Muse

Is that a good job, FBI agent? Get to travel around and stuff?

Sometimes you do.

You know, we get a lot of detectives here, but I must say I can't ever remember one as attractive.

I graduated from UVA, doctorate. It's not a charm school.

Louise Starling wants nothing more than to make it at the FBI. But so far, turning heads is easier than getting ahead. My job's come up, and I thought about you. Not a job, really. More of an interesting errand.

Who's the subject?

The psychiatrist, Hannibal Lecter. Now, her new assignment might be biting off more than she can chew.

Crawford's very clever using you. Pretty young woman. Perhaps you'd care to lend us your view on this questionnaire, sir. Did you do all these wrongs, Doctor? All that detail just from memory, sir?

Memory agents, darling, is what I have instead of a view. I tell you things, you tell me things. not about this case though about yourself

are you hitting on me doc?

people will say we're in love

maybe you can decide for yourself whether or not I'm qualified enough to do that

just do your job but never forget what he is

and what is that?

Jodie Foster you fly back to school now little starting and Anthony Hopkins in the most romantic movie of the year oh Clarice

your problem is you need to get more fun out of mine

The Silence of the Lambs

I thought, well, this is a great, bright group of people. They're really into what they're doing. They're exciting. They're excited. They're doing cool things. They're wacky, and I fit right in. Sometimes you just got to, you know, grit your teeth and look life right in the face, and you say, stop it, you know? Please stop, please. Why are you doing this to me? I haven't even done anything to you. Please stop. Is there, and I'm just guessing here, some kind of medication that you maybe need a lot of and have taken none of, or maybe too much of today?

Can't you say anything in a normal way? The answer, sadly, is not yes.

this is not a show about dreams this is a show about the human condition and sometimes the human condition involves dreams uh-oh he's starting that funny talk again hello everybody welcome to a monday edition of tbtl this is the show that just might be too beautiful

to live i don't know who that is and i don't care to find out my name is andrew walsh and i am

filling in today in the big boy hosting chair because Luke is out traveling Europe in his new Tevas and of course that leaves some pretty big Tevas to fill here on the show but I have got the perfect person sitting across from me right now to do just that. In fact we've been looking at the early polling and in many states our special guest today ranks higher than both me and Luke in likability. And you know her as the co-host of the wildly popular podcast after these messages, but she's so, so much more than that.

I am a social media brand ambassador for myself, for my own account, and for a third party account as well, which belongs to my dog, who's a pet, who I do also brand negotiation deals for him as well. And I do DJing also for party and events and corporate and personal and public. And I do also certified, I'm a lash tech also, but I haven't really done that in a while, but I'm still certified to do it. And I also just do negotiating brand deals for my own account as well, and commercial acting as well, as well as modeling and some acting as well.

Her name is Genevieve Haas, and she joins us now. Hey, Genevieve.

Hi, Andrew.

That's the longest intro tape I think anybody's ever had on the show. Well, I'm a busy lady. You're lucky that I was able to fit you in. You are a busy lady. Thanks for doing this. Actually, you really are busy. I appreciate you doing this. I realized I was just saying that because it's the thing to say, and then it occurred to me, wait, no, I really do appreciate you taking time out of your busy day. I mentioned that, of course, you and I host the After These Messages podcast together, all about TV commercials. And you were crunching the numbers today. It looks like we have listeners again. That's exciting.

Yeah, we went through a little summer lull in listenership. not you know it never drops wild isn't this the swings aren't wild swings and we don't have uh you know um a game-changing amount of listeners to begin with but i it's funny when like for reasons that i guess are just having to do with people's summer schedules we like see a little drop off in the summer and then the fall comes back around and um i guess people are like back in the car doing carpools or whatever and and um we get a little bump in the numbers or we're putting out, suddenly we're putting out more interesting shows, but I

really don't think that's well that's the hard thing to measure right because if you see that like oh today's show has more listens than let's say last week's show we do it every tuesday can you say oh that's because this week's show was better it's like no people don't know that it's better and it's not like we're big enough that we're getting a lot of word of mouth right i mean like we didn't have like the former president barack obama on and so therefore that's getting a lot of earned media but you should we are gonna have him on at some point

this year so keep tuning in are we are you is that happening i'm working are you efforting that i'm

efforting is that one of your least favorite nouns turned into a verb yeah that that makes my skin crawl i enjoy doing the show with you whether people are listening or not i guess that speaks for both what we're doing right now and after these messages yeah one thing i love about so

don't don't start thinking that it matters if you listen listeners because we'll do this yeah we can

do this alone we often and we often do i love doing after these messages with you it's a fun thing to do on a tuesday evening um and you make me laugh a lot uh but also i love that it's just

so easy to explain it is fun to be able to say in one sentence you do a podcast for a living what

is it about um well it's me and this guy it started as a radio show and it's me and this guy you probably know luke burbanks on sunday morning oh yeah and by the way in all of that

You still haven't gotten anywhere near to what it is, quote, about.

What it is about. And then somebody say, oh, you do a podcast together with Genevieve? What's it about? TV commercials. Oh, I don't like TV commercials. That's okay. We don't like them all either, but you like talking about them, don't you? They're fun.

What I always say to that is, oh, I don't like TV commercials. And I always say, oh, but do you have opinions? It sounds like you have some opinions about them.

Someone's got some opinions. Would you say that your favorite thing doing after these messages is naming the shows? I'm looking at some of the local.

I love our show names.

What are some of your favorite show titles? You don't have a list in front of you there.

One of my favorite ones was Welcome to the Jungle Baby You're Going to Buy.

That's what we try to. And what was the theme of that show?

I think it was literally like jungle animals.

Oh, jungle animals. So we try to kind of find some sort of a theme. Not just like, oh, we're going to be talking about toothpaste ads or something. But instead more like, hey, here's a bunch of ads for things that maybe, you know, all the scenes take place in the dentist's office yeah what we're interested in is usually tropes

yeah right and that can be a trope like a a particular visual or a particular setting like yeah like we did one on dentist's office or it can be i like the ones that are a little bit more abstract which are often harder to explain but um i like shows where we're talking about like an approach to marketing so like one of our very earliest ones was commercials where the product is somehow apologizing for itself.

Yeah, we're getting a new rash of those too. Might be time to revisit that. I thought we did a mini show on that because Domino's was like, they have this whole, we know our pizza sucks.

Oh, they've been telling us how bad their pizza is. Stop telling us your pizza is bad. As long as I have been watching commercials for Domino's. And it's just like, at some point I think you got to stop saying how bad your pizza is. That might be why people don't like your pizza.

I remembered that our show about, that have scenes that take place in dental offices. I thought it had a funny name. I just looked it up. This was back in, this was like four months ago.

It was Be Dental With Me.

Be Dental With Me. That one was pretty good. I didn't think of any other good ones here. One of my favorites, of course, was Sell It Like Selick, which I found a whole bunch of old commercials featuring Tom Selick throughout the decades. Yeah. I'd play a commercial for you, and you'd have to tell me whether or not he had a mustache in the commercial.

To the degree that I like an abstract concept, you to the same degree like a quiz, like to do a quiz that is predicated on something just completely trivial or ineffable or, you know, just kind of like just the idea of the quiz is what's funny to you.

We're not serious people.

We're not serious people. But the consequences of listening to our podcast are extremely serious.

That is true. Yes. My Maloney has a first name. Oh, yeah. I'm just looking back here. Sorry. We gotta stop looking up our own navels here

If you enjoy wordplay Let me encourage you to go look at all the Names of our podcasts over the Eight years we've been doing it

Genevieve has a lot of rules But one of her rules

I'm a rule follower and a rule maker And enforcer

If we know we're working on a show That has a specific topic And I have an idea For what we can call that show ahead of time You will reject it out of hand you're always trying to get it you're like we only do that after the show you're like we only name it after the show we don't go into the show knowing and you've thrown away good titles because i've come up with it before the show i don't understand that logic well i don't understand why you can't learn to keep your powder dry you're just like shut my yapper shut your yeah i have now adjusted now i pretend like after the show like hey i have an i have a little light bulb a little prop that i hold over my head i'm like i'm getting an idea right now genevieve you're telling me you have learned to shut your yapper i from time to time but sometimes my jokes are so good i can't keep them myself until after the show the reason by the way that i brought up dreams at the very beginning of the show that seemed like definitely a non-sequitur let's see if we can make that make sense here we are going to be talking about dreams today but not the dreams I did have wacky dreams last night I won't do it I realize I don't have a lot of nightmares or scary dreams

that's going to be a topic of conversation yeah because

you didn't find an article like a couple of weeks ago an article came across your transom from the New York Times about dreams that also include some sort of quiz and it's not a fun funny quiz but it's an actual yeah it's a knowledge quiz and i have not read this article and i've not taken the quiz so you're gonna administer that quiz to me to see because i love talking about dreams right yeah the listeners don't love it when i talk about dreams so talk about trying to keep my powder dry today i won't go into the details of my dream last night but it was really upsetting uh and i don't get a lot of nightmares but i'm gonna say maybe in the past you know maybe in the past three months i've had

three nightmares does it seem like a lot well there's a question here about percentage of dreams that are nightmares and so it'll be interesting to see how that maps to your

experience yeah maybe maybe i've had three or four maybe three in the past three or four months or

something like that do you qualify any dream that is you know unsettling as a nightmare maybe i'm

maybe i yeah maybe i should just say bad dream i don't know if we categorize those differently but here's what I was going to say about it is I think of myself as somebody who doesn't usually have bad dreams or nightmares I think the fact that I've had several in the past several months is an outlier for me but one thing I've noticed

you just like you leave it all to the intrusive thoughts during the daytime exactly that's how

you get it all that's how you fight nightmares live a nightmare live just live a nightmare live a waking nightmare every day

and you'll be and your nights will be just absolutely

serene just a waking nightmare of every dumb thing you've ever said across your 47 years just be washing dishes and think everything is fine and then suddenly go yep because you remember something that happened 15 years ago and maybe your girlfriend is in the kitchen behind you and you don't even know it because you're wearing headphones and she suddenly says are you okay yeah and you say i'm oh i'm fine on the regular i think you've like cut yourself badly with a knife but it's the knife of your mind oh if only oh that sounds so clean and easy so you just put a band-aid on that yeah there's no psychic band-aids all right so what i was gonna say about my bad dreams is i don't think i realize how upsetting they are until i wake from them if that makes sense i had some kind of really yeah it kind of doesn't i had some really messed up dreams last night but i feel like i'm a bit of a trooper in my bad dream like all right well this is the reality or whatever and then i wake up and i say vives i just had a dream and then as i start to say it i'm like my god that is really upsetting and it's kind of like it doesn't i'm not waking up like full of fear until i start like kind of processing what i've dreamt and then i realize it i feel like you're different first of all you and i are a couple where it is not unusual for us just to wake up in the morning and say any dreams yeah like you like talking about dreams or did i just are you just putting up with me for this i like talking about my own dreams and i

recognize that it's that that is a relationship or a trait that must be done reciprocally it is

that is true i'm glad you like talking about your dreams i like hearing about other people's dreams as well i feel like when you have bad dreams and i feel like you're more susceptible to them than

me i don't know you would agree with that i think maybe i tend to remember i do think i have maybe more bad dreams than you or dreams where the dominate the the dominant feeling is one of unease to fear some somewhere on that spectrum and i think that that maybe i'm remembering those more than the other than other kinds of dreams so yeah i guess i mean the question of whether we dream and don't remember the dream and then if you have a dream that you don't remember did you have the dream is an interesting kind of like it's kind of it's like how many babies can you

fit in a tire kind of a thing you know right yeah it's actually more of a tree falls in the forest kind of a thing like in reality um i guess though just to try to make my point which i don't know that i'm going to be able to do i feel like when you wake up from a bad dream like you You're more shaken.

I'm rattled.

You're rattled is a good way of putting it. Where, like, you're like, oh, my God. Like, what did I just wake up from? Whereas it kind of takes me a second. I have to shake it off. And I'm like, hey, I had a weird dream. And then I started talking about it. I'm just like, oh. And, like, literally last night, well, I'll just say it in 15 seconds or less. But it was upsetting. Like, there was basically some guy who was an evil guy. And he was dressed up like a superhero. And he was forcing me to do what he said. and he would shoot me with drugs from time to time and make me pass out for hours on end.

I mean, spoiler alert, but you basically lifted that directly from a plot of one of the episodes of The Boys. Did I? More or less. Really? Yeah, there's like a pretty rough S&M inflected episode of The Boys.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, and while I told you-

That is pretty upsetting.

Yeah, and while I told you, that's the thing, in my dream there was nothing explicitly sexual, but if I process it, I feel like, well, there's something implicit going on there.

Yeah, power, dominance.

Yes, exactly. So I do wonder if that's, you know, in the superhero thing, I just re-watched season three of The Boys so that I could watch season four of The Boys. That's the newest one, right? And so while I haven't watched that show in probably a week now, you're right, that clearly is something that's been living in my head since I did, you know, kind of binge two seasons at once. So where are you right now as far as having that quiz ready to go from the New York Times? And what can you tell us about the actual article?

Sure. This is an article that kind of is really just a quiz with some, you know, when you answer it, it gives you a little bit of explanation about what's going on. But this popped up a couple of weeks ago, I think maybe that very end of July. So now a couple of weeks. And the headline is, how much do you know about your dreams? and it says scientists aren't exactly sure why we dream but they've put forth many theories our nightly adventures may help us rehearse threatening situations work through emotions and process information but for all of the unknowns there is plenty that researchers do know and some of it may surprise you so that's so that there's 12 questions they're also questions

multiple choice all right should we get started with the quiz with you look like a dream catcher game of life so i'm looking at my sound effects here i don't seem to have my buzzer in front of me um i have a bell yeah do you want to ring the bell or do i ring the bell when i get one right

um i'll i'll tell you if you get it right and you ring the bell okay sounds good and then

if i get it wrong unless i can find the buzzer can i do it can i do a boing you can do a i'll do a boing but remember boings sound like something good but they're actually something bad right it means i got it wrong okay it's a bad boing okay good girls and bad boings all right um what is the first question all right which recurring dream is the most common

among adults in the united states and do you i will give you the opportunity to go if you have an idea you want to jump in I have an idea before I give you the

multiple choices I'm going to say it's a return to school

that's not one of the options not even one of the options although I often have that dream so frequently

I don't know if you guys do this too but when I wake up from a dream sometimes I will google what does this dream mean And then it's always, it's kind of always the same, like, sort of very broad, like.

Anxiety.

Yeah, whatever. But I have read, for whatever it's worth, that the return to school dream, if you're having that, it's because you're stressed out about your work currently.

Yeah, which is, like, a pretty one-to-one.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

All right, so here are the options. A house that you've lived in or been to.

Oh, wow, I get that one all the time.

Falling.

Mm-hmm.

Snakes.

Mm-hmm. being chased by someone or something wow the chased okay i'm gonna eliminate and i don't know if i'm right obviously i'm gonna eliminate snakes here um and falling is who are you saint patrick hold on one second everybody that was a good joke throw all my catholic peeps out there okay so i'm gonna say i don't think it's the snake one But falling, you hear about that being a common dream. I don't have the falling dream anymore. I had it a lot when I was a kid. And when I was a kid, Genevieve, I don't know if you know this about me, I sang in the church choir, especially around the holidays, but I think it was a year-long thing for me. And we sang up in this balcony in the back of the church. And I was and remained scared of heights. And I remember I would, like, look over the edge of the balcony. like in real life sometimes and you know get the thrill of looking down at all the pews in the church um but then i would go to sleep sometimes at night and i would i would have dreams that i was falling from that balcony oh i never landed yeah you would think that falling and falling

with your extreme fear of heights you'd think falling dreams would be kind of a common one

for you nope left that one behind a big one for me is traveling dreams i'm always dreaming i'm on a bus or a or a plane or often on a bus to a train boats everything um so the chasing thing the falling thing i'm going to put into play what was the first oh the returning to the house you've lived i have that one all the time my childhood home my first home i'm going to go with that one

it's a i will tell you that's the one i also said yeah but it's not right oh no falling is the most common really yeah so falling or floating was the most common dream and i put in a 2022 poll followed by a familiar house and memories from childhood then a sexual experience and being

chased they didn't leave they left the sexual experience out of the multiple choice yes

other common dreams include arriving too late for some things dreams centered on school um even though we tend to remember our bizarre dreams scientific studies show that most dreams are mundane um says this johns hopkins guy who's john hopkins all right uh what is that so i'm i'm oh for one here you're oh for one true or false most people dream in black and white false yes oh yay um i remember being hearing that as a canard like hearing that idea when i was a kid and my and i said it i repeated that assertion in front of my dad and my dad said that's not true He was like, we don't dream in black and white any more than we see in black and white because we don't think in black and white. But this is an interesting, there's interesting explanation here. This is a widespread idea, but it isn't true. In the early days of TV and movies, people reported dreaming in black and white, which I can totally understand, right? Like you're consuming media and it like replay, like you're especially as like a media that is a new, a medium that's new and like very noteworthy to people. but in a 1942 study around 70% of people said that they dreamed this way. The same study 60 years later was less than 18%.

Wow, yeah, so that does make, I mean look, we were just talking about my dream from last night that I found upsetting and then you were like, well, you're dreaming about a TV show that you watched a week ago or across a couple of weeks a week ago. So, yeah, I could see how that would affect things.

Alright, number three. You're one for two. How much of our night, on average, is spent dreaming?

Oh, very little.

All right. So your options are under 15 minutes, one hour, at least two hours, or none of the above. 15 minutes. Under 15 minutes? 15 minutes or less. You're way off. No way. To the max, at least two hours. Really? I always thought- Yeah, how much you remember is probably less than 15 minutes. That's interesting. But somehow they've determined that you're actually dreaming for quite a bit. According to the National Institute of Health, people dream about two hours each night. But then this is kind of confusing. Dr. Stickgold, I don't remember where he works, but or she.

Probably a friend of Johns Hopkins.

John Hopkins said that when you include all forms of thoughts, imagery and emotion you experience when you're asleep, the number was closer to three hours. Like, how do you measure that?

Sleep studies.

I guess so but how do they know that you're if you if you are not how do they know what emotions you're experiencing unless you wake up and remember it you know well I think electrodes

you just think electrodes is the answer that's my understanding of science all right are you

ever tempted to do a sleep study yourself well I mean I would love to do one like I period you know i sign up for things where i like like i did that soap focus group right where i got can you talk about that now i thought you had an nda well i won't say what brand it was for but i think i can say that i was in a focus group where i got a bar of soap and i like very recently had to record every day uh like i had little various tasks to do reporting on how i experienced it how i liked all the aspects of it scent texture this is a major soap brand it's a major where did you see the opportunity to sign up for this i'm on a list i'm on some kind of like email list of people who are like available to try out for to like you know apply to be in focus groups for money i didn't know

that yeah because i don't think you're in that many focus groups are you are you doing a lot

that i don't know about no i've tried i've applied to do many of them but you have they're always looking for a specific combination of traits and like i'm a middle-aged professional middle class white woman with a graduate degree. like I don't you know that's who I am so if you need somebody who either that doesn't like violate any of the things that you need I actually one of the things they asked me in the in the prep for this was do you work in marketing and I don't really work in marketing but like I do work in a I work in the marketing and communications department of the university so I would not describe what i do as marketing but i'm very much marketing adjacent and i'm like privy to like the marketing conversation yeah and i actually had the woman who was signing me out who was like vetting me say like she clearly needed to like fill her quota on this one she's like i think

you're good and she's like oh so you were honest about that i'm surprised you i was i was honest

but i didn't like play up that i was involved in marketing and she basically was like don't she's

like just don't play up that you're in marketing oh wow well yeah i mean if you're a speech writer Like, if you just say that, like, on paper, people wouldn't make a connection that, oh, that's marketing. But, of course, it is a type of marketing. Whether it's for a university or a non-prof or a for-prof, you are shaping messages that that organization wants out there.

So, anyway, I forget how we got here.

Well, I'm interested in your soap thing. So, a major brand, soap, has either maybe a new, was it a new scent?

I think it was maybe a new packaging and a new scent.

yeah and they wanted to know um how you uh how you felt about it and i think you were somewhat mid

well i was surprised by how much i liked it because it was a scent and a color that i wouldn't buy like if i were just picking soap off the shelf i was just buying a package of just bar soap right and i do use bar soap um but i tend to want like a white bar with no scent and this was a i dyed like it had a color and it had a scent like a distinctive floral scent and i actually was surprised by how much i liked it but i'd have to say like i if i just saw it on the shelf i'd be like oh that looks a little like grandma's powder room you know and that was the feedback I gave them, basically.

There is a bar in Alley I'd go to. It's called Grandma's Powder Room. Oh, my gosh. What people got up to there? I was going to say you can't imagine, but actually, I think you can imagine. All right, what's the next question?

Okay. What percentage of everyday dreams are bad dreams or nightmares?

What percentage of everyday dreams are bad dreams or nightmares?

Your options are, do you want the options?

I'm going to start without the options. Don't tell me if I'm right or wrong right away, but I'm going to start by guessing 7%.

Well, the closest one to that would be 10% to 15%. Okay. And then you've got 50% to 70%, 25% to 40%.

I'll go 25% to 40%. Wait, just joking. I'm going to go with the lowest one, 15% to 20%. Yes, you got it. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Look at me. I don't think I mean, I'm sure it's different for everybody, but a very small percentage of my dreams, like I say, are are upsetting in some way.

Yeah. And I think because like when you know that you dream two hours a night, you know, from the last question. Oh, yeah. You know, the chances that like people are having, you know, hours and hours of bad dreams every night. I think I think we'd be hearing more about it. Honestly, I think dreams would actually be bigger in the news. if that was happening.

I feel like it's something that would be the beginning of a slow realization and the beginning of a Frank Miller comic book. Yeah, right. I've been having a really bad, hey, I've been having really bad dreams too. No, it would be a Neil Gaiman book, of course. Right, right, yeah. Wait a second, though. You know, to go back to that previous question, I had just, I think you pinpointed my mistake there is that maybe what I heard was the percentage of dreams that we remember. But for some reason, I've gone through life thinking that you wake up from a dream and we know that some dreams are more complete than others like I had one the other day where it's like many it was you know several different scenarios in one but they were I could remember the connective tissue of one to the other to the other so I woke up feeling like I'd had this epic dream that had this those are the ones I describe as like cinematic right but I always thought like oh but that was probably only the last seven minutes of me like waking up like it was just like a huge data dump in my brain that I then made sense of but that's not true that could have taken place over the course of me sleeping for an hour or two

yeah I remember being in like elementary school and reading a book about dreams and one of the things that I remember from this book was on in general when you have a dream it seems to take about as long in the dream as you perceive it to take like that's about how much time you are experiencing it is a is like your perception of time is is accurate so that like I

think you know that movie inception i do was all about dreams and the the i didn't like it i know you're that's not your kind of movie if we're christopher nolan's movies are too long and you don't like these ones that are how to describe them like the ones that are just sort of like very like conceptual sci-fi stuff you i don't think you liked interstellar i liked interstellar

more yeah i think i thought i was somebody who liked interstellar more than most people did

I don't think of you as a big Although you like Three Body Problem But anyway

All that to say

One of the big premises

Genevieve got so mad at me When I referred to the TV show Three Body Problem as hard sci-fi The TV show is not hard sci-fi The book is hard sci-fi

Yeah that's true So in the movie Inception They make a big deal about time And it's like oh your layers deep Into these lucid dreams And like time, it goes at some very predictable, like, you know, slowed rate that you can like use to see what's like how much is happening in the outside world. And it's all like, OK, none of that is even remotely real.

So I'm trying to that was Elliot Page.

Elliot Page is in that.

But who's is it a Damon?

No, it's a DiCaprio.

A DiCaprio. I get those guys confused all the time.

Somehow I know you continue to get them.

confused. Yeah, right. I really do. That's not a bit.

The Departed must have been an extremely confusing movie

for you. It really was. Wait a second. We've had this conversation. It really, really was. You couldn't

tell who the two, the main antagonist and the main protagonist depart?

Three. Who's the third person in there? Wahlberg. Yes, there's something about, and I know if you lined them up in front of me.

Could you at least tell which one was Martin Sheen?

I could actually do the it's not Matt Damon who I could do the DiCaprio point you know the meme of him pointing yeah I could point at each one of them and tell you like well of course I know that's Wahlberg of course I know that's Damon of course I know this DiCaprio but when they're not all there right next to each other standing in front of like a a height measurement wall yeah like in the they're not usual suspecting exactly like I get so confused and yes that show that movie was like Inception to me in its level of complication because like because they're all like undercover yes you know and so you you have to like constantly be remembering wait who's loyal to whom here

and their opposite numbers in the in the their respective uh like enemy camp yes and i can't

the best way i can i know they don't look alike but somehow those three people sort of as you would say maybe take up the same brain space for me and so therefore it's hard for me to pull them apart yeah yeah anyway all right next question what am i what how many questions are we we're on five we're on five i think maybe i got maybe two for four right now does that sound about right

yeah loose math there i think that's right okay true or false we dream only in rem sleep

i'm gonna say hmm i'm i'm gonna say hmm well that's not one of the answers it's true false or I feel like I want to say yes, because that's something I've always heard. But now I feel like that's one of those things that like, well, that's what they say when you're growing up, because you can't handle the truth.

Yeah, they keep a lot of dangerous facts from children, like that you don't only dream in REM sleep.

I'm going to go with what my gut says, which is yes, you dream in REM sleep only.

False.

False.

I got this one wrong, too. I thought REM sleep was like the definition of dream sleep. There are two main types of sleep. One is rapid eye movement or REM sleep, often called dream sleep. When your breathing, heart rate, and brain activity increase, the other is non-REM sleep. During REM sleep, and this is a fact that I've always loved, your muscles in your arms and legs become temporarily paralyzed so that you don't act out your dreams. Oh, yeah, I've heard of this. But people dream in all sleep stages. um and that's probably why i don't know if that's accounts for sleepwalking and sleep talking but like if you are not if that paralytic uh you know reaction or response in your body isn't happening and your brain is experiencing some some dream it makes sense that you might act on it you know

have you ever had a dream uh or i'm sorry a sleepwalking situation sure i used to sleepwalk

not routinely but several times in high school

I slept well. A couple of, so not as a very young person. As a teenager. It just popped up as a teenager

and then it went away. My mom would several times found me taking a shower in the middle of the night because I just thought I was getting ready for school.

You don't even take enough showers when you're awake, frankly. Well, that's your... Maybe that was your body correcting.

That's your opinion. Well, maybe it was your subnotiousest opinion as well. Can I be honest with you? I am, I would love you no matter what. You're very lovable. But I am really glad that you're not a sleepwalker. I think it would be really.

It's upsetting.

I could be wrong, but it seems like something that would be very upsetting for the people in your life.

Yes, I'm sure it would be.

Yeah, I've never dealt with it, though.

Well, I haven't done it in years. I mean, in decades.

Okay, let's keep it that way.

All right, here's a spicy one.

You should be dealing with my sleepwalking. If somebody's going to sleepwalk.

It wouldn't honestly shock me for you to be a sleepwalker.

And why is that? Because I'm cool in other ways, too?

Yeah, I mean, I just feel like you're a fairly anxious person. You've got, you know, some sort of some compulsive tendencies that for whatever reason to me seem like they might manifest as sleepwalking.

I was doing something yesterday that I was so, so glad. I was trying to get this done before you got home. I told you about part of it. So let me explain. No. Let me summarize. I, you know, I volunteer on Sundays. We give out food to people who want and need food. And one of the things that I do because I am because I mean, I just sort of took on this role because I do tend to be super organized or, as you might say, you know, undiagnosed OCD. I like tend to maintain the supply of like various I don't know supplies we need, like little packets of mayonnaise or mustard or whatever and a whole bunch of other things, too. But I mentioned those because, you know, every couple of months or whatever, I go to the restaurant supply store and I buy a box of little packets of mustard, just like you would see in a little, you know, fast food joint or something. and i don't know where the original sin happened on this but i was dealing with like a supply of these mustard packets that at some point in one bag of them i started i kept on i kept on pulling them out and putting them in their proper container but they were like i could tell something went wrong like a mustard pack exploded at some point but it wasn't like they weren't all covered in mustard they were all just a little bit slick and wet and reeking of vinegar right that that when it's like that mustard vinegar smell yeah and you know we put we serve these things people grab them I didn't want people to be like grabbing these you know slippery wet packets of mustard sure I couldn't figure out which one exploded or which one had a tiny leak or what it was but I couldn't take it anymore and so yesterday while you were still home I had to give you a heads up on this one I took the biggest bowl that we have in our kitchen which is this huge Tupperware bowl I filled it I filled it with the mustard packets and then I filled it with cold water and I and I kind of sloshed them around yeah mustard car wash mustard car wash exactly show title and then nothing's beating good girls and bad boys and then to drive them before i left i uh put them in the colander i'm like veves you're gonna find a colander full of mustard packets i'll explain later i'm explaining now um that's why i had to wash the but then i came home from my little mission an hour or two later and in the colander they weren't drying quite right and i needed to get them back i need to get them off the counter i needed to get them in a bag somewhere so you hung them one by one up on the clothesline I see you're gonna make me sound more stable because no I didn't do that but I did dry them I hand dried one by one these mustard packets like take a few of them out of the colander put

them in the towel in my hand dry them off put them in a bowl like like I was thinking I was

doing it like two by two sort of really sad that you didn't have you ever seen a movie where like some there's some reason why like a bunch of cash that gets stolen or whatever gets somehow it needs to be washed like literally literally like it gets covered in blood or something and i feel like i've seen like this is a trope in certain kinds of like heisty or or crime you know drug dealer movies or whatever where somebody has to wash a bunch of money and then they have to string up strings all through the a room and it's and then you know it's hundred dollar bills just like hanging from clotheslines throughout a room like can you picture it what if you had come home and

And there's mustard packets hanging all over the kitchen. I love that. It'd be amazing. You'd mentioned, you know, me sleepwalking. The reason I thought of that was because I was like, what would, what obsessive task would you find me doing? It would be in the kitchen, right? Yeah. Like I'd be doing, would I be like cutting vegetables or like, yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of maybe like remaking the coffee or something.

Well, I assume there would be, you'd be making ice tray upon ice tray.

Ice trays, yeah.

Yes, that's a big part of what I do in my waking life. Okay, I don't know if we're going to get through all of these, but what else do you have in the quiz there?

What percentage of our dreams are erotic?

Ooh, spicy. In my own experience, before you give me the options, 94%?

That seems high.

All right, what are the options?

Less than 10%, 35%, or roughly half?

35%?

Less than 10.

Less than 10%.

Only 8% of dreams. Ironically. Yeah, only 8% of dreams involve sex acts in a 2007 study. And it's pretty normal.

I just didn't want people to think I was a prude, so I went for the higher number.

Yeah, okay. It's pretty normal if your partner isn't the person of your literal dreams. Less than 30% of those sex dreams recorded featured a spouse or partner. So people be cheating.

So out of 8% of our dreams might be erotic, and then 30% of those are going to be with the person you're with?

Or less, 30% or less.

How do you feel about that? Does that track? Do you not want to talk about this?

No, I don't mind.

I think that tracks for me, probably.

Both of those numbers feel about right to me.

Mm-hmm, because it's either it's going to be maybe you or Goofy from the Disney universe. Well, anyway, we don't have to get into this.

True or false, anything can happen during a dream.

That's a weird way of phrasing that. I agree, this is a weird question. Anything could happen during a dream.

And I just want to say, can I flip this around? Sure, yeah, yeah. This is hilarious. I don't know what they're going for here.

Oh, are these all illustrations?

They've all got a little illustration. And for some reason, it's got the what appears to be the Marcellus Wallace Pulp Fiction briefcase. Oh, it's animated.

Yeah, it's like a little briefcase opening. You just see a golden orb inside of it. Like it could be anything. I mean, I feel like in a dream, anything could happen. You could fly. You could live underground. I don't know. Is that the opposite of flying? I don't know. What couldn't happen in a dream?

What couldn't happen in a dream? So is that your answer? All right. True.

I'll say true. Anything can happen in a dream.

I said the same thing, and I think this question is so dumb. The answer is false, which is like, that's so subjective.

I don't like that. I already don't like this.

Here's their description. Although we dream about things that are impossible in real life, like walking through walls or improbable, like being hit by a tsunami. Okay. Interesting choices.

Yeah. What is this person going through?

Research suggests that dream logic is still a kind of logic. One study found that when items and characters transformed into something else in dreams, they usually stayed in the same class. So objects remain objects. Characters remain characters. A car might turn into a bike and one person might morph into another. But objects almost never turn into people. So.

So wait, they found one thing that can't happen in dreams, which is objects can't turn into people.

And it didn't even say never turn into people. just like i feel like all i would have all for anything i feel like if you just think hard enough about something or you you know if anything like rises if i watch two seasons of a tv show where

things turn into people i'll bet you i'm dreaming about things turning might you dream about things

turning into people so i just think like this is such a subjective weird question and like the

answer is is dumb can a robot turn into a boom box and can that robot also have smaller friend robots that turn into cassette tapes that can go into that boombox's cassette deck.

I feel like if someone could dream about that, yes.

That's something that I learned watching the Transformers and playing with them.

This is a good one. All right. Men are more likely than women to dream about which two elements? So these are things that men are more likely to dream about.

Okay. This is going to be packs of two.

You've got four answers. Two of them are correct.

Oh, I see. Okay.

Insects, disasters such as flood or earthquakes, physical aggression, and getting lost. So you can pick two. Insects, disasters, physical aggression, getting lost.

Gender is a construct. Is that an option?

And gender is a construct.

I'm going to go with aggression and getting lost. Did I get any of them right?

You got the exact two wrong.

Oh, no.

So the wrongest you could be insects and disasters. In a study of nearly 10,000 dream reports, the study uncovered a few differences between men and women. While men were more tormented by bugs and disasters, women were more likely to dream about arguments. And I have had a lot of dreams about arguments. You're very argumentative. I mean, you are.

Let me see here.

disasters i cannot think of a disaster dream i've had disasters dreams like because i think of disasters being on a pretty um grand scale right not like a personal disaster i've had um car wreck

dreams i've had i think i've had flood dreams dreams of like tsunami or flood yeah no i don't

think i've had that aggression i guess it depends how you um about insects insects i i can't think of ever having a dream involving insects uh my living nightmare where a spider once crawled into my body and laid a bunch of eggs as long-time listeners of this show and anybody who knows me knows um and yeah so insects definitely know disasters definitely know getting lost i i feel like that's probably something because again in my dreams i'm always like trying to get from point a to point b or traveling in some way so getting lost is part of that for me like it's getting lost or like be mine are more like being late late for i'm getting to the airport missing a flight losing a passport that type of thing yeah all right here's a true or false one true or false

you can dream that you have woken up you can dream that you have woken up yes you can dream that you have woken up yes that is true yes i've had that dream i know it's possible i know if they

if they said no to that i'd be like get in my head yeah absolutely okay people can experience

It's so-called false awakenings where a sleeper fully believes that they have woken up.

And tell the dreams. Have you ever had that?

And telling the dream in the dream.

I've had dreams where I'm already telling you the dream that I just had because I'm like, this one's a doozy.

Yes. Dreams within dreams are realistic scenarios. Typically, these dreams within dreams are realistic scenarios like having breakfast in the morning, taking a shower, telling your dream. Yep.

I should get two points for that one.

Yeah. All right. A common motif in dreams is having your teeth fall out. What does it mean?

Okay, there's probably multiple choice here. First of all, I've never had this dream, by the way. Oh, really? This is a very, very classic dream that you hear about. I've never had it. And I have been told that it's about a lack of control. But let's hear what the options are and how they word that.

All right. They give you these options. You're sexually frustrated. You're changing careers. you've had a recent failure or none of the above none of the above that's correct none of the above is correct and they're really they're none of the above is like what a weird none of the above i know they're basically they're none of the above is like dreams don't mean anything people have been dreaming about losing their teeth for a long time but while many theories have been floated no one knows the exact meaning for any given person that rule holds true across the board no image or scenario in a dream has a specific symbolic meaning that is universally

true. Okay, but I mean I do buy that though and I understand why they went with none of the above on that because they're like, there isn't a specific good answer. Yeah.

Okay. How often does the average person dream?

How often does the average person dream? Is this going to be like X number of

times a week? Yeah. You want me to give you the choices? Yeah. A few times a month. A few times a week. Or every night.

Mm-hmm. Now, you pointed out something earlier in this conversation, Genevieve, where you said there's a difference between dreaming and remembering your dreams. That's right. And this is where electrodes come in. Yes. Because you could wake up. As we know, it's all about electrodes. In a sleep lab and say, I didn't have any dreams. And there's somebody there wearing a white coat and holding a clipboard and they're tapping it and they're like, mm-mm-mm. So I'm going to say you dream all the dang time. Every night? Every damn night.

Even if you don't remember it, most of us dream every night. Research suggests that sensory...

Going off Salamanca here.

Research suggests that sensory stimulation like sounds and moving around after you wake up can cause you to forget your dreams. So if you want to try to remember your dreams when you wake up, stay still and keep your eyes closed. Really? Yeah, that's a handy little piece of advice.

Stay still and keep your eyes closed after you wake up and just sort of like maintain that. Just maintain. Oh, I will actually, maybe that'll be a takeaway for me. Yeah.

All right, last question. True or false? It's possible to be aware that you're dreaming and even influence your dreams.

I don't like that we're ending on a true or false. I thought we'd end on something. Did the woman who makes Wordles or Connections, the Connections puzzle, write this piece? I don't know. Can we talk about Connections for a second? I just need to get this off my chest. I don't play Connections anymore. I boycott it because of things exactly like this. But I saw some people groaning about a Connections last week. This is the New York Times puzzle.

To be clear, I got that one 100%.

I got it right, too. So I dipped into the world of Connections because when people are complaining about it, I'm like, I want to know what people are complaining about because I think this game is BS. I always say the people, but I guess it's a person who makes them. I think that she's out of her goddamn mind sometimes. And the other day, the answer was... things that you bring to a bratwurst no no things that go with bratwurst accoutrement or like um things that accompany a bratwurst it was like blank goes with bratwurst or something and one of the answers was brat yeah that one was out of control brats do not go i mean listen you're talking to me if anybody has had sausage as a side dish to sausage it's me yeah but that is not an appropriate answer for goes with and it wouldn't have been that hard yeah to like it could have components of a bratwurst yes exactly but it was so clear that she wanted to get like brat in there because you know it's one of those words that and then there were a couple of other it was like coconut and tree and she was trying to get in like the buzzy words of the summer well and it was just like that's fine but give us a better that that that game is not a game the

problem with that was not the the thing sometimes i don't like the things like the worst one i think was um objects that you find in a still life painting which is just like right it was so random um and and not a not a good bucket for things no it was not but i don't mind when it's like this is what goes into a uh these are the ingredients in a blank you know but the way it was phrased as a category was so off it was just that was the problem to me like you change the name of the category and it's fine like the the nut that yeah the objects themselves were not the

problem what was the one about hoagie rolls that got me so mad i'm trying oh yeah you didn't you said a year a a hero isn't a type of oh that's right deli bread options were i'm looking this up i wrote a newsletter article about this i wrote a whole tbtl newsletter about it called bread wrong bun roll hero and wrap were grouped together as deli bread sandwiches and i will i will i will die on this carb-loaded hill, a hero is not a bread option. It's not a type of bread. Yeah. I would say a hoagie. Okay. So it is possible or it is not possible to dream. Oh, I haven't answered this yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be aware that you're dreaming. This is our last one, too, which is kind of a bummer. I've really enjoyed this. I wonder if anybody's listening anymore. I'm going to say it is possible or not possible to do what?

be aware that you're dreaming and yes of course it is yeah you've influenced i know this from

you trained yourself well just this i did a little bit of experiencing i did a little bit

of experimenting with trying to be do lucid dreaming and i had a few but it takes a lot of work honestly like you have to really be very mindful during the day to set your stimuli to like have like this it's like a conditioning thing that you do and you can condition yourself to do it.

We did it for like a month, right? A little action. Yeah. So you kept the dream journal. Ironically, you're the one who kept the dream journal, not me.

Yeah, it's just quite time consuming.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's very fun when you are... I have friends who routinely lucid dream.

Really? Yeah. Controlling their own actions and their dreams. So obviously I'm going to say true and I'm going to give myself a bell.

Some people experience lucid dreaming in which they know that they're currently dreaming. They may be able to direct the actions of their dream and even communicate with the waking world. That's kind of interesting.

That is interesting. All right. Well, congratulations to us. I think we nailed that quiz.

Yes, I think I got six out of six. I don't remember how many you got, but probably about that. Oh, let's hear. I'll be able to tell you.

Oh, yeah? How did I do?

You got six out of 12.

I got six. Oh, okay. I said six out of six. I meant six out of 12. All right. That was for messing that up. All right. Well, that was a lot of fun, Genevieve. I'm looking down. An hour has gone by already. That went by very, very quickly, at least for me, probably. Probably not for the listeners. all right vives before we get out of here thank you again for doing this my pleasure by the way it's a lot of fun can you do it all week uh i cannot help out all week but you've got

you don't want me all week you've got way better guests coming than me i have so many fun people

lined up for later this week my friend nick jarren our friend our dear friend friend of the show Nick Jarin will be joining me tomorrow. People might remember Nick as being the producer of the night show that I hosted. What was it? Over 10 years ago now on Kinell Radio. Yeah, over 10 years. That's what forged our friendship. But he's Radio Gold. But let's thank some folks for making today's show possible. We got Josh last. I'm going to need your help with one of these, I think, Genevieve. We're going international. Okay. We're not starting international, but we're going international. But right here in the good old United States of America in West Caldwell, New Jersey, we have Josh Laster supporting the show. Thank you, Josh. How close is New Jersey to Philadelphia? Pretty close. So Josh will be at the Philly show, right? He better be. What is it, September 28th? Or he's dead meat. I should really have that down. I haven't said it in a while, but I'm pretty sure.

September 28th it's September 28th and also Luke's got this rule I don't agree with it but Luke's got this rule he says please do not refer to the people who support the show as dead meat well he's

not here to stop me no he's not

alright we also want to thank Molly Huff who's in Wheaton or Wheaton Illinois Molly Price who's in Seattle Washington now I want to make something very clear here it's a battle of the Mollies it's a battle of the Mollies one of these now this is a chance for me to turn the tables on you Genevieve, look how the vim has turned One of these Molly's Molly Huff or Molly Price One of them spells their name with a Y One of them spells their name with an I-E Can you identify which one is which?

Molly Huff is with an I-E And the other one is Molly with a Y

You are It was a 50-50 shot Yeah, you're wrong about that

I thought if I said it with enough confidence

Yeah, nope We have Sarah Samble of tacoma washington i love tacoma tacoma feels like a real sliding door situation to me i sort of feel like we could have found ourselves in tacoma things had broken slightly differently like i love seattle but tacoma well isn't i mean tacoma's whole story is a sliding door story

right because they were almost going to be it was like flip a coin and they'll be the capital right

yep yep and uh i think it had to do with they have to do with the airport it had something to do with mass transportation might have had to do with a rail line i believe i feel like that's something that ended up kind of turning the tide towards seattle as far as like the the bigger city and and all of that um we got support from margaret k this is where we get international uh margaret is from midlothian edinburgh oh scotland now i've been to edinburgh am i right like you you just add the uh right it's not there when you spell it out there's no uh it looks like

edinburgh but you say edinburgh um is it edinburgh yeah so but you just pronounce it uh like edinburgh edinburgh i just want to make sure i was getting that right these aren't two different places no

they're you're right it's just a pronunciation thing and finally thank you oh by the way thank you margaret appreciate you and uh megan moore uh lake forest park washington lake forest park i always say this and i never know if i get it right is that where i bought my camera in a parking lot in a big mall, Lake Forest Park, a little bit north of here, maybe? You and I are so bad with the surrounding areas.

Well, I am, but in my defense on this one, I wasn't with you, and I don't remember.

That is true. You had absolutely nothing to do with that deal whatsoever. So sorry to put you on the spot there. But let's see here. Josh, Molly, Molly, Sarah, Margaret, and Megan, thank you all so much for supporting TBTL and for putting up with, of course, all of my dream talk today. Genevieve, thank you for indulging me.

Well, I actually do find dreams as a concept very interesting. I think most people do, even if they don't want to. I mean, I understand it's boring to hear about other people's dreams, but like why we dream like it's so it feels like such a fancy flourish that it's like hard to know why we evolved it, you know?

Yes. And I want to just before we get out of here, we thank all the donors. I would like to just congratulate myself for my restraint. I think I really did, when I described my dream from last night, I think I kept that to, like, I don't know what, 15 seconds or something like that. Yeah, probably. That's pretty good. Probably about that. I'm stalling here because I'm looking for a drop I wanted to play, but I can't find it on the fly, so we'll just end the show there today. Do please tune in all week. We'll have Nick Jarin joining us tomorrow. You might end up seeing a Phyllis P. Fletch Fletcher in the mix coming up this week, too, along with some other great guests. Thank you, Genevieve. Thank you, everybody. We will talk to you tomorrow. And in the meantime, please remember no mountain too tall. And good luck to all.

So it was like my grandma's house, but at the same time, it was not totally my grandma's house. We will not listen to your dreams. We are not saints. Power out.