Muse

You know you rock when you roll with the Seahawks Marshawn Lynch, Beast Moe with his dreadlocks Rolls and passes the ball to the endzone touchdown you know we're gonna get the crown in super bowl 24 team we get the ring the bling listen to the crowd sing seahawks seahawks seahawks we block that offense to say we'll lose is such an offense and nonsense we got the best defense being the other quarterback comes with the expense of the act of being sacked to hope the broncos have enough time to react to the level of game the hawks are bringing that evening a super bowl sunny because they're gonna go all the way for the win starting when the game begins all the way to the end of the game and to go down in fame as the Super Bowl champions of this year. This team should be feared.

You better saddle up when you roll with Seattle. Broncos seem like some old cattle left in the field after a cutthroat battle. To the Hawks, they just can't compete. Just run away and beat or retreat. Even if we lose.

I don't usually let Lil' Hoogie go this long, but he's really enjoying some of the kind of middle part of his rhymes. He's spitting on this particular track. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the No Point Conversion. I'm Luke Burbank, right over there, Andrew Walsh. We are going to talk about the Seahawks and the Browns. The Seahawks game was very long ago. Are we closer to it now as we record this than, like, it's almost back to being Thursday. I don't know. It feels like a week ago that they were losing that game in a pretty frustrating fashion.

Can you hear that, by the way? Yeah, I did hear that. It has been quiet for the past, like, ten minutes, and the second the music goes away, and you can hear it. It's like that angry scream. I don't know. I think I might have to. Should I just go take care of this right now? Because I don't know.

I mean, maybe he just wants to hear more of Lil Hoagy and K-Dude. Maybe the problem is we've been stepping on, you know, the song. Like, I'm not letting it air out enough. That's what he's saying. He's yowling for the listeners. My apologies.

I guess I just was going to be optimistic. He was yelling before, but I calmed him down, and I thought, okay, we can do this. I don't want to lock him in a room if I don't have to, but he's not proving himself to be responsible enough to be around open microphones right now. By the way, one quick thing about that song while we were talking about it. I know we don't have tons of time to dink around today, but I think will next year be the 10-year anniversary of that song for us? Oh, my God. No, no, no. This was a Super Bowl, so this would have been 2013, right? But, I mean, it's approaching.

Yeah. You know, like it's there will be probably, you know, Lord willing and APM doesn't get wise to what we do on this show. We may still be doing this by the time it's the 10 year anniversary of that song, which would just be yet another milestone.

Those kids are in their 20s now, right? They've got to be.

Yeah. I mean, late, late teens. Yeah. Well, I mean, I much like the situation with Gino Smith. Let's just hope for the best here. Andrew, let's just see how Theo does. I've got him on my lap now. I'll just keep him on my lap the whole time. Theo obviously has been studying the offense. He's been holding a clipboard for years, and now the question is, can he deliver in the crunch? He's clipboard Theo, as we famously call him. Show title for today's episode. Yes, I need a show title. Good, good. Clipboard Theo. So the Seahawks game, Seahawks played the Rams. It was one of those games where the Seahawks were not playing particularly great, but they were still somehow in the game, which was giving me pretty positive vibrations because I was sort of waiting for that moment where Russell Wilson does something spectacular. And we managed to keep the game close, which I took as just itself a moral victory because I think Los Angeles is a superior team to us in terms of personnel.

Yeah. You and I were watching it together, and I think we're on the same page that we— and again, it's been a long time, and I don't have the best football memory, but I just remember feeling like things were clipping along much better on the offense than they had been. It didn't feel it didn't feel disjointed and it definitely felt like the type of game where, you know, it wasn't until like things really progressed and things got weird in the second half that I really started to think, oh, I guess we might not lose this. I mean, it's funny. Two weeks ago, might not win it or might not lose it. It might not win it. Thanks for might not not lose it. It might not not like to get wet, though. Yeah, no, no, that's a good correction. In other words, I just had that old that without overthinking it, that old timey sort of Seahawks optimism, which I didn't have two weeks before looking ahead to this game. You know, we were looking at these two interconference or interdivisional games on the on the schedule and seeing how the Seahawks had started their season. It looked like a couple of really big red flags.

But then, you know, coming into this one and seeing the style of play early on, like, it just seemed like, oh, yeah, you know what? Seahawks can take care of this.

Yeah, it would had it had a quality to it as a Seahawk fan where it just felt like, oh, this is actually we might be able to do this. Like the fact that the Rams didn't just sort of like pull away early, fact that we kept it pretty close was encouraging. And, I mean, when Russell Wilson got hurt, that was obviously pretty dispiriting, although he's just so durable that I kind of figured out, you know what, they'll rub some dirt on it, he'll go back out there. He did go back out for one offensive series where he wasn't able to throw it very well, and so then it was Geno Smith time. You said you actually read something from Danny O'Neal today, kind of an update on the finger injury, because the initial news was, you know, or shortly thereafter, like, you know, once the game was over and it was like the next morning, it was like he might be out six to eight weeks, which just felt like, OK, well, that means that puts a real challenge on us for the rest of the season if we're going to try to be competitive. Then I read the other day that maybe he could miss as few as three games because we have a bye. And if it heals fast, what are you hearing?

I didn't hear any updates on the number. It was still like in that five to seven range or something along those lines. Danny I'll actually just give a plug for people who are interested in this stuff like Danny O'Neill formerly of 710 ESPN and a good friend of yours going back to college Luke and a great sports writer and commentator has a newsletter now if you just look for the Danny O'Neill newsletter I don't know what it's called but you'll be able to find it and sign up it's one of my favorite reads he sends out several emails a week on various Seattle sports related stuff and he just went kind of deep on mallet finger and what it means he started with the question is it called mallet finger because often people get this injury when banging themselves with a mallet or is it because your finger ends up looking like the mallet and it looks like it's the latter in that case and the reason the finger is bent like that apparently it's still not entirely clear to us on the outside what's going on whether it's completely a soft tissue injury or if it might be the kind of soft tissue injury that pulls bone with it that's what actually happened on my less injured finger of the spring luke remember i'd broken badly my one finger ball peen hammer fingers yes exactly um but uh but anyway the reason it's called mallet is because if you look at his middle finger that last joint or that tip of his finger the joint that's at the tip of his finger it's just like his finger is like at a 90 degree angle at that joint there and the soft tissue the tendon that pulls your finger taut uh there's something there's some sort of rupture there and that's why his finger is bent like that not because it's being forced down, but the tendon that should be able to pull that back straight is not working correctly because of the injury. And that's kind of honestly, no joke, some stuff that I've been learning about my own hands as I've been going to physical therapy for the past like six months now.

Well, I have to tell you, I am, believe it or not, on this Monday, I am not completely and totally hopeless about the Seattle Seahawks season. for a couple of reasons. One is, okay, one of a couple of things will happen. Either somehow Geno Smith will kind of overperform. I don't think Geno Smith is a bad quarterback. In fact, he led the Seahawks in a pretty nice drive. Yeah, I think he did great out there. I think he got really unlucky that Tyler Lockett tried to sell that fake as hard as he did. I mean, not a fake, but he got jostled, and he tried to really sell it to draw the flag, And in the selling of it and the falling down, he just completely vacated the space, which then involved throwing an interception for Geno Smith. But Geno's throwing the ball to where Tyler Lockett's supposed to be. So that wasn't like an egregious error on Geno Smith. That was just bad timing, in my opinion. But like – Yeah, because if – can I just jump in there?

Because it sort of sounds like if Lockett doesn't do the – I don't know. Flop is maybe too strong of a word there. But if he doesn't like kind of like really oversell it like you're saying and he stays on his feet, he might not catch that ball. But he can break up the pass

Right, exactly Some of those interceptions that look really silly Are the result of the receiver just not being where they should be Based on the play's design Because like you said, even if they can't catch it It's not just a clean pick for the other team They knock it down There's a collision It's just not going to be the world's easiest interception Which effectively happened there So one thing that could happen is But Geno Smith could actually play pretty well, and we could maybe sneak. We're playing the next three teams we play. If we had Russell and Russell were healthy, let me put it this way. If we had beaten the Rams and Russell was healthy, I'd be talking. I'd be, as we say in poker, I'd have chirping chips. I'd be talking like I just want a big pot, man. I'd be talking about how we.

We could definitely win the next three games, and we could be in the driver's seat or whatever. It's obviously less certain now, but one outcome could be Geno Smith actually plays pretty well. Some of the other Seahawks really step up, knowing that they don't have Russell Wilson to fall back on, and we actually maybe win two out of the next three games. Russell Wilson comes back. His finger is all better, and we kind of put together a late-season charge. That's one thing that can happen. That would be exciting. I feel hopeful that that's something that's actually possible. Now that Russell's not out for like seven games or something, also a thing that could happen would be we lose every one of them because what happened? Our once-in-a-generation superstar quarterback got hurt, and when that happens, it really screws your team up. And here's the crazy thing, Andrew. I'm not even going to be that mad about that. There is this emotional attachment I have to this team each year, and that emotional attachment is around this idea that they are going to be an elite team in the NFL. They are going to win every game. They are going to win the Super Bowl, and anything short of that leaves me emotionally bereft. But there's a different kind of expectation, which is like, I don't know. Let's say how they do this week. They probably won't win. They don't have Russell Wilson, their best player. So, I don't know. Let's just see how it goes. That is almost emotionally so freeing to me that, like, to go through a season with this team where it's just kind of like, yeah, you turn it on every Sunday or Monday or whenever they're playing. You know, you hope they do well, but you kind of know that the deck is stacked against them anyway. And so you just watch from that perspective. I feel weirdly OK about that, too.

I'm actually glad to hear you say that because I've been having some thoughts that made me feel bad. Like maybe, you know, maybe my Seahawks fandom isn't strong enough as my Cleveland Browns kind of develop into a competent team themselves. Because, you know, well, I'll tell you what. Well, I mean, you and I were, I think we talked about this on TBTL. We watched that game together and then had a bit of a night after that, too. It was the type of night where, let's see, that was Thursday night, and I woke up on the couch on Friday morning. And it kind of hit me. It was one of those things you kind of wake up, almost like a cartoon character waking up, like, just kind of like, huh. And then all of a sudden you remember, oh, God, the game. Oh, God, Russell's finger. Like, I almost didn't remember it for the first, like, 60 seconds I was awake, and then it slams you in the face. But so, I mean, it definitely hurts. But then as I just think about it more over the weekend, I start thinking, like, it's kind of interesting. And again, I hate to say that that's where I felt bad, like, well, I want them to win. I root for them. But it is – I've never – no, I shouldn't say that. I've seen two quarterbacks before Russell Wilson, but it's been a really long time. I think I saw Matt Hasselbeck's last year and then Tavares. Do you remember Tavares played a whole season? Sure, Tavares Jackson. I think it went from Tavares to Russell. But anyway, it's just been such a long time since I've seen any other quarterback back there that I'm kind of like, well, it'll be kind of interesting to see how it develops, especially given that Geno didn't look like a bozo out there. I mean, I think you and I were talking, and I might be stealing your words here a little bit, but it seemed like with the play calling there, clearly they didn't trust Geno's arm in the same way they trust Wilson's arm to go, like, really deep down the field. But they were drawing up things for him that basically work. And the offense still was clicking along again. And then you start thinking in different terms, like this is a elite quarterback and elite team that should take us to the Super Bowl again. And then you're like, OK, well, maybe that can't just be the expectation. But let's see what's going on here. And it sort of does make the game interesting in a different way. And I am definitely intrigued to see what happens, especially next week, because, of course, I root against the Steelers. So it helps the Browns in their division. But, like, I'll take a Geno Smith versus Ben Roethlisberger next week and see what happens.

The thing that continues to flummox me is the defense. Because, really, I mean, that obviously is a critical failure by the offense to throw that interception at the end of the game. It's two minutes and, like, 11 seconds left. You've got the ball, and you're down six, I think. You could drive the field and win the game, which would have been pretty incredible. against a team that has been touted as possibly the best team in the NFL. I mean, people were saying that after the last Rams victory because it just looked so good. So obviously that's a breakdown by the offense. But the defense, there was the touchdown that the Rams, like basically the Seahawks had this momentum, and then they just, on offense, Geno Smith had let us down the field. We got a touchdown. Everything was sort of like, wow, this might happen. And then our defense turns right around and gives up another long drive to the Rams. The Seahawks are on pace to have the seventh-worst passing defense in the history of the NFL. If they continue at this rate, I think they're giving up 300-and-something yards a game in the air, which, as of right now, if they keep it up, means they would be literally the seventh-worst pass defense in the history of this league. So that's not great.

How much of that, too? I wonder this early in the season.

I wonder if a big part of that would have been that probably that was the 49ers game, right? That total blown coverage. What was it?

No, that was – well, the game that really killed us was the Minnesota game.

Oh, was it? See, I didn't watch the Minnesota game. I'm just remembering one play against the 49ers where that one guy was totally out in space by himself because of miscommunication between Jamal and somebody else, and that was a huge one. Okay, yeah, the Minnesota is where they really racked up.

Kirk Cousins put a couple death rocks back in his weird tube. He literally gained years on his life from how easy it was to dismantle the Seahawks secondary. And, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that you cannot— I mean, this is what I was screaming as we were watching the game on Thursday night, is you cannot put Jamal Adams in coverage. You just can't. You've got to—I don't know how they're not figuring this out, but you just can't. You have to just blitz him or, like, I don't know, run him like a linebacker. I don't know enough about NFL defenses. But what I know is Jamal Adams one-on-one trying to cover someone is a hot mess. So they've got to come up with a different strategy. I mean, the problem with not ever putting him in coverage is then that the offense knows he's blitzing anytime he's in the game, which slightly undermines the element of surprise. But it's like you just can't. I mean, there were just like two or three just absolute critical plays that game where Jamal Adams was just in coverage and was just like very, very overmatched. at the so i mean again he's had flashes and i mean his first season he certainly made some sacks that really made it seem like they had made a really good a really good decision but um to sign him and pay him all that money but they got to figure out how to utilize him because right now it's not working yeah so i don't know i'm trying to think what i mean there was obviously so much

to come out of that game we're seeing we're going to see a different quarterback other than russell i don't know that i have much more to say on that other than i guess just as on a personal note and I've said this to you several times now, but, like, I am just so bad at knowing things. Like, when I was – I mean, I'm talking about Russell's finger. Like, I just – I was – you tell that story. In fact, I just prompted you to retell the story to somebody who hadn't heard it on Thursday of when the Seahawks lost the Super Bowl and there was somebody at the party you were at. And they're like, why is everybody so sad, like, not reading the room? I feel like I was a little bit like that on Thursday, not asking why everybody's so sad. But I was like, boy, yeah, that's rough. You know, I hope hope Russell can get that finger taped up by next week. And you're like, this is like a three game. He's going to be out for at least three games. You were saying immediately having no information. I'm like, what? I thought they just popped it out of place. They're just going to pop it back into place. Right. I mean, they did that to Baker's shoulder last week, his non-throwing shoulder. And you're like, no, no, he's going to be out. And I was like, oh, man, I was surprised. I literally, when I saw him, and I know it looked graphic and gross seeing his finger on TV, but again, like, when I broke my fingers and them saying, well, maybe it's not a break, it looks bad, we can maybe just pop it back in, that was before x-rays, of course, I started to think, like, well, I'm a big wuss, but Russell Wilson, you just pop things back into place for him, so I was more surprised. You got a lethal weapon on it. Yeah, I thought that he was just going to miss a series, and it turns out, it's like, it could be up to seven weeks.

I just I could not have been more wrong about that call. Well, I mean, who knows what these things and and and and for it did just look like it was out of joint. It looked different than injuries I've seen like that because of the crazy angle that it was at. But like, I mean, it's just it's amazing what an enemy of the offense, the defensive lineman's helmet is, because I have seen that injury. Maybe not technically mallet finger, but I have seen more quarterbacks hurt their throwing hand on the helmet of an onrushing defender. I mean, that seems like literally one of the main ways quarterbacks get hurt. I think it's kind of a miracle. It hasn't happened to Russ yet. It's happened to quarterbacks we were opposing, and we have been the, I guess you could say, the recipients of some good luck that their hand. I forget who off the top of my head, but there's somebody that was really, really was really giving us trouble. It might have even been Jared Goff a few years ago who did that same thing, throwing, follow through, hit their hand on the helmet of a receiver, excuse me, a defender, and, like, jacked their finger up. So apparently Pete Carroll said Russell's a good healer. I think you were the one that told me that, Andrew.

I don't know if I'm the one who told you, but I saw that as well.

There's that as well. You know, I just feel like it's almost like being a fan. We need to talk about the Browns, too, obviously. But being a fan of a team, if you take it as seriously as I do, which is too serious, why too serious? It's almost like you're in the season with the team. You're not out there playing. You're not going to get hurt. But it's like you're weak and your happiness during a given week is so kind of affected by if the team is doing well. I mean, I felt emotionally empty to a certain point.

certain degree this weekend because it was like the Seahawks had already played on Thursday they'd already lost Russell was already out so not only did they just like lose a tough game they lost the game they had this injury and then I had to go from Thursday until another Sunday to even have any of my football ya-ya's you know and it's like so that's it's like it's a lot to be a fan of a team when you let it get to you as much as I let it get to me sometimes so to just have that feeling of like okay this is going to be a different kind of season did i think we were going to win the super bowl at the beginning of this year no probably not there's some very good teams in the nfl uh but did i have a lot tied up in every single week them just maximizing yes and now i don't have that and it's weird like i said it's a weirdly a relief i'm going to extend this a

little bit more because again like maybe it's just easier to talk about this yesterday's browns loss was really painful but um the i don't this is comments that are flying around in the heat of the moment i'm talking about in our actual text thread but also just on social media too so i know there's um there's not as much you know these might not be rational takes but um it seems like a lot of frustration is around you know there seemed like almost less frustration about russell's injury and more frustration in some quarters about uh about pete carroll's coaching and i i don't have specifics on that specific calls here and there um but generally speaking it just sort of seems like you know and i know that's easy when you're losing and not doing great then it's easy just to you know point fingers but um do you think not easy to point fingers if you're russell you can point it they just don't point in the right direction um i just wonder this is a really broad question to throw on you um but i just wonder if you think that like knowing everything we know about where the seahawks are talent wise right now and this huge deal that they just signed with russell wilson and also knowing that you know like russell wilson like all of us is growing older and there's a there's an expiration date on his elitism did did Pete Carroll and the rest of like let's say the front office like miss opportunities to actually build this team better in the offseason like should we be here right now or is it when you look around the league and what we're up against it's like it is what it is you just can't always have the elite team I think

it's probably a little bit more of door number two but i do wish that they would have done something to shore up the secondary they spent a lot of money on jamal adams and they clearly thought that they could just kind of like handle the secondary kind of with just like you know um you know scotch tape and chicken wire or something it's like you have this guy ryan neal who was basically like a practice squad player last year and granted he did come up and have an amazing interception in the NFL so he's not like he's incompetent but you got him you got Trey Flowers who does not very frequently look like he should be playing defense in the NFL you've got Jamal Adams who's a fearsome rusher but very bad in coverage it's like I guess we got this guy Sidney Jones from the UW who's younger and who they have high hopes for but that's the thing like they just didn't they didn't go I mean you know what the Rams did when they wanted to fixed their pass coverage they went and got Jalen Ramsey they went out and got the guy who's the best person at that job and that guy is really good and has a lot of interceptions and you have to throw to the other side of the field like so I don't know I mean you know Pete Carroll and John Schneider have had a ton of success Seattle has been a totally competitive team for basically the last decade plus which most cities if you're not in you know if you're not in the Tom Brady era of new england although it's interesting to see that you know new england is not a sure bet these days but if you're unless you're like tom tom brady era new england or something you just don't or green bay with aaron rogers you don't get to just sort of reliably win 10 plus games every season and the seahawks have had that under p carroll and john schneider so i got to give them at least credit for that but i also think that they've gotten away with it i mean part of the problem is i've i've seen people conjecturing that you can all in the nfl you can really almost only win if you have a phenomenal breakout quarterback who's still under their rookie contract because the only way you can afford to have the other people you need on the team like and what happens the life cycle of these things is you know every once in a while you get a you know um you get a russell wilson you get a patrick mahomes you get a jared allen and then those guys mature and then you have to pay them one trillion dollars a season which leaves you no money for the other positions and that once you get to that point you're kind of you're kind of hosed so that could also be part of what Pete Schneider uh John Schneider and Pete Carroll are trying to do which is okay we have this amount of money to spend because we're sending a lot of it to Russell Wilson which is I don't think a bad call but now we have to figure out how do we do the rest of it with what's left So I didn't really answer your question. No, wait. It was a really broad question anyway. But one thing I will say, and I know it's not great for us being in the same division with them, but I think most people would agree that it's ridiculous that somebody named Jalen Ramsey would play for anybody other than the Rams. I mean, his name is Ramsey. Like, it's actually a sin.

It should have been illegal that he wasn't playing for them for his first several years.

And, you know, here's where I actually don't know enough about for as much as I talk about my intense fandom. You think I would understand the salary cap more and the implications there? Like, it does feel like other teams somehow are out just signing lots of—like, Jalen Ramsey was a huge acquisition for the Rams. I forget. I think he was in Jacksonville before that, or maybe Carolina. Jacksonville and Carolina are the same team in my mind, and you'll never convince me otherwise.

I happen to be looking at his stats here. It's Jacksonville, but I'm the same with you.

They're very far away from here. They're not usually very good, and, you know, I confuse them. But anyway, it does seem to feel like, you know, whereas in baseball, there isn't really effectively a salary cap. And so that's why every year it's the Dodgers and the Yankees and the Red Sox that are that are, you know, finishing very near the top. Football does have a salary cap. It does actually affect how teams structure their their their rosters. And so maybe the Seahawks are just kind of slyly spending money on things. I'm not figuring it out. But it just seems to feel like I hear about these other teams doing these blockbuster acquisitions. And we are just rarely, with the exception of the Jamal Adams trade, we just rarely are the team doing that. And yet it's sort of worked out for us. So, you know, who knows? Well, I guess we shall see. Like I said, Russell Wilson is a once-in-a-generation quarterback when he's clicking. But there are literally drives where I just as soon take Geno Smith. Just game managing, you know? So I guess we'll get to test that theory over the next, whatever, three to five games and see how that really plays out.

It would also be nice to get Carson back, too. I'm not trying to start a new thing.

Carson is unbreakable, what they call him, Mr. Glass. Chris Carson, I'm sorry. I love the dude. Dude is not – his body is not durable enough for an entire NFL season. And the evidence of that is that he's never played an entire NFL season. And every time his contract comes up and we are debating re-signing him, we're like, God, when he's healthy, he's so good. And he's just never healthy enough. He's always banged up. So I don't know. Yeah, because this also would be a prime time for a bunch of other Seahawks to step up, for the running game to suddenly improve, for the offensive line to realize, OK, we don't have Russell back there who's going to just somehow elude the rush. We're going to have to really like there is this effect sometimes of everybody stepping up because they feel like we just have to. That can be an interesting dynamic to watch. So I'm hoping we see that with the Seahawks. But, you know, with people like Carson Hurt, you wonder how much that can even happen.

Yeah. And how much the coaches can adjust to that and get the, you know, adjust the game plan and get the right players in the right positions to go along with that as well. So, you know, we'll see.

Let's talk about the Browns. I got on an airplane, and when I landed, I saw the final score, and I thought about my dear friend Andrew, and I just left you alone because I didn't think there was anything I could say that would be helpful. But that was a rollicking game, very high-scoring affair. Back in, what was it, four touchdowns in the fourth quarter? Six touchdowns in the fourth quarter?

I can't remember exactly. I don't remember the box score right now, but, I mean, I think the lead changed hands seven times. I want to say at least seven times. Um, cause I remember we were counting and at some point it got to seven and then after that everything is just a blur. But, um, yeah, it was, I mean, this is the thing. This is a game I went into. I was kind of joking and I was like pretending to talk Genevieve down going into this game saying, Genevieve, I just want you to know that there's a very real possibility that the Browns will lose this game. Like, um, the Browns did not play. They, they got the win last week against the Vikings, but they did not play well at all. They didn't really play well offensively the week before that either. And the Chargers are good, right? I mean, the Chargers just really proved themselves in a national game. I can't remember when it was played, but they played against the Raiders. Yeah, and gave them their first defeat, I think. Yeah, and so, you know, the Chargers are good. Everybody loves the Justin Herbert quarterback. I don't think I'd ever seen a game with him playing. Maybe I did. Either way, I had heard he was good and charming and all these things. But I was saying, like, listen, there's a very real possibility that at the end of the day, The Browns won't have won this. It doesn't mean the end of the season. I want to see them play well, blah, blah, blah. And for the most part, the Browns did play well on offense. I mean, there are some things we can break down. I think both teams needed a lot more on defense. The Browns were very hobbled, not to make tons of excuses, but they were very hobbled on the defensive side of the ball in that.

really ended up hurting us I mean that's how you end up with a score like 47 to 42 but I also don't want to you know there are some people who are saying that the Browns clearly based on some of the play calling still don't trust their quarterback to make the to make the big throws and clutch positions you saw that with some kind of interesting decision some play calling decision by Stefanski near the end of the game but the game was always close and the game was always high scoring and the team that had the ball always had a high probability of marching down the field and getting it in the end zone including my Browns like not unlike the first loss of the season the first game of the season the Browns played the Chiefs but I wasn't dismayed by their style of play especially on offense it was just like some major you know some major breakdowns on the defense and just some I mean two incredibly huge touchdown plays by the Chargers that were just clearly uh miscommunications or just blown coverage by the safeties each of our safeties had one of those um in a way that was just like completely embarrassing and you can't have that there is also i guess i'll just i guess i'll just unload my my clip here um you know we want to talk about officiating a little bit it was a terribly officiated game with one of the most i mean i know i'm a browns fan but one of the most egregious pi calls on fourth down i don't know if you were watching this at this point lou no i think i was in the plane both teams were being very aggressive on fourth down opportunities as well they should given how the other defense was playing and also just like i think that the coaches are just like starting to understand that going on fourth down is is smart in a lot of ways instead of giving the ball back um but the chargers uh on a i think with nine minutes left in the game, and the Browns with a lead. The Chargers were fourth down, four yards to go, and Herbert throws this pass. I can't remember the receiver, but it's not completed, and a PI call is called, but on the wrong team. They call it defensive pass interference, but every angle of it is offensive pass interference. It is egregious. The receiver is just pulling. They keep showing it, just like pulling the jersey of the defender so egregiously, and they just call that on the Browns, and they score a touchdown, and the lead changes again. And there was so—in a lower-scoring game, it's easier to point at one or two things like that and say that was the game. It's so hard to say—so much happened in the last nine minutes that you can't—there were still two more lead changes to happen.

You know, so you can't say, hey, the whole game hung on that. But that certainly would have ended that that touchdown run, that drive they were having there. And who knows what happens when the Browns get it back in that situation? Maybe they punted away, but maybe they don't. Maybe they marched down the field again. Again, they put up 42 points at the end of the day. So that's really, really frustrating. There's still some OBJ stuff going on. And like I said a couple of weeks ago, I was back on my like they should trade him while he's valuable to other teams because there's something there's just some sort of on field chemistry problems with him and Baker. And we saw it again. Like, you know, he's not targeted all the time, which is fine. He's out there drawing the defense, which is good. But in a very critical fourth down play, he was right in the middle of the field. Baker threw him a little pass right in his arms and just bounces off his chest or out of his hands. And we hand the ball back over to the Chargers. And that's our star, you know, that's one of our star wide receivers and, you know, one of the most famous wide receivers in the league. So that stuff is really disappointing. But I think what they need to do is they need to get healthy on defense and they need to get some secondary coverage. And, you know, at the end of the day, like, it was a good game. It just sucked, like, to have it end that way. Were they playing in Cleveland or were they playing in L.A.? They were playing in L.A., that stadium, that SoFi Stadium. I think that was the first real look I had at that. That was just amazing. But, I mean, the Chargers even, they missed an extra point so that we had, like, with only three minutes left to play, we were still up by one point because of that goof. Like, how? And then Stefanski called a run play on third and nine, and everybody's just questioning that. And we didn't get the nine yards that were needed. and, like, why don't you give it to Baker? Like, do you not trust Baker to complete a pass at third and nine when the game is on the line? And we hand the ball back to him, and they march down the field and take the lead again. And then in the very, very last drive, I thought the last team to have the ball would win it, but it turns out the Browns had the ball, but they had no timeouts with 90 seconds left, and there was some just really weird play calling. They weren't taking chunks of the field. They ran it once, and they were just like, maybe they didn't run it once, But they were just taking these small little, they used all, I think they were three and out on that.

They were three and out with 90 seconds left in the game, and they couldn't even get a first down to make an attempt at getting it into the end zone. It was, I don't know, pretty embarrassing play calling at the end and really, really frustrating for a good game against a good team, basically having it in hand several times and just finding a way to lose. It sucked.

I'm sorry.

That is frustrating. Sorry. I didn't give you a chance to converse.

Well, I didn't see too much of the game, so that's much better from your perspective than mine just because it's your team and also you saw the game i um i'll just just as we wrap things up i'll i'll do my my uh my sort of thing that i always say about the nfl and timeouts which is those things the difference between winning a game and losing a game i swear to god in the nfl comes down to timeouts more often than people think like most nfl games are close if you think about it That's why when you look at the line, we look at the odds makers, it's it's rare to be a 14 point favorite ever, even if you're like the best team in the league and you're playing the worst team in the league. It's because somehow these games just have a weird way of always being one score, maybe 10 points. And every like a team can go the length of the field in 30 seconds if they have three timeouts and they have no chance of going the length of the field. And I just don't understand why teams are so cavalier. Now, maybe the Browns had used those timeouts to get the ball with 90 seconds. I think so.

In this case, I don't think it was bad timeouts.

They just didn't have any timeouts. But the Seahawks are just the kings of that. I mean, the Seahawks had a game this season where the other team opted to go for a field goal. And we called—actually, I believe we may have called a timeout that we were going to need later before the other team's extra point, which wasn't a two-point conversion. It was just an extra point. They scored a touchdown. Then there was a timeout before the extra point And it was the Seahawks Like the call is coming from inside Pete Carroll's brain Like we are the worst I feel like we are the worst team For taking care of our timeouts In the league but then again we're the team I watch the most closely And when we lose it hurts me the most

Yeah right yeah no but it does seem like Pete Carroll like yeah I even put a joke in the Newsletter a couple weeks ago I can't remember what The topic was but I said something like Oh clocktober I think I said, like, Clocktober is the month we use to celebrate Pete Carroll's decision to always call a timeout about four minutes into the third quarter for absolutely no reason other than funsies.

Yes. And it's like it'll – it's not even like it's on a play where it's, like, critical. Like, I kind of get, you know, it's fourth and two and you're trying to decide to go for it. And you need really to think about it and you need to really make sure you have a good play dialed up. There are a couple of reasons why I think you can call a timeout. before, like, the last two minutes of the game, but they are few and far between. And so much of the time it'll be, like, a play where we've already decided we're going to punt it, and then we just call, like, a meaningless timeout, and it's just absolutely maddening.

Oh, you know who else wasn't in the game? We have some issues at tackle, too. Both our first string and second string left tackles were out. Do you know who that is, Luke?

I don't know who that is.

Here's an audio clue for you. This is our starting tackle. My name is Jack, and I protect your city's favorite quarterback. Jack Conklin. You know who was out there? You know who was out there, though? The king of rock and roll. My name is Joel, and I guard the city of rock and roll. I love it.

God, I love that so much.

Who do the Browns have next week? The Browns are going up against, oh, this should be easy, the Cardinals.

Oh, good. Well, you know what? They're due to come back to Earth. I'm not even kidding. I think the Cardinals – the Cardinals are good, don't get me wrong, but I think that the Cardinals are. Nope, they have not lost. But they've also – they played San Francisco this week. San Francisco is not a strong team. Garoppolo's hurt, so it's Trey Lance starting. He's still a rook. He's still kind of learning the thing. And they didn't beat – they didn't, like, wallop the Niners. They, like, kind of – they outlasted them. But I could see – I mean, think about this, dude. The Chiefs are two and three. They just got thumped at home last night by the Bills. They got embarrassed by the Bills.

Yeah, the Chiefs are, I mean, that doesn't make me feel better, though, because the Chiefs actually, like, they beat us. I mean, actually, if you look at it this way, the Chiefs beat the Chargers, so by, I guess, transit property, of course, the Chargers end up beating us. But like the Chiefs have lost several games now, which it really makes that week one loss to the I'm sorry, the Browns week one loss to the Chiefs a little bit more painful because maybe they were more gettable than I thought.

Well, I guess my point is you just never know. I still think the Chiefs are a good team and I still think the Chiefs are going to be in the AFC championship. But I just think like.

Like, good teams can lose games, is my point. So the good team that is the Arizona Cardinals can lose a game to your beloved Browns. And I do think that the Seahawks can beat the Steelers. The Steelers. That is definitely possible, I think. Although Ben Roethlisberger did actually start to get his S together last week, which didn't help. But I don't know. We shall see. Yeah, and as we get ready here for Monday Night Football, Ravens versus Colts, It's obviously just a very big, loud, heartfelt Go Colts tonight. Go Colts. All right. That's going to have to do it for the show. I've had to DoorDash food sitting outside of my apartment since we started this. That's okay. That's on there. That's right. The Huskies might make the Broccoli Bowl this year. That would be the only bowl game they even get close to. Turns out somebody bounded the W. Somebody found a way to really bound it. So, all right. Anyway, that's the show for this week. We'll be back here next week. We'll do another one of these. Until then, thanks for listening to The No Point. And remember, when we were doing this, there's, of course, absolutely no tangent too long. Or detail too wrong.

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