Muse

It's so hard nowadays, with all the gangs and rap music. What about robots? Oh, they're everywhere. I don't even know why the scientists make them. Darren and I have a policy with Old Glory Insurance that covers us in case we're attacked by robots. An insurance policy with a robot plan? Mm-hmm. Certainly, I'm too old. Old Glory covers anyone over the age of 50 against robot attack, regardless of current health.

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We've got another week to get back on the horse, you know, and take that horse to the water. And you can ask that horse, you can say, hey, horsey, do you want to have a drink or do you want to swim? Yeah, and it's up to that horse to then realise what he wants to do in his life.

I like it. Each sentence so rife with information. Go on, please.

Was my underwear showing when I was climbing down the tree? I wore my Thursdays because my Saturdays had a case of the Mondays, if you know what I mean. Beep, beep, ribby, ribby.

You are legit crazy. You are losing your mouth.

Oh, won't somebody please think of the children?

All right, hello, good morning, and welcome everyone to a Tuesday edition of TBTL, the show that just might be too beautiful to live.

Cup of coffee in the big time.

My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host. I'd like to grow a pair sometime. Coming to you once again from Portland's South Waterfront District, where it's a bit of a cloudy Tuesday morning, but it is going to be scorching by the end of the week. Triple digits, which I learned yesterday on a walk with Becca means maybe in the 100s. I don't think I'd put that together. That's really warm. Today, though, seems all right. Once again, Cat Town, USA. Bubbles is here. Holly Golightly. They were running around like maniacs earlier. May or may not make an appearance on the program today. Which, by the way, is episode 4,240 in a collector's series. Let the fun begin. Another day, another observation by me of some bunk journalism going on. I'd like to point out to anybody watching, this is really bunk journalism. Yesterday, we had a headline that Andrew found misleading about tip rage. Today, I find an article about a home construction project that's lacking some of the very, very necessary elements of an article about a home construction project. We will talk about that. And then if you've been listening to the show lately, you know that we have been talking about Yelp reviews like a lot on the show. We had Donna in Texas who was writing reviews of airport Hudson News offshoots and other such things, Crab Rangoon and things of that nature. Well, now new data that says AI generated Yelp reviews. So Yelp reviews written by a chat program have now crossed the touring test.

Welcome to the Internet.

Meaning humans do very poorly, including the guy that wrote the piece in the New York Times, who is a restaurant reviewer by trade. Humans now do very poorly at figuring out if a Yelp review was written by a chat program or a human being. So we will dig into that and we'll talk to this guy, the longest running co-bro of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. He is completely unperturbed by the fact that we are now, let's see, We're now basically three shows away from TBTL-a-thon 15. Thank you for being a 10. This shiny guy always worries. He's Andrew Walsh, and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

Good morning, Luke. I don't know if this proves that I'm sort of evolving, or potentially even just a highly evolved, anxiety-ridden person at this point, but as we do gear up for things like the big TBTL-a-thon, and I have a lot of...

i have a lot of big technical question marks and and what have you about how we're going to pull off some of the things next week a highly paranoid very large individual talking a bunch of nonsense i um this is this is not a joke this is quite serious last night i did something throughout the night so far as i can remember that was half dreaming and half brainstorming i'm not kidding you like my brain is now problem solving like all I did last night was dream about various scenarios for like our video feed because we're going to try to do a live video feed and I'm not exactly sure how we're going to kind of make that work um and taking phone calls or whatever and I just have I'm sure it'll all work out it always does like whatever but I got to be thinking about it and there's only so much time during the day to think about it and I guess that's why and I'm not joking when i say like literally i would sort of wake up or sort of half wake up and be like okay i keep keep working on that and i honestly think that when i woke up fully in the morning i am more prepared for the tbtl-a-thon than i was when i went to bed last night i truly think i am problem solving and troubleshooting in my sleep the bad news is it means we have to be asleep in order to do the tbtl-a-thon it's kind of a freddie what else is new yeah it's going to be We're going to enter people's dreams and convince them. Is that Freddy Krueger? I think that's Freddy Krueger. Yeah, that's Freddy Krueger. We're going to enter people's dreams and convince them to donate.

It's a novel approach, and I'm certainly not ruling it out because I'll do whatever it takes to keep TBTL going. And if we have to infect people's dreams, if we have to incept the tens of listeners in order to keep this thing happening, that's fine. But my question is, is there a specific problem that you got a little bit of clarity on during your sleeping hours? Was it a specific, was it like a microphone cable? Was it a streaming question? What were you solving for?

Well, yes. I mean, I can be very specific here. I just don't know if it's interesting. And it's basically, like, you and I are going to have a conversation at some point this week about what we want to do as far as this video is concerned, as far as what we stream live during the TBTelethon. But there's another component as well where we want to, if possible have a 24 hour cam on a giant jar that we will be filling with friendship bracelets as we get them done because i want people to be able to like if they want to just like wake up in the middle of the night and click on a video stream and see how many bracelets we've gotten done so far and i'm trying to figure out how we can incorporate these things together are we really going to have like a five day live video feed where we're jumping in sometimes and taking over that feed to do the show or are we going to have to start it are we going to have to stop it if we have several cameras which i think we're going to have this is what i was troubleshooting last night specifically or it's where my brain sort of took me is like how are we going to be able to set up various cameras for the feed and have them all kind of effective and not just have one screen that is divided up into like four little squares that do less of a job and anyway so i was thinking about this stuff and i've been planning on using one piece of software riverside to get this done and in my in my thought process and are you taking pills because this is so boring

is that what i just no i'm sorry that's just the world's leading ice water consumer becca in the background andrew asked if i was taking pills because this story is so boring it really is boring i'm boring myself no that was not too loud and too specific no i'm i'm enjoying it um But I will just mention that this is a person who actually wore out the ice machine on her refrigerator in her apartment. They had to come replace it. That is how much ice this person consumes on a daily basis.

That is my kind of person. I am a huge ice person. But see, I don't have the self-making ice. That's what they call it, right? Self-making ice. I do everything the laborious way. And so I have all my ice trays and very, the good ice trays, the medium ice trays, the not so good ice trays, they're all ranked. They know where they stand in the rankings too. And I have to look them in the eye and the bad ones know that they're bad. And it makes me feel bad.

But like she, no, she has an ice maker on her refrigerator here, you know, that came with the place. And we had to drive back up to my place yesterday, and she filled up the water bottle with ice and had eaten all the ice by the time we got to my house to pick something up and then said, I just need to run inside and refill my ice, refilled the water bottle with ice for the return trip home. We're talking about a 35-minute or so trip here. Like, it's – so that's what – anyway, that's what you were hearing, but please continue.

Oh, like, I honestly, that was such a nice little interruption because I'm boring everybody. We're going to figure this out, but, like, one thing.

You're not boring me because these are the questions I have, in fact, that we should be talking about, except I've been.

Let's just do it on the air, yeah.

Well, because I don't have the time in the afternoon.

for the show so we might as well just do it here but yeah that's i'm i'm wondering about what the visuals are going to be for the tbtl-a-thon in terms of of just like when we're doing the show and we're taking calls and we're hanging out in the madrona hill studio are we just going to have one static shot of us um or is there any chance of because we live in the future because it's 2024 because people can't tell if a chat program has written a yelp review is there a way for us to have a multi-camera kind of shoot going on that people can click between different angles right

now i don't think i mean i don't think the listeners at home can be their own directors we don't have that kind of technology but one thing i one solution that i did or maybe not one solution but one change of heart that i did have is probably the software we'll be using i have been assuming that we'll use riverside to do this but in my dream i was just sort of like i don't think riverside has the same functionality as a different program that we used to use that we used this time last year that we might go back to and so i literally like think that i've i've kind of had a little of a breakthrough on that i don't think that we're gonna there's i don't think there's any way for listeners to choose an angle having said that um you know it would be if we could get like a fourth or fifth person to be a director i was that's another thing i dreamt about last night like is there a chance that if i get this other program and we set up three different cameras would there be somebody who could actually like we had eric the viking doing during one of our shows once maybe a three shot on the three of us when we're all talking but then if you're telling one of your stories uh a one shot on you or if i'm telling too loud and too specific if i'm telling one of my fun stories a one shot on me see i'm subtle a little subtle

we should know who we need to have do this is camaro kev because he famously was a he was pressed into duty as a cameraman when i did my one and only appearance on public access television on the conservative interview show called That's Right, exclamation point. That's a good name. And he, it used to be called Washington Conservative Live, and I rebranded it as That's Right and then did one episode and then never went back.

Honestly, so you came up with the title What's Right?

That's Right.

Or That's Right. That's because I was going to say, I'm going to do a show called What's Left, and it's going to be about the Democratic Party.

What's Left? We laugh so that we don't cry. I like that. But but, you know, Camaro Kev was just there for moral support. But then we didn't have a camera person for the like, you know, this was like there's like maybe three cameras involved in this, like those kind of studio cameras that you'd have at a TV station that are on a big like, you know, motorized kind of wheels and stuff. and the guy Steve who was the actually the creator of this show and the director of it who had worked who worked in local tv um but was not able to fully express his conservative leanings at the at the offices of Como or whatever so this was his side project was taking it very seriously like the different shots and and Camaro Kev had literally never operated a camera before until that day he got like five minutes of training and so he was just pointing the camera where he was supposed to point it and Steve Smalley apparently famously yelled in his headset that's a bullshit shot that's a bullshit shot get that off my show that is a bullshit shot off my show Kamara Kev's like 23 he's literally never operated one of these he's like okay I don't sure whatever you're next time you see Kamara with the Eagles just tell him that's a bullshit shot get that off my show

he'll know what you're talking about in the director's defense Kamara Kev is highly influenced by Vic Berger. And so there was probably some bullshit shots. He was Vic Bergering before it was even in style. Zooming in, zooming out. Flames for eyes somehow. I don't know how he was able to do that from behind the camera, but he was.

So the point is still much to discuss and decide upon related to the TBTL-a-thon 15. But one thing that has been decided is that we need everybody to tune in that week and to donate so we can keep doing this for our job. Um, it's very exciting. On Sunday, you and Sklaroff are going to, uh, show up at the Madrona Hill studio. We're going to start setting everything up. Um, it's a, yeah, it's, this is happening. This is happening America. So, uh, so get ready for it. What is not happening is Davey Rothbard on the show today. Sorry. I lied about that yesterday when I promoted his appearance, what happened was, uh, I realized some, my car is getting work done on it. So it's down here in portland and i realized that it's uh i was still going to need to be here today and this is not for doing like a third person and uh kind of guest sort of scenario on the show it's not ideal so we're going to have davy on tomorrow when i'm back at the madrona hill studio but for those of you who were all excited about that uh you know don't worry it's still happening but it's just going to happen uh tomorrow the other thing that i have on my brain today andrew is uh another it's not a headline from the seattle times but what it really is is I think maybe just another sign about the declining state of traditional media. Now, yesterday you pointed out that you did not love this headline about tip rage.

Yeah, you just kind of stumbled on that. It just sort of seemed like they're just making up.

It's also the number two most viewed story on seattletimes.com.

It's really hard to explain what irritated me about it. And I don't know that I was clear about it yesterday. I'm not upset about people having the conversation or even writing stories about how people feel about tipping in 2024. I do think things have changed a lot and people are grappling with it and people have feelings about it. There's nothing wrong with exploring that. I think it's an interesting topic, but it was written in this way as if there's a new phenomenon that is titled tip rage, as if it's accepted like road rage or something. And that's just like not a thing. And it sort of seemed like they were slowly trying to make it a thing, but just in this article. And it didn't even seem like the source was anything other than this headline. And that's what irritated me is the construction of it.

Well, like I said, it is having its desired effect in terms of being most read. It's literally the number two, the number one most read story on Seattle Times. Yep, comma, people are getting COVID again. And then number two most read story, what's fueling tip rage, the travel troubleshooter. But this story that I wanted to cite is not in the most read stories, but it is most read by people like Luke Burbank, who are always interested in a good story about somebody building their dream home somewhere. And as I was scrolling through the Seattle Times today, I saw a link to a story about a couple building their dream home on Orcus Island, which, again, brings together a lot of the things in the world that I'm interested in. I do love the San Juan Islands. I dreamed of moving there years ago. That didn't come together. But I will live vicariously through other people. And so this article published in the Seattle Times will republished in the Seattle Times is about a couple from Seattle. They're both architects and they were realizing that when their family would come visit them in Seattle, they have grown children now. The problem is that they would just be so distracted with real life that there wouldn't they wouldn't have this kind of like special set aside time to visit and enjoy each other's company the way that they wanted to. And so they thought, well, maybe we'll build a second home. We'll build a place to go on the weekends that will be just dedicated for spending time together and family enjoyment. And so the story is just basically about how they go out to Orcas Island. They see some property on East Sound. They buy it. The husband, like I mentioned, the husband and wife are architects. But so that they wouldn't have arguments about the architectural plans, the husband, who is a professor, I believe, at the University of Washington, said, i will hand this project over to you to the wife you will be the lead architect i will be the client so you just do what you want and then i will just kind of like give you my feedback as if i've hired you to build this house for us um which i thought was an interesting approach and anyway the the article goes on to describe in great detail by the way this is a new york times article that's being reposted in the seattle times because of course it's about orcas island The article goes into great detail about the style of home, the cladding on the outside of the home. You know, Andrew, I don't miss a good cladding reference. You know, I'm a big cladding head these days. They call you Clad the Impaler, I believe. That's right. That's my nickname in various subreddits. Sure. And then they talk about this loft that was built that used car decking, which I'm interested in because that's what me and my dad used to build the front door of my house. It's something called car decking. So all of these really interesting architectural and home design features that are described with, you know, with great attention to detail in this Seattle Times article. Do you know what there is not one piece of evidence of, Andrew, in this entire article?

The cost?

One photograph.

Oh, the photo. One photograph.

One. There is not one photo of the house, of any of the things that are being discussed in great detail. There is not one photo.

Well, did you go to the New York Times to see if the original article had them?

The original article has a million beautiful photos that illustrate exactly what they're talking about. I went to the New York, because at the very end of the article, it says this was originally published in the New York Times. And I clicked there and I went to the New York Times. And it's great, amazing photos in the New York Times article. And so informative and a great article to read. And you can see what they're talking about. the seattle times whoever however this gets ingested into the churn of the seattle times because you know somebody or some program was like well this is there must be some setting that the seattle times has again i don't know if it's a person or a program now who is like looking for pieces that have been written by you know national publications but that are relevant to the pacific northwest and then they grab them and then they repost them because it's a way to have contact

that feels local but you didn't have to actually write it but like whatever system did that but then did not think and maybe the rules are the new york times will not allow you to use photos

maybe you can use the text but not the photos or i'm wondering if you have to pay more for them i'm looking at this now they are very very beautiful photos and i you know i mean this this this has gone back to the era of print right like you would you they even in the print newspaper Or, you know, even growing up, you know, like reading the Medina County Gazette, sometimes they would run a piece by the Cleveland Plain Dealer or whatever. But I do wonder if there's an economic thing, especially with the New York Times photos like this is almost a I'm looking at. I mean, it is funny because it's like it is almost a photo essay. It's like these beautiful right. Well, like photos.

Imagine that minus all photos. Yeah. What are we even doing here?

Yeah. And I do wonder, like, is it just sort of like laziness, like whatever it says, orcas, I'm going to throw it in there because they're leaving it up to an algorithm. them or you know somebody who just doesn't care that much you know you know at the news desk or is it because well we pay for a certain we pay you know a certain blanket fee to run the text but we'd have to pay more to run the photos I don't know if anybody has any info on that like what the rules are around like sort of like these these partnerships I'd be interested to know

yeah I would we have enough folks out there that you know actually understand still the economics of journalism and things like that maybe they can explain it to us because it just felt to me like there is if you if a human being is making these decisions let's just say for the sake of argument that it isn't monetary it isn't a thing where it would cost them more to include the photos maybe it would take more time maybe again there's some ingestion thing where you've got to like reformat them and then i don't know but let's just say it is a human being who makes these decisions about what articles get reprinted or you know put into the digital version of the seattle times and let's say that they had equal access to the photos and just chose not to for whatever reason that person needs to really take a hard look at themselves because the article has zero value minus the photos like you have now if it's just a computer program that just like you said was scanning for words and found orcas and then just beamed it up there then i guess rewrite that program too by the way add another line of code that says locate photos and republish that as well because you just it went from being something that was totally useless the seattle times version to something that was very informative and interesting to me the new york

times version because the photos make the piece this is a maybe a dumb question and also maybe i'm asking more like listeners in the know than you on this but how how much i mean how much room do we have left in the internet could that could that be it as well that they're trying to preserve of space are we getting are we kind of getting near the end i don't know man i have an infinite

amount of cloud storage on my blink security cameras right now andrew so i mean amazon doesn't

seem worried about it so you're willing to sort of share that with the seattle times if that improves

the photojournalism experience uh if it would allow me to have more photos associated with articles about second homes on orcas island yes i'm willing to by the way our friend i think i and say this our friend broadcast barry uh was reaching out to me uh to try to find out what camera system i was using and then he and i kind of went on a slight deep dive about what the like because you know how i said i really like what i told him was i really am in liking this system except for the fact that i'm not paying for it yet like i don't know what's going to happen after my trial month is up and then i have to start paying for because right now it is it is sort of wild on the subject of storage it just this thing if i if i put it on on like active or whatever if i put the motion detection on so that it's just like anytime a person walks by one of the cameras or you know the male person shows up or whatever it'll just grab a clip and then i look at the storage and it shows storage and then it just shows the infinity sign which is a it's like i don't know how to feel about that it feels like could it be infinite is it do i have an infinite amount of storage on this is there no absolutely no limit to it um and is it taking away from the

seattle times ability to post photos we don't know now honestly i was with you on this story and now i'm sort of blaming you for the situation that the seattle times finds itself in like they they want to run these photos but you're over here just like hogging it hogging the infinity

storage every time my neighbor bob drives in and out of his driveway in his prius it gets picked up on the studio the madrona hill studio cam because it's a little too sensitive that's right you know

speaking of the seattle times should we um should should we do a quick follow-up and and let people well i mean i guess i'm just doing it i guess i'm not really asking i'm just doing it uh but should as long as you don't publish any photos let people know that the um the the person the let's say the tbtl prankster the the person that we the mary prankster the mary prankster the person that we first thought might have been pranking us when we found

one of my personal stories in the Seattle Times rant and rave column over the weekend did step forward after yesterday's show and all of our suspicions were right it was a listener in fact it was our number one is suspect too strong of a word there um that it was our you know who my number two suspect was was my friend Nikki who's also pulled some pranks on the show before she

pulled the ultimate right which was something having to do when you were going to use the bathroom she was like leaving messages on your what was what was the story on that one that one

so should we reveal the suspect from yesterday what is the opposite of an exhaustive search

like what is you know what is the opposite of searching high and low right searching middle and middle look it was it was absolutely it's like the former arizona cardinal dennis green once famously said they were who we thought they were that's right that's right it was It is and was our friend, friend of the show, and again, inveterate prankster Bobby Pape. Robert Pape himself, who wrote that letter to the Rant and Rave column of the Seattle Times in the persona of the guy that you argued with on the stairway.

Exactly. Bobby, I'm going to give you a bell ring, but I got to get the bell and then ring it.

Ironic that Bobby sent us four non-working desk bells.

That's right. No, it was well played, Bobby. You know, I will try to recreate the prank that my friend Nikki pulled on me. I mean, this goes back so long ago and I was a little bit involved, but I was out to dinner one time with Nikki and our pal Durs and Genevieve and me. It was just the four of us. I think we're at some Thai restaurant. And then I was using the restroom and I was having some intrusive thoughts, not regarding what I was doing in the bathroom, just like I don't know what I was thinking to myself. But I remember I was using the urinal and sort of like muttering to myself like, oh, you're an idiot. I don't know if I was thinking about something dumb I had said at dinner or earlier in the day, but I just think I had muttered something like, oh, what an idiot or something like that. And then after muttering that, realized that there was somebody else in the bathroom with me, that they were in the stall. And then I had to do this like reckoning afterwards, like, oh, shoot, how much was I talking to myself in here? How much was I berating myself out loud that somebody else just heard a person come in, use the urinal, swear at himself a few times, and then leave? I come, you know, I finish using the restroom. I wash my hands, ladies and gentlemen. It's amazing how many people don't do that.

Like Pontius Pilate.

It is amazing. Yes. It's amazing how many people don't do that. I have followed people. There's a rant and rave right there.

and you through context clues the listeners can put together what my mental state probably was for a few reasons but i have followed people dudes out of the bathroom at the casino going

this guy didn't wash his hands you've done that before did you i have done that before now

as you might imagine there was both alcohol and probably anger about gambling losses at play yes i wouldn't do that in my right mind but if i've got you know if i have enough uh enough liquid uh whatever in me uh i get so and i'm in the bathroom again seems to be the casino i get particularly at a casino because think about it you're all going out if you're playing those silly machines and whatnot even if you're playing you know cards blackjack it's i don't know if there's an industry that's more based on touching things yeah yeah you know that other people have touched than a modern american casino like it is uniquely bad for a guy walking around with urine-soaked hands, you know, like, it just, it just, I find that to be the height of disrespect to the wider culture.

But in this particular story, I believe I left the restroom having washed my hands. You had feces-soaked hands, so that was different. Yes, exactly. No, no, I was the one using the urinal, didn't realize there was somebody in the stall. I leave, I wash my hands, I leave, go back to the table, and then I think I told, you know, my dinner companions what had happened there. I'm like, oh my God, I was just talking out loud in the bathroom, and I think somebody overheard me. And then I believe a couple of days later, I got a voicemail on the TBTL voicemail line that sounded like a guy because I think Nikki used some device to like actually lower that was the part.

I think you didn't you play it for us?

I did. And I didn't realize it was her. I didn't know. I didn't have the spidey sense like I had with this rant and rave thing. I really and anyway Nikki played the persona of somebody who said yeah I thought I might have heard Andrew Walsh talking to himself like in the you know what I don't even know if she identified me she was playing a character who was just like calling the TBTL voicemail line to tell about this strange experience they had at a Thai restaurant where they overheard some guy like berating himself while using the urinal or something and she really got in my head with that until I think she had to I think she had to come forward and tell me that the whole thing was a prank i remember the voice whatever voice processor she was using though was like perfect because i know nikki mac i've known her for many years and i if if she was using her regular speaking voice i feel like i would recognize it yeah and i did not recognize it it was like a really it would it was a good put on yes i'm sure she does sometimes this character

tim who i think has been a long standing character for what's up turds it's gmo from

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contract. Anyway, that's another voicemail that I received from Nikki at some point.

That's so good. The finest VA nurse

we have working. Yeah, that's right.

I love that. That's another side of our friend, Nikki. You know, that sounds like a character that Connor, oh boy, how am I, who's the guy that's on I Think You Should Leave? And I can't believe that I'm spacing on his name. But he's even almost like a little weird for the I Think You Should Leave universe. He also happens to be married to A.D. Bryant, the SNL.

Does he yell a lot? Yeah, Connor O'Malley. Oh, okay, yeah, and he's in the sketch. you had to tell me who he was one time because I kind of didn't realize his backstory but he's in the sketch that takes place in some sort of campaign election office or some campaign office and he takes us to some pretty high levels

he plays Tim Robinson's brother in Detroiters and he's like he's always popping up on the show and he's very funny but he also his stand up comedy is it's like a Tim and Eric thing but like times like 10 You don't know where the line is I think he's got a new special out Or whatever, he has a show that he recorded That I've just been seeing clips of Bouncing around the internet And me just like restating it to you Is just absolutely useless to you and the listeners But he does this character Who's just like hyper Hyper jacked up And I don't know what he's doing He's showing a slide behind him Of him in full like Air Force regalia And he's like here was when I was in Top Gun and then it just like shows him as like a like a you know a naval officer who flies like these planes and then i think it cuts to a picture of the planes and then he just screams in the mic how they make those planes go so fast and then he just starts making a sound with the microphone like a plane like a jet it goes it is andrew like the weirdest 15 seconds of tape but it has been living in my head for the last like two weeks is connor o'malley just yelling how they make them go so fast and then making the sound of jets flying by with the microphone i don't know if it's comedy if it's performance art i don't know what it is but it has made an impression on me and it was fed to you via tiktok or probably that's the greatest likelihood but that's how i get almost all content

now um you know our friend um kat solen of course i do holly can i say hollywood's kat solen

well we do have how hollywood power player win rosenfeld and i feel like cat is cat is like what's the cool version of hollywood like what's the cooler version like she said cat is not caught up in that hollywood game cat is over producing cool videos for tiara whack and making you know adult swim shows i feel like she cat is on the on the the very like taste making cool side of

the entertainment biz and what is also cool she um famously win is making like trolls too and bullshit wasn't there a rant wait is no inside out 2 is out now and there was a rant in today's rant and rave column about the kids making too much noise during the screening of no way i'll tell you what i'll tell my story can you look that up fact check me i swear to god after i woke up from my dreaming slash um troubleshooting our tbtl-a-thon i did the thing i always do i woke up i went to the rant and rave column to see what was what was popping and i swear the first one was yelling at kids for making too much noise during a screening of rant of inside out two or what is

that's look up irony yeah right i mean because the whole point of those inside out movies is it's it's about basically like young people understanding that their emotions you know are complicated essentially and that they've got there's all this stuff going on internally for us that drives our behaviors but we generally don't understand or identify what those motivations are whether they're ego or you know other various parts of the personality that are portrayed in the movies i haven't seen these movies but i feel like i have a sense for them that that sounds right to me but

if if we're both wrong on that uh my apologies i don't follow it closely and i haven't seen them but um i don't know if you've been able to open that and fact check me but i'm pretty sure i am

right now hold on seattle I'll talk to you later. loading kids were chatty during movie showing so here we go i'm now clicking on that one um all right we this is uh hot off the presses july 2nd 2024 today let's see uh a rant to the kids in the theater who talked and messed around during the entire showing of inside out 2 nailed oh andrew rave to me yes that's right for remembering that we were all teens at one time and probably did worse and for saying something to them in my teacher parent voice without getting all crazy and making it worse so right this is what we're understanding is there is an acceptable format of raving yourself of ranting that does get published of being upset about something and

holding on to it so much that you went home and wrote a rant about it but then in the same rant you wrote a rave to yourself for being cool about it that's but honestly andrew the the more that

goes on with this rant and rave column the more that i feel like somebody has it personally out for you shadow band you are shadow band rant to being shadow band from the rants and raves

that would be amazing can i oh god now i kind of want to do that um all right so i you know i i i would the reason i'm bringing this up is because i was obsessed with a little bit of tape yesterday too and your story reminded me of it but the thing is i i even as i listened to this yesterday twice and showed it to genevieve was laughing about it i'm like i don't think this is probably tbtl material because it's a little bit hard to understand uh what is going on without seeing some of the the visual aids but the reason i bring up our friend kat is she directed uh comedian chris and performer chris fleming's recent um you know like what was it an hour long or a 90 minute full length um stand-up special and i can't remember which i think that was on peacock maybe and uh cat sent me a clip from it yesterday and said i've been waiting for him to post this because i've been thinking about you ever since we filmed it and um it is chris fleming apparently the only other person in the world who is like me or admits to being like me in that he hates modern theaters with all of the conveniences and the ability to order as he says uh his friend brian orders a shrimp tempura salad during a movie or whatever let's listen to a little bit of it and there's a little bit of it where and this is the heart of it is where he says he ties it to him growing up in new england or boston or something but he says you will never see me relax you will never see me relax you will never see me relax and not only is the specificity of not liking these new movie theaters where i literally can't sit upright in my seats not only does that just nail my feelings about it but also at the heart of it it's because i don't want to snuggle up in public you will never see me relax let me see if i can turn the volume up on

The movie theaters that are so decadent Caligula's crottles on the old mystic device I'm just wanting to see a film at period peace I'm not looking to order a chicken And also get a tattoo

Perverse decadence, violent luxury I don't know how well you can hear that There's subtitles on this that makes it a little bit easier to follow along But there is a part that I can't fast forward to Where he just chants over and over you will never see me relax and that is my new mantra i was just singing that around the house

yesterday non-stop okay i don't know if this is going to work because i'm playing this off of youtube and i'm actually not so sure which elements of audio from my computer because i'm on the road today will go through or what the level will be but this is conor o'malley something called planes so fast it's 18 seconds i promise you andrew one thing this will not deliver this will absolutely underwhelm and confused but here we go you see that top gun movie yeah did you see that top gun

movie yeah yeah did you did you how'd they get them playing so fast huh

man that's the clip that's the clip i like it i mean i it's so unhinged it really is and it's somehow it's like

I'm not in the business of mocking Top Gun or Top Gun 2 like I liked Top Gun when I was a kid and I heard people really enjoyed Top Gun 2 I'm not above a certain kind of movie but clearly I believe what's at the heart of this is some sort of machismo culture yeah I think so and just like the dumbification of it just like yeah those planes are like I like that movie because those planes are so fast right it's a little Gen X-y I feel like and it's two-ed.

He, I believe, I don't know if he did a whole tour this way or if it was just this one performance.

but it's called Stand-Up Solutions, which is also a really funny name to me for a stand-up comedy set, Stand-Up Solutions. Again, he is one of those people, he's one of those performers that I watch. When I see one of his videos come up on TikTok or wherever, I can't help but watch it. I rarely know what's going on. I don't know if it's comedic or not, but I am deeply fascinated with what's happening, which is this other category of entertainment. like it's not even comedy it's like performance art or something to me i guess he's my marina

abramovich i am uh gonna ask something that's been in the back of my mind for this conversation

that how they get those planes so fast that was exactly the question um i know i don't want to

put you on front street in case you find yourself like interviewing this person or whatever but again the fact I think we're burying this deep enough into episode 4240 that uh you won't have to be on the record uh too severely here but I feel like when I talk when when you were explaining who Connor was to me a while back I'm talking like I don't know maybe like a year ago or something you and I off air just had a conversation I got the impression that you were not such a big fan that and maybe I'm wrong about that but my question was going to be did this sort of start with you is kind of like I don't this guy I don't really like him but you also sort of just didn't get it a little bit so you kept watching and you're intrigued by it now you've come around the same way I was with uh Yeezy the record by Kanye West about 15 years ago interesting comparison I just remember like listening to that one that was his first sort of like outside the box record and I remember listening to it the first time and being like well I don't well I don't know about this that i don't know about this kanye i better listen again and i listened again i'm not sure what you're doing here but i better listen again and then it became one of my favorite records that summer or fall or whatever it was is it sort of like that journey with you a little

bit i think you're describing it accurately i think you're i think at the beginning of seeing him do stuff it was it felt really aggressive to me and like he would just do this stuff where he would like just be sitting in the like the go in like the gowanus canal in brooklyn which is like famously very very like dirty water and he would just be like in there like swimming holding like a selfie stick and wearing like a maga hat and yelling into the camera like i mean it was really really out there stuff and i think at the time i was like i don't like this i don't get it and i don't like it but then through him showing up on more i think you should leave sketches like i he sort of kept him on my radar and kept me intrigued about him and then now i think i don't know if his act has evolved a little bit of stand-up solutions is slightly more accessible to me it's different than him just having like gross gowanus water going into his mouth while he's screaming into like an iphone on a selfie stick i don't know what has changed if i've changed or connor or malia changed or maybe we've both grown towards each other andrew as various marriage therapists have encouraged me to do with limited success oh no bad news for connor how they make those marriages so fast zoom zoom but anyway um i i think that's the journey i've been on to where i now am like very intrigued like if i saw that he was coming to portland and i actually think he might have been in portland recently and i were around i would go to the show like so i've i've i've come fully around on this kind of brand of comedy and i probably find it more entertaining than maybe a more straightforward stand-up comedy set that has sort of like set up set up joke set up set up joke you know this is unrelated to anything that

we're talking about and you're going to be mad at me for bringing up a new for opening up this new um this new conversation because unfortunately it could get out of control pretty quickly and i want to be respectful of your time as always but i have stayed in varying levels of hotels and motels and holiday inns in my lifetime i've stayed in some nicer ones and i've booked us as you well know in some not so nicer ones i by the way i want to just say i regret my behavior

in alex in alice springs australia i did not handle that well everything was fine and i was being very petulant and i want to apologize to you in front of the listeners well in your defense

do you remember the hotel that i had booked for the following night that when we showed up there There was a man in a mask with an axe over his shoulder.

There was a guy mowing a lawn in front of a carcosa.

So, yeah. But anyway, all of that is to say, when we do the TBTL-a-thon next week, I will be staying in a hotel. I'm not even going to say the name of it. It doesn't really matter. But I'm just not to blow up any spots or where you live or anything. But I'm going to be staying in a hotel that is very near where you live. I like my space. you offered to let us stay at your place. I'm like, no, I think I'd want my own little...

little pad you know it's gonna be a whole week or whatever and the options were somewhat limited but you know we we found a place that is sort of a budget hotel but I do not have high standards I'm totally you know happy with it you were even kind enough I sent you a link I said hey this is where I'm gonna book a room um for myself and one for John too uh could you just put eyes on it to make sure that it doesn't look better online than it is in reality you visited the place you said it's pretty good it's clean it'll it'll be fine but again i just want to reiterate it's a it's a budget hotel you know which again i'm totally fine with this is my point in all of my hotel experiences from the high end to the medium end to the lower end never has a hotel more than this budget hotel tried to engage with me in email they are sending me stuff like you haven't signed up for our perk package yet like when i i called by phone to book my hotel room john staying at the same place he ended up like booking online he's like I'm a millennial baby I don't use the phone I'm like because I wanted to know if he talked to the same woman that I had talked with who was super super friendly but like went into so much detail about like the the rooms and everything I'm like but this is like you're you're offering a lot of choice here for what I believe is going to be a pretty basic stay you know and she's like okay well you need to sign up for you know whatever our points program is so like I sort of signed up for that on the fly she sent me an email So I'm like, fine, whatever. I click on it. And this is like a luxury or one of those hipster hotels that is constantly like, are you sure you don't want the sexy package or whatever? Right. And I'm telling you, this is not a hotel that I would expect this kind of engagement from. It's on my mind because I just got two emails since we started the show about like your trip is just days away. Are you getting excited? I'm like, I mean, I have some anxiety, but I don't know if excited about my stay with you. They're not providing amenities of any sort

I want to engage in this conversation so badly But I also don't want to give away the location of your and John's hotel Not that I think the 10s are going to come find you But the thing is, the immediate surroundings of your hotel Are what make it so funny to me That they would be like, sign up for our romance package It's like, for someone, and I don't want to sound snooty or bougie Or telling anyone how they should be enjoying themselves but i've been to this hotel andrew i've been in the rooms it is a it looks like a perfectly clean well-run establishment where i think you guys are both going to be very comfortable and where i think it's going to be a good price for the tbtb bottom line but the idea based on where it's located what what other things are nearby including a major interstate freeway it just seems like the last place that you would go and it's not even about the price point i think there are other places that are probably the same price that you could go to that would that would have a little bit more of a romantic angle to it but the idea that this would be your vacation like your sort of like you're doing this as a getaway with your significant other to just like relax and enjoy the pool and whatever like that that ain't it yeah this is not that place at all now not to take

the fun out of this i was you know exaggerating a bit i'm not actually getting the emails that say do you want to sign up for our romantic partner weekend because honestly like i might need to

move you hotels if you're getting those because the kind of romance that probably goes on in the adjacent parking lots and they are you think dodger stadium is surrounded by parking lots my boy this is like it's just oceans of asphalt around you like that i don't know if this is where you

want the romance package yeah no it actually says would you like to sign up for our romance package

Don't have a partner. We'll provide one. I'm like, oh, well, that's really nice. Would you like to sign up for our bromance package? Luke will come down to the hotel with you and offer you a free back massage.

No, I mean, here's what it is really is it's part of, you know, it's it's this hotel is a chain that is part of a family of hotels. I'd never even heard of this of like the parent group before, but I'm looking at this email now and this like parent group owns, you know, it looks like 10 or 15 various national hotel brands or whatever. and they're just all over me about signing up for their whatever their points program is which i thought i already did like that's not even like me to usually engage with that at all because i'm like i'm probably not you know i'm probably not lining it's unlikely yeah but it's just like i just got this email almost there that's the sub no no the subject line is forget something you're like oh no did i did i forget something and then it's like i'm not going to say the name of the program but it's like almost there thanks for joining our points program get the most out of your membership and maximize your benefits and i've been getting these emails it's kind of like dude i clicked the link i know i'm not i'm not i don't want to engage beyond this

excuse me that was just a spam call coming in for some reason also i thought you were actually

like trying to like punch up my story i'm not even joking no that was i'm getting these spam

my phone number has clearly fallen into the wrong hands

Thank you.

once again i don't know how this happened but you know how we cycle through these like and i don't know if this happens to you on your phone but i'll go through a period of like a week or so where i'm just getting a bunch of spam calls and then it kind of goes away after a while but you just be getting and what they do is they spoof the real area code of your phone because they've decided that you're more likely to answer a a spam call if it's coming from a number that looks at least somewhat familiar uh-huh yeah so so you know it's like the the i got i got my my cell phone when i was in la and years years and years ago so now the spam calls come in under the area code of my phone and not only that they've now figured out to add fake names so for instance i'll just read you some of the fake names that have been coming in lately that one was from someone named luis hodgins i also uh got one supposedly from kendra darrow and senio munstead and the munstead is spelled

h-m-i-n-s-t-e-a-d huh that's i have not received that yet that's yeah they've added that to the

to the suite of benefits um is is now a name because i'm sure they've decided well if we put a kind of a semi except for when it's munstead which is not a real thing but they've decided If we put a semi real sounding name on it, then you might answer because now you think, oh, Luis is calling me like there's something that's less spammy about it with a human name on there.

Gotcha. You know, one thing that I've been this is I don't know. I don't I don't think irony is the right word here. I definitely don't think interesting is the right word here. But you know what's weird is I told you that I was given this, you know, for some sort of car work we had done, another, like, free three-month sample of Sirius Radio, and I was telling you I was really enjoying it this time around. I'm probably using it more than I have ever before with these other trial subscriptions that they've given me. And this time, like, I was really convinced, and I heard from some listeners who were like, listen, just sign up for the one year where you can get it for five bucks a month and then cancel after that or, you know, ask them for another five. You know, there's ways to like kind of make this work. And if you're enjoying it, it's worth five bucks a month. Like you should just, you know, you know, play the game or whatever. And so I made up my mind probably a month or two ago that when inevitably SiriusXM calls me, as they always do at the end of one of these trials, they always call and they're always very polite and they always try to talk me into subscribing and actually paying money for the service. And I always say, no, thank you. I enjoyed the free trial, but I'm done now. I was like, when they call this time, I'm going to do it. I'm going to sign up for that five bucks. I'm going to make your day. I'm going to make their damn day. They have called me probably, I mean, I could actually look at my phone, at least seven times in the past week and a half. But it's always been at a time when I can't pick up. Usually it's during the show. One time, I don't know if I – I can't remember exactly why. Maybe I was out with people. Maybe I was at a baseball game. I don't know what it was. But I keep looking at my phone when it rings. It says SiriusXM, and I'm like, if I pick this up, I will make this person's day, but I can't pick up right now, and I'll bet you they're just going to give up, and my thing is going to sunset, and that'll be it, and I'll be without Sirius until I get a crack in my windshield again.

I feel like there's something about Maybe it's just the hours of the day That we tend to do the show There's something about being on the air As it were with TBTL That seems to just attract people I know calling me And what I will say is It makes me so annoyed at them Because I keep thinking You know that I've been doing this thing For like 15 years This is episode 4240 In a collector's series Anthony why would you call me at 10 30 a.m on a Wednesday those everyone who knows me knows that basically in the morning I'm pretty much doing this one thing five days a week and of course it's not a problem I just let it go to voicemail but there's something I feel disrespected as a podcaster I guess when people who know me call me during the time when we're doing the show I'm not saying this is rational I'm saying it's how I feel because it's just kind of like if it could be my mom it's like mom oh i i i called i got your voicemail yeah it's because it was the time when i'm doing this thing that i've been doing for so many years five days a week like you know and again it doesn't actually other than that spam call doesn't usually mess with the show so it's not even a big deal this is kind of my hang-up but i think it it plays to some insecurity that i have low key that this is still not a real job or something and that if people just feel like i was like uh if i was an emt on my way to save a life would you be calling me yeah that's irrational i i mean power out

where's that mug um i uh no i mean your schedule changes so much you have a million things going on at all times i understand can keep your schedule straight um well i get mad when you

call me and i'm on a shoot so i mean there's enough anger to go around no you yell at me it's really embarrassing

um and uh i mean i will say the one accurate thing you said was comparing what we're doing to the job of an emt saving lives that's the only thing that i can get on board with i'm a first responder to boring stories yeah you're really honestly you respond you're the first responder

to my boring stories uh yeah i've got the i've got the subject right here i've got him here he is telling a very boring story okay just make sure um is his airway clear yeah he's talking

do you have any drops sir do you have any drops you can play can you can you put something soft

under his head right now sir do you have any bed music something hello and welcome to top story uh this interesting story from the new york times No photos, Andrew, to specify No photos that I remember Written by Pete Wells The chef is human The reviewer isn't Here is a review On Yelp For a place called Frank Pepe Pizzeria In New Haven, Connecticut Maybe some of our listeners have even been there This is the review on Yelp The white clam pizza at Frank Pepe Pizzeria Napoleon How do you say that word? napolitana okay in new haven connecticut is a revelation the crust kissed by the intense heat of the coal-fired oven achieves a perfect balance of crispness and chew topped with freshly shucked clams garlic oregano and a dusting of grated cheese it is a testament to the magic that simple high quality ingredients can conjure that is a yelp review written by gpt4 in response in a in response to a simple prompt asking for a restaurant critique in the style of Pete Wells, Pete Wells being the New York times, one of the New York times restaurant reviewers. That's pretty good, right? I feel like that's, that's now, and Pete Wells goes on to say that he has a few quibbles. I would never pronounce, uh, I never pronounce any food, a revelation or describe heat as a kiss. I don't believe in magic and I rarely call anything perfect without using nearly or some other hedge. But these lazy descriptors are so common in food writing That I imagine many readers would barely notice them I'm unusually attuned to them Because whenever I commit a cliche in my copy I get boxed on the ears by my editor So Pete Wells is saying I might notice this more than other people But the average reader of Yelp reviews Is going to see this And going to probably think Somebody had a really nice time At this pizzeria And wrote this review The person who created this particular, not GPT-4, but this particular part of GPT-4 is a professor at the Yale School of Management. His name is Balaz Kovacs. And in a recent study, he fed a large batch of Yelp reviews into GPT-4. And he had test subjects try to tell the difference between genuine reviews and those that were churned out by artificial intelligence. In fact, they were more likely to think the AI reviews were real. so we've got basically the the the famous turing test which is essentially can a human tell that they're talking to a machine or a robot um and uh or do they think they're talking to another human this is of course figured out by alan turing uh these things seem to have at least as it relates to yelp reviews passed the turing test these people in this particular study were more likely

to think that the the ai program the chat program was writing a real review than they than the

humans so i haven't read this piece and it i i already hesitate to say what i'm going to say because it sounds like i'm given grief or something but i think i'm sort of maybe missing the point here is the concern that we won't be able to trust like online reviews anymore whether they're on yelp or or a company's website or whatever because ai can make them seem so realistic because if so i sort of feel like well all it's doing is saving a little bit of time we could have had i'm sure a lot i'm sure there have been a lot of fake reviews anyway just written by humans we're just letting the fakers save some time by having an ai program right well the the issue is

that it turns out people make a lot of their decisions around stuff based on online reviews particularly things like yelp and you know like open table and these various things that have sprung up to kind of tell us if a restaurant that we're considering going to is going to be good or not online opinions are the grease in the wheels i'm reading from pete wells's piece uh in the of modern commerce in 2018 a survey by pew research center 57 of americans polled said they always or almost always read internet reviews and ratings before buying a product another 36% said they sometimes did. For businesses, a few points and a star rating on Google or Yelp can mean the difference between making money or going under. We live on reviews, the manager of an enterprise rent-a-car location in Brooklyn told me last week as I picked up a car. I was actually kind of surprised by that, Andrew. That didn't seem like the business that would necessarily live on reviews. It seems like it's just a rental car place and if it's near you and they have a, you know, a Nissan Versa to your liking, you'd go get it. But one special cause of frustration is the large number of people who don't bother to eat in the place they're writing about. So basically what this article is saying is that online reviews, particularly Yelp reviews, have a huge impact on businesses. and so if you have figured out a way to have chat gpt just flood you know a particular business or a series of businesses with either negative or positive reviews you're having a pretty big impact on how that business is going to do for better or for worse another thing and this is what they point out this isn't gpt related but it's just on the subject of online reviews a special cause of frustration is a large number of people who don't bother to eat in the place that they're writing about. Before Eater pointed this out last week, the first New York location of the Taiwanese-based dim sum chain, Din Tai Fung, was being pelted by one-star Google reviews, dragging its average down to 3.9 of a possible five. The restaurant hasn't opened yet. So people are negatively reviewing Din Tai Fung in New York, and it isn't even open there yet. They have not opened the restaurant, and apparently that location is getting negative reviews.

And is there a back story on that one? Is it—

I have a theory, but I don't—the article does not put forward a back story, but I have a theory. And that is—and I have nothing—I have no evidence of this, but the only other place outside of Dintai Fung I've ever had soup dumplings, a.k.a. Xiaolongbao, is at places in New York. and there's a place called Joe Shanghai that has them. And then there's another place down in, I guess we still call it Chinatown that had them like on Mott Street somewhere. But Joe Shanghai was like, for many years, there was like two places I knew of literally in the United States where you could get two locations. I'm not talking about cities. I'm talking about chains. I'm talking about restaurants, two restaurants in America where you could get soup dumplings. One was Joe Shanghai in New York and the other was the Dintai Fung location in like Arcata, like outside of Pasadena. Those were the two restaurants I knew of. And I'm wondering if New Yorkers who love Joe Shanghai feel like Din Tai Fung is coming in and interloping a little bit, or some of the other restaurants in Chinatown that are doing their version of soup dumplings feel like Din Tai is coming for them. And so there is a concerted effort to kind of like eject the interloper, the big, because, you know, Din Tai Fung is really the national, probably the kind of that in like dough zone are probably the main national leaders now in making

this kind of cuisine I would think yeah that's interesting so I mean and that's that's kind of my that's that's kind of my and again I didn't read this article so it's not a criticism it's just what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is like the the AI-ness of this doesn't seem to add much more to the story other than I guess you can flood it with more quantity and more maybe diverse voices in fake reviews but i sort of feel like either whether you want to call them a fake review or an unearnest review or whatever it is everybody's always had the possibility to do this so like if people are you know running competing businesses in new york and they don't like the interloper of dintai fun coming in you know whether or not that's an ai program that is you know, instructed by a human being to write some reviews or just that person typing it out themselves. Either way, the fundamental issue with trusting online reviews doesn't really change

all that much. I think my take on it was just if you can automate this in a way, because by the way, it is I there's a story in The Seattle Times today about an owner of like a like a cosmetic surgeon who's having to pay five million dollars for generating fake positive reviews of his

businesses yeah did you read that i saw that headline i did to tap into that yeah yeah i mean

it was a lot of things going on but the the crux of it really was fake positive online reviews for his own businesses and then the other stuff that wasn't great was like suppressing bad reviews threatening making customers sign ndas that were illegal and then if they tried to post a negative review about their experience threatening them with lawsuits and in some cases filing lawsuits against them and then buying off other people like offering them free services if they would take down their negative reviews it sounds like just there was a lot of sort of shadiness around it but i mean this is a bob ferguson project as are all of these

kind of consumer rights moves future governor bob ferguson um but i was surprised to find that they were actually able to track down the fact that these positive reviews some of them were made up like he had basically he had recruited a network of people to write fake positive reviews and create you know shell accounts for yelp and other such places to kind of confuse people um about the quality of the work so i guess to go back to this story that to me it seems like the issue is if we're all getting a lot of our if a lot of if we're making a lot of decisions around the online reviews of various restaurants goods and services etc and now there's a way to just have an ai program do whatever you want it to do in terms of giving positive reviews to your place or negative reviews to someone else's place and presumably whatever the system of creating an account i don't know how good those captchas necessarily are at stopping like if you could write an ai program or if you could use an ai program to both create the account and then start just writing up positive reviews it just seems like this way that we use this method we use to decide if we're going to go to restaurant a or restaurant b maybe we need to rethink the whole thing and maybe you've never maybe the the difference between us andrew or what i hear in your voice is hesitation is maybe you've never relied on those sorts of um reviews to make your

No, I've been using them more and more. In fact, like because of me having to book hotels, I told you I was recently staying in Arizona, but I was a very, very short trip. So I needed a place that was like near the airport and, you know, and relatively affordable. But I wasn't super hung up on that. I just want a place that was sort of near the airport. But I also sort of think often, you know, in cities, the areas around airports are not the nicest areas, traditionally speaking. so I had some anxiety about like booking a hotel room online in a place that looked fine based on the website but actually I'd show up and it would be really old or the rooms would smell like smoke or something like that so I actually spent a lot of time like reading all kinds of reviews before booking my hotel at the what I end up at the Courtyard by Marriott Bon Voy my brother last weekend and I was really glad I did Luke and it was like because I read it had you know You always have some stinkers in there that are giving it one stars, but you can really sort of tell if the one star review is very specific to this person. Like this person got had the wrong person at the front desk or had some sort of complicated situation where they're just like bent out of shape. So they write a one star review. But mostly the good ones are, oh, yeah, this place is clean. This place is modern. And I really appreciated all those reviews. I did the same thing before sending you to put eyes on it at the place near your house that will be staying.

Love that lover's package. Again, because I got because I did get you the room with the heart shaped jacuzzi, though.

That's perfect. That's the one. That's the room that John and I will share. But so anyway, my point is that like the reviews are important to me. So I'm not. And again, I've just said the same thing over and over again. Like the only thing that sort of changes this dynamic from the conversation we would have been having, I don't know, five years ago is which we literally did have quite a bit like on the show and in our culture is can you trust reviews? And now I guess it's like this makes it somewhat more efficient for the a-holes who want to write fake reviews to do it. But it's still the same fundamental question hasn't changed just because we're using a different technology to maybe pump out a few extras.

an interesting thing that pete wells and some of these other people in this article start to point out is that these chat part of why people believe these chat or these gpt4 yelp reviews is because what they actually do what the gpt4 does is it goes and reads the other reviews and then it pieces its ideas together based on what other people are saying so in a weird way it's so it's not just like inventing a review based on nothing. It's actually sort of doing a survey of the other reviews that are presumably written by humans and are presumably honest out there and then putting it together. And this is how Pete Wells wraps up the piece. It probably won't be long before the idea of a purely human review will seem quaint. The robots will be invited to read over our shoulders, alert us when we've used the same adjective too many times, nudge us towards a more active verb the machines will be our teachers our editors our collaborators they'll even help us sound human and i think a part of that also is that you might just you might just take it as a given that when you're reading a yelp review of something it's it could be basically a compilation it could be a chat program that's just summarizing what hundreds of other people have maybe said about this thing and kind of giving you a sort of cliff's notes or a sparks notes

version of all the other reviews you know i this again is kind of very tangential to what you're talking about but going back to my recent experience with reviews i um you mentioned this on the show recently that also like these companies are soliciting our reviews and our feedbacks more and more and sometimes to an annoying degree as you brought up like you you know like

You rent one car for one afternoon from Avis or whatever, and then you get like 30 emails. Did you like your ride? Why haven't you reviewed us yet?

When you get an email, I will not be ignored from that hotel you're staying, and that's when you need to probably reach out to law enforcement.

You get one from Avis that says, what, have you died? I searched the ends of the earth for you. No, but I feel like, and this is where I'm getting just sort of old and probably closer and closer to all the types of people that we read in the rant and raves and everything. But because I relied so much on reviews in a couple of instances recently, after my quick trip to Arizona, I received emails from two different companies asking for my feedback and reviews. And one was Alaska Airlines, whom I love, one of the companies that I am most brand loyal to. But I was very angry at them for, you know, bumping my flight by three hours because of staffing issues and then offering me like a $12, too late offering me like a $12 meal voucher when most people know you can't buy much for $12 in an airport. There's just something about that specific thing that irritated me. So when Alaska was like, hey, would you like to review your experience flying out of Sky Harbor Airport? I was like, I would. And like I wrote that I was disappointed that, you know, I'm like I understand that in this industry, sometimes these things can't be avoided. But either way, this is an industry where I paid for something and I didn't get what I paid for and I don't get any kind of remuneration and we should get something more in terms of payback than – or a refund than a measly $12 that you can't buy a muffin with at an airport. Having said that, I went out and I filled out the rest of the thing and I said how great the staff is, how much I appreciate the people who work at Alaska Airlines and everything. And so I did that. And then also the hotel I stayed at, Courtyard, Bonvoy, was like, how did you like your stay? And I wrote like, I was like, I was really impressed. I had some trepidation staying so close to the airport. Your shuttle service ended up saving me so much time in the morning and it was so convenient. I really appreciated it. They said, do you want us to share this with other travelers? I'm like, please do. And so anyway, I'm also like the more I rely on them, I'm also trying to be in the business of giving honest and not just cranky, but honest reviews to these companies.

Meanwhile, that Applebee's riblet service will never recover from the review that you left them.

This is my box. This is my box. I never travel without my box. Oh, what's in the box? In the first drawer, I keep my magic stones. Oh, what's in the box? Licorice, licorice, blood sweet licorice, blood sweet licorice.

Have some.

I just blew myself.

Okay, Tobias.

Never, never, ever will not sound like Tobias to me.

Oh, man, it has been a long time since we have introduced a What's in the Box segment.

This is a very special edition of the segment, though, because I'm in the Southwaterfront of Portland, and because of the technical times of me being at a remote location, you and I are on a connection where I can't see you. Now, you know, this is normally a video production, but today it's not. So I'm going to need you to describe and spare no detail. Spare no detail. I need you to describe in your best, breathy, Kim Cattrall-style voice, what is in the box, my dude.

skippity bop bop i'm trying to remember how does she scat i couldn't get i couldn't conjure the

you kind of went you went a little more maybe scat man's world yeah she's more like zippy well he bit all the he dogs and called all the she dogs i swear i can i still cannot hear the

word he lock loan because i'll hear that you know you were talking about him for a while and i'll hear like the ads on the radio and i'm like fighting all the he locks um all right so here's the deal i want to let people know what's going on with this segment so we got a po box about a year ago and um that po or a couple years ago now and it is if you want to send us something you can send it to tbtl uh three three uh that's po box three three six eight seven seattle washington nine eight one three three it's on our website too but it's a po box three three six eight seven um and uh i oh want to say that usually i i hold on to these packages i go to the post office i saw this i shouldn't even say this on the show somebody tried to break into um all of the p.o boxes luckily ours wasn't touched but ones literally next to ours were all that kind of pride i was so mad there's it's those like old school in a post office it is but like you walk in the you walk in the the front doors and there's sort of a lobby where all of the p.o boxes are then you walk in another set of doors to go into like if you need to talk to like you know somebody who works there about sending out a package or something and i know they lock the doors at night because i tried to check the p.o box after hours one time after having it was drinking but he was i

was walking oh i was joking no luke i was literally one time walking home from goldie's shoreline casino on a saturday night and i was by myself i'd gone i'd pulled some tabs i'd eaten some chicken wings probably i watched the mariners and you were striding down the strode and i was striding down the strode i'd actually like no joke i was at goldie's shoreline casino place that you know well and that you introduced me to but this time i was by myself i'm sure i was there to watch a Mariners game, have a few beers, probably have some chicken wings, and I was probably feeling pretty good, and I was walking home. I wanted to stretch my legs after all of that, and so I was walking home, and I was passing the post office, and I was like, oh, do they keep those doors open after hours because, you know, you need a key to get into the PO boxes anyway, and I was very disappointed. It was probably like 10 o'clock at night, and somebody was inside, and they watched me try the doors, and I've never felt like a sketchier person, like, you know, like a few drinks and trying the locked doors after hours of the post office you never look like you're up to any good and certainly somebody was up to no good because a lot of the po and there are those old school sort of like ornate looking brass yeah come on i was really bummed to see that somebody had been trying to pry them open ours um still holds strong um but all that is to say we try to do this segment when you and i are in person together so that we can open these together and share them we have not done a show in person in a long time i feel terrible for folks who've sent things in way back in march that we haven't even opened yet and so i am going to um open a couple of them here today with you right now i have a big box here um i'm going to maybe save that for a second i'm going to start by opening this this is a thin envelope luke it's sent to too beautiful to live podcast but it's like kind of a printed out label and it's from seattle ultimate is this

an ultimate ultimate oh like ultimate frisbee i don't i think we have we dropped the frisbee

Yeah, you can't say Frisbee because it's –

You can't say anything anymore.

Because awoke. You can't call it ultimate Frisbee anymore. Go woke, go broke, Andrew.

I've said it once. I've said it one time, and then I stopped because it was dumb.

Oh, yeah. So somebody – is there a note in here? Somebody has sent us four vouchers, ticket vouchers, so that we can go watch Seattle Ultimate, professional ultimate. What? It's just like – I guess, you know, what is it, disc sports? I don't think you can say Frisbee. You're invited to Seattle's next big pro sport, Ultimate Frisbee. Oh, they use the word. They can use the word, I guess. Join us at any.

What's so wrong with me using it?

God, this segment really took a weird turn. Join us at any of the following dates and enjoy the game of Ultimate along with our Beer Garden Kids-owned food trucks. May 25th, June 29th. We missed that one. July 21st would be our last time. I told you, I held on to these packages too long, but we do have one more opportunity.

Does it say where they play?

They play at, this is a lot of pressure. You said July 29th is the last one? July 21st would be the last one. Oh, 21st, okay, okay. It's the Seattle Cascades versus Portland Nitro. Oh, geez. We can't go together. An I-5 rivalry. You and I are going to be at each other's throats, dude. It'll be like Homer Simpson and Bart. I don't see here where they play but we can do a little bit more research on that I don't want to bog things down too much

In all honesty that sounds actually really fun you know people give maybe people named me have given the idea of ultimate kind of a little bit of a hard time only because I do think naming your sport ultimate is a you're setting the bar pretty high but that being said what people are able to do playing that sport playing ultimate is pretty remarkable like it would be fun to see people operating at the highest possible

level of that thing and also there's a beer garden a kid zone okay i'm listening and more kids yeah i could use a kid rules on grown-ups going to the kid zone uh all right so thank you i don't have a name there is a name's the general manager and i look like maybe marketing person on that but i'm not sure if that uh is the listeners i've put that away but thank you for sending that in um now uh we have another package this is like a um you told me to really go into description here this is like a spare no detail this is a packing envelope oh you know who this is from mcshell in minnesota our friend mcshell mcnelly mcshell i believe mcnelly yeah i um don't when you have a name like mcshell you don't need to put the last name on the yeah exactly in fact mcshell has recently moved to just being a symbol i always think of mcshell as being from chicago And I don't think it's because she's moved. I think it's because I met her in person at our Chicago show. And so I'm always surprised when I see that Michelle is in Minnesota, which is a, oh, look at this. Okay, we got a postcard inside this padded envelope. It's a very cool-looking postcard. The picture is of a big, empty, concrete room with a company. of big, looks like brass objects of some sort. It says, Dearest Andrew, having heard your tale of woe concerning the state of your delicate ears. Oh, those might be like huge ears. Oh, my God, my whole ear thing. That's right. I forgot about that. That was so long ago. I felt bad for you. Never, you know, if I try to read handwriting on the show, I'm really going to slow things down here. but mcshell did send in um some uh clorox disinfecting wipes okay i think maybe to disinfect your ears keep my earbuds clean remember my earbuds were giving me some issues there you

know i'm on a whole air earphone adventure in my own life which is you know what's that what what

is that a sorry sound of and i'm sorry i wasn't able to read the note on the air uh live my eyes are not all that great and um but what what michelle has sent me is the old school style plug-in earbuds but the kind that don't go that far into your ear i don't know if you remember me bemoaning the fact that like the original uh ipod earbuds were kind of cool because they were sort of flat and they just sort of went a little bit into your ear but then at some point society decided that these things need to really dig in deep and those ones that dig in deep are the ones that caused me issues so mcshell sent me the old school kind and then some wipes to keep them clean sorry to cut off your story but uh that's a really sweet gift thank you mcshell that is sweet

um i because as i've talked about becca has expropriated my fancy airpod max headphones and you know we're going on a big trip this summer and uh i also would like to have noise cancelling technology for the long long flights and as i was cleaning out my basement and going through all kinds of old boxes of things that i had almost maybe never unpacked since i've moved down from the bay city of bellingham i found these bose blue like noise they're not bluetooth they're corded my my guy but they're bose bluetooth sorry i keep saying the wrong thing they're bose noise canceling noise canceling but they're like the original like they would sell them in a kiosk in the airport and i found them and i the the um the actual ear pad like the rubber part had rotted they were so old but i was able to order replacement parts on on the internet so they have brand spanking new little ear pillows on them and i am actually kind of excited i am going to be rocking the best bose corded noise cancelling technology that 2006 had to offer

nice on my trip this summer you know i know you have strong opinions about noise cancelling but i will say my new jbls like that technology is getting better and better and better and what i find fascinating the last time we talked about this a listener had sort of mentioned this in an email or something and i didn't quite understand it i think they were talking specifically about the new um whatever the apple over ear you know noise canceling uh yeah that's the airpod max the max that you were just mentioning um you know somebody had mentioned that not only they have noise canceling now but then they have that thing called like um you know it's not situational awareness but it's something like that ambient awareness i think they call it ambient aware Oh, wow. And my JBLs have that as well.

Something I've lacked throughout my adult life.

And I think that yours has these. I don't know if you kind of realize that or how to implement it. But basically, noise canceling is nice. But also, if you're out in traffic, if you are, for example, striding down a strode after a few beers at Goldie's, you want some ambient awareness, which is why it's called that. And so what it does is it doesn't disengage the noise cancellation. it turns on these tiny microphones one on each ear so it almost amplifies certain things around you have you noticed that have you played around with this at all no i because i my girlfriend stole that's right you don't have them anymore i don't know if 2006 will have that but i i don't

think they will but they look pretty handsome i can send you a picture i love my jbls by the way

i can um i can now i can crank that up and i can be a spy i can listen to conversations across the room i want to say we got a very nice postcard um from our friend summer who is doing a cross country trip recently thank you for that postcard summer and i have one big box here i'd like to share with you and i'm trying to see so this comes directly from that company zazzle luke are you

familiar with zazzle um no but i love the name zazzle i'm pretty sure and i'm guessing here

before i open this fully zazzle is one of those companies where you can customize things customize t-shirts hats make your own designs or whatever so my concern here is if this comes directly from zazzle i might not be able to see who this is from now i will say i got an email from a number one listener the perfect 10 i'm sorry not number one listener the perfect 10 nick who uh said he was going to send us something.

And I'm wondering if that is what is in here. So I don't know who this is from. I'm going to assume it's from Nick. These are two mugs that say I slay 35% of the day. And they have two swords on them because of us spoofing about the mugs that say, you know, like slay all day.

Yeah, the TBTL mugs, which you can buy. I assume you can buy those at tbtl.net. We do have a merch store. We do. Don't sleep on that.

So these are not the official TBTL versions that we made. I'm guessing that Nick, or whoever sent these, made these up before I got off my ass and made our versions. These are quite badass mugs, Luke. I will send you one. It says I slay 35% of the day.

Will you just bring those down when you come down on Sunday for TBTL-a-thon 15, and we can incorporate them into the coffee mug selection in the Madrona Hill studio?

I most certainly will, but your dad cannot eat cereal out of them. You understand that?

I took a picture, by the way, this weekend. I poured some frosted flakes into a bowl and put some milk in there. And I took a picture and I almost sent it to you to just let you know what an effective system for eating cereal these bowls are that you and my dad dismiss as being a useful bowl.

I don't know how you've roped me into that side of the argument. All I'm saying is, is like we can acknowledge as human beings who use bowls that different shaped bowls serve different purposes as well. Right. Like I was eating pho yesterday. Would you eat pho out of one of these?

Let me think. Sure. I mean, I guess a smaller amount of it. I mean, I would probably you know what I would do for pho, honestly, is I would get a larger bowl like an in between like a mixing bowl and a regular like what we think of as a standard cereal bowl. Like I feel like pho, you do need a larger bowl, but you almost need something that's larger than even a regular cereal bowl.

You do, but that's my point here. Like I was eating pho yesterday and I was like thinking like even if this was the same sized bowl, like if it held the same amount of soup, you still wouldn't want it to be super long and wide, right? Like pho needs to be kind of – like just acknowledging that different bowls have different purposes I think is something that we – I refuse to acknowledge that. I figured we could all agree on. And you think that one bowl can serve all purposes in life, and it can be shallow.

I don't need to come to the middle on this for you, Andrew. You're wrong, and I'm right.

All right. Sounds good. All right. Well, that was What's in the Box, everybody. It ended with a pretty intense fight between Luke and I that I don't know that we're going to recover from.

Once again, the What's in the Box segment has torn this relationship apart.

That's why we can't do it all that often. Sorry. I don't feel like I'll—can I be honest with you and the listeners? Yes. I'm not very good at that segment. That's why I like doing it when we're together. I think you're better at describing things. You're better at being cool under pressure and reading things on the fly. I don't think that at all. I feel like I was panicky throughout that whole thing. I don't think I gave credit where credit is due for all the beautiful things people sent us. Thank you, everybody, for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers.

I want to be honest, Andrew. I got a chance to experience this like one of the listeners because I'm just listening to you. I'm not seeing you. And I thought you did a good job. I could totally picture what you were describing, and I found it entertaining. I wanted to know what was happening next. Did you want to know what's in the box? I was very curious as to what, in fact, is in the box.

Licorice. Licorice.

I wanted to try to throw another Tobias joke in, but I literally couldn't think of one thing he says other than, I just blew myself.

You know he says something about John Wayne Airport.

Well, Andrew, that was the other thing I was going to say, but it was too long and complicated, and I only remember like a quarter of it. This seems like as good a place as any to wrap today's episode up, so we will. but guess what we will be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for and yes Davey Rothbart will yes in fact be here because I will be back at the Madrona Hill studio so please do join us for that in the meantime have a great Tuesday take care of yourselves please remember no mountain too tall and good luck to all Power out.