it has relatively few issues although i'm sure that's just my lack of knowledge about soccer but like football nfl has terrible uh ethical problems like from the behavior of the players to the way the league treats some some offenses versus others the way um domestic abuse and violence is just completely uh whitewashed by the league and

overlooked i think international soccer has a lot of it i'm sure it's terrible i mean even like the fanatics in you know like going back to like some of like what would happen with the hooligans in europe and racism and all of that and then with the world cup stuff i think it's kind of similar to um to the olympics when it comes to corruption oh yeah you always hear bad yeah and and again like letting letting countries that shouldn't be hosting these events host these events and just

like print money yeah so so that is all to say i feel like in a way i've been where you are just maybe probably to a lesser extent and i actually did make a decision for myself a couple years ago which was to kind of split the difference i do we have good friends who've said i'm done with the NFL I don't watch it anymore um thinking of Nick Jarin um I think he just he's an NBA guy

and he's just like I don't do NFL anymore John Sklaroff yeah same deal okay so so it's you know he was a big football fan Jets fan long-suffering Jets fan yeah so like that's that's an absolute

uh like respectable commendable position to take but I also understand like it can be hard and I don't want to give up um watching a Seahawks game on a on a Sunday afternoon with my with my pals so what I did was decided like I said split the difference I disengaged I stopped doing fantasy I do not watch I mean if you have it if it's on somewhere I'm not going to like avert my eyes but I make no effort to watch anything other than the one Seahawks game per week I really don't what what really drives me nuts generally about sports is when people and you can be a little bit like this Andrew is when like a loss just kind of ruins your whole day that's never happened to me before never happened to you before it's just a game it's just a game well i know quite a few folks who when they when their team whether it's the mariners or the um or the hawks or whatever it really ruins their day and it really like just puts a pall over the whole day and for me it's like i really can shake it off like it sucked it sucked to lose that way especially if it was a heartbreaker um but now on to something else and the other thing i do is i make if i even for a Seahawks game if I have a better offer like if I have something I'd rather be doing that I normally would be

excited about but it conflicts with the Seahawks game I just decide I sort of have a standing policy like I don't let the Seahawks game be the reason I turn down other things to do our football

watching has changed a lot too I mean there was a time when like when you implemented that rule

there was a at least a 50 if not to be clear for myself not for you of course yeah yeah yeah but

like when you implemented that rule for yourself like we were watching most of the games at home Like I would make some chili or some breakfast or whatever and we would block off the day and I was really obsessed with the Browns game that would often happen first or I'd go way out of my way to time shift and sort of go in a media block out so that if they were playing at the same time I could watch the Browns first but not find it.

to the tv so you couldn't see the the uh yeah like the scroll of scores at the bottom so um and now

that the browns now that now that i don't root for the browns because of actually the things that that our listener was pointing out like because of some you know that i think most people know this if they listen to the show but the browns um uh signed an atrocious human being and gave him enough monies so that he could um enough monies so that he could just like kind of um you know settle all of these you know these literal dozens of complaints levied against him by women that that he had um that he had massively inappropriately touched um like how can i root for a team that's going to not just sign that person but also sign that person in a way that they can just like make all those legal woes go away insulate him from any consequences i can't i can't i just can't see a way of getting around that people ask me sometimes like will you ever be a browns fan again and it's like I mean maybe if the ownership changes but I sort of feel like I'm going to be changing so much in the intervening years that if the ownership ever changes like I just think that I'll I'll be so untethered from the team at that point but like I ran into a friend this weekend and this really happened this wasn't a dream and he and he unbuttoned his shirt he was wearing a browns t-shirt underneath with the with the old logo the brownie the elf logo from like the 1940s or 50s and like i was like oh that's awesome and then and it was awesome it was awesome john and but i was also kind of like and then i then i remembered oh yeah they're a big disappointment to me and it's still like it's still really emotional for me and i'm struggling now because i talk about it too much on the show i'm sure but like my sundays most of the year are dedicated to this volunteer group i work with small neighborhood volunteer group and i like it it's not like me saying like oh look at oh look at look at what a great grand person I am giving back the community it's not I enjoy doing it I go and I hang out with people that I enjoy on usually sunny days during the summer at least and get meet neighbors and do all this stuff it's legitimately a joy for me but I've always carved out the time during the fall and winter to prioritize football over that and I'm really struggling this year as I think honestly training camp I believe begins today

or tomorrow yeah seven weeks out from from the first game if you can believe and I listen to

sports radio all the time I'm starting to hear more and more like kind of football's a comment and I really have been struggling with like can I disengage from football this year because in a certain way you know when you start prioritizing something that you love and enjoy but it becomes so much work to prioritize it and like the feeling I have going to a game knowing that they might be understaffed at the volunteer gig or that I'm sort of on call because if somebody gets sick or I have to coordinate like I usually I would bring this thing but I can't so I gotta go to somebody else's house so they can bring it and then I can pick it up the next day and like it's becoming so much work for me to prioritize something I like that I'm almost like maybe I should just like John Sklaroff or or like our friend Nick that we mentioned like maybe start letting go of that a little bit but then i'll hear a football promo on tv or just again today where i was at my friend's house watching the cat and what did i see on their counter but they must have been eating chips out of this this goofy bowl that just looks like half of a football yeah and like there is something i swear i just had this feeling like an hour ago i was washing the cat dish and i looked over and i saw the football football bowl and i was just like oh i got i got filled with something you know like oh yeah like football snacks i love football snacks and then i was like oh i might not have that many football snacks this year i'm not sure and so um i don't know i'm trying to figure out where i am with all of that and certainly like i want to be able to disengage more but also i sort of feel like if i disengage then it will be kind of closing the book on something that i generally

find enjoyable so we've wandered a little bit i think away from the advice part of it but i guess my advice is if you can if you can here's here's my advice decide what a reasonable what a reasonable amount of fandom for you is and implement some guardrails and then I think just check in with yourself and see if those guardrails are causing you anxiety or pain or what have you because you're either not getting an you know you feel like you can't engage with it as you would like to or you're still feeling um some sense of like you know moral confusion about it but maybe just see if if like setting some guardrails and setting some kind of limit hard limits on on your fandom allows you to enjoy it in a more in a slightly more distanced way yeah because going

back to the heart of the thing and i'll just weigh in here again before we move on to the next one And like that that is something that I struggle with. I mean, you I was joking about just being really cool about sports, but I'm not like when I'm invested in a team, I'm invested in them. And then like certain circumstances can be more triggering for me than others. Like if I go to a random Mariners game and they're playing like I went to a Mariners game, I'm going to say maybe a month and a half ago or something. And they're playing the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Pittsburgh Pirates are not only not in our division, but they're not even in our league. They're on a National League team, and we got walloped, but it was early in the season. There were some Pittsburgh fans in the stadium, but with Seattle, it was mostly Seattle fans, and it was a great day at the ballpark, and I got to hang out with two of my buds who I hadn't seen in a long time, and then there were fireworks afterwards. Right. Just a great night.

You wish you had won, but it wasn't like it didn't destroy you.

We got walloped, and it didn't destroy me at all. It was honestly one of the best, it was one of the most fun baseball games I've been to in a long time. No joke. I remember telling him that. And I don't think I was even drunk I remember telling my friend Just being like I love you man That was so much fun

Why don't we do this all the time

I might have been drunk

When I hear how it sounded I want to say

You probably were That was an actual recording of me too But that was because It was the Pirates And it didn't matter that much But then just this past weekend And you know where I'm going with this A colleague of yours Invited us to see the Mariners game And the Mariners were playing The Toronto Blue Jays And again, I've talked about this a lot on the show, I think even leading up to that night going to the game, was there's this thing when Toronto plays Seattle, just Toronto fans absolutely flood the stadium.

Oh my God, they descend on Seattle.

I don't know how many are coming down from across the border, how many just kind of live here now because of the proximity, but it is, I mean, a friend went to Saturday's game and said it seemed like 75-25, like 75% Blue Jays fans in our stadium. Would you clock it at that?

I mean, we were at the Saturday game. We were at the Friday game. Friday game, sorry. The Friday game was, it had to be over 50% blue shades.

I think so, yeah. It felt like more because it's like the place that you go that is usually all Mariners fans. But when it's taken over in this way.

I mean, you could really see them. They would all stand up for certain things, rally.

And they would start chance.

And they would start a chance. and they and they it was I mean it really felt like they had taken over the stadium it had to

be at least 50 and if you listen to those games on broadcast it's disorienting because yeah the crowd goes crazy when bad things happen to your team I mean it's like very confusing and I've always hated that from afar and I think this is the first time I've actually gone to a Blue Jays I'm pretty sure would you do it again um I don't know and this ended up being okay because we won but Genevieve

at the last second

you told me before we went yeah we won in a that one was a walk off right yeah walk off double I think in a surprise walk off and like boy I couldn't have been happier but like you said like hey and I would have abided by this anyway but you said you know this is a work event we're there at the kindness of my colleague who had extra tickets or whatever so please don't go ballistic you know which is fair and also I shouldn't go ballistic anyway whatever ballistic means for a loser like me But I will say I got on the bus that I always get on to get to the stadium. And as we get closer and closer to the stadium area and the downtown area, I am looking out the bus window and I am just seeing I assume they're gaggles. I don't know what groups of Blue Jays are, but I'm seeing just a flock, big flocks of Blue Jays fans waiting for other buses getting nearby. And first of all, I never saw one of them alone.

I only saw them in groups, especially because they're representing outside of their city.

they're all wearing oh just totally decked out and again it's their right to do that i mean that's what fandom is right but i'm also noticing i'm not seeing one mariners hat i'm not seeing one mariners jersey they usually you get on the train i sometimes i take the bus sometimes take the train but like the train will be filled with more and more mariners fans as you get closer and closer to the stadium it's kind of a good feeling right yeah it is um and instead feeling like i was going into this weird like sort of like and i have i just have a lot of emotional issues that as luke pointed out in the show probably do stem from maybe being bullied uh as a kid or whatever but like i started to get really worked up like i was really upset i don't know how much i talked to you about that because i didn't really want to be that person yeah but I was and then I finally get off the bus and I have a bit of a walk to go to the stadium. And usually I would go to the stadium is sometimes as early as two hours ahead of time as soon as they open the doors. But I get to the area about an hour before game time. And I am. First of all, one of the things that also just drives me crazy about humankind is their inability to have spatial awareness on sidewalks. And so I'm just trying to walk as a solo person. Right. And there's just these big groups of Blue Jays fans meandering slowly. taking up the sidewalk, I'm sort of like kind of brusquely brushing through them, and I'm so angry at them. And I'm angry at Mariners fans for not showing up, and I'm just furious. And I'm like, I'm not even going to go to the park. Like, I don't want to go to the park and see a bunch of Blue Jays fans. So I go to this little corner bar that I know about that's somewhat in the vicinity, but is usually not overwhelmed. And actually, I was glad to see that it was somewhat quiet, and most of the jerseys I saw there were Mariners jerseys. So I sort of felt like, okay, this is a place where my people know to go, sort of, which is such a weird way of thinking about this but when I got off the bus and made that walk and then said I can't even go to the stadium right now the feeling I do think it has something to do with being bullied like I felt like like these people are disrespecting us right I felt so beside myself I you're the only person I've told about this and I'm telling you now on the air but I'm really ashamed at how awful I felt I was sort of I'm not gonna lie to you I wasn't going to do this but I was sort of thinking like what if i just said i'm sick like i literally wanted to call in sick to a baseball game i was going to tell you and your pal victor like you know what i my stomach is upset because my stomach was sort of upset because my tummy was upset because of fandom like and i think maybe that's the kind of thing that this person is getting at that like fact that like i can't part of rooting for sports is having a rooting interest it's kind of stupid if you don't have a rooting interest but i also can not get this and i because i kept jumping i thought there's no way the Mariners are going to win this game tonight the Mariners have been a disappointment pretty much all season and I kept skipping ahead to that moment where I'm leaving the stadium surrounded by a bunch of chanting Blue Jays fans who've just kicked our ass and that's all I could see well it turns out at the end of the day we ended up winning in a very surprising very last

minute way and then I was the asshole but I was at my all I did was clap and scream and yell and chant you know let's go Mariners let's go Mariners around a bunch of silent Blue Jays fans I was somewhat obnoxious as I applauded them as they filed out of the stadium. But like, you know, that I don't think, you know, I didn't get into a fight. I didn't call anybody any names. I was nice. I let Blue Jays fans cut in front of me at various vending situations.

You gave some respect knocks to a Blue Jays fan who was trying to be gracious in defeat.

Did I? Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Somebody did sort of. I actually couldn't tell who they were representing. Yeah, he was a Blue Jays fan. Okay, yeah. So anyway, but I was really miserable walking into the stadium. I was kind of miserable. But actually, the game was it was such such a nice night. I think once I settled in, I was OK. But like the feelings that I had again, I literally called almost called in sick for something that otherwise I would totally enjoy, which is a beautiful Friday night at the ballpark.

Yeah. I mean, that's not good, right? Like that's that's there's nothing healthy about what you're describing. And so if that's where if that's where somebody is, I think they need to do some work to disengage.

OK, I have another email here for you. Dear Genevieve, on the day my thesis was published, my grad school advisor, who supposedly read my paper several times, emailed me to say that he was disappointed that I didn't cite his work more. WTF, means why the face, this majorly hurt my feelings and made me so mad. That was about a month ago. I'm finished with the program now and graduated, but still working for this advisor over the summer. I'm not looking to burn a bridge, but I never responded to his email. Was that the right call? This experience really disappointed me as he's been a pretty good advisor to me, and it really soured my entire image of the program. Ugh, signed, angry in academia. Now, I have a question for you, Genevieve. I don't think I understand the dynamics of grad school advisors and thesis work to understand what the issue is here. So it sounds like the thesis passed whatever it needed to pass.

Yeah, if they graduated.

But is it just sort of boorish to say you should have cited my own research more?

Well, this is really an interesting question to me. So I do work in, I work in a, at a university, but it's not accurate to say I probably that I work in academia because I'm not an academic, right? I've never, I have a master's degree, but like, I've never gotten a PhD. I've never been on an academic, like I've never been on a track towards a PhD. I've never worked in a lab or, you know, had a, had a profession, had a thesis advisor. I'm assuming by the use of the thesis that this person was earning their PhD. If that's the case, congratulations. It's also congratulations if it was a different degree that I'm just misidentifying. But I mean, huge accomplishment what your advisor did was just small and dickish and can i say that yeah um and and just and just pathetic honestly like if it's i don't understand maybe i it's i don't know what field you're in and i don't know if your advisor is um in some way like the you know the reason that this person was your advisor is that they are like the the expert in this field i also don't know what the norms are like if you have an advisor for your thesis are you with that advisor because they think that you're expected to treat their research as kind of one of your primary sources of uh of research so i don't know what the norms are i would say the best people to talk to about this would be other people in your program and ask them you know did they have like get a bead on like did you you know was there was there something about your thesis and your use of your advisors um you know citations that were they were outside of the of the norm but even if they were as you say uh i think does do they identify the the gender of the advisor i think it said he even if even if your citations were like less than normal or whatever there were a hundred other times when that should have been a conversation not when it was already completed and basically turned in um it sounds like it didn't affect your graduation so that's great and if you like this person otherwise here's something i'm going to say about academics and all apologies to any academics in the audience who feel that i this does not represent them i'm not talking about you but academics as a group are some of the most socially inept people that you will ever have the pleasure of meeting they are often people who have to the exclusion of almost everything else in their lives become experts on this one thing um and academia has is is filled with people who like just lack social awareness and so it's not it's not so that surprising to me that this person just like didn't have any sense of how what he said was going to have like the impact of what he was going to say that it was just his gut reaction or his ego talking and he didn't think

about how it would affect the person he was advising and again it's angry making because it's just it's just so self-centered it feels ego driven it feels also like too little too late like if there was a real if there was an issue with what you were doing with your research like why didn't this come up sooner why was this delivered to you in this like peremptory way instead of like having a conversation about it i think you absolutely did the right thing by not referencing it i think that it's the gracious thing to do is to pretend it didn't happen because he was out of line um and i don't have to be an academic uh or in this field to say that like that's not appropriate that's not an appropriate way to handle something if he had a legit if he had a a legitimate concern about something the way about the way the research was conducted sending someone an email saying you didn't cite my research enough isn't the way to handle that

so the advice for this person is just to keep on trucking and don't get in your head too much about it and just think that maybe just be glad that you're not that kind of person be glad you're not

that kind of person don't be that kind of person like it's always good to remember i mean it's always good to remember the way somebody's bad treatment of you made you feel so that one day when you're someone's advisor you know you don't have that you don't do that to them i think it would be worth checking in with people in your program to find out if they you know have a sense of that being normal or outside the norm i'd know to what end this person's already done with the program is it just kind of rehashing her well but i mean academia is a small world especially you know depending on what your field is it can be very small and so i understand the impulse not to want to burn a bridge i think it would be useful for this writer for the question asker to know was there something about again this is not to excuse the conduct of the advisor but it would be useful to know if there's a norm that they just maybe weren't aware of for future reference because they're going to have to work with other you know who knows if they're a postdoc like there's all the academia is a long career path right it doesn't end when you get your degree so I just think it would be worth kind of talking to people and also kind of finding out if you're not crazy right like it might be validating to hear somebody say like oh no that guy's just a ego case and that's not surprising because he's just wants he always wants his ego to be gratified academia is weird too because like faculty researchers people who are advisors i don't know how exactly they're you know their gold or how they're uh assessed for their value but i can say that i know that there is a lot of competition and like

Thank you.

universities even are ranked based on how many times uh how how often like faculty research gets cited in other research so it's kind of a this thing the citation game the citation competition has real consequences for people's like tenure decisions and um you know grant how grants are allocated and all this stuff so it's all this there's this whole economy and this whole culture around citations that's very invisible to people like us who just work you know in your case you just work for yourself but in my case like i have a boss i work for john right you work for john i have a boss that boss has a boss if my boss does something i don't like i can go to hr and say i think this you know violated the the rules yes there is academic hr and there are protections for people and students PhD students but it is also a system that is heavily weighted uh towards the faculty and it's a huge power uh imbalance in academia in that way let's hope this

next one is about a bride that is forcing her bridesmaids to buy these are so heavy let's see here oh good no this is about whistleblowing in the non-profit sector oh great dear Genevieve

Please, is there a way to reiterate that disclaimer from the beginning? I'm definitely out of my depth here.

It really is about that. I've been doing various forms of nonprofit and public health contract work for about 20 years. In the last five years, I've had two of the worst executive directors imaginable. I have moved on from these supervisors now. But what is my moral and ethical obligation when I know an organization is abusing nonprofit and taxpayer dollars? You know, I was joking before about this not being a lighthearted, but, I mean, this is actually very angry-making. I quit last year when my director kept wanting me to write bullshit reports that claim we are helping addicts and unsheltered folks when really my boss gave himself a raise. True story. So this person, these people are telling our listener to write reports to justify certain, I'm assuming, fundraising activities that are just going to go to line somebody else's pockets. That is, I mean, that is.

That's what's happening. That is. That's straight up illegal. And I know that that nonprofit has a board. Drop a dime to the board.

I really feel, before you give the advice, please allow me to finish. I really feel conflicted about this. While I have moved on from these organizations, I still work closely with the community and I keep hearing about ongoing abuses. I feel that I can't keep letting it make me angry, but I also don't want to risk my own contracts or career by reporting powerful people who are still doing unethical things. Sincerely, nonplussed by nonprofits.

that's so frustrating and it sounds highly illegal um you know you could start by just

sending an anonymous note to the board be and maybe be anonymous the thing is it sounds like maybe i almost wonder if in this case like because these are probably tight-knit communities maybe like sending an anonymous note like or they already know you know and it's sort of a look the other way kind of situation you have more experience with non-profits than i do if the board knows

then it's extreme corruption and rot from the inside what's more likely i think is that boards often give a great deal of leeway and and boards are especially non-profit boards which are volunteer by by and large um in other words it's not like a corporate board where you know it's a perk like you're there volunteering your time um and often the boards of non-profits are people who are not experts in the business that the nonprofit is engaged with. They're people who care about the issue or have good fundraising connections or have good community connections, but they're there for a reason, but they're not there because they are themselves experts at either managing an executive or conducting the work that the executive conducts. So in my experience, executive directors of nonprofits are given a huge amount of delegated responsibility, which is like what basically they report to the board. They say, this is what we've done. This is how it's going. And short, there aren't that many like checks and balances to make sure that what they're telling the board is true. You just have to have a good executive director who's trustworthy and honest. So I would start by sending an anonymous note to the board. if you have other people the other way thing to do it if you're hearing this from other people like get together a group of people who are willing to go on record with you because then you're all pretty insulated and uh now is not now is not a time when when a board of a non-profit wants to be seen uh retaliating in some way against whistleblowers what about the media you can go to the media the media if it's if i mean if it's truly illegal and like the and Taxpayer dollars are being misallocated at some significant scale that might be interesting to the media.

But the board is going to be the group that cares the most about the reputation and the use of the dollars. Remember, like I had to when I was sitting on a board of a nonprofit, I had to approve the budget every year and I had to go through it line by line. Make sure like, yes, I agree with this expense expenditure for, you know, salaries, this expenditure for facilities, you know, capital improvements, blah, blah, blah. Like you really have to know where all the dollars are supposed to be going and where they're supposed to be coming from. Um, and it's the, the board has legal responsibility for that to be, I mean, typically, again, I don't know the exact contract or, you know, exact, I don't know the exact charter of this board, but if it's a typical nonprofit, the board is on the hook for this nonprofit behaving legally and ethically, it's their job. like start with the board and you know i think it's if you can send the letter with your name attached if you can send it with multiple names attached obviously that's going to be better because they'll be able to it'll become your you know there's greater accountability for everybody there but even if you feel like you can't i think a letter to the board and you know cc multiple members of the board so that doesn't just go to the chair make it something they have to deal with

what is your take on making people pay for destination weddings

i mean i think that i love that question and i'm always i don't think there's just one answer because i think sometimes a destination wedding can be really awesome yeah but but depends on what you're asking it depends on what you're asking and my biggest thing with destination weddings and i've seen this actually happen kind of recently to a friend of mine is there was some sort of butthurt you know resentment when some people said like well it's just not in our budget to do that this year that's you know we have a certain amount of vacation money and time and blah blah blah and that's not in the budget in a sense of like resentment over it's like no if you do a destination wedding you have to go into it with the expectation that anybody

who travels for it is gravy yeah yeah absolutely do i know those people yeah oh i'll tell you in Oh, we've got to end the show.

Here I go once again with the email. Every week, I hope that it's from a female. Oh, man, it's not from a female.

Genevieve, the other day we received a voicemail, which, boy, I should have just pulled up the old voicemail. But I can't find it now. so i'll recap we got a voicemail from somebody who was checking in from the stp ride the seattle to portland bike ride yeah okay and this person was saying you know and that's a obviously a challenge for a lot of people it'd be a more than a challenge for me yeah what's the other what's

the word for not possible impossibility impossible that's impossible that's impossible uh but this

person said that one of you know so i've never been a part of a ride like this but i'm assuming that you know there are probably big clusters of people and you know and probably i don't even know how many hundreds of people participate in that yeah but apparently according to our caller the other day there was one person who decided upon themselves that they were going to be the party person and so they put one of those jbl you know pill shaped speakers on their bike and they were just in charge of the music for everybody around them they were blasting music was it nice was it Because our listener was like, now I'm just stuck with this person. Again, I don't know the logistics of this, but this person was like, I can't get away with this music. I can't get away from this music. What if I don't like this music? And this person is just like, well, I'm the music person, and you're all going to listen to my music.

Did the person not like the music?

Yeah, they called to complain about it. They were just like, I don't know. They're like, this behavior is wrong, right? Is how they put it. You'll back me up on that. This is bad to make all of us deal with this music. And Luke and I both said, yeah, that is wrong. That is very presumptuous.

When I'm on the beach and I hear somebody put on a speaker on the beach, I'm livid.

In a way that is not even try. Like there's the people who will put on a speaker and you can sort of tell it's for them and they're trying to maybe mitigate it. But usually it's just somebody like I'm the one who brought the party and they're just going to blast their music. I remember you and I were on vacation five years ago or something and around the pool area somebody was doing that. And it drove me bananas. I didn't like their music.

Yeah. i guess i just i i heard it in my i said nice and i thought i just pictured it more of like a sort of a fraternity of bikers and of cyclists and being like a song that you know like songs that everyone can kind of enjoy and like get a get a rhythm going i would imagine like you really need to be like i need music to run for example um i just thought like oh you know if you're all kind of in the zone together and like it's like 90s hip hop that everybody likes because everybody likes 90s hip-hop I think we can all agree it was just the song Bicycle by Queen on a loop just over and over again no it was the um it was I was joking that

everyone likes 90s hip-hop right I just meant that like you know I would like

that but not everybody right on the other hand like OPP does anybody really have a problem with OPP I mean that's a great song to ride your bike to but again yes of course people would have an issue with that what's that Pink Floyd song bike it's one of the very early Sid Barrett weird ones can you imagine just playing that on repeat over and over but like yeah but i basically said like yeah that is borscht anybody who thinks like hey i'm the one who can like choose all the noise like i don't know there's again for me that's not just annoying in the moment but it's also tied up in like how i feel like some people see the world which is like oh yeah no everybody's gonna like my shit like so i'll play it well we got this voicemail from somebody who did not leave their name but i believe they're calling in from chicago hey i was just listening to this thanks ram i was just

listening to this episode about where you guys were talking about people playing speakers on their bikes. I live in Chicago and I think everybody, almost everybody does that except for like the super serious cyclists who are trying to bike one or two hundred miles a day. That's not most of us. Most of us are just trying to commute and listen to some tunes on the way to work because it's brutal if you don't do that a lot of the time. Too hot, too cold the traffic is ridiculous and we can't use headphones obviously then you know we're not going to be able to hear what's happening around us uh and we're generally moving fast enough that it's not going to be too intrusive to those around us i'm with you on people hiking or running

and play yeah that was something that luke brought up he's like yeah you get or maybe the listener the original listener brought up like the same thing as like on a trail or something like that like and and i think that um yeah i think we can kind of all agree on yeah i don't

like it also but with the trail it's not like there's a peloton you can you can slow down or speed up if you need to get away from somebody sort of but you know i mean you've been on trails

before popular trails where you just kind of if you're if you match pace with somebody else on

the trail you match pace with them yeah but you i unlike a pellet unlike a bike ride like that where you really need to be with people because of the way biking works i think with with hiking you can you can slow or push yourself in a way that's like you're not drafting off of somebody

yeah it's still pretty obnoxious and play blasting the music they they don't need to be doing that it's you know too much too loud for too long but with the cyclists they just zoom past and that's it um yeah i was surprised to hear this pick because uh it's it's pretty standard form over We're here in the Chi-Town, the Windy City, the Bay City, you might call it. All right, power out.

No, but I think that we are kind of in agreement. Luke and I, I don't think it ever came up like the commuter aspect of this. I have zero issue with that. I've heard that before. It's a different use case. And this caller says, if somebody zips by me and they're blasting music and they're in the bike lane and also me.

It's so different from a car with open windows.

Right, exactly. and it goes I mean I've been I have been annoyed by cars blasting music that are sitting next to me at a stoplight I don't think I've ever been annoyed by hearing the music on a cyclist and also like I also just believe morally and ethically and I'm not I'm not a cyclist myself but if somebody's out there commuting and I'm in my car or even walking whatever like they are making the right decision by like not driving a car not adding another car to the road not adding another potential killing machine to the road another thing that will harm the environment like I'm absolutely all for that and so if they want a little grace they get it but I would argue that in this case the person who called in was on this on this particular ride that was not a commuter ride it was a challenge that a bunch of people signed up for and I'm assuming paid money for support for and you have one person who's destroying a whole bunch of other people's experiences or ruining other people's experiences because they've just taken it upon themselves that everybody's going to listen to my music that is much I feel like that analogy is much closer to the hiking trail analogy than anything else it's an interesting question like did they

decide obviously they did decide that what they want to listen to is what everyone's going to listen to but are they someone who feels like they can't succeed at this physical challenge without this without the music in which case you know i'm not saying it makes it right but is it is it less like a an aggression active aggression in that case i don't know yeah active for me like

when i think about and again i get pretty wrapped up in people who i and again people strangers people i don't know but when i see somebody acting in a way that seems um sort of self-centered and and not aware of the people around them whether it's like just parking your suv in a bike lane because it's convenient for you

yeah and oh well i had to take my dog to the vet quickly it's like yeah well still though that's a bike lane you're putting other people at risk or or all all the things that i see people doing in public um blasting your music whatever it is like i often i definitely don't like the behavior but then all i will often ask myself what is more galling to me if this person realizes i'm being an aggressive jerk here or this person is so oblivious they don't even realize it like i don't

even know what's worse yeah it's interesting I mean and I wonder you know can you just have a conversation with someone who's doing something that you don't like you know like is it possible to just say to the person who's blasting music on the ride like hey can you give it a rest like

we don't all want to listen to the music or can you yell something kind of passive aggressive but your blood is boiling so much that the words come out of your mouth funny and nobody understands

really even what you're talking about yeah that always works I can't imagine somebody doing that

but I'm sure they're out there like the time I yelled real polite car somebody and they gave me the weirdest look anyway just more cool guy stuff from your boy Andrew Genevieve later on today first of all thank you for doing this this has been absolute delight as it always is when you're on the show but then also when we're done here and I post the show you and I are going to be sitting back down behind these hot mics to record an episode of After These Messages. Yep. The podcast about TV commercials that you and I do together and have been doing for quite some time. We're up to episode, are we in the 400s now? We are. 403 or something tonight. You are producing the show tonight. What's coming up?

We're talking about fashion shows in commercials. Oh. And I'm doing Aviv's Takeover, which is just when I, some commercials just got my goat and I want to talk about them.

Yeah, I'm trying to think fashion shows like actual like walking down the runway with the flashes going off and the cameras and yeah you know what fashion shows are I'm just stalling because I'm trying to think like there must be so many classic commercials that use that trope but I can't think of one right now well we'll talk about a few I guess I'll have to tune in Genevieve and anybody else who wants to tune in look for after these messages on your favorite pod catcher in the meantime Luke will be back tomorrow again today was a planned day off so don't anybody to worry about that. Luke will be back again tomorrow from Los Angeles checking in on how his adventures are going out there. In the meantime we will wish you a good day and remind you no mountain too tall. And good

luck to all. Try everything once. Except celery is pretty much bulls**t. Don't even bother with it. Big waste of time. Power out.