Muse

sometimes you end up getting where you want to go and then find out when you get there that you don't want to be where you're at and then you feel like this is all just a waste of time but just remember if you never got there then you'd always be wanting to get there and then you don't know you don't want to be there until you get there so sometimes you just got to go where you don't want to go just know that that's not where you want to be okay that was It was super freaking awesome the rest of your day and stuff. TBTL!

You know, I think about this, and what about this internet thing? Do you know anything about that?

What is this guy trying to do? Is this supposed to be what Bozo's thinking or saying? What guy? It's Bozo. Bozo did it. Bozo did what? Bozo did the dub. He's doing the dub. Bozo is not a guy.

Chips and dips, chips and dips. I love chips and dips.

Can you imagine doing a podcast for 10 and a half, 11 years? I'd feel terrible.

Okay, goodbye. Say goodbye, Derek.

Goodbye. I hope we same place again very now.

His brain is wrong. Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Tuesday edition of TBTL, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. I cannot stand these morons any longer. My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host and boom goes the dynamite coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio perched high above the mighty Columbia where thankfully the rain has stopped but the sun is yet to come out but we will take it being dry here on episode 4260 in a collector series let the fun begin we have got so much food news today to share with you Welcome to Food News Today. Including the Ohio Supreme Court weighing in on bones v. wings. Excuse me. These are the best Cajun chicken niblets I've ever had. I get a little emotional thinking about boneless wings and the Ohio State Supreme Court and their recent ruling on the matter, so we will talk about that. also um oh by the way i'm not even kidding the dissent in the ohio state supreme court related to bones v wings was spicy i'm not even kidding it's spicy also we have an update in the seattle pizza community uh related to a pizza place that we just talked about on the show the other day so We'll get into that as well, and we'll find out if we, and by we I mean the listeners, made enough bracelets on Sunday to satisfy the needs of the listeners who donated to the show, many of whom were there making bracelets. So we'll get an update on that as well. And we'll talk to this guy, longest-running co-bro of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. You've garbled your last ghoul.

He's Andrew Walsh, and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend. Good morning, Luke. The comparisons are easy to make between drugs and beads when you have a whole bunch of Ziploc bags filled with TBTL friendship bracelets scattered. I shouldn't even say scattered. I would say organized neatly around your house. and while you and your girlfriend are carefully sorting them out, clipping them back, counting them, and we do it all naked so that there's no loss, you know what I mean?

Baking soda.

We've got baking soda, exactly.

Do you feel like there should be some sort of Leo DiCaprio voiceover? Because you're in some sort of Scorsese prestige flick where it's like, we were making money hand over fist. We just couldn't get the drugs fast enough out of Miami. And it's like, what's the song that's playing in the background?

It's something by the Rolling Stones. Some kind of 80s rock. I was literally thinking of a Rolling Stones song. Of course, it's Scorsese. Has there ever been a Scorsese movie that doesn't have a Rolling Stones song in it?

It's like Jumpin' Jack Flash is playing as we have the Leo voiceover, and you and Veeves are nude in your basement counting beats.

God, I want to see this movie. Or Ray Liotta sweating and driving through the streets.

Or Paul Sorvino cutting garlic impossibly thin with the razor blade. I don't want to go to jail, Andrew. But if I do, I'm going to be the guy cutting the garlic impossibly thin with the razor blade.

I mean, I don't know that I've ever sliced garlic and not thought of that scene. Honestly, like that is so, it just, and that's Goodfellas, right? Yeah, that's Paulie. I believe that's Goodfellas. So anyway, for folks who don't know what I'm talking about, we left our bracelet making party on Sunday. Genevieve and I came home with a giant plastic bin of bracelets, not beads, but all bracelets that were made. But they were the ones that the listeners were making and collecting in that in that tall glass tower. We had just we had dumped that back to the Michaels, by the way. Oh, yeah. Do you? Oh, you have that, right? So I don't think I have it here with me.

And that's reasonable, right? Like we did use it, but we didn't abuse it. Oh, you really are taking it back. Yeah, because you said it wasn't. Dude, it was $40.

Yeah, it wasn't free, that's for sure. And what if you can't take it back? Is there anything you could imagine yourself doing? I mean, it's a pretty impressive glass tower of a vase.

Well, Death Rocks comes to mind. Oh, my God, you're right. It's a mini Death Rock collector. Do you know how I did? So I went to two places. I know, I'm sorry. We're trying to get to this number of bracelets thing. But do you know that I actually started going to the Joanne in my town And walked in, and of course, I mean, look, no offense, no shade But Joanne kind of suck Oh, really? Compared to Michael's

I would say I'm not an expert at that, but I think that's shade Like, I don't think you can say, like, no offense, but your booty stank Like, I just don't think you can do that

I mean, Joanne booty do stank, though No, here's what I would say If you live in a town that has both a Joanne and a Michael save yourself really i didn't know that it's michael's is everything that's at the joanne but better in my in my experience because for instance i went into the joanne and the first thing was there was literally one employee in the store now granted it was like 9 30 a.m on a sunday which is getting in there pretty early there's one employee and he was up on a ladder but um uh they didn't have uh they didn't have like a the largest uh you know vessel they had for this was roughly the size of the one that becca loaned us but what i said to the guy because i didn't really know how to explain this was like do you have a clear round tall thing that i could put um like christmas tree ornaments in oh that was what i went i tried to i tried to put it in the context of all that came before me in that joanne i figured that's a thing that like you know like the balls like the kind of like sure what do you even call those yeah an ornament

Yeah, like a round Christmas tree ornament.

Yeah, yeah. I just figured that's the thing you might put in there. Like, there's probably somebody who's got that just as a statement piece in their house next to a giant clock.

Or, I mean, I also picture, like, the type of house that has, like, in the corner somewhere. Or maybe if there's a big, tall-ceilinged room. Like, I feel like this is too tall to put up on a table. But you might have, like, those decorative branches. I don't know how to describe it other than decorative branches could be put in this and then put in the corner as a little accent piece.

It's the kind of kitchen where, up until recently, they had a lot of rooster-related material.

Yes, yeah, sure, exactly.

But it's French. It's like Le Cacque. But now they've taken that out because they're following Joanna Gaines wherever she takes them. Sure, so that's the kind of jar.

How tall would you say it is? Maybe three feet tall? I bet three, probably.

The one that I brought up to Seattle when we're discussing.

And people can even check it out if you want to watch the archived live beat cam. How many views on beat cam, by the way? I have no idea. I didn't even look. Probably three. Over, under. 10 you're taking the over or the under what do you call it when you just take the line is it the line can i just take 10 no because that's not how over under works you can't just choose the line

oh i thought no because over under is is going to be more or less than a thing yeah is you know is geno smith going to throw more or fewer like the over under on geno smith throwing touchdowns

would be like one and a half but wouldn't you but if you say oh yeah one if you have the half obviously you can't throw a half i always thought you could like say okay well i'm gonna take the

exact number and if i nail it then i'm a rich boy well i mean with the spread you could do that i see point spread uh but then again they often make it a half point so that you have to kind of

you know pick one yeah okay okay that makes sense so uh let's see is so you're saying it's 10 40 vase back to michael in longview washington um so i'm gonna take the i'm gonna say if i'm being honest I'll probably take the over but just just barely I'm gonna say we had 15 people yeah between 12 and 15 um so anyway Genevieve and I on Sunday came home with this big plastic vat of beads and Genevieve said well let's we got to start counting them out anyway and also like I said we were just doing a little bit of quality control like kind of trimming some of the little excess um string on some of them making them all nice and pretty and then packaging them up and counting them because we were very interested in knowing how many we had instead of just shipping them all off to a john in the midwest at least this way we can send them something that has some somewhat of you know control factor around it exactly are we just going to send him a big

thing of beads and then trust him right well exactly number as aziz ansari once said about thread count you didn't think i was going to count that shit

One of my favorite jokes. I actually meant to talk to you about that.

I put new sheets on my bed yesterday, and I don't know what the thread count is. They were Kirkland brand, the finest thread count that they sell at the Costco. Life changer. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Hotel quality. Hotel quality. I got new pillows as well. I mean, it was weird. I've been hanging on to these pillows. I know we're getting no closer to the bead number. This is good. Or bracelet numbers. But I have been, I've, you know, moved and split up many times in my life, as has been well documented on the show. And I would say that these pillows that I just decided to relegate to the, like, storage room have been with me for the last 10 years. And you know what new pillows cost? Like, really nice new pillows are, like, $20 a piece. Maybe $30 a pillow.

I have some sort of a memory foam pillow that I think gets a little bit up there. But you're just saying nice, non-memory foamy pillows. I think my pillow is close to $100. But I'm not trying.

The pillow keeps the score.

Yeah, it really does. But I have a special pillow.

Okay, but even let's just say it's $100. That's a lot of money. But also for something that you lay your head on every single night of your life pretty much. It seems like a good investment. I guess my point is, and also part of what prompted this was one of the pillowcases was tearing. And every time I would wash it and put it back on the pillow, it would tear a little bit more. It was very Dickensian up there in my bedroom is what I'm trying to say. And my, I got the sleep of my life last night.

You bought a couple of new pillows and pillowcases and a whole set of sheets, but you got new pillows as well. I have four new pillows.

Actually, I bought a lot of stuff because there's a bed in here that I have now put out for people when they stayed over, Becca's family. And I redid the bedding and the pillows in the guest room because people were staying over. So I ended up buying, I don't know, like six or eight pillows and multiple sheet sets. But I hadn't gotten around to putting the new nice sheets on my bed. And I did last—first I washed them, obviously. And then I put them on last night. And I woke up this morning and I was like, why do I feel so good right now? Like, I can't put my finger on it.

That's a great feeling.

And it was thread count.

And you're really good at, I envy this, like, we think of me as the kind of fastidious one, generally speaking, in almost any room, I guess. But you're, like, really disciplined about washing your sheets at least once a week, aren't you? Yeah. That's really good. Like, I shoot for that, but I don't get anywhere near it. Probably, like, more like two or three weeks.

Well, first of all, night sweats. I have a medical condition, so that helps keep me on my toes. But I also just think the key is to have the clean set somewhere in your room, maybe in a closet, just folded and ready to go.

Oh, yeah. We always have extra sets ready to go.

Because I think in my younger days, I didn't have that. Maybe there was an extra set somewhere. But oftentimes, it was like, I'm going to take this off. I'm going to wash all of it, put it back on. And that just seemed daunting. But now I'm just like, this will take five minutes. I will listen to, you know, the daily. And, yeah, it's not as much. The ROI on it is pretty high to me, you know, for the five minutes that it takes. So, yeah, I'm a clean boy. Nice. Is really the point of this whole story. Okay, can we please, though, get back to the real important stuff, which is drug bracelets?

How many bracelets do we have? And the question is, do we have enough? vives and i have been counting bagging and i have i have one more thing to say and we're going to get i think we're going to get john sklar off on the line here in a second to tell us exactly how many like what the line is that we think we need to be over what number speaking of over under what number we need to be over or if we're going back to make more bracelets genevieve is prepared to make more bracelets with me if need be i've heard from some other friends and tens who said that they're willing to make more bracelets i don't know if we're going to need that or not i think genevieve is actually sort of hoping to make more bracelets i think she's caught bracelet fever but would you say this might save the relationship um i don't think anything is saving this relationship have you met me um foresaw the inevitable it could maybe forestall the inevitable could it buy you six months exactly if it gives us something to do so that she doesn't have to pay attention to the same joke she's heard for the past 24 years or whatever um now i need to it's not even coming clean it's really throwing somebody under the bus but i need to be i need to be transparent about something here i don't know exactly what number we need to get over but if we are one bracelet short i need to let you and the listeners know that genevieve pinched one of these

bracelets i'm not even joking you know i'm fine with that i was encouraging rampant theft on sunday

i was the opposite i was telling people that we're counting we're going to check their pockets as

they were walking this is a real well that's you kept asking everyone to please See you next time.

Make the bracelets in the nude. I did. Which John Sklaroff, who joins us now, TBTL employee numero uno and our HR kept telling you that you can't request that of the listeners who are here making beats.

I just kept saying, no, I'm going to get naked. And that's okay, right, John?

This is – should I call back a different time? This conversation is taking the turn for the worse, I think.

Nope. This is the time that you need to be on the line. Yeah.

Okay. So, okay, let's get down to it here. The listeners, I mean, I went through the whole kind of arc of this story yesterday, but, like, the beginning on Sunday, I think most of us were realizing, oh, this is kind of hard. This kind of takes a minute. And it seemed like maybe we weren't going to get to the goal. Then suddenly there was just this wave of bracelets, many of them made by young Iris, and we filled that tube, that slightly phallic tube up, and then it overflowed. It was very biblical, too. There's something in the Bible about your cup being pressed down, shaken out, and overflowing, which is a way of talking about your good fortune.

You're sure that's not a Missy Elliott song?

Hold on, let me put my thing down a little bit.

Yeah, there it is.

All right. So by the end, I was looking at the amount of bracelets that the listeners had kindly made for us, and I thought maybe we got there. So I guess the question is, John, how many, roughly speaking, how many bracelets do we need to fulfill our mission of sending a bracelet to everybody who donated?

Yeah, I think the number we're looking at is like 1,700. That gives us some extras, too, because things might get lost in the mail. So 1,700 was the number we were kind of targeting.

All right, we're trying to get to 1,700, and then Andrew.

Okay. Over the drum roll, I'm going to say we were packaging these. Hold on, please, please. Oh, okay, you're not going to give the amount. No, I'll wait until the end. We were packaging these things up in bags of 40. We had one bag with just 11 bracelets in it. We have 43 bags with 40 for a grand total of 1,000. 730 1730 1730 you're telling me we needed to get over 1700 Genevieve pinched a friendo bracelet that was very beautiful all pink and uh red beads on that one but we still have 1730 so i think we have met our mark mission accomplished mission amazing get a banner get an aircraft carrier let's do this

heck of a job brownie all right we did it everybody john are you surprised that we actually got there

uh no i don't think surprise is a word because at the end of the night we saw how many beads were left over and there were enough materials theoretically if everything was delivered correctly um to do 2 000 so i was like at the end of the night when we were kind of cleaning up i'm like okay i think there's less than 300 beads or bracelets worth of beads there so i think we should be good um but definitely relieved and thankful and grateful for everyone

that came out and really what was jess's policy on making bracelets if she needed to yeah yeah it just was just ready to step into the breach the way v was what um no no no she thinks

she thought it was a ridiculous idea this is foolhardy she was against it from the beginning

it's that's good to know write that down luke um so i i have another i have um and i'm not even joking about this i've already sworn once on the show so i'm going to swear again because we already have that explicit ranking for today um you guys i'm serious i am scared shitless about shipping these things should i ship them all in i mean is there any benefit in shipping this in two different shipments in case one gets lost we're only down half of our supply like we have spent so much energy and money and the time time of the tens making these things if we if there's one mistake with usps or ups or fedex or whatever we choose or randy's delivery service what can brown do to you what can brown do you yeah don't use randy's that sounds sketchy yeah so i don't know i'm serious randy's discount shipping do you guys have any concern about this do i have to buy a plane ticket like do i need to make this a carry-on and deliver it like handcuffed to my wrist to minnesota it i i mean do you want to drive it out here oh that would be kind of an adventure story wouldn't it or i gotta get on a train and a plane and a car and a boat i wouldn't risk it on the boat and then e-bike too as well i mean you guys i am not this is not a bit i'm not joking like do you think i should ship this in two separate shipments like are we worried about losing these no i think

I think you should ship them, but definitely pay for the tracking number, all of the sort of – pay for all of the ways that we can know where this thing is going. I did have – what was it that – Your tuxedo or your suits or whatever. Yes.

That's what I mean. Mistakes happen.

Yeah, but that was so – that's so rare.

Literally, what are we going to do if we lose these? Do we start over?

Can I ask you a question, Andrew?

Yeah.

So, like, statistically, and I don't know what the numbers are, if there's a chance of losing one, do we then increase our chances of losing one by shipping it as two? You know what I'm saying? If we're sending more things, doesn't that then increase our risk of loss?

That's like getting struck by lightning once instead of twice. That's not exactly a good analogy. But I see what you're saying. You're right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, if something's going to get lost, like, well, now we're saying multiple things. Maybe we just are doubling our chances of losing something, I think.

Maybe we just need to have good vibes. Just Eugenio Suarez it your way. Absolutely. Teasta Fernandez it. I'll use Gino's. I'll use Gino's delivery service, good vibes only, and send it your way and hope for the best. And also, I was wondering, when they ask me, don't they usually ask you, like, what is this package worth? How do I even begin to tell them what this is worth? It's priceless. It's literally priceless, right? Like this is... Yeah.

I would insure it for no less than $100,000. Okay. Because that's how much we're going to have to pay. That's the street value of those bracelets if we have to pay... Because there's no way we're asking listeners to come back to the Eagles and make $1,700 more bracelets.

That's what I'm saying. Exactly. So I don't know if we need a backup plan or not. But for now, we will just hope for the rest.

Here's another idea for transport. What if we do like a relay, like a rally, like a Campbell Run-style rally where we give... enlist the tens again, have somebody drive them from Seattle. Don't bring Dom DeLuise into this. Yeah, well, go to Eastern Washington. I would never trust

Burt Reynolds with these bracelets.

There's probably a chimp involved, too. I really like that idea.

I do think that we should have some sort of TBTL cannonball run-esque adventure at some point in our life. That's actually a really, really good point. That actually is a good idea. Those cross-country romp movies, that was a whole genre for a while. There were so many of them. Rat Race. Rat Race, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, or is that the one where the bottle comes out of the sky? I get those confused. That's The Gods Must Be Crazy. Oh, that's The Gods Must Be Crazy, right.

I saw a headline about that movie. John, you're too young for this The Gods Must Be Crazy discourse. But are you familiar with that film? No. In the 80s, it was this sensation. And the headline that I saw was it was the number one movie in the world, and then it just fell off the radar. Did you actually ever watch The Gods Must Be Crazy, Andrew?

I did. I rented it once, either high school or college, when I was just renting all kinds of stuff.

It's like a Coca-Cola bottle falls out of the sky in Africa somewhere and then leads a tribesman on some sort of madcap journey, right?

I believe that's all I know about it. That's all I barely remember, yes.

But I don't think it involved Dom DeLuise. No, that wasn't involved Dom DeLuise. Mad, mad, mad world, cannonball run kind of sort of movie where there was a million cameos of people that were on some madcap voyage. I believe it was one guy on a madcap voyage in The Gods Must Be Crazy.

Yeah, that sounds about right. But anyway, okay, so point being, I'm sorry if I belabored this, but I actually am really excited to know that we actually did meet our mark. And this is like the, this is the. you know when you're seeing it really changes the vibe it really does guilty

um yeah guilty of having the world's longest drum exactly so well thank you john

again hey i was saying this to luke off air and maybe even on air but thank you for everything you did to set up that event on friday that was amazing or sunday really good mathing on the beads

too like we got to the number we needed to so i mean congratulations on that because that was a much more complicated thing than i realized going in so thank you for everything that you did to

make those bracelets happen yeah no i was super thrilled to be a part of it thrilled to be able to be out there on Sunday and meet so many tents in person for a first time and it was so much fun. Again, I'll just say before I jump off, again, thank you, thank you, thank you for everyone who helped out because literally there was no way that was going to happen without you guys. So thank you, everyone. Guys, I guess I'll talk to you tomorrow at our weekly TBTB meeting.

Yeah, I might have to send a proxy, but we'll see. You know, we have important things

to talk about. I'll talk to you guys later.

It's about that guy at the Quaker who insists on emailing me and won't get on a phone call with me?

Well, but he emailed you back. Oh, is that really? Yeah, he emailed me back

and told me to email him. Yeah, whatever. We'll get into it tomorrow.

John, do you know this? Do you know that Andrew's in a battle

with the Quakers? John's copied on all of these.

Oh, so you do know about this. I learned about it yesterday for the first time. I just thought we could have one week off where we don't have to have a business boy meeting. I thought post-bracelets, That's pre-Philly. Yeah, sorry. All right, that's fair.

Sorry, there's things I got to talk to you guys about. All right, talk to you later. Bye, Judd. I think I cut him off.

Hello, and welcome to Top Story. So the top story that I was all ready to talk about with you today, Andrew, related to boneless wings in Ohio, But then you sent me and our friend P. Fletch a screen cap from the Seattle Times that I believe said something to the effect of local pizza house shuddering. And the local pizza house is the North Lake Tavern Coombe Big Mario's that we talked about extensively, I think, on Friday's show. I went on this whole thing about how— What the hell happened?

What did you do? That's the question. one of this whole thing about how so often when you have a beloved old school place that has to go out of business for one reason or another and then somebody else takes it over usually it doesn't have the old school charm and comfort and coziness that the original place had instead it's going to be some place that's called like za or I don't even know what you would call a trendy pizza place these days probably not za but anyway fire and stone very thrilled when North Lake Tavern fire plus stone exactly I was very thrilled when the beloved North Lake Tavern was taken over by Big Mario's a small like kind of local now chain of pizzerias and bars and I finally visited they were open maybe for about I don't know 8, 9 10 months or something under the new ownership Genevieve and I were craving pizza the other night went there sat in a family style booth got a large pizza slurped it down like Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles i was so psyched that that place had new ownership but kind of in i i would say sort of the vibe there but also maintained uh the the sort of old school charm of it in certain ways or at least the coziness of this place i was psyched about it and then i open up the seattle times today and the big front page story is a beloved pizza shop closed then reopened and it's closing again apparently big marios couldn't make it happen i'm really bummed about this and i

do feel like it's my fault i'm not gonna lie well here's my problem with this what i would say is on the line of being bunk journalism the photo that the seattle times is using now maybe maybe they thought this through and what they are representing is the larger idea of the north lake tavern right which was there much longer than it was a big mario so if you're saying this place that was beloved as closing down. Maybe the photo you should use is of it in its original version. But when I saw this photo, I was like, Andrew, you have completely buried the lead. They have checked tablecloths. They have those kind of red vinyl stackable chairs that we used to break out at church when we had a lot of people there, which rarely happened at Gospel Outreach. But no, this is a photo of the North Lake Tavern. Do you feel like it's bunk journalism for them to use a photo of the original version instead of the latest iteration?

I was surprised because it had the telltale, as we were discussing on last week's show, David Horsey murals still on the wall here, which I told you, I think I don't think they were removed or destroyed. I'm just guessing on that. But when the when it opened under new ownership, I think that they just sort of covered those up because it's not quite the vibe there. But the the style of the wall. All's remains sort of like the main structure of the lines where the murals are sort of inset. That's all still there. Originally, it's just a little bit. I think maybe they remove some of these tables and you're at the tablecloths and chairs are probably have were updated. I'm going to guess for the new ownership. I don't I was surprised that they used a photo of the restaurant under old ownership. But if you think about it, the headline here is this place was open for like 35 years or something. then it was under new ownership for like nine or ten months and now it's closing again i guess you

can make the argument for using the old photo yeah i think i've talked myself into that um i guess also the question is because you know one of the things that you were reporting on friday was that the vibe was still pretty good i wonder if maybe they should have made the vibe bad and they would have succeeded and by bad i just mean calling it fire plus stone and completely that's what i mean Like, were they a victim of the fact that they were trying to preserve the the old vibes? And, you know, and that was not that was not what people in that. Also, what do we even call that neighborhood? I guess Northlake.

I guess it's more like I mean, it's like Wallingford adjacent, you know, like it's like right between Wallingford and the U District. And there's nothing really between those two. So maybe it is just Northlake. Like, I'm going to read to you. There's not a lot of information on this because I guess the people who own Big Mario's haven't really commented. But, like, I don't, you know, it says Big Mario. And this is what bums me out. I was texting with you and Phyllis about this this morning. I think I just landed on the part you're about to read. And, like, Phyllis was like, you said it was so great. Why would it be closing? I'm like, well, because I don't have good taste in things. Things I like, the public doesn't like, apparently. It says, Big Mario's management did not return a request for comment, but in online reviews, wildly inconsistent is a theme among complaints about the food and service at the Northlake location. I just went there once. I was there for about 90 minutes, ate pizza that was good, and the service was like, the person behind the bar was super friendly and nice, and I felt very, very welcome. So I don't know what happens on other days of the week.

Were they playing death metal?

No, no.

That's one of my problems with the Capitol Hill Big Marios is I do think it suffered. I mean, I haven't been there in years, but times that I've been there, it has struck me that it is a and it's probably sort of generational. But it did feel at times like they were playing music that was designed to drive me out of the establishment.

Sometimes they do that at the Leary Way one, too, where I go to watch movies. But I mean, that's sort of their vibe. But the thing is, like, yeah, that's not for you, which is fine. It's not really for me either.

But I mean, it's what those played to get Manuel Noriega to leave his stronghold in Panama.

But I would say that like those establishments aren't going out of business. This one is. So, you know, like I don't. But they played more death. Maybe. But no, it was I can't explain like how welcoming this place was. I don't know if they had a jukebox on. They were playing whatever, like kind of there was no music that was like getting in the way of the dining experience. And then they went into trivia night, which, you know, started at eight o'clock. We were just there for the beginning of it. You know, it was one of those geeks that drink, you know, kind of trivia night things that you can kind of sign up for. And it was just like, it was just fine. It just seemed like a good little community hangout. I'm like really bummed.

That is a bummer. I didn't tell you, I think when we were talking about it on Friday and you mentioned that there was trivia, that on Thursday night in L.A., I walked into a Mexican restaurant that was, I didn't realize, was having trivia and then had to break it to the hostess that I was by myself, A, and B, not about listening to trivia.

Oh, so you actually kind of turned around and left, yeah.

Yeah, and I was debating. It was one of those things. She was like, table for one, and I was like, yeah, can I just sit at the bar? And then it was like the mic was really loud. Oh, yeah. And they were just getting started, and the guy was, I don't know, was just not what I was – I wasn't ready to match that energy.

Yeah, that's totally fair.

But I did feel – I felt a little Charlie Brown-ish, kind of like, again, by myself walking into a place and it was packed. People were excited. Oh, yeah.

That's not what you want. That's a totally different vibe if you're just going somewhere for like, you know, like whatever, you're going to get a salad or a glass of wine, whatever it is. Like it's, I mean, especially if it's super, super packed. They don't need that and they understand that that's, like I've done, I think this is more egregious. I've done that for live music before. Like you, I was kind of surprised we had this conversation several months ago. I think you said that in, i think you said that in most cases as long as the music isn't like way too loud or aggressive or whatever you would prefer live music in a dining establishment if it's done right one of

the things i love about honolulu and maybe you know or waikiki i should say maybe you noticed this when you guys were back there but like it's a big thing to have live music there's almost always somebody with a guitar playing somewhere over the rainbow yeah like and i dig it like that adds to my experience as long as it's not death metal yeah if it's um depending on what it is and

what the situation

is i i'm i'm fine with that but there are definitely times where you're kind of like you're sitting down you're like oh man let's check this place out it's really great love the vibe here and you just put in your order and then all of a sudden you hear like the the slight feedback of a microphone clicking on and you look over and there's a band in the corner you're like

oh you've got to be shitting me yeah to me it's the question is is it one person or multiple people one person i'm always down for multiple people this could go this could go sideways yeah exactly

So I don't know. I mean, according to this article, they are still, you know, it may still end up being a pizza shop. It's not one of those situations where like the building is coming down or something, which is often the story of these types of closures in Seattle, for better or for worse or for both. But so it says that they are hoping that some this is what I don't get. They said that they hoped the Mario's brand would dovetail with the North Lake legacy. But now we feel that North Lake would do better under new stewardship as simply the North Lake Tavern again. So I don't know what that means. I don't know if anybody's willing to pick that up. Honestly, I don't get – if the North Lake Tavern wasn't working and then Big Mario was able to kind of revive it a little bit, I don't understand who's going to pick this up. Probably it will become P plus Za or something like that, and it'll be wood-fired.

I don't think that's the vibe down there. I mean, there's no part of Seattle proper that is particularly blue-collar anymore just because it's so unaffordable. but i was going to say like i think the issue is people are not going to that part of seattle to get food and it's not there's nothing there to have their boat put on a skylift exactly which

i think is kind of cool but you're absolutely right there's no well i mean there's vula's the diner next door to it but they're just basically on this little island together and vula's probably closes at four in the afternoon probably around the time big mario's opens and there's nothing else there there's no foot traffic um if you're a student from the university you'd probably you know what would it be luke like maybe close to a mile walk maybe maybe three quarters of a mile or something it would not be conveniently located yeah i would you know that's that's a great for me three quarters of three quarters of a mile walk home after eating too much pizza is perfect and maybe a couple of beers is perfect for me but it's just not it's not like on the av where all the action in it is maybe that's what the problem is but i think the key thing is is we get these bracelets out to the listeners we count our donations and we see if we can turn it into too beautiful to pizza too beautiful to i'm trying to think what's how do we

make an l work with the pizza concept that's you don't put liverwurst on pizza do you not in the northwest did you i don't know how they did it in geauga county there is a recall on i know by the

way that's not where you lived i just like seeing it there was a recall on boar's head meats i saw the other day and i don't know if that strikes up close to first of all i hate the name boar's head meat that does seem to be the kind of the standard bearer of of like kind of uh deli uh meat around here it is the default setting it is and so vives and i usually keep like maybe some like kind of turkey in the refrigerator just kind of default and uh i saw a headline that said boar's head meat recall and i'm like oh son of a gun what's going on here and i click on it it's like it was like literally like pimento loaf or liverwurst or something i'm just like i think you can recall that in a day i think you just i'm coming around on pimento loaf by really

that's like i don't eat bologna with pimento in it i guess yes and i grew up with green olives i

believe right with pimento in them maybe so it's not just the pimento that's in the olive but it's

the full olive with pimento i mean that's my sense again i don't i don't eat that stuff very much but But I know that pimento loaf was a real go-to in the 80s for a sort of unappetizing, oh, it's pimento loaf. It looks really off-putting. It does, but if I think about the components, it's like, okay, bologna, which is not really my thing, but I could get down with it if I needed to. And then green olives with pimento, I love that stuff. Like, I actually, head cheese is what I'm not trying to mess with. Ugh, yeah. That gelatinous nightmare.

No, you're right. I mean, when you break it down like that, like I've never had pimento loaf. It always looked like a disease to me. But you're right. I like bologna. I kind of forgot. Do you remember last year was bologna summer for me, I think? Or was that two years ago? I kind of forgot. I grew up. Oh, yeah. You got on a real bologna kick. I really did. And that's not just referring to my usual dribble-drabble during the show. But I used to eat bologna a lot as a kid. Like a lot as a kid. That was a main like kind of, you know, that was what we took to school. But you got the like from the deli. my parents would get that yeah slice it for you yeah not the like oscar meyer off the like kind of like pre-packaged or something about that that always seemed like there's going to be some bologna water in the package or something like i can't i can't explain it like i am i have some weird whatever i do not like settled it yeah pretty much any kind of any kind of like um deli meat that is sold kind of pre-packaged i'm not into i like to get it like from the sliced but anyway you're right i i like bologna i had a little resurgence of my bologna fandom a year or two ago and then i kind of forgot about that i like olives i don't know why i would be so turned off by pimento loaf other than we were presentation go ahead yeah when we were growing up

it was it really was a punch line you know what i mean like i feel like i i've probably never eaten pimento loaf in my life but if you would ask me as a kid what's one of the grossest things you could eat i would say pimento loaf because it was i don't know if it was like you know jim davis creator of garfield had a problem with i don't know who was you know sort of smack talking the the good name of pimento loaf but it definitely made an impression on me what is your theory on boneless wings andrew and do you think that the name the term boneless wings

should ensure a boneless experience see sorry i'm a little confused here because i i i know about this story but i get confused because there was a whole controversy about boneless wings not really being wing meat that there's no such thing as a boneless wing they're actually just like usually like other parts of the chicken that are cut up into niblets and then sauced up and they call them wings and they're like well that's not wing meat i believe there was a lawsuit about that at one point this is actual wing meat that is that has actually been deboned is that what

we're talking about here the the issue is not the origin of the meat the issue is that a guy in ohio in 2016 was eating boneless wings what were described as boneless wings and he ingested a two-inch bone that apparently tore his esophagus oh christ yeah yeah and he sued the restaurant and And I believe the actual, like, you know, whoever made the quote-unquote boneless wings. And it went all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court. This guy is named, let me see if I can find his name here. His last name is Berkheimer. Berkheimer, anybody? That's all I need. That's all I need. He sued the restaurant as well as the supplier and the farm that produced the chicken. But in a 4-3 ruling, the court, this is the Ohio Supreme Court, The court said that, quote, boneless wings refers to a cooking style and that Berkheimer should have been on guard against bones since it's common knowledge that chickens have bones. Oh, you've gobbled your last goo.

That's what I told you. It's a spicy rule. No.

Be careful, though. It's spicy. No. Oh, one of the majority justices wrote, quote, a diner reading boneless wings on a menu would no more believe that the restaurant was warranting the absence of bones in the item than believe the items were made from chicken wings. Just as a person eating, quote, chicken fingers would know he had not been served fingers. A dissenting justice called this, quote, utter jabberwocky.

It is utter jabberwocky. What if you? OK, well, then what is this? This is tearing the Ohio State Supreme Court apart. This is tearing me apart, Lisa. What about, what if you were eating a chicken tender? What if you're eating a breaded chicken tender and there was an errant bone in there? We don't expect.

I think you'd have even less of a case, according to the majority ruling, because that's not even promising you that it's boneless. It's just promising you, I guess, that it's tender.

Yeah, but okay, well then, I mean, every meat we eat, and I mean, this is going to turn you off. And one of the reasons you don't like eating meat, because you don't like, I think, thinking about this too much.

But like one chicken looked into my soul one time on the freeway. It's never been right again.

But OK, let's say that. OK, ribeye steak. I'm a big fan of ribeye steak. That's the cut I usually go for. Right. You can get it with the bone at the grocery store. You can get it boneless.

And I think most people I refer to the bone in the steak. Is that is that what the I part of ribeye is?

I don't know. I don't think so, because, again, like usually if I order a ribeye steak, whether I'm buying it and cooking it at home myself, or if I'm buying it at a restaurant, usually it is boneless, I think. I could be wrong about that. There could be some aficionados out there. I've definitely had a bone-in ribeye steak at a steakhouse before, but often it is served boneless, and you can maybe choose, or it'll say, a boneless ribeye steak or a bone-in. Now, if I order that boneless ribeye steak and there's an errant piece of bone in there, it might be like this particular case with the chicken, and you say, well, it's still a steak it's still you know cow meat and so therefore you should be on guard okay well then what about a hamburger now that's still beef that's still the same animal that at one point had that had bones in it and again i'm sorry that this is gross but we have to do this for the law like at what point should we just always be prepared to choke on bones if we're eating anything that's an animal product what about a glass of milk that's i you know what you've you've convinced me that it is, in fact, utter jabberwock.

It is utter jabberwock.

walking i'm actually kind of upset by this i'm kind of glad i didn't read the story i would have

had a bad morning right i mean i don't know i don't know what the makeup of the court is in ohio i don't know if this is you know they've packed this court or not if these are you know trump friendly justices or what but i mean that is a pretty wild ruling actually because if you're told something is boneless and then you eat it and then a bone in there tears your esophagus i think you got a pretty good case absolutely that is bonkers and then i they're

confusing things by bringing up the chicken tenders or chicken fingers situation yeah nobody thinks it don't cloud the issue justice alito i feel like they're doing some sort of a some sort of a bad hacky stand-up chicken fingers they're not fingers and they're not chicken not chicken like that doesn't even why do we park on the chicken finger and drive on the ribeye by the

By the way, it gets its name from the inner muscle strand of the prime rib. Well, that must make you hungry. Oh, God. It makes me feel even better about my decision to lay off the meat.

You guys can't see this, but Luke is tucking a cartoonish napkin into the front of his shirt right now, and he's licking his lips, and he's got a fork and a knife in each hand.

To my meat-eating friends and foes, this is for everybody. i saw something and then you're in both categories oh okay i saw something yesterday from the um i think it might be the bon appetit like uh or what's the what's the gourmet is that bon appetit the gourmet magazine um i think i mean yeah i think it's one you're not talking about cooks illustrated no it was one of those ones one of those kind of like highbrow magazines that now has a tiktok feed oh okay showing you how to cook stuff cook stuff the right way as it were and the guy said we've all been or a lot of people myself included in my steak eating days we've been cooking our steaks wrong and I'm curious to get your take on this what he was saying was the way that we've all been taught to cook a steak is to get the grill really hot or the whatever really hot and then sear the outside and then get this crust going and then you know the idea is the inside should be sort of pink and the outside should be really crusted but he said what tends to happen with that is the outside is burned and the inside is underdone and he said what the way that he would recommend it is you actually you first of all put it let it rest you know bring it out and and let it sit to room temperature which i think most people know

but i disagree with that by the way and cook's illustrated has a whole piece debunking that

veves and i fight about that all the time yes okay well uh they were also saying that basically their advice was to sort of par cook the steak a little bit you know what i mean like bake it and essentially cook the inside and then sear the outside very quickly so that you then get that crust going but the inside has been cooked sufficiently because it does, to my mind, it does kind of stand to reason. Why would the preferred cooking method be char the outside and then hope that some of that heat makes its way into the inside as opposed to bring the inside up to the temperature and doneness you want and then put a sear on it at the end?

You know, I mean, I didn't read that piece. And if that person makes a good steak that way, I guarantee you whoever wrote that is a much better cook than I am. I mean, not even a close comparison. So that's fine. I guess I bristle a little bit about like you're doing it wrong. All I know is I've eaten a lot of steaks in my life and I've cooked a lot of steaks in my life. And the way we like it is when I get the grill nice and hot. I mean, the grill is the ideal, although I can do it in a skillet as well or at a restaurant. I like the way it's always been prepared, and maybe this person can improve on that a little bit. But I also like my steaks pretty darn rare, like in the middle. That's one of the reasons why I don't understand. I understand maybe if you're going for a more evenly cooked steak all the way through, maybe let it get to room temperature. But I want something that is very – I love a good seasoned char on the outside and a really pink, if not red, inside.

I think it might have spoken to me because on the pretty infrequent occasion that I do eat a steak, which is not zero, probably I have like one steak a year, for me, undercooked is a worse outcome than overcooked. And that just shows you what a Philistine I am. Because, you know, everybody who's cultured wants it to be blue. Don't do that. There's no—I mean, we like food the way we like food. It's not wrong. I know that I've taken you through my ordering process for a steak, right? You've probably actually witnessed it at some point. I don't know. I try to get it essentially well done without ever using the words well done.

Oh, you've told me about this before. It's like, can I have a medium?

But medium, but a little bit up, a little north of medium. So kind of medium plus. And they're like, okay, medium plus. But then a little north of that. Right, exactly. Eventually it's like, could you turn it into Yogi Berra's catcher's mitt, please, and bring it out?

And I know I've said this a million times on the show, and I just have a lot of stuff.

kind of wrapped up in this generally speaking but first of all the way you like your steak luke is not how i like my steak they might even be kind of close to the opposite ends of the spectrum but i am never going to be the guy who's kind of like oh dude you're eating your steak wrong oh you're doing it all wrong you're wasting your steak you're not wasting your steak if you like the way it tastes and feels in your mouth the way you the way you order it or the way you cook it then you're doing it right like i i really dislike the kind of you're doing it wrong attitude about

things and i want to say for the record i don't it wasn't the vibe of this video i watched it wasn't totally you're doing it wrong it was just like try it this way oh sure yeah i mean more of

people if they're gonna like oh ruins a steak or whatever like i just am so exhausted there's several things i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna expand this out to the point where it makes absolutely no sense we're just gonna have to end the show but like i'm just i kind of i get so exhausted about people kind of saying you're doing it wrong you should never put this topping on this food or whatever it's like well maybe you can if you're that person who enjoys how that tastes But also, like, there's a sort of, like, anything that becomes sort of, like, challenging about food. Like, I know that there's that show Hot Ones or whatever, which is very popular. But, like, I like spicy food, but there's a – here's a good example. There's a commercial on TV right now, and I think it's, believe it or not, for, like, a Google translation app or some sort of translation app. And it shows a young woman in, and she's traveling abroad somewhere. She's like a young American woman and she's somewhere in like an Asian country, I believe. And she's eating some sort of street food, you know, and she's communicating the point of the commercial is she's using this app to communicate with the woman who's preparing her food. And the the the the chef, the woman who's running the food stand or whatever, says, like, how spicy do you want it? And the young woman is like as spicy as you can make it. And she's like, you can't handle that. She's like, I can't handle that. And it's like, oh, look, I hate this idea of, like, challenge me with your food. Performative eating. If it's performative often, and not in this case of this commercial because it's two women, but often there's a sort of masculinity involved in it. Or the idea of men grill and men know how to cook steak. Everything that's wrapped up in the you're doing it wrong or you're not manly because you don't know how to light a grill or anything. All that shit just turns me off so much.

Are you saying I have to turn in my world's best griller apron that I bought at the Home Depot for myself?

No, you have to throw away the one that says, kiss me, I'm Luke-ish, that you kept wearing during the TV telethon.

You know, I think this probably came up when we did the hot dog episode because we were literally standing, I think, at a grill in my backyard in my old house. But I will say this about myself. I have a lot of ego related issues and a lot of insecurity and a lot of things. There's one thing that I have completely zero kind of ego tied up in, and that is handling the grilling duties like that is something I'm just so bad at that. it has completely stopped me from having any sort of like pride around that like i remember you know having some big barbecue at my house and all this stuff going on and uh my old house in bellingham and somebody being there i think it might have even been actually misha my uh my friend misha the actor from the show supernatural who said like would it totally bum you out if i just like jumped in on that because like he probably knows what he's doing so it's kind of like i could you know help with that and i was like are you kidding me i would love nothing more than for you to deal with this bs so i can go drink a gin and tonic in the pool like i love other people grilling i have that's the one thing that i just no part of my sense of self-worth is tied up in my grilling

ability i i i'm somewhere in the middle on that because i am very insecure when i'm cooking for other people no matter what i'm kind of insecure when i'm cooking for just vives and i especially if it is something like steak where it's like, oh, wow, this was like a twenty three dollar piece of meat, you know, and you can like you can kind of ruin it very quickly. And so I will get a little anxious about things. I think I usually do an OK job depending on what it is, if it's something that is in my comfort zone, especially if it's like the second grilling of the season, the first grilling of the season. Nobody can be around for that because you're still remembering how the grill works. But I will say that if I'm cooking for a bunch of people, I'm very anxious about it. And if I want some help, I am not shy to ask for it. Say, hey, can you take a look at this? Like, what does this look like to you if I'm with somebody who has more grilling experience? I will admit that depending on how they approach it, there have been times where I've been irritated by people just volunteering all of their advice. Like, there have been times where I've been cooking at, like, one of Genevieve's parties or something, and I'm manning the grill.

You've got your B-52s on your boombox.

And then people start gathering around because, yeah, exactly, or De La Soul or what have you, or Digital Underground. but I always think of you because I bought a few digital underground CDs when I was on my kind of CD gathering journey a few years ago and those always came out when I was grilling but

You know, sometimes when you're at a party and you're at your own party or whatever, and you're grilling for the folks, and maybe people are starting to get hungry and antsy or whatever, and then people start gathering around the grill and everybody's got a goddamn opinion, I will say, or telling you what to do. Like, I will say I've gotten a little shirty. I don't think that's happened a lot, but I've gotten a little bit shirty in those situations. I don't know if outwardly or just inwardly. Maybe it was more like hair shirty. But anyway. So yeah, but on the other hand, I am not somebody who has so much pride that I will not turn to a friend or somebody who's there who knows more about grilling and say, hey, what do you think of this? Or if they wanted to take over, maybe say, yeah, could you look after this? I'm going to go grab something from the kitchen. So I'm in between.

Do you do the thing with the palm of your hand? I have. About the doneness? Does that actually, I feel like for a while I thought that really worked, but I think I was regularly turning out over or underdone steak. So I don't know if I believe that anymore.

Yeah. I mean, I think I sort of believe it. i think at a certain point you just start to know again like i just if i'm cooking steaks it's i it's going to be pretty rare that i'm cooking steaks for a big group of people or something so it's probably just me and veves anyway and we kind of just know now like um if anything i might leave it on for a second too long and then we'll cut into and be like ah we got to cut it up like because i don't i don't want it to sit there you got to remember that it's going to cook a while off of the grill if you haven't cut into it so there have been a couple of times i'm like oh we got to cut this nowsies because otherwise it's going to get to be too much but i don't care what the

apron says andrew i refuse to kiss the cook oh okay that is not legal despite what you've said that is not legally binding i don't know don't make me get john back on the line um we need to go but i just want to tell you that the dissenting justice in this ohio case along with calling it utter jabberwock he said the question must be asked does anyone really believe that the parents in this country who feed their young children boneless wings we have patriotic music we can put under this can you punch that in post that the question must be asked does anyone really believe that the parents in this country who feed their young children boneless wings or chicken tenders or chicken nuggets or chicken fingers expect bones to be in the chicken of course they don't wrote justice michael p donnelly when they read the word boneless they think that it means without bones as do all sensible people now that is a dissenting opinion my friend

this is more hobbity than patriotic but i know no it worked it absolutely worked i think it added a little grabby toss okay good yeah i i also wonder if we type in i was going to do this before I became a DJ there. If we just type, how do you spell Jabberwocky?

Or is that what it is? It's in the article. It is Jabberwocky. J-A-B-B-E-R-W-O-C-K-Y. Jabberwocky. That's a Tennyson, right? Is that the poet?

I'm not sure, but I wanted to see if we do a, oh, yeah, because it's in, no, no, it's Lewis Carroll because it's in the Jabberwockys. Oh, it's in Alice in Wonderland or whatever. I didn't even, I wasn't even making that connection until you said that, but I'm now going to look at news. I thought for sure if I did a Google news search on the word Jabberwocky, this would be the first thing to pop up. I was wrong. The first article is Grant will help Jabberwocky Studios programs help more Columbia kids. So there you go. Wow. No, there's a lot of Jabberwocky in the news these days.

Well, that's that dance troupe, right, that got really famous for a while. Oh, is that what this is? Yeah, they wear these masks so you don't actually see their faces, but they do cool dance moves. I think they're called Jabberwockies.

Oh, is that what Jabberwocky Studios is in this story? Maybe, maybe not. That part, I couldn't tell you. It's also a racehorse, Jabberwocky upset Lady Liberty. Okay.

All right. Well, we're out. Well, glad I could help out, Luke. Anything else you need me for? Listen, I appreciate you getting in front of my Tennyson reference, because that would have sent people emailing. I appreciate the quick fact check on that. Save some ink. All right. That's going to do it for today's episode, but I have some incredible news. We are going to be right back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for you. I am now so hungry for so-called tavern-style pizza. Oh, yeah. I know that's not even what they were doing at the Big Mario's, but I now want whatever that is. I want some of it. So, oh, by the way, the guy at the pizza joint down in town was wearing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles T-shirt as he was making the pizza the other day. And I thought, I like it. You're really leaning into the vibe.

You just reminded me. I think I have maybe one or two slices of pizza left over from the bracelet-making party in my refrigerator. Maybe I'll go eat that for lunch.

You didn't? Did you please tell me you and Veeves did take home an entire giant-ass pizza?

We took home an entire pizza, and I believe there's maybe two, maybe three slices left. I'm not sure. Good.

All right. Kiss the cook. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back here tomorrow with more Imaginary. Radio. In the meantime, have a great Tuesday. Take care of yourselves and please remember, no mountain too tall. And good luck to all.

Power out.