Muse

You know you rock when you roll with the Seahawks Marshawn Lynch, Beast Moe with his dreadlocks Rolls and passes the ball to the endzone touchdown you know we're gonna get the crown in super bowl 24 team we get the ring the bling listen to the crowd sing seahawks seahawks seahawks we block that offense to say we'll lose is such an offense and nonsense we got the best defense being the other quarterback comes with the expense of the act of being sacked i hope the broncos have enough time to react to the level of game the hawks are bringing that evening a super bowl sunny because they're gonna go all the way for the win starting when the game begins all the way to the end of the game and to go down in fame as the Super Bowl champions of this year, this team should be feared. You better saddle up when you roll with Seattle.

All righty. Special Tuesday edition of the TBTL No Point Conversion. Tough week in Seahawk Town. But a good week if you are a Browns fan. So we find ourselves now in the position I maybe never could have expected, Andrew. which is the Browns are very clearly, I think, the superior football team to the Seahawks now. And we may, like, depending on how the season goes, it may be like the total kind of mirror image of previous no-point seasons where I've been trying to console and comfort you after another tough Browns game while secretly chuffed about my Seahawks. I now need you to be strong for both of us and console me while being secretly chuffed for your Browns.

Yeah, no, absolutely. In fact, I'm trying to think, I wonder if both teams ended up with the same exact record last year. I'm not sure they both did the exact same thing, which is they made it to the playoffs and I think lost in the first round. But, yeah, it is interesting how, and I'm not saying this with any delight, obviously. Of course, I root for the Seahawks as well. But it is interesting how my expectations during these games are so different now. Like, just even speaking on the Brown side of things, it's just weird to have a team that I expect stuff of. Like, no joke. Like, I expected wins. I've expected wins these last two weeks. And I was emotionally prepared to lose on Sunday because I was also distracted with, like, wedding stuff. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to kind of, like, give this game half emotion, half of the emotion I would usually give it. And therefore, if it's a loss, then it's not going to, like, kind of really affect me. Anyway, but I still thought like, yeah, but they'll still still probably pull it out. And they did. The Browns did. Whereas the Seahawks are, I mean, it's a tough it's a tough start, certainly. And it's definitely a tough start when you think about the division that the Seahawks are playing in this year.

Yeah, I know. It's like I heard a joke last night on Monday Night Football that Dallas is one game away from clinching their division, you know, because they're like three and oh. And if they go to four, it's like because they're just in a shit division. It's like, man, it feels like no fairsies that the Seahawks have to be in just the toughest division in football, no question. But I actually was—I wasn't shocked that we lost, but only because of my kind of deep, deeply held belief that things eventually regress to the mean. Russell Wilson was 7-0 against Minnesota. I just didn't think he was going to literally play his whole career and never once lose to the Vikings. We've also won some games against the Vikings that have just been totally improbable, including the Blair Walsh field goal miss. Like, it just felt like luck had been with us against the Vikings. And at some point, that's just going to stop working. And so I had a feeling we might lose that game. But I was, you know, obviously bummed out at the way that we lost that game, which is just a total lack of defense in the second half. and, well, really, a lack of defense throughout the game and a total lack of offense in the second half for the Seahawks. In fact, I believe it was the second game in a row that the Seahawks have not scored in the third quarter. Oh, wow. Which is kind of a function of the defense not getting off the field, like the defense giving up sustained eight-minute drives or something. But it's also our offense not adjusting at the half and not coming out. And it seems like the old-style Seahawks were They would play bad in the first half And then they would play incredible in the second half They would make these adjustments And now it seems like we play pretty well At the beginning of the game And then the defense adjusts And then we don't

have any answers for that we've looked very bad in the second half the last two weeks well yeah i basically the last two weeks because when we lost to the titans we pretty much did all of our impressive stuff in the first half and then i think we had like one kind of touchdown in the in the in the second half that seemed like it salted the game away but obviously it didn't

um can i mention something that i'm going to try to um uh paraphrase something i'm already worried that I'm going to kind of ruin this but um after last week's loss right so the Seahawks uh lost last week's game um I'm sorry I'm blanking on the opponent already but it was only the second Minnesota no I'm sorry Tennessee Tennessee the Tennessee game you know a lot of people were concerned it was only the second game of the season but people were saying how can you run up the score so much in the first half and then kind of kind of have a offensive kind of collapse or deflation in the In the second half of the game, like what happened to the Seahawks always like kind of like gutting it out. And really, they're kind of a second half miracle team. And Danny O'Neill had a little write up about that. I subscribe to his email newsletter, which you can find. I think if you just search for Danny O'Neill newsletters on Substack, I don't know. But I do. I mean, I love that man. I love his takes on things. And he said, listen, what we saw in the Tennessee game is not reason to panic. And the reason why the character of the team seems different, like racking up points in the first half and then not holding on to them in the second half, as opposed to the opposite that it usually is, is because it is a different kind of offense here. And we got to see how it works before everybody starts freaking out. Like when you have a run first offense that Pete Carroll always seems to prefer, you can kind of keep trying that run in the first half and it might get shut down a lot. but then by the second half the run game eventually and I've seen this with the Browns as well the run game can eventually break loose in the second half of the game which is why you saw that character of the Seahawks doing that because they weren't getting ahead in the first half because they're keeping it on the ground but in the second half they could kind of break free and then Russell Wilson could do some some miracle stuff too and now with the Shane is it Shane Walden or Waldron Waldron, this new offensive coordinator, it's going to be more of a pass-first offense. You're going to see some of this stuff. Now, that was his take after last week's Titans game, which I thought was very interesting. What do you make of all of that?

I mean, I do think that Shane Waldron at least started the season with the ability to sort of call the game he wanted to call because, you know, as you just said, Pete Carroll is always going to try to establish the run. and so you know that first game the offense looked really good and everybody was just like talking about this Shane Waldron Russell Wilson connection and just like how you know how great that's going to be all season now I wonder if he is I wonder if if he's gonna if Pete Carroll is going to put him on a shorter leash right forward and start to try to establish run by the way there were some things about the game on Sunday the Seahawks game that were kind of minor or they and get commented on a lot but I think that they were really they were they were impactful one I think Chris Carson pulled a hammy and the reason I noted that was because I had a bet going a sports bet going that if Chris Carson gained over 100 yards and DK Metcalf had over 125 yards I would have won a significant sum from the Oregon lottery and what after like midway through the second quarter DK had 88 yards of receiving and Chris Carson had 87 yards rushing they were both well on their way to winning my bet for me and then all of a sudden Chris Carson just goes missing in the third quarter and I think you know that was we weren't able to sustain drives because we didn't have him we weren't able to really run the ball very effectively in the third quarter also by the way DK only ended up getting nine more yards I think and Chris Carson ended up getting like six more yards or something

Carson ended with 79 yards I can tell you that much

so neither one of them was able to you know keep it going they got off to both got off to really hot starts but I do think that that injury to Chris Carson um was uh kind of was significant because if we could have in the third quarter just stabilized and just like put together a couple of long touchdown drives where you actually run the ball and you know control the ball keep your defense off the field give them a breather that game could have gone really differently also it was pretty much all over but the crying towards the end but I will tell you something that also didn't get commented on which was penny heart was completely interfered with like there was a throw it was fourth and whatever and russell went to the end zone now again we would have had to then onside kick it and do some crazy stuff i don't think we were going to win the game but i i find it really weird that no one was talking about the fact that penny heart is falling backward in the end zone the ball is about to be in his arms and the defender karate chops his arms Thank you.

down as the ball is about to hit his arms and nobody even mentioned that it was obvious pass interference and that was just a strange again you know that's probably me crying over the spilled milk that i want to because there was a more fundamental issues with them with the seahawks um than that but i just thought it was weird that there was if you were to super mow that down you would see that before the ball touches his body the guy is karate chopping both of his arms down which is why he's not able to catch the football is it that the football is so close that it looks

like he was able to do it in a way that it looks like he was going for the ball in pushing down

the arms i mean probably it was a bang bang play and i don't think pass interference is reviewable anymore and also there was this thing where the ball then flew behind penny hart and then a minnesota viking may have had it and it was also a hail mary and it was also the end of the game so it's just like not i think everyone was just kind of like not looking at it the way you would look at the same play in a different part of the game but i just thought that was odd that the seahawks should have had the ball on the one yard line which i don't think we were going to win the game but that still kind of just rankled me a little bit anyway the the it would seem that the biggest issue was the seahawks defense and it's weird because that first game although i don't even remember who we actually opened the season against but that first game that we played uh our defense looked i mean we were putting a lot of pressure on the quarterback and like our defensive line is supposed to be kind of good now because we've got dunlap back and you know jamal adams and the blitz and everything i mean that's a big a huge question mark is is jamal adams ever going to actually deliver on the promise of jamal adams because he i don't i mean i said in our twitter or our sorry our text chain uh on sunday i think i had as many tackles as jamal adams on sunday Like, he had no sacks, he had no pressures that I could see, and without Jamal Adams actually being, I guess what I don't really know is, is the Seahawks' defense fundamentally bad, or did they just run into a team that matched up with them unusually well, or schemes that were hard for them to defend? because we looked good in the first week. We do have decent personnel. I mean, you know, we still have Bobby Wagner. Jamal Adams is supposed to be kind of decent. I guess our secondary looked really suspect, you know, on Sunday. So that's not good because somebody was saying that I was – who was tweeting about – I think it was like Mitch Levy, Mitch in the Morning guy, was tweeting that this is on John Schneider, the secondary, because we didn't go out and get good players in the secondary. We stuck with Trey Flowers, who just looked—Trey Flowers did not look like he should be wearing an NFL uniform on Sunday. He was giving everyone 20 yards of cushion and just looked lost out there. Jamal Adams has never been able to cover anyone. That's not even why you have Jamal Adams. So you better come up with a scheme where you're not expecting him to actually pass defend in important places. We've got this guy, Reed, who's about 5'6", if he's a minute. it and I'm you know obviously they know what his height is but it seems like it's a disadvantage when he's covering a 6-2 receiver um and then uh you know we just yeah we just it doesn't seem like we went out and improved in the secondary now you can get away with a not so great secondary if you can get pressure on the quarterback you can make you know make it hard on the quarterback and then he doesn't even have time to expose your flaws in the secondary but we didn't do that either on Sunday we didn't get enough pressure on Kirk Cousins and so he had all day to just pick our

defense apart I am going to ask a question here it might sound like negging but it's a real question because now Jadavian Clowney is a Brown and had a hell of a game I mean the Browns defensive line

had an amazing game but it does help when you're playing I'm not saying this to be defensive yeah it helps when you're playing a rookie quarterback I mean God bless our Chicago fans but their

quarterback situation is yeah that's rough but there's also no protection for the quarterback either it seemed like i mean yes i don't think fields is i don't think fields is a bust or

anything but but yeah no your defense looked uh looked very very very um uh tough yeah well

they seem like villains but um i mean in a certain way but honestly my question was going to be why did the seahawks not retain clowny was he frustrating last year because i don't remember him being frustrating last year was it just a contract issue it was money he went somewhere else before he went to cleveland oh he wasn't with seahawks last year oh okay i didn't remember no i

think we lost him last year we had him okay i think we signed him mid-season to try to shore things up like two years ago i could be misremembering this and then it was going to cost us too much and he had had that what they now call a um sports injury or something we used called a hernia and and it was like is he going to come back a hundred percent but i mean to the degree that the browns were able to just sort of pick him up and i assume they're not you know paying and they're already paying miles garrett a lot i'm assuming that they're not paying

that much to Jadavian Clowney, yeah, I don't understand why the Seahawks weren't back in the market for more help on the defensive line. I mean, now here's the thing, too, that kind of hovers over all of this, and then we can get to the Browns, too, because that's the more pleasant news of the day, and the Mariners, which is the more intriguing news of the weekend. Oh, yeah, I want to ask you about that, yeah. But, like, remember last year, the Seahawks' defense was poised to actually turn in one of the most one of the worst NFL defensive performances like historically bad over the course of a season because the first few games we were winning games but we were winning them like 50 to 48 like we were the the offense was clicking so much that we were able to get some wins but it was with a defense that was historically bad and then we got Carlos Dunlap and then I don't know something changed and all of a sudden we ended up having a really pretty decent defense for the last half of the season with basically the same personnel we have now minus KJ Wright another thing I read the other day was one of the things that killed us were these screen passes from Minnesota which was KJ Wright's specialty in sniffing out so who knows but anyway the Seahawks did a thing last year where they actually managed to really turn their defense around so the question

is can they do it again this season now I realize that the defense and I did not watch this game at all which is why I only have questions for you I realize that the defense is the big story of this game but I am still very intrigued by this idea of the Seahawks experimenting with a new offense this year that has to work you know obviously and in conjunction with the defense obviously but like you know if the character when I said before what you know like what Danny was kind of writing about and saying you know have patience with this thing and you kind of have to if you're going to go to a different style of offense then you have to be prepared to take a little bit of the bad with the good um but and then when you said well then you know there will be a question going forward whether Pete Carroll will keep this new offensive coordinator on a short leash and then knowing nothing about the details of that it always makes me cringe because I feel like when a team needs to try something new and something bold like this, like if after three games they start like pulling back on that and then ending up in some sort of a middle ground, that just seems, just generally speaking on the face of it, like bad. Like, you know what I mean, to give up. I won't say the name of the company because one of us has a relationship with it, but Genevieve and I used to talk about a big technology company that every now and then would have an interesting, creative marketing campaign, but the second there was even a whiff of controversy or a whiff of somebody not liking it, they would pull back way too quickly, and they just would never commit to anything. And I sort of feel like we're three games in, and again, I know the defense is the big story here, but we're three games in, are you worried about not giving this new offensive coordinator in this you know pretty drastically or pretty radically new you know thinking towards the

offense like pulling that back too quickly well I but but is it radically different I mean Chris Carson had 80 yards in the first half I feel like we still hand the ball off in the Shane Waldron offense like that's the thing I people are talking about this new offense and it's like I haven't looked at the numbers so I it doesn't like it feels to me like even if you're Shane waldron ideally a team establishes a strong run game just because it gives you so many more other options like i don't think that there's any offensive coordinator who is like i don't i mean people are no longer running the west coast offense which was actually literally like you might never hand it off the entire game because you're just throwing like three yard passes all day long but like i guess i guess i you know i think it would be not great if they go into the mode of just trying to throw various things against the wall to see if they stick that's just never a good position to be in um but i mean so i don't know how to answer that question uh exactly other than to say hopefully they will continue to try to execute their plan but it's weird because it's like when it works it's great and when it doesn't work it's bad you know what i mean in other words i don't know what you do differently i guess i don't know if it's that if i don't i don't know if you just try to hand the ball to carson more i don't know if you try to block better I don't know if you try to run shorter routes I'm not really sure what the Seahawks need to do in this in the second half but the other it would appear that the other teams at least the last two weeks sort of adjusted and then they were able to largely neutralize the Seahawks offense well really what it came down to was the Seahawks had some critical three and outs just some like times when they really needed to move the ball and at the very least flip the field position but at the very best take a bunch of time off the clock and go down and score and we're not able to do that at times and also

Russell Wilson looks noticeably slower to me when he runs like he he had like one scramble for like three yards, which looked awkward to me. Like the days of the or maybe they're just not calling it, but the days of the, you know, the Russell Wilson bootleg that was always the most fun part of any game was they would set it up all game long and just be Russell Wilson handing off, handing off, handing off. And then when you least expected it, he'd keep it, and he'd go around the corner, and he'd get like 30 yards, and it was just like pandemonium. He does not look like that quarterback anymore as far as running. And then you see somebody like Kyler Murray running, and you're just like – it's like when your kid is three, and then one day they're 23, and then you see someone else's three-year-old, and you're like, oh, I remember those days. That's like Kyler Murray versus Russell Wilson.

You know, I have a terrible memory for these things, but I feel like in the first two games, maybe it was actually after the first game, the Seahawks-Colts game, I could have sworn that I actually even said on the show it was good to see them actually planning offensive plays and using Russell Wilson's legs earlier in the game. I swear we saw that and commented on that, because that first game, I feel like in the first half, we saw Russell Wilson taking advantage of that Russell Wilson-iness, that ability to move, instead of waiting until it's the fourth quarter and you're down by seven, and now finally he just takes the ball into his own hands because he has to. Like, I thought we were seeing that established earlier in one of the earlier games. Maybe I'm misremembering that. But again, I didn't see this last Sunday's game, but I'm hoping that whatever you saw with him looking maybe a little bit slower and unsteady, I hope that was just the circumstances of this particular game because I still think he could potentially be weaponized in that way.

Yeah, I mean, the thing, if we were not in the NFC West that we're in, this would not be as troubling as it is. Because the problem is, you've got to get a win at home against Tennessee, because every team in our division is super hard. Now, the Seahawks also historically, I feel like, play up and play down to the competition. so um i i don't think like i think the seahawks at home playing a division rival i think that the seahawks are going to give those division rivals a really tough go like i don't i don't think because we lost to minnesota who's one and two that means it's a guarantee it's it's a given that we're going to lose to los angeles although los angeles looks incredibly strong right now like people are saying the best team in the nfl hands down because with stafford at quarterback and that defense with Aaron Donald is just I mean they are a very very very imposing team but I've seen the Seahawks you know play up to the competition and play down to the competition I think they sort of played down to the competition with Minnesota and then just looked bad they just made Minnesota look like the superior team which I don't necessarily think they are but I could see them playing up to the competition and again really at least at home you know giving all of these teams in the NFC West to go. That being said, it seems like the Seahawks getting to the playoffs is going to have to be by way of the wild card. Like, that just has to be the focus. I just think it's going to be too hard to have more wins in the division and a better overall record than any of these other teams in our division, which are top to bottom, maybe the two or three best teams in the NFL.

Yeah, I got to say, I mean, and I didn't watch this game. I'll keep caveating that, but I was very, I think I was very Pollyanna-ish and optimistic even after the heartbreaking Seahawks loss of last week. I was like, listen, it was week two. I know we're in a tough division, but it was week two. Let's not overreact. There's something, though, as far as the traditional character of the Seahawks. I would have expected them to beat the Vikings at this point. Even if it was Green Bay, I probably would have expected them to win because we play those teams a lot, and they're tough teams, but I feel like often we can pull it out, not always with Green Bay, of course. But then we would stumble against I don't even know What's a much lesser team This year I don't know Maybe not the Lions But maybe not that bad But you know what I mean Like I would expect them to play down Sorry Ken Yeah sorry Who's Ken?

Our listener Ken Who's in Detroit Oh right

Yeah I know Ken Yeah right But anyway Anyway I would expect them to trip On a somewhat lesser team But then really compete With these other teams And I would have them to win usually something against the NFC North, whereas I don't know. Now I'm starting to question whether or not we can carry over any character takeaways from previous seasons of the Seahawks as they figure this out. But again, it's still relatively early. There's an extra game this year. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I just don't know how many of the—

capital T truths of the Seahawks personality are going to apply this year or we're maybe

redefining that well there was there's just for basically ever since Russell Wilson became quarterback there's been some sort of like fairy dust sprinkled over the Seahawks and they just have always exceeded expectations I mean they haven't won the Super Bowl every year but they've been to the Super Bowl twice they've just always seems to always they seem to always sort of rise to the occasion there's just always Russell just always has some trick up his sleeve and so you start to just assume that that's how it's always going to be and that they're always going to pull it out they're always going to find a way which is you know it's fun to have that positivity around your football team but yeah all things must come to an end and this year will be interesting to see if this is the year that that fairy dust kind of isn't as uh as as liberally sprinkled about because I mean last year we didn't do well in the playoffs but we had a a good season on paper I think we went like 12 and 4 or something like the Seahawks for the for the last 10 years have just been a team that is always putting together I mean I mean one year we might have been like close to 500 but we just have generally figured out a way to get it done and this year I have to admit now there's also a low point talk to me in three weeks if we just come out and we just like win three games handily i may have a completely new take on this but this feels like this could be the year where that fairy dust is kind of evaporated maybe or or we just have you know

maybe it's changed and we just haven't seen it yet like there's no reason for me as we enter week four to think oh what a disaster the experiment the grand experiment is over or or what or the I was maybe I was combining two things their experiment of like the again potentially new offense but also is the is it the end of an era I'm not willing to say that yet again just a little reminder I think it was Jamal Adams who was like kind of was Jamal's first year with the Seahawks last season or am I confusing him with someone else there was somebody it was last year who I think it was him and he was like so psyched to be making it into the playoffs and in this press conference he's like you guys are spoiled like you know like I don't know why you guys are not more excited he's like I I'm in a playoff game this is exciting for me you guys are just like you just make it to the playoffs every year for the past decade like you know so there's there's some of that as well I think the expectations of the Seahawks are very high but again we can't we can't ignore the fact that yeah the expectations have to be high given who's in the division

Also, one last quick thing. We have to stop with the critical penalties like Ugo Amati's hold that extended a drive. So basically the Seahawks were rolling and they had sacked Kirk Cousins on like third and nine. And it was like, you know, it was gonna be like fourth and 20 or something. It was this triumphant moment. And then Ugo Amadi gets flagged for holding a receiver who's not even really critical to the play. And that gave Minnesota first down. And then Minnesota went on to drive the field and score a touchdown. And that was literally the Seahawks, I don't think, scored again after that. Like, it was crazy. That is a killer. It was a major momentum change. I love Ugo Amadi's game, generally speaking, but, of course, the Tennessee game was full of these penalties at the least good time. And Pete Carroll's teams have always been highly penalized because Pete Carroll's vibe is like, I'm chewing gum, I'm high-fiving, I'm Mr. Fun Times, I'm Mr. Eternally Positive, which isn't the same guy as, I'm going to fine you $100 if you get a hold call. So the Seahawks have always had a lot of penalties But they've been especially killer penalties The last couple of games And they have to figure out a way to get that under control Now this just sounds like The non-Seahawks fans listening to me I'll be like this is what Luke always says And this is the sound of one Seahawks fan Whining in the woods But like I also think you could call a penalty on every single play I'm now forgetting the exact play But there was something that happened in the Minnesota game That was a real backbreaker and they were just showing the replay and of course the announcers were doing the thing they always do which is minnesota just did what looked like a good play and they've immediately formed the narrative that so-and-so is just a really good running back and then when you see the replay literally every single seahawk is being held like critically held like reaching for the guy with the ball and being like held in by like the inside of their pads and it was like every seahawk in the frame was being was being held and they didn't throw a flag now I'm not saying that to say that had they thrown that flag the CX win the game like the CX lost this game all by themselves but penalties are frustrating because you could throw a flag on every play so when the

officials decide to throw the flag and not throw the flag is what makes me crazy because it feels like the seahawks and again this is probably how every team feels but it feels like the seahawks they decide to throw the flag on the seahawks at times that are very inopportune when they could have thrown the flag on any other play on minnesota or tennessee or whomever and they just don't um so you know i don't that's probably skewed by my own bias biases bias but um this at the very least CS got to figure out a way to not get flagged on these, like, drive-extending penalties.

There was a penalty in the Browns game that I didn't even see myself, but apparently it was a real BS call. It was, I think it was near the beginning of the first half, and I watched the first half of the game. I watched pretty much all of the first half of the game, but then by the second half I had to start, like, kind of getting ready to go out and meet up at the wedding party to get ready and stuff. And so, like, I was in the shower for part of it trying to listen to it on my phone, and I couldn't – it just wasn't working out too well technologically for me, but Genevieve is still watching the game in the other room. And I get out of the shower, and I hear her yelp, and she's so mad about something, and she's so mad. And I'm like, what's going on? And she's like – it was like – I think it was a third down situation for the Bears, And I think they threw a long ball towards, you know, very near the end zone and it was broken up by some Browns defender. I don't even know who it was. And apparently the Browns defender maybe like just brushed, gently brushed the back of the receiver. Right. And, you know, I get into the room. I can even hear the announcers just straight out saying, like, that's not a call. and Genevieve is so pissed and like I told you before because I was distracted for this game and because I went into the half thinking oh the Browns could really could really lose this game I mean the first half was a weird half I'm trying to think they might have gone into the half three to three although the Browns might have scored a late touchdown so it might have been ten to three but either way first half nobody really looked good um so I was pretty pretty much reserved to the fact that the Browns could get a loss yesterday. But Genevieve was so stomping mad over this call that I let it go. And, again, I didn't see it, but, you know, bad call. That sucks. Now they're right at their goal line. And Genevieve was just, like, not letting it go, and I couldn't have loved her more. I just couldn't love her more being in the other room, just, like, so mad about an unfair call against a Browns defender that I didn't even see. And I was kind of like, oh, well, c'est la vie.

You've put your evil inside her.

I really did. Really?

You've really changed her. Maybe for the better, maybe not.

I put my hand on her shoulder and I said, Genevieve, I think you're taking sports a little bit too seriously. It's just a game. Calm down.

So, yeah, so the Browns did beat the Bears. The Bears, again, I don't mean to harp on this, and I know we've got listeners. In fact, one listener who's e-biking through Manhattan right now, who's a dyed-in-the-wool,

all caps the most angry text i've ever received from this friend i sensed more fear than anger

fear that he would have to do his 90 minute ride without no our sports wisdom on a monday but um i don't want to i don't you know it's so weird like i grew up in the era when like the the 85 bears the super bowl shuffle bears and i am and none of this i'm not saying any of this to pile on to Bears fans but I just grew up with the Bears being such a good team and it's only it's it's like only upon reflection do I realize just how long it's been for the Bears to have a really solid team and it seems like it always comes down to the quarterback position like it's just been I mean good NFL quarterbacks are not easy to find so many teams struggle uh with not having a good NFL quarterback but it just seems like that has been for whatever reason the thing that has plagued Remember Mitch Trubisky. Remember, I don't know who I can't remember who was before Trubisky, but it's like every I mean, was there a Brian Hoyer era? Did Hoyer go over there? I just feel like there's just been there's just been so many different things that were supposed to finally be the fix for for Chicago. And and maybe Justin Fields will be that. I mean, it's just you also got to protect a quarterback, particularly a rookie. you've got to you know you've got to protect them and uh and Cleveland looked really good their line looked really good um how did you feel about the game boy there was a Brian Hoyer era

that in 2016 it was Barkley Cutler and Hoyer so Cutler must have started that season injured and then Trubisky the following year Barkley wow yeah yeah and then um there was some Chase Daniels mixed in there just a little bit he must have been uh playing for an injured Trubisky and then a Nick Foles.

in 2020 who's still there by the way or is he still the backup okay yeah well he's one of them

and apparently it's it's the question is it's like foals uh andy dalton and justin fields are the all of them are equally possible to go this week at quarterback according to matt nagy the uh the coach of the uh the bills or excuse me the bears but but back to the browns the browns looked good their defense looked really solid they are just starting to play or not starting to but they just are very much a team that wins games that they should win. And that's a thing.

Well, the weird thing is, is the first half, they didn't look that great. Actually, I had not seen the and this is again, I realize, I mean, I want to recognize my privilege here. Like it is so funny that I have expectations for the for the Browns now. But like when you consider the end of last season and the first two games of this season, And one of which we lost to the Chiefs, the one in two Chiefs, by the way, Seahawks fans. Think about that. I saw an offense that was really sparking. I mean, Baker Mayfield was just he looked so comfortable and he was making great plays and he had great quarterback ratings the first two games. And then and then here we are in game three. And I just, I mean, the Bears' defense really did not give them any time to set anything up. It was the most unbalanced I'd seen the Browns' offense looking in a long time. I was like, oh, my God. Like, it just seemed like the defensive line was busting up the offensive line so quickly. Baker couldn't get anything done. He was also slightly less accurate. Maybe some of that is on him for the first half of that game. um obj was back and um christ almighty was i wrong i was saying all during the offseason like i'm fine if obj doesn't come back he doesn't have great on-field chemistry with baker like he's more valuable to another team let's take advantage of that value we don't need him as a receiver like oh my god like he came into this game ready to play and they uh him and baker were connecting i I don't even know if there was any targets that he didn't. Yeah, there were some targets that he was not able to bring in, I think. But they had a really good completion percentage, those two. So I'm really glad to have him back. But, yeah, the Browns offense really stuttering in the first half there. But then in the second half.

The Bears defense is always good, too, by the way, with, you know, like Hicks and Mack. I mean, those guys are sturdy.

And now Mack did leave the game for a bit, too. And even with him gone, though, my memory is even with him gone, the Browns still struggled against that defense in that first half. But then the second half, it was like the Browns defense, which, by the way, the problem with last week's game, which the Browns did end up winning, was a disappearing defense. Like there was no pressure. It was like they must have. Again, I don't know what's going on with the Bears O-line. I guess, you know, quarterbacks have to take responsibility, some responsibility for some of their sacks. But there's no way that Justin Fields is responsible for six, seven, seven, six. I don't know how many times he was laid flat. I mean, he was just not protected. And you just had you had Miles Garrett with like a he set the all time record. I think a franchise record was an NFL record or franchise. No, I meant the franchise. Yeah. And yeah. And Clowney, like we said, and then a rookie whose name he has a hyphenated name that's not coming to me right now. But, I mean, there was just so much pressure. And suddenly it was like the Browns defense just suddenly tasted blood, and they got scary. I was scared of them, like, as a fan. I was like, oh, no. So anyway, yeah, so then the second half, again, I feel bad for Bears fans because that was just no fun to watch. That was the type of game where I just, like, if I'm a Bears fan, I don't even know if I keep watching it. Just to watch your rookie quarterback just slaughtered again and again and again.

Yeah, it would be a tough one to watch as a Bears fan. But the other thing, too, when I said that the Browns are winning games that they're supposed to win, I also mean they're winning games that they're supposed to win even if they don't come out clicking right away, which is also a good thing because it's like you're not going to win every NFL game. Even when you're playing a team that you're probably better than on paper, you're not going to win by 30 points every game. That's just not how it works. And there could have been a couple seasons ago a version of this this where the browns are just not clicking and then the just the game just gets away from them somehow but now they're just confident enough and mature enough uh to you know uh just kind of figure it out as they go and even if they have not a great first half they just come back in second half and get it done so they are two and one yeah they're two and one and again you just

can't say enough good things about chubb and hunt and them just like i mean chunt oh chunt i mean And Chunt, just like, you know, first half broke off.

a few here and there but then the the second half just like god they just are like rolling downhill now i will say this let's look ahead a little bit here next week i'm i don't know man you watched the vikings last week i did not but the the browns are going into the twin cities to play

the vikings like i don't know how to feel about that i think the browns are gonna crush them really yeah because your defense is really good and i don't think kirk cousins can kirk cousins is not going to have another performance like he had against the Seahawks against the Browns because I just think Miles Garrett's going to be in his face and he'll be just I think it's going to throw him off and uh yeah I mean I I I would I would definitely and peace and love to our Minnesota listeners I just think that the Browns are a better team than the Vikings I'm nervous about it

I don't know why I I think the last two games I was like Texans Bears I'm optimistic like I'm just looking at it and I just think I could see I could see a weird upset there I don't know why um i could see the the browns defense maybe looking past this game after coming alive and just like you know feasting on the bears last week and maybe just thinking that they maybe they have it in hand i don't know why i don't know why maybe because i want the win so bad but i am um i don't know for some reason as a browns fan i'm nervous about going going into minnesota next week and who do the seahawks have 49ers this is really big actually on the road so like you said like i Again, I'm not trying to be Pollyanna-ish about it, but I'm just not feeling as dire about the Seahawks as you guys are, and maybe that's because I didn't grow up here and just haven't been living on this roller coaster ride as long. But, like, I don't know. The Seahawks always seem to pull something out. But I will say, you know, having, you know, kind of thrown away two now and now playing division rivals. Now, the 49ers did not beat Green Bay this week,

but they lost on a last second oh my god made it a game they were leading with like 18 seconds oh really see i didn't know that aaron rogers did an aaron rogers and like got them into field goal range and then they they won i mean it was a very back and forth game um and uh and yeah i mean san francisco with a healthy jimmy garoppolo and a uh pretty solid defense joey bosan defense i think is still they're kind of like one of their big dudes um i think san francisco is formidable i mean again i just don't think there are any teams in the nfc west that aren't formidable right now i mean except maybe the seahawks so i am hoping that and it's sunday night football right isn't it like one of those primo i don't have that on my schedule unless something got

changed i'm just looking at the one i made at the beginning of the season i have um i have it as a

one o'clock game oh okay so uh you know i am hoping that we rise to the occasion i would really wish that we were at home playing this game it'd be much better to have a bounce back if let me put it this way if we somehow can just like play a really good game and beat the Niners there and get to two and two and then have you know that scratched off the list for for because you know we'll obviously host the Niners at some point if we could if we could do that that would be huge I'm also worried about George Kittle George Kittle is a beast at tight end and I just feel like our defense are you know has been so soft uh that we're gonna have to figure out something because i have a bad i i have some nightmares of george kittle just rumbling travis kelsey style for you know 30 yards after the catch and us having a hard time stopping him so i always predict seahawk victories on this show i'm always like but i gotta say i don't i will be surprised let me put it this way i will be surprised if the seahawks beat san francisco on the road yeah like and i think if you're looking at it next week all all around i mean i would much rather be going back and i'd go back to minnesota if i could i'd have the seahawks just like turn the plane around and i'd go play the vikings again in a heartbeat instead of having to play the niners wait maybe what if the brown maybe could we orchestrate something that nobody would

know about but we put the seahawks in browns uniforms send them back to minnesota next week The Browns go to San Francisco Maybe take care of the Niners Who knows But then technically you guys But then who gets the W

Well both teams I think the Browns have a better chance of beating the Niners And I think the Seahawks would beat Minnesota If they got another chance So everybody wins We never have to reveal the scheme Except we've already talked about it here So we need everyone listening to this to be cool

Just be cool guys

if you see if you see miles garrett in a seahawks jersey oh my god just tackling out of jimmy garoppolo suddenly that got really real i never want to see him in another jersey never um let's talk about the mariners really quick oh yeah we gotta do that uh this you know the mariners are as we record this uh have five games left Thank you.

They are a game and a half out of the last wildcard spot. And everybody that I've been listening to and reading says that it's just we just sort of have to win every game because we have to we have to leapfrog somehow two teams because it's like Toronto, I think, is still ahead of us. And then you've got Boston and the Yankees, I think, almost tied. So two of those teams have to fall out and we have to then get up into that like second position. so if we win the rest of our games we will be 92 and whatever that leaves math hard 160 minus 92 carry the four anyway sorry i'm not jumping in here because i'll just make it worse we have 92 we'll have nine i mean if like as if we can just you know win just reel off five that actually would be then i think seven wins in a row because didn't we win we won our last game In Anaheim and then we came Up here and we beat the A's So that's two wins and we've Got to try to get five more so we've got to try to End the season on a seven game Winning streak which would

Be also I believe We would have to win what would that be Seven out of our last Nine games too I think Well sure yeah I mean yeah we would No no I'm sorry more than that more than that it would be Because the streak we're on We also before that swept Oakland

Right, right, right. And then before that, we lost one. Anyway, we've been on quite a streak anyway. So it'd be just incredible. Yeah, it would be really something. But you and I were talking about this like before TBTL today, that just the very fact that the Mariners are playing relevant games here at the end of September is just such a surprise, considering that this was still supposed to be one of our rebuilding years. um uh it's been really fun and it's you know uh i was telling you also there's a little bit of a 95 vibe going on here uh when we came back from however many games back it was like 11 games back in august or something to catch i think it was the angels um like last night the the monday night game where the mariners immediately went down three nothing and then we're down four three and ended up winning was it like 11 to four or something it was like we just ended up scoring so many runs the re it felt 95 ish to me because i was watching it and i just kind of thought there's an inevitability to this mariners win like okay we're down almost like the seahawks used to feel like oh they'll just figure out a way to do it and they've just been winning so many games in september have the mariners that it just feels like they're gonna figure this out they kind of always do and that's cool too so like i don't know if you know i don't know how this is all gonna go it still seems slightly improbable that they would make the postseason But the fact that we're even talking about it is just pretty awesome.

Yeah, this has been the most amazing baseball season of my life. Like as a Mariners fan, I've never seen them go this far. I do believe there was a year when I was in L.A. that they were. I feel like there was if they had won one game, they would have got. Yeah, they missed the playoffs by like a game or two, like two seasons in a row, which is. Yeah. And that was a while back. That's almost a decade ago now. Not quite. But but this has just been amazing. And I've gone to a lot of games this year, including like the best game I ever went went to where the where the Mariners were down seven to nothing or maybe seven to one in the second inning and then came back to win against the Astros. Just like just amazing. And that was in the second half of the season. Just amazing, amazing season. And yeah, 2021 was originally going to be the year that like DePoto and the and the team was touting that we'd be competitive. But then with the pandemic, there was no there was no minor leagues last year. So that set everything back a year. And supposedly they now have these young players that some of which some of whom they've brought up, some of whom they're still getting ready to bring up. But supposedly the word on the street is the Mariners, for the first time since I've been a fan, are ready to actually spend in the offseason and bring in some veterans to complete the scene and actually make a go of it for 2022. And for some reason, I'm I'm believing that. And this team has been so fun. Like, I'm not actually optimistic that there's going to be a miracle where they win out, some other teams lose, and we make it to the playoffs. I don't actually think that's going to happen, but I'm definitely here for all of this. It has been so amazing to watch meaningful baseball during the fall. Like, literally, I've never had this feeling before. I'm usually just totally done with the team by then because I've given them so much of my heart and pain. And then they're, you know, out of it by this point, mathematically. And so I don't really have to, you know, I'll turn on the game and have it on the background. Whereas now I'm still, you know, paying attention mostly to every single pitch. And the one thing I want to say, though, is while we're doing a no point with five games left and this hunt going on, we still have some drama going on like today. And I don't know how much you've been following this.

Oh, yeah. Are we going to start Iwakuma or not?

We're not. Yeah. So we're not. Yeah, no, so Kikuchi has been...

Oh, Kikuchi, sorry.

Yeah, he started the season really great. I actually got to see two of his starts, and they were so good. He would usually give up a solo home run in the first or second, but then just dial it in, and he was what we wanted him to be. He was our only all-star this year, I think. But then the second half of the season, it's been painful to see. It's been brutal on him because, I mean, even not being a mariner, I just root for him. I just think he's a cool guy, and he's just collapsed. And so he's supposed to, you know, given the usual rotation, he would be starting today. And there was all this scuttlebutt about whether or not they were going to bring up this this rookie who was actually in double A just like five days ago, Matt Brash. And they've rushed him up through triple A. And now they've they've got him up on the Mariner squad and they're going to sit Kikuchi today. They're not starting this rookie, Matt Brash, today. They're actually going to just skip Kikuchi in the order and play Tyler. What's Tyler's? No. I'm sorry. Oh, shoot. Who's our? Tyler Anderson? Logan Gilbert? Yes, Tyler Anderson. Yes, sorry. I was thinking Tyler was his last name. So Tyler Anderson is going to start tonight. And then I don't know if they're going to start Brash on the following game, Or maybe they'll do something where they, you know, have a bullpen starter for him and then put him in for like three to five innings, depending on how he does. They'll have to I mean, it's just such a weird time to be introducing a pitcher who is, you know, one of our top prospects, but was in was playing double a ball two weeks ago, less than two weeks ago.

I don't understand, though, why you don't just start Kikuchi and just be ready to pull him at the first sign of trouble because he has had a really bad second half of the season, but he also made the All-Stars. He was capable. He's got it in him somewhere. He has pitched successfully in the majors this season. I don't know. I just feel like I'd put him out there and then literally be ready to pull him in the first if he puts one runner on. And you might get lucky. This is also why I bet every long shot bet on the sports betting app and they rarely come through because i'm just i'm like you know you never know kikuchi could just like go out of his mind and give you seven you know seven innings of

one hit ball but if he doesn't i mean this is the most like with this number of games left and with everything riding on them service has to be so careful with his bullpen like this is where it's really a chess match because if kikuchi does go out there because i mean they've also done just like bullpen games you know this season um because of various injuries and whatnot and you know that's kind of fine in the beginning or middle of the season but right now like if you're still going three games from now and you're still in the hunt but like you've you've kind of worn out your bullpen you're screwed so I think that's why there's no talk of a bullpen game now and not not a lot of appetite for watching Kikuchi flame out in like the second inning and then just having a bullpen for seven innings like I think they're just they have to kind of keep in

mind the rest of the stretch right but I guess it's like so you move Anderson up and so then that means like you said they're gonna have to do something creative after that because it's like a you know it's like a puzzle and if you move one piece then that throws something else out of whack yeah that's why I decided that they're gonna go with Anderson and then it sounds like they're gonna try to figure out what to do you know tomorrow based on that and that could be some kind of weird you know sort of bullpenish thing but sort of with this guy brash whatever that's

my guess and i haven't heard anybody say that specifically and this news is pretty what i don't know if it broke this morning or last night that that brash is actually coming up into the majors against the timing on this is so funny i'm just thinking the pressure there's so much pressure but my guess my my uh cold hard facts take is um that they will we will probably see matt brash get the unofficial start tomorrow with like a bullpen starting for him uh and then and then maybe we see him in the second inning maybe you know and i'm sure they'll have him on a very short pitch count too so anyway yeah no it's a big question i mean that that kikuchi question has been like that's been the big conundrum like do you just put him on a short lease and see what he does or not and it looks like the answer is or not yeah well it's exciting

that they're still relevant if they could somehow just pull a rabbit out of this hat that would take some of the edge off of the Seahawks possibly having a not great season yeah right I just need one sports thing to go right in my life it certainly ain't the University of Washington Husky football team so oh my gosh yeah and I'm down here behind enemy lines it's just like everybody's just Oregon Ducks city down here and are they good this year yes they're like number three in the country they beat Ohio State on the road it's like Becca's whole family are ducks as

It's like everyone's just like gagged me with a frickin' cartoon of Donald Duck already over it. I feel like a lot of duck talk on TBTL. Yeah, that is right. Between the real show and this thing today, it's been a lot of ducks. All right. We should probably wrap things up here and kind of close things out as we often do by saying when you're talking about the TBTL no-point conversion, there's just absolutely no tangent too long. Or fact too wrong. detail ironically that was a detail that we got wrong I'm an ideas guy Michael

no matter what you are I will always be with you doesn't matter what you do

girl girl with you no matter what you do I will always be around

We'll be right back.