Muse

Well, here goes nothing with another new episode of THC, truly independent of any outside sponsors, networks, agents, or conflicts of interest of any kind. I've got no strings on me. As always, the first hour is free in the full two hour show is for plus members. And can you believe it right now you can get a seven day free trial of THC plus and it doesn't even require you to put in a credit card. Just grab the link from the show notes or that QR code. If you're watching on YouTube, it'll take you to the higher side chats put in only your email address and I'll send you a username and password to access the full archive of extended interviews and bonus shows going back to 2010. You can hear more about it after the show. There's other details and all that stuff. Lots of wild taboo material to be dug up in there. Don't say I didn't warn you. Enjoy. Well, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood from the sunshine state. I'm Greg Carlwood. And I think many of us recognize that the Western medical system's arrogance is certainly not justified by their outcomes. In fact, the United States ranks in the bottom third when comparing mortality rates across high-income nations despite Americans spending substantially more on their health care. Meaning the vast majority of people put their full trust in the best treatments available through conventional Western medicine across the board and by their outcomes rank worse than North Korea, Thailand, Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Iran, and Saudi Arabia by a lot. So how is this arrogance earned, this attitude that the orthodoxy could never be wrong, and this social stigma levied against anything we might call alternative? The extreme judgment of taking any unconventional health path from unvaccinated kids to treating cancer without radiation seems largely based on momentum and marketing more than any actual success rate. If you ask me, we should be screaming out for new and better models and remain open-minded to any new paradigm of health that maintains logical consistency and seem simpatico with the natural systems of the reality that we're a part of. Which is why today's guest is Dr. Tom Cowan. He's one of the most popular naturopathic doctors with a holistic approach on this island earth. He's worked as a general practitioner for almost 40 years, helping and treating thousands of patients, largely by asking them to stop poisoning themselves with bad food and toxic medications. He was a founding board member of the Westin a price foundation and formerly served as the vice president and he is the author of several important books including human heart cosmic heart a doctor's quest to understand treat and prevent cardiovascular disease cancer and the new biology of water why the war on cancer has failed and what that means for more effective prevention and treatment vaccines autoimmunity and the changing nature of childhood illness and several books co-authored with sally fallon morrell as well, including The Truth About Contagion, exposing theories of how disease spreads, The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care, and The Fourfold Path to Healing, working with the laws of nutrition, therapeutics, movement, and meditation in the art of medicine.

You can now find a wide range of better than just organic products, from kumquat marmalade to probiotic hot sauce at drcowensgarden.com, and he's the founder of the New Biology Clinic, where you can get health consultations and holistic wellness support from a wide range of experts operating outside the rockefeller medicine system i've been mentioning dr cowan's work around here for at least the last six years and it's a real pleasure to finally have him here the virus myth eviscerator holistic health educator and dogma fighting doctor dr tom cowan

welcome to the higher side the only clarification i am not a naturopathic doctor i knew there might

be some issues with the language there it's hard to find the right language what what's the language

would you use? I mean, my training officially is I'm a medical doctor, just like every other MD. But a naturopathic doctor is a specific training, which I never had. Fair. I know you have

conventional training from Duke, but I don't know if that does justice to your position

with the other people who have the same training. Right. Well, I clearly have different opinions, but as far as a formal designation, I was an MD. I mean, I still am. I graduated from Michigan State Medical School and did a family practice residency. Fair.

It is tricky because even the word alternative I don't like because the Rockefeller Medicine System should be the alternative. So it is tricky language for me when these things happen, but I've been a fan of yours for a long time. I first heard you deconstructing the idea of contagious viruses right around the beginning of COVID with the viral dolphin analogy clip. And it got me asking those questions for the first time. And I've interviewed Dr. Gerald Pollack about the fourth phase of water. Then I learned about your book, Cancer and the New Biology of Water. I then listened to some root.

off Steiner lectures about the heart not being a pump, and then I learned you have the book Human Heart, Cosmic Heart. So in several instances, in like a synchromistic way, I would learn about something and then find that you already had the best book out there that covered that position. So I've just been really impressed with so many of your perspectives. And to kind of get started here, why do you think there is such mainstream resistance to the idea that our bodies can help themselves we know if we get a cut or a scrape the body will heal it because it's obvious we observe that but when it comes to the inside so many people think we need a couple dozen shots and pills for everything and any discomfort or symptom requires an intervention from a medical expert we don't apply the same logic to the inside as the outside

one of the things that's interesting to me is from my perspective now it's really i think the word is surprising and perplexing why when we were in medical school we being me and the other you know medical students we didn't ask certain questions because the questions seem obvious to me right now but nobody seemed to ask them and and the re what i'm thinking of with in response to this question is looking back there was only one thing you had to believe in order to actually graduate and become a medical doctor so you could be like a sex offender you could be an alcoholic you could be a drug abuser you could be stupid you could be a lot of things but if you thought that the patient was responsible for their own like health you couldn't be a medical doctor we were taught that people are victims of forces beyond their control or their agency that you just were walking around and some virus got you or you got bad genes or bad luck or something. And if you didn't believe that, you wouldn't be able to get through. The one exception was smoking. If you smoke, you're a dumbass, so you get what you deserve. But otherwise, it's all victim consciousness. and so when they think when they say well why can't you heal the reason is because you're

just a victim anyways and so why should you heal yeah it's really perceptional as at its core and this medical system sprung up that yeah you had to have blind faith in it is a dogma orthodoxy these religious terms do apply to it wouldn't you say it's a completely a superstition

and the superstition is embedded you know i i i give a talk called the day the science died and i won't get into the whole background of that but around the end of the last century and it's not Not that it started then, but it really became codified then, early 1900s, late 1800s. The scientific community decided to substitute observations and experiments with models. In other words, if you see something, or if you can do a simple experiment, like if I hit the nail with the hammer, does the nail go in? So you can do that experiment and then you can do with your arm to see if it's the hammer or maybe it's just your arm. So that simple experiment will tell you that it's the hammer that makes the nail go in. But the scientific community decided not to go that route and they made a model of why nails go into walls. and it didn't matter if there nobody observed the nail going into the wall like nobody had observed a virus and nobody has done an experiment that shows there is such a thing but never mind because we don't science doesn't believe in that anymore they believe in models or, as Einstein said, free conceptions of the mind. In other words, making shit up. So they just make shit up, and they call that reality, and then they make a story about how it works, and that becomes science. Yeah. And something I kind of picked up from Steiner was him talking about blood and just how it's such a mysterious, almost spiritual substance, because you can't really isolate blood from the whole. You can't really take it out of the body or out of the system and study it as if it really is. And that's true for so many things. I had Daniel Reuters here. Andy Kaufman's been here. David Crowe has been here. a lot of people who will go back to the original contagion studies and say, look, they pulled the snot out of a sick person, jammed it into a healthy person. They can't make it work in a laboratory setting. And then you go into things like, how did we discover vitamin C? Well, they saw that the orange helped the people with scurvy. So they dissected it and they cut it up and they mixed its parts together in the centrifuge. And then they added formaldehyde and other dyes. And they looked at the little squiggle under the microscope and said there it is that's vitamin c and when you think it when you logic that out you think about it it's like well that clearly

doesn't make a lot of sense maybe you can't separate individual things from the whole and then put them in a pill and say here this is just as good as an orange i'm on that page but you mentioned observations and now i'm a dad of a two-year-old and a four-year-old and this whole thing about contagion like sally fallon morell was here when your book with her came out and we talked about this i'm on the page that the model is wrong and that the idea of contagion is not backed up by any real study but my observational effect does seem to suggest that when some well people are around some sick people, they also get sick. That's an observation that I can't shake. What's a better model or a better replacement for explaining that observation?

Well, there's two things here. First of all, science is not about competing theories or models. And in fact, if you go down that road, you will end up seriously inhibiting your ability to learn. Let me give you an example. Let's imagine you have an 18-year-old Asian fellow and his parents are Caucasian, right? And one day he looks through his parents' closet and he finds adoption papers. They got him from an orphanage in China. and so he realized he never saw a picture of his mother pregnant and goes to his parents to say is this true i'm adopted and they say yeah we didn't want to tell you we got you from this orphanage in china right so that's very clear so he goes to his best friend he says i'm a little shook up i just found out i was adopted his friend says who your real parents and he says i don't know they got me from an orphanage in China. And he says, until you tell me who your real parents are, I don't believe you were adopted. That's ridiculous, right? Right. Which means that the process of logic, thinking, and science is examining claims. The claim that you were the adopted. It doesn't matter if you know what happened, right? Or who your real parents are. So in your question, what I tell people is, what did you see? Not what you think in your mind. And correct me if I'm wrong with from your perspective. You saw one child who's who's got some symptoms that we call sickness. And then at the same time, or a little bit later, same place, same symptoms in another child. right yeah roughly sure let's say that and you didn't see a virus you didn't see contagion you didn't see transmission of anything you just stopped two or more people or animals get the same symptoms same time same place yes but i would add the caveat that in because i think

about these things when my kids do get sick and in the most recent example the two kids go to the same school we got a call from the school one of the kids in your child's class tested positive for x y or z and went home with a fever we largely ignore that we're like we don't whatever okay fine but the kid was sick a day later and then we get sick a day after that and so we didn't really share the same environment and we did not seem to eat the same toxic thing so some of the explanations in that example it does feel like there's a cascade or a domino effect that goes beyond sharing the same environment and some of the conventional thoughts.

With a child, you're in the same place.

Sure. Once they're sick...

Right. So, same place, same time, same symptoms. But no contagion. Well, so you don't see a contagion. You see same symptoms, same time, same place, right? Now, the question, does that prove contagion? So, let me ask you this. You put 100 rats in the basement. Somebody, unbeknownst to you, puts rat poison. Next day, all 100 rats are dead. They bleed to death. Same symptoms, same time, same place. So was that a contagion?

No.

Right. They were poisoned. So in other words, it becomes clear that same time, same place, same symptoms does not prove contagion. You have to figure out some other way to prove it. Right? So here's a way to prove it. You take 100 people or 10 people, put them in a room, and then in one same room, you know, maybe one day after the other. And then in one set, you put three sick people, same symptoms. The other, everything is the same, and you put three well people. So the only variable in this is in one exposure, there were sick people, and the other exposure, there was well people. and you see if that the well people get sick i can tell you and daniel writus will tell you there's not one study that demonstrates that that's how it works and if you if you say there is or that is how it works then you're going to have to give me to study not your child or aunt bessie got sick sleeping next to uncle eric because you don't know what happened there all you know is that when you actually scientifically logically study it by the variable being the sick people it doesn't make contagion people don't that well people don't get sick now is it possible that humans plants animals share information or share experiences or signal to others especially in families that something may be happening or you should do something or something like that sure but as far as actual contagion of a microbe that has been disproven so even if i get it wrong why they they're one person after another got sick it doesn't mean there's contagion that has been disproven it just means i got a replacement theory incorrect and at this point in my life i'm very happy to just say to people i don't friggin know you know it's probably in your mind because the only people that actually have been able in these studies that daniel has 200 studies who do get sick is when they take a swab they say this came from somebody who has strep throat They swab it, and then the person gets sick, and then the next day, they'll say to them, oh, you know what? It turns out you got the swab from a healthy person, and then they get better. So as far as I can see, it happens in families.

So people are very sort of emotionally and psychologically and physically connected. It sometimes happens with shared exposure, like you paint the wallpaper with Paris green, which is arsenic, and then it outgasses, and then you get rashes, which you stink our chickenpox. And so that's what happened in that case. The reality is you can't make a blanket, here's what happens, because one case may be emotional, one case may be, you know, psychological, one case may be arsenic, one case may be, here's another case. So when you get lesions on your genitals, especially when women in the 1800s, they said they had syphilis and they treated it by giving them mercury. it turns out mercury concentrates in the vaginal secretions and then when a man would have intercourse with the woman with who's been taking mercury they would come in contact with the mercury in their vaginal secretions and mercury exposure on your on your penis gives you lesions which are mistaken for syphilis so the whole thing looks like contagion and in

fact you could say one person passed it to the next right but only because the person was a vehicle for mercury exposure so maybe there's you know something happens and the breath becomes too sulfurous and then you breathe that sulfurous breath and then you you your body eliminates it which is what we call sickness. So the sickness that you see is not the disease. That's the therapy for having been exposed, poisoned, or something. That's a major misconception. And it's easy to see because if I asked you, if you get a splinter in your finger, what happens next?

It gets inflamed and you get pus if you don't remove it.

Right. So is the pus the therapy or is it the disease? It's the body's response, which is trying to heal. Right. So it's the therapy for a splinter. Yes. I was taught in medical school, it means you have an infection, you should give the person the antibiotics. Which case, the splinter stays there, and now you've got chronic splinteritis. How about if you breathe in debris and chemtrails and smoke and all that, and then you get mucus and a cough and all that, Is that mucus and cough the disease, or is it the therapy? I do consider it the therapy. Right. But we're told it's bronchitis, and we give people cough medicine and antibiotics. You keep it in, and then you get chronic bronchitis and COPD. Here's another one. If you have a house, right, somebody puts stinky garbage in your house, right, what do you do? You should get it out of there. How?

no pushing it out the door how about put it put it in a bag well sure i assumed bag yeah

yeah so but i want to i i talk like a seven-year-old so you sweep it up into a bag you take the bag to the garage take it out to the curb right yes and that is the remediation for the garbage right yeah what about if somebody puts stinky garbage like vaccines in your house in your body called your house, or your house called your body. What does your body do? It puts it in a bag. A tumor, maybe. That's called a tumor. Yeah. Is the tumor the therapy, or is it the

disease? Apparently the therapy, but sometimes the therapy can get out of control, and you can die from the therapies, apparently, if your body overproduces. Apparently.

If they keep putting garbage in your house, and then you your garage gets full, and then the bedroom gets full, and then the kitchen gets full, then you have to move out of your house.

Yeah, yeah. And then the soul leaves the body.

It's still an attempt to remediate the garbage. Sure, sure.

I really like recontextualizing things like this. And you're great with the examples. It really blows my mind sometimes when I hear so many good ones. I don't want to get stuck on the contagion thing, but in your example with the rats, So when I think about the kids getting sick I think about toxicity What were they exposed to Your example with the rats is you put 100 rats in the basement You give rat poison, they all die Okay, my example is You have a rat in a different environment That gets exposed to a poison That rat ends up in my basement And now me and mama rat are also sick So it's like I think that the thing that made my kids sick Is maybe at their school That's my best assumption and then the kid comes home with the symptoms and we get sick too. Maybe that's emotional resonance. I'm open to that. I'm familiar with some of the work that props up that idea. I don't know if it makes a lot of logical sense to me as to why our reality would create emotional resonance because you would want your parents to be optimal to take care of a sick child, not to have a sick child emotionally resonant sickness. Why can't I emotionally resonant health to my sick kid? I should be the stronger one. Why don't you resonate with my health instead of the other way around?

So, again, I don't know the details of what happened. Sure. And besides, again, even if I get it wrong what happened, it doesn't mean there was contagion because we've already disproven that. But one thing that comes to mind is, so somebody says, I sent my child to school and they got sick. First of all, from my point of view, The definition of school is where children go to get indoctrinated into lies. And any healthy child who's got any sense... will make themselves sick to try to get out of going there. Okay. So then they come home and the parents don't get it. And so they think of clever, interesting ways of making the parents sick so that maybe they'll say, you know what? Maybe we shouldn't send our child to school because they keep getting sick and then we get sick. And so that may be what it takes to get you to realize that sending a child to school is a horrible decision.

Fair enough. I mean, in our example, we go to an alternative school. My kid's four and really likes it because they don't have any kids in their life and they ask to go on the weekends. But it doesn't matter. This is an isolated example. But let's look more at gel water in the body. the state of the gel water in the body because if we're going to talk about what actually makes us healthy you know most people just want to be healthy I don't necessarily care what makes me sick I want to just be sick less often I want to have less my body healing me from all the toxins that are in me but talk to us about this because Dr. Gerald Pollack's been here then you apply that to the body and to health. And it just seems so right. But I also hear a lot of people talking about ingesting the right water. And I'm not exactly sure that ingesting good water, obviously you don't want to add toxins to your body, but I'm not sure that there's an exact one-to-one correlation between the water you drink and the gel state water in your cells. So what's your protocol for improving health through a focus on improving the gel state water in our bodies

so number one i don't have protocols i hear people's individual situations actually i don't do this either anymore i don't do anything about this anymore we we have a clinic and we have six doctors who do do this but i don't do it anymore but but we don't work from protocols protocols are are for suckers basically okay sorry uh process but here's here's a way to answer answer that question or one possible way and it goes back to the thing i was saying is how surprising that nobody in medical school asked certain questions so sometime around third grade in school we learn that matter exists in three phases right solid liquid gas yes so there's solid copper molten liquid copper gaseous copper and same with lead or gold or anything so with water there's ice water or steam right so i was an er doctor for a while mostly to make money while i was building up my practice and so i see people shot and bayoneted and stabbed etc Now, I had been told in medical school that inside our cells, so we're not talking about the blood, we're talking about in the cells, is that it's 70% water, and you can prove it with a spectrophotometer, okay? So, I see the people stab, and you know how many people I saw water squirting out of them? Zero. Zero. So, that's obvious, right? Everybody knows it. So, I wonder why in medical school I didn't ask, excuse me, but which phase is the water in in your cells? Yeah. Well, it's not ice, right? And it's not steam, because that's ridiculous. So, it's water. That's what they told us. So, the first problem is, does it feel like you have liquid water sloshing around in your body? It does not. And then, second of all, how come it doesn't squirt out when you stick it with a pin?

Good question.

Right, but nobody asked that question. So I start wondering. It turns out that none of the water in our bodies is liquid water. It's in this phase you're talking about, which is like jello or gel phase, fourth phase, easy one, lots of names. And just like a jello, you can stick a jello with a pin and nothing squirts out. and in fact when the water goes from a gel to a liquid like if you're the water in it's around your knee if it becomes liquid we say you have a problem with your knee because it's all swollen you have water on the knee they say right well you always had water but it wasn't liquid water So the problem is you've become liquefied now. So that means that, so what does a gel water do? It carries a charge. And so that was the next thing. So if you ask medical doctors, is the body an electromagnetic field? Is it charged? They say no. Okay. How do you measure the health of a heart? Well, you do an EKG. What is that measuring? The electrical activity of the heart. How do you measure the health of the brain? you do an EEG. What is that measuring? The electrical activity of the brain. Wait a minute, I thought you just told me that it's not all about the electromagnetic flow through a living being. That electromagnetic flow arises out of this fourth phase of water. And liquid water doesn't carry a charge so that's why if you if your water is not in this healthy gel phase you're like a low battery and that's what we call not feeling well low vitality and eventually getting sick now to your question is it true that drinking structured water or gel water immediately goes to form a gel in you, the answer is no. And so that's actually kind of ridiculous. Right. But what we do know is that certain waters that carry a kind of a charge, which you can measure with a voltmeter, actually seem to be able to heal people from a lot of things. So, for instance, the water at Lourdes, which has a very particular charge, and there's something like 10,000 cases of spontaneous healing, so-called, from people who are bathed in or drank water from Lourdes.

And there's other places like that. So it seems to be that exposure to certain kind of water has a beneficial effect on the health of people. And whether it's because it helps them create this fourth phase or helps the charge, I don't think anybody really knows. but we do know that certain waters have a healing effect and certain waters have a more toxic effect especially if you dissolve chemicals in the water you know fluoride and chlorine and you know i would never drink stuff like that right i'm lucky enough to be on a well here but it's a

well in florida and florida is bad about a lot of toxic runoffs it makes its way to our water so Then I get a little paranoid about the water and I import Mountain Valley in the big glass jugs. I mean, it's the best workout I get all week is trying to take a big glass five-gallon jug and set it on top of the thing without creating a disaster. But I do it because I feel like the water is pretty clean and it doesn't touch plastic. But when you get to the whole house filter level, everything I see, I'm not in love with because it seems like it strips out the minerals. I know enough to be like reverse osmosis is not the way. What do you think about trying to get the best water in your house from a well system where you don't feel confident that the well is super clean?

Right. And all of these are problems which often don't have perfect solutions. the first thing i would say is after you know 30 years of studying water which doesn't mean that i'm right but and reading and and investigating just about anybody who's who i think has something to say about it what i would say is the best water to consume or expose your body to is water that emerges from the earth on its own power therefore not a well that you have to drill in and get the water that is not ready on its own to come out of the ground. And so that's the water that I drink. And we have a spring where the water is continually coming out of the ground on its own power. And I just go there and get glass jars and fill those up, and that's what we drink. with you know if I didn't have access to that I would probably buy it and Mountain Valley is one there's other ones that are also good and I would put it in the glass jars the problem of bathing then is still so you got this water with the well and so what do you do I mean So there's no great answer to that, but I use some sort of a carbon charcoal filter, and then I put it through a structuring device that makes it into a vortex, and then I put it through a shower head that makes it into another vortex, and that is the water that we use for bathing and showering, but we don't drink that water. now that's a big rigmarole and you know i've been working on this for you know i don't know how long and i'm sure not everybody either wants to do that or can do it but that's what i would

suggest for the best water that i know i like it it sounds like i'm three quarters of the way there with the structuring the vortexing like i've got some victor shawberger books back here i've i'm familiar with the literature that supports vortexing he was the one who really emphasized

water to drink has to come out of the earth on its own power yes and the vortexing is really

interesting i just i guess i'm like comparing vortexing to the level of toxicity of the water i'm like can a vortex really clean it that fast and then you'll see these products like i have a big garden outside we have a thing on the end of the hose that vortexes the water and it just seems like it's not enough like i have a jug that'll vortex some water i don't know help me get over the mental issue that i feel like it's just not doing enough or maybe not vortexing enough to have the effect i wanted to have the cleaning effect yeah i mean again with what i would call

dirty water we put it through a filter first sure and then we put it through two different vortexes but at the end of the day you know for me again it comes back to believing i guess in observation and simple experiments so you come to a point where that you can't see whether it's good enough or good water right you can't see it you can't taste it you can't feel it you can't do anything So then what I've done over the years, and I did this with my aqua deus showerhead, which goes through six chambers and it makes this sort of negative pressure vortex. And I have a huge garden. I had one in Napa before I moved. And I divided a strawberry bed that was about 50 feet into two sections, 25 feet each. And our problem was we lived in San Francisco and we had a garden in Napa. So it was an hour and a half drive. And so we'd go once or twice a week. And what would happen is the strawberries would rot before we'd get there. We went once a week. And so that was the problem I was looking at. So with one 25-foot bed, I watered them with this Aquadeus showerhead, this vortexing. And the other, I just did it with plain sort of well water that came out of the ground. The difference was unmistakable in the health and growth of the plants. But more importantly, the strawberries from the vortexed one didn't rot. And the ones from the vortex, not vortexed one did. And we could tell that because when we go to pick the strawberries, they were still like, And I ended up, my tentative conclusion was, the health of the strawberry came because it had a robust gel. If it starts getting dehydrated, then it shrinks, and then the molds start decomposing it, which was what was happening on the normal strawberries. So my conclusion was watering it with this Aquadea showerhead vortexing thing somehow increased the gel phase in the plant, in the strawberry, and that was good because then we could eat them once a week. We could harvest them once a week. So that's how I sorted that problem out because there's no way to know otherwise. You're just guessing.

Makes sense. So when it comes to your house, where is the vortexing in the chain? It's right after filtration, before it hits the pipes of the house, or is it at the output end of the faucet?

So you also have to realize that just because of my situation in life, people give me stuff. Sure. Because then they want me to endorse it or talk about it or something. So, I have stuff that most people... just wouldn't want to do so i do want to do it i'm ready okay so we we at town water that's the only that in fact even though we live it's in a rural place but they don't florida right but it's just regular town water so when it comes into the house there's a a device that's sort of taped onto the first pipe before it goes anywhere that energetically scrubs the water clean now does it do anything i have no idea some guy gave it to me germany had all these studies he said all you do is just tape it on your thing and it'll last the rest of your life okay so that's the first thing then all that water then goes into a pure effects three-stage carbon filter right and then it comes out of there and then it goes through a copper pipe that's about this long and the internal there's an internal baffling system in the copper pipe that makes it go through a vortex and these people gave me that to put so there's scrubbing it you know scrubbing the bad energy getting rid of the stuff in the water and again we're not drinking this water but and then we vortex it and then when it comes out it comes out through one of these shower heads that I just set. And then it goes through to, there's a water station that remineralizes and then puts it through a quartz vortex. But we don't even drink that water. We only drink water that we collect from a spring in glass bottles. And then even that water, I stir it with a wand.

Man, it is a rabbit hole to go down and it becomes this thing where you can get it mostly right, But then those last percentage points, it just requires more and more meddling. And I'm also not that handy. So when it comes to these devices, it's like I can't even really call a plumber to be like, hey, I need you to put this on here. And don't ask me any questions about why. I'm not explaining it.

I'm not either. But the plumbers, they can do this easily.

Fair, fair. I guess they'll take the money either way, even if they think I'm crazy.

Again, I don't know that that's the best water. I'm just, again, people gave me stuff, and this is what seems to me to be the best I can do. But what I really do is I collect water from a spring that comes out of the earth on its own. It's in a very sort of remote place. I put it in glass bottles. I stir it with an analemone, and that's what we drink. Fair.

And this, again, going back to the idea that maybe that's not a one-to-one correlation between the water you drink and the gel state. water in your body. Of course, the strawberry anecdote helps to suggest that it definitely has an effect, but what other things in our lives will help us increase the charge or the gel state structure of our water? I mean, I know grounding in sunlight, but is there anything else that you would add to the stack of focusing on optimizing the gel state water in our body?

actually jerry did a very good experiment that very clearly answers that question and so here's the experiment you take a beaker of water and you suspend a horizontal hydrophilic tube in the water imagine a glass tube except it's hydrophilic suspended horizontally in a beaker of water right okay and then because of the interaction of water and a hydrophilic surface you will form a gel layer inside the tube and so that's always negatively charged and that pushes the so-called positive charges into the middle where the liquid water is they repel each other and start the water in the tube moving So you get a flow in the tube just because of the interaction of water and a hydrophilic surface. And you can measure the velocity of the water going through the tube. Right? You with me? So, if you get something that increases the velocity, that's because it made more gel, i.e. more charge. Right? Okay. That's the only way it could happen. So the thicker that the gel is, the more robust the gel, the stronger the charge, the faster the velocity. So you take Take the beaker, measure the charge, and then you shine the sunlight on it, increases the flow, the velocity. So you can say sunlight increases the formation of gels in water. You put the beaker on the Earth, directly on the Earth, and it increases the velocity, meaning it increases the gel layer. You put your hands on it, increases the velocity, meaning it increases the gel layer, so laying on of hands. You put your dog next to it, at least most dogs, and that increases the velocity. You put your cell phone, lean it up against it, and the water will stop moving because This radiation or the effect of a cell phone inhibits the formation of gel water. And so this gel water is what makes, it's the same with the capillaries in our body. We have tubes that are hydrophilic. We have liquid blood, you know, that has stuff in it. It forms a gel that makes the movement of the blood. That's where the movement of the blood comes.

And if the blood isn't moving up your body, we call that congestive heart failure. So if somebody comes to me and says, how do I make myself have congestive heart failure? I say just stick your cell phone in your pocket all the time and don't move and don't get out in the sun and don't grind to the earth and get rid of your dog and cat and eat crappy food and drink poison water. and you got a good shot at making yourself have heart failure.

So I know you got to get out of here pretty quickly, but tell people about the new biology clinic and Dr. Cowan's garden. We got to mention these. These are two resources I'm very thankful are out there. Tell people about both of them.

So we started, you know, what's the best food and foods that are able to be mail-ordered and grown by small farmers in the right way. And I've said for years, you know, like squirrels, they collect nuts, they bury them, they sprout, and then they dig them up and eat them. No squirrel would eat an unsprouted nut. I didn't know that. That's why they scratch their head because they're trying to remember where they bury their nuts. So we sell sprouted nuts and things like this. So we sell the best food we can get to help people out who don't necessarily want to do it themselves. So that's Dr. Cowan's garden. And then we've tried to look for the best medicines, the medicines that are not the sorcery medicines, but medicines right from nature. That's the other meaning of pharmacy, which is essentially gifts from nature. And that's Dr. Tom Cowan. And then we started a online clinic called the New Biology Clinic. And there's six doctors and, you know, tuning fork and movement and food and, you know, emotional freedom stuff. And we just work with people who are not doing well and want our help. And we all have the same

way of looking at life as I was describing today. I love it. That's been, I haven't actually used it very much yet because we just play to where it lies around here usually but it's been my my biggest problem talking to alternative health i hate the term but alternative health people is i like you know most of them are retired like yourself i'm like well look i like the the tom cowen way of doing things but he's he's retired he's not taking new clients and this would happen over and over again so i would say there needs to be a network or a resource of actual practicing doctors that think along these lines that can help in times where it feels like it's a little beyond my control and I want something else.

Yeah, that's the new biology corner.

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. So, one other thing on their website I was going to ask about is Strophanthus. It gets its own category. It's separate from the shop category. It gets its own line item. I mean, that's the medicine

that I'm known for. It's the heart medicine. It's the as the natives called it the gift from paradise so it was at risk of being lost and i'm part of a small group of people who are trying to make sure that this really amazing medicine for the

heart and for other things but doesn't get lost i love that and it when it comes to things like the vortex scene a lot of these things are also these physical products are also on the website yeah right awesome well thank you so much for your time enjoy the rest of your day it's been a pleasure thanks greg well aloha higher side chatters looks like i am still dressed for island time but this was great long time coming really happy to scratch a name off my elusive guest list and it was bizarre too because dr cowan had written me back when i requested he come on and he had said no and then I came back saying hey man I have read your books I'm pretty well educated on your perspective and he still said no and now several years after that a PR person of some kind reached out and pitched him and I immediately was like no pitch necessary yes here's the important details about the show like how long it is well I'm sure you noticed this one came in a little short and it's always frustrating to get on a scheduled call and hear i have a commitment after this so i can only give you 90 minutes it's like but the show's 120 minutes so knowing that either say yes or no but don't try to change the format of my show but these things happen and when it's someone i really want to talk to i guess i have no choice but to be flexible i am happy with what we ended up with though these medical shows they're important but they can be tough for me they were way easier a few years ago when it was all so hypothetical but my dad died of cancer which is one of dr cowan's books and my good friend gordon died of essentially a heart attack which is dr cowan's other big book so his work recontextualizes the two main killers of the people i love and both of them tried to heal their conditions through alternative means and it did not work out in gordon's case very much so from dr cowen's specific perspective so let's just say i'm coming into these alternative medical shows with a bit more real world baggage than usual where i'm a bit more raw and probably easy to trigger i guess because it's not some abstract thing like a false flag that happened halfway across the country. It's very much wrapped up in real-world pain, and the stakes are high. I don't want anyone to get bad medical advice, but ultimately we all follow the advice that feels right, and I'm only here to help guests deliver an alternative perspective, and then you decide how it feels to you. I tried to demonstrate to Dr. Cowan that I'm pretty well-educated on his perspective and the work of his colleagues that I know he respects but I still have questions and

want to be able to get into the nuances of some of those things but it felt a little bit like the attitude was look guy this is what it is you either get it or you don't which is fine but not exactly helpful again though you know I wouldn't have talked about him as much as I have if I didn't see the value I wouldn't have read several of his books and I wouldn't have listened to Hours and hours and hours of his lectures. Like, I'm in, okay? I'm a fan. I spent about $300 in his store, actually, right after we recorded this. Mainly because he offers kitchen staples like olive oil and hot sauces and apple cider vinegar with organic ingredients in glass bottles with structured water. I mean, this is exactly what I want, right? And it's so impossible to find. Well, not impossible, clearly. You can find it one place. but yet i can't help but feel like some of his responses to my questions specifically around contagion were a little bit dismissive i mean let's just get into it this is a guy who went to duke university got his traditional medical license and played the game for 40 years so it's a little rich to say that in my own example maybe my daughter just hates school and is making herself sick to avoid it look she's four but she goes to a very alternative school that aligns with our principals and she loves going there. As if I would make her go somewhere that she hated, I actually wouldn't, but that's just a strange answer. You know, I've been wrestling with this contagion idea since I was first made aware of it enough to even doubt it. And I do think viruses are actually misidentified, not the cause of illness. There's a huge difference when you look at bacteria and viruses. They both are invisible to the naked eye but it goes a lot deeper than that i think bacteria is real and bacteria causes illness but viruses probably aren't and that's the crux of vaccination we don't vaccinate against bacteria so to me the distinction is important and i'm also open to the idea that what we call viruses might relate to or be a bi product of illness. The exosome perspective of Dr. Kaufman is very convincing. If you only see these things in a magnified tissue sample of someone who is sick, and we know the body does self-heal, then how could you ever know if these things we call viruses are the cause of illness or an effect of the body trying to carry toxins away from the healthy cells? It's a nuanced distinction. And I'm even open to the sympathetic resonance thing. But again, my question would be, why don't I resonate healthy to my kids along with mom? Why do we get a call that she had a

classmate who got very sick and then 12 hours later gets very sick? Like if it's sympathetic resonance, you would think the healthier person could resonate healing or health to the person who's sick especially a child and not the whole class got sick either but the girls and her specific little group they don't eat anything at school so it's not that either and i'm pretty open-minded about all this stuff i expect rockefeller medicine to lie but my lived experience is that when my unvaccinated raw milk drinking kids have been around other sick kids even when they don't know it and certainly aren't conditioned to be worried about it they end up sick in like four or five examples I have. Cold spread. It should be okay to talk about that. But Dr. Cowan is just one of these guys that does not have much grace for anyone who hasn't figured out exactly what he has, even though he did what he needed to do to keep a medical license for 40 years. And that's a nice career. And now he's 70 and seems to be an amazing health. And it's a nice time to be able to be outspoken. And I know he talked a lot about giving alternative advice along the way, but a person who worked their whole career within a traditional paradigm with a traditional degree now says my four-year-old is probably getting sick because school is such a terrible place. Easy for you to say now, Tom. It's like running a marathon and then telling people at the starting line, you know, you should probably skip. I didn't skip. I ran, but you should probably skip. And I'm open to any problems with this completely being me. Like I said, I've got a lot of baggage and emotional rawness around medical situations like this, but I didn't really go back and listen to it. I'm just relying on my very shaky memory, which is another thing. I know the story is important when it comes to chronic illnesses or lasting suboptimal conditions like high blood pressure. But just to find a person's one bad habit and say, well, that's it. That doesn't exactly feel right. And the response could be, well, you're in denial. You don't want to change. You don't want to accept that X, Y, or Z might be related to smoking weed as heavily as you do. Okay. But it seems like many people with very bad habits live well into their 90s if they have the right mental attitude many of our political or management class names we know drink cocktails with every meal breakfast lunch and dinner and they live to be 90 i think because they don't have any stress or worries so if marijuana is a stress management tool i use as opposed to alcohol is there no argument for it having some positive effects on

me? My sinus issues seem to come and go for weeks at a time, but I've smoked consistently every day for close to 20 years now. It very much feels like my sinus issues are caused by some less consistent factor in my life. But if you're going to say it could be drywall or the air conditioning or Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, it's like, again, yeah, I know our lives are full of toxins. But what are you going to do? Check out his store. It's got a lot of great products. And I probably will even seek out a doctor from the new biology clinic if we even need a regular doctor. I do see it as my best available option in a lot of scenarios, but I guess I'm just saying that I'm open-minded about a wide variety of perspectives on why we get sick and all that. But the first half was good, and the second half really got great. I never really considered questioning the oxygen thing, but there's some really interesting stuff in there when you consider oxygen as just a charge carrier for the electrical beings that we are. We talked about the spiritual implications of science and conjuring reality and the sorcery of medicine. I like all that language regarding the dark arts of medicine. We talked about Rudolf Steiner. and General Cosmology, I asked him what Steiner got wrong, and we got into Dr. Cowan's perspective that the Earth doesn't move. Obviously, we've heard that from other guests. Decide for yourself. We talked about the power of belief in navigating toxicity and a couple more of my unanswered questions on the mysteries of health. I loved it. Get the seven-day free trial without the credit card. Check it all out. in higher side news I had a nice refreshing trip to Maui and Maui is fine it's an island it's kind of like a cruise ship where you're stuck there so the price gouging gets pretty wild it's an interesting biome my wife and I got off the resort more than anyone in our group of 20 that we were there with some of the waterfalls are incredible we hiked a couple miles up to a bamboo forest which was really memorable. But it's sort of like the topography of California with the plant life of Florida. And both of these places are more accessible to anyone in the US and offer about 70% of what Maui does for 50% of the cost. It was more about seeing certain people for me. And on that note, mission accomplished. My socialization tank has been replenished. Plus lots of grounding and forest bathing and sunshine all the important things right and while I was gone my guest spot on Danny Jones has aired I'm sure many of you have come across it by now I've gotten a ton of really

good feedback we talked for over three hours and he really didn't give me much to go on about what he might want to get into beforehand so I just kind of came with my own agenda about what I thought would be important but also unexpected to communicate and generally people seem to get something out of it i'm not a primary researcher spoiler alert so i try to just do what i do and highlight the people i think are best for whatever a given subject might be many of them have already written me to say thanks for the shout out so i do think that the interview has been pretty well circulated. If you haven't heard it, find Danny Jones on YouTube. Help me blow it up as much as we can so that maybe I end up being someone he can call if he needs a local to fill in a hole in the schedule. I'm a cheap date. No flight or hotel required. And I thought it was fun. His studio is super nice. The lobby is crazy. He's got a kitchen and theater room there that are nicer than most homes. I know many people are skeptical of his popularity, and I've made comments along those lines of my own. But after my experience there, I think it just demonstrates how valuable a high production value is. I won't ever really be able to do my interviews in person, but I try to do the best remote interviews that can be done, all without sponsored ads. I think going to do pretty good. But Danny did tell me he has signed to a talent agency. So I think a lot of the resources come from that agreement. I would guess that it's a classic situation that once you sign, the company pours resources into you and sees how big they can blow it up so they can increase their share of the pie. I don't think it has to be much more complicated than that. And he might be independently wealthy. I don't know. Also, when I started, it wasn't a guarantee guarantee that there was money in podcasting so once that was established it's a lot easier to come to the table from day one trying to build your brand because you know on the other side there can be money it just wasn't that obvious in 2010 I would be kind of curious to know if Danny Jones and Jesse Michaels and Julian Dory were all signed to the same agency or not because they do seem to share a lot of similar qualities but it doesn't mean any of them are bad guys or have any intention beyond making a good living bringing interesting guests to a wide audience i do the same thing i have the same goals but just a slightly different approach why so serious life is short but help me make that appearance a good one because i think it's already brought more people into checking out thc than anything else i've done in a long time and it helps the entire archive of guests and it's a very small thing you can help me with to have a decent

cascade of benefits all right well we also like to go over the review of the last episode which is the episode with dan waits of world astrology report well it is holding strong at a 4.8 even after a long gap usually more time equals a lower average but this is a strong one and i agree it was good i felt good leaving for a week with that being my latest off Dan is great. Astrology is one of those topics that, while some people have not incorporated it into their worldview, for those who have, there's always something to talk about or updates to give, and I'd love to keep Dan in the lineup, and a 4.8 shows I'm not alone. and finally the meetup calendar Hiresidemeetups.com find like-minded locals over a meal or a couple of drinks anyone can make an event podcasting is such a solitary experience this is my way of trying to help you make it not that way on deck we got July 19th St. Paul Minnesota at Blackstack Brewing July 20th Oaks Pennsylvania Arnold's Family Fun Center July 28th 8th, Elgin, Illinois at Side Street Studios, and then August 8th, Rico's Public House in Pullman, Washington, a Higher Soup meetup, and then August 9th, we have Trails Cafe in Los Angeles, August 15th, Los Ranchos, New Mexico, Hops Brewery, and that's about it. I love it. Again, so easy to make an event. It's free. You don't have to overthink it. Just pick any local gathering place and put it out there. Let me call it out a time or two on air And people should go to the website To get more details in RSVP And good things happen Alright, well that's the show Just because I came away with a few criticisms Doesn't mean I wouldn't put Tom Cowan up there As one of the best we have I'm super fortunate to have gotten this one on the books And I hope you had a good time with it I've done my part Your move, Contagion Model, Cheerleaders, Sickness System supporters and sourcers of medical science your fucking move sorry you can't sleep tonight

mama says you're scared i hear well i've checked in every corner and promised there's nothing to fear well at least not in your room kid it might be the only place you're safe So you might as well relax now There's much more to fear when you're awake The real monsters are out running everything They ain't waiting under your bed And they're way worse than you can imagine So don't be scared of your own head You can't be bothered by the dark in this life Cause no night light's bright enough For when you really see the world out there So at least in here be tough Sure the house sounds can be scary But it's just a little noise Wait until the stresses they put you under Eat up all your dreams and joy Sure I'll check inside the closet And we can crack the door a little bit But you're worried about the wrong thing This is as good as it gets The real monsters are out running everything They ain't waiting under your bed And they're way worse than you can imagine So don't be scared of your own head You can't be bothered by the dark in this life Cause no night light's bright enough For when you really see the world out there So at least in here be tough Now I gotta say goodnight and sweet dreams Daddy needs some sleep as well Tomorrow you'll be playing grocery store While I'll be walking through a well-engineered hell So don't you worry yourself about it You're well-protected here tonight Insulated from a thousand different nightmares That get very real and I think you'll be alright The real monsters are out running everything They ain't waiting under your bed And they're way worse than you can imagine So don't be scared of your own head You can't be bothered by the dark in this life Cause no nightlight's bright enough For when you really see the world out there So at least in here be tough