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The Joe Rogan Experience.

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Hey!

Oh! Hey! What's up, bros?

So your boy Tommy was awesome. He was great. He was really cool. Yeah, I actually listened on the way out to that one. He's really fun. Tommy Lee's fun. He's like a big kid, man. He is. A big kid. Yeah, like a 15-year-old that just never, you know, had to grow up. All the way up because he got famous when he was 18 exactly so he really never had to grow up He just stayed Tommy Lee. Yeah, I'm glad you finally got to have him on. It was very cool

So it was good. It's weird that he's really in a bonsai trees. Oh big time Crazy. He trims them up. He's got like 100 year old yards. Where do you even find them at? His uh, you make them yourself. His yard he sets up like a whole like Zen garden type of thing It's pretty wild, but he's he's been into those and he likes to trim them up and you know It's pretty, pretty wild. He's just, he's a positive energy, nice guy. Like he's never, never been in my, you know, what do you want to say? Interactions with him? Never. He's never been a dick. Never. Never. He seemed cool. He was cool to work for.

Well, I only worked, I met him rather when you were working with him, when you were his bodyguard. And then this is the other time I met him. So he's super cool. Nice. Good.

I remember him honking a horn on his boat with his dick. I remember him with his fucking huge dick with Pamela Anderson.

He's got a lot of advantages in this life, doesn't he? Good Lord. Good Lord. God damn. His own person. And one of the greatest drummers of all time. That was like one of the first sex tapes. Oh, yeah. That was probably the first. Yeah, for sure. That might be the first one. That might be the first one. Yeah. Did allow them to get famous afterwards. Well, they were already famous. That was why it was crazy. Both of them are super famous. But I mean, allow them to catapult them into a different stratosphere. Right. Well, anytime one of them celebrities is dating another celebrity, it's like their fucking superpowers unite. Yeah. They get that old stone. He was with Heather Locklear, too, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was a fun dude. The trees thing is wild, though. I didn't know that these people, they have like 100-year-old trees, 200-year-old trees, 300-year-old bonsai trees. and they pass them down through generations. They have paperwork so you know who's the guy who first started the tree. And they've got these trees that are several hundred years old and they're this big. And they're in a pot. What are you supposed to do with that? It's all like an artistic thing. They're trimming them in certain patterns and every time they try to grow, you trim them down and they just tighten up and it makes a weird form.

It's very strange. They're pretty cool looking, actually.

I wonder if the tree likes it, though. She's like, hey, motherfucker. I'm trying to grow. I'm 300 years old. I'm 16 inches tall. This is retarded.

I think for him, though, he's had such a crazy high-paced life. It was the yin to the yang. You know what I mean? That's how he relaxes. I loved hearing it.

It sounded perfect. I was like, oh, you found a great thing.

And you see he's a gearhead, too, like you.

So you guys had a little bonding on the cars. The first cars he bought. He bought an old Corvette. He got a fucking supercharger put on it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's a maniac. He's definitely a maniac, but he's a very nice, I mean, very great dude. Rock and roll, man.

Oh, yeah. The guy was the drummer for Motley Crue. I can't even, at 18, can't even imagine what that must have been like. Must have been insane.

A lot of these guys, they don't want to stop touring, all these rock and roll stuff. Why would they want to? I mean, to see that adrenaline. But some of them maybe should, though. Some of them, I saw some clips. Who the fuck was he? David Lee Roth? No, I think it was the guy from ACDC. Brian Johnson. I don't know if it went that great.

Yeah, it's bad. It's pretty bad. Dude, ACDC, one of my favorite all-time bands, and Brian Johnson's struggling. I mean, with that screaming style he has, it's hard to keep that going.

How do you keep that going? Like, no acting or vocal coach would ever tell you you could sing like that.

I don't think so.

You just can't sing like that.

You can't fucking scream like that. I wonder if they're getting, like, 60-year-old groupies. 100%. Really? 100%. feeding that flame lit

they've been keeping that flame lit since the 80s of course but do they have like new groupies though of course you know there's no way they know like doesn't what's what is his name Jesus Christ Rolling Stones Mick Jagger well I know Mick Jagger has a kid that's really young Like Mick Jagger just had a kid like really recently. Really? Yeah. He's like in his 80s. I was thinking of someone else though. Someone else is another. Oh, there's a bunch of guys like that. Like Al Pacino just had him. Oh, yeah, that's true. True, true, true. A lot of older guys like that, they wind up having kids. Like, they're still obviously getting young chicks to fuck them. It's kind of irresponsible, though.

It's crazy. Having a kid at 80 is crazy. You hope he's going to take care of the kid, but maybe it's the young chick that wants the kid.

Of course, but it's still, if you did it on purpose, if you're the guy and you did it on purpose, that's wild. You don't even want to be around. I'm just going to have this kid at 80. It's more important that my genes pass on, that I'd be there for my child. Think about that.

By the time you're 85, you're probably gone.

Yeah. Yeah, by the time you're 85. Yeah, you won't even see your kid go to school. You'll be five years old, and the kid will be five years old, and the dad dies.

Maybe the wife wanted it. Well, sure. You leave something behind type of thing.

Look, maybe it's better than not doing it. Maybe. But also, if you're a fucking rational 80-year-old, like, bro, you barely have time to take care of yourself. You can't even keep your own shit in your pants. You're going to raise a kiss. Both of them wear diapers. You're going to take the kid to the park and run around? What, changing the kid's diapers and yours? Bro, you're going to break a hip, and your toddler is going to be screaming, and no one will hear it. Right. And you're going to be alone with them at the park, and you're going to be lying there bleeding internally from a broken hip, and the kid's going to walk off.

Five years old, yeah.

Three-year-old wander off, and you're 80. That's nuts.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, by the way, Longo, you got him upset because he's like, man, I've been feeling

good. He's like, you know, I'm at the gym every day. And I go, fucking, I turn on Rogan and he's bitching about being 58. I'm like, what the fuck? He's 68. Oh. So basically, he's like, what the fuck? He's complaining about being 58. Ray's really 68.

He looks great. He looks great. He fucking looks real good. He looks great. He's got dark ass hair. Right? I know, right? What the fuck? He don't have Ronald Reagan hair.

He's looking good. That's great.

And then he asked me about a, what the fuck did he ask me?

Because Ronald Reagan had dark hair deep into his 70s. My shit is all white. If I had hair and I grew it out, it would be all gray. Really? Yeah, mostly. It's like my face. My stubble, it's at least 60% gray. Yeah, mine is all gray now. It's weird. There's something about a gray beard that's like, you're just saying, fuck it.

Yeah, that's why I just started trimming it down. And I was like, yo, this is ridiculous.

Yeah, I don't like the way it looks. When I see myself in the mirror with a gray beard, I'm like, who the fuck are you? Yeah. You're supposed to have a dark beard.

For sure.

I had a dark beard most of my life.

I'm looking at pictures from a couple years ago, and it's dark. Now it's all gray. Like, what the fuck happened? It sucks.

They had a thing on A&E with me and George, and they showed a clip of me and you talking. We both had hair. Crazy, isn't it?

It looked crazy compared to now. You're just slowly slipping into the grave. We're looking good, though. We're holding it down as long as we can. Yes, compared to people that don't take care of themselves and also compared to people from the past. Oh, that's what I'm saying. They didn't have TRT. They didn't have FFs. They didn't even understand. They didn't have vitamins. Don't watch life therapy.

Think about in the 80s, what 40-year-olds look like in the 80s.

Right. Yeah, they was fucking good. And I think martial arts also helps. Like, we just had an event, Henzo's 30th anniversary for his academy in the U.S., and they invited all the OGs. So, you know, we were – I've seen guys I hadn't seen in decades. Got a fifth degree? Yeah, I got a fifth. Got a sixth degree? Damn, damn. Congratulations. Look at that. That's amazing. And, I mean, we were talking, like, almost everybody looked good. Everybody looked good. That's awesome.

And there was 50 guys, 60 guys there. The thing is, you got to maintain, and if you don't maintain, you're never getting it back. Yeah, you don't you don't you can't like it at 50. You can't take three years off like it's just too hard to get back And if you never worked out before and you're like 46 and you're starting now That's a hard road man. You never worked out before like first of all go slow Yeah, yeah break everything well, that's the problem

People want to jump right in and then you get hurt or get busted up a little bit and then you just Defeats, you know what I mean? You're like fuck this

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If you're lifers like us, you just got to be smart about your training. I got young savages I don't fucking I choose who I want to roll with You don't gotta be that guy to fucking Just slay everybody on the mat You're gonna break

You'll break It's like you have a Corvette and you take it around the track You can only do so many laps Every car, even Formula 1 Cars that cost 100 million dollars They break You can only go so far, so fast, so long Before you blow a rod Some shit goes sideways Everybody I know has had surgery. Everybody.

For me, when I'm in Philly with the crew, Brady and Piper and them, it's hard being in a room with these guys because they want to grab you and do moves on you.

And I'm like, oh, chill out, man.

Let's grab one of the younger guys.

Bro, the last guy you want grabbing you is Brady.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ. He gets on top of you and just starts squeezing you. Oh, Willow grab him. That fucking fight with Joaquin Buckley, I was like, holy shit, man. Yeah, he ragged out. yeah bro it was whole it was the the level of domination was like shocking i was like okay so this is his best form like this is him at his best at his best is fucking terror he's a little inconsistent like he's the morales fight was tough but when and he said it's like his head wasn't in it but when his fucking head is in it and he's like dialed in for sure man he's like when he

grabs you bro like he'll squeeze you and you just start making like a little noise like

What he did to Leon and what he did to Joaquin, you're like, holy shit, man. What is that like? That was beautiful. Beautiful. As explosive an athlete as Joaquin is. The flow, like everywhere they went, he was just following them one step ahead. It was like, no escape.

Yeah, yeah. He don't want you out, man.

And then smush.

Just smush. His back is so big, he just gets so much coverage over you when he's on top of you.

And the balance. It's just like so many steps ahead of them on the ground. that the one time it really looked like a cardio drill like he was on top like he was just it would look like he was just getting like placid face yeah super calm i believe where they were

he wasn't allowed to do the 12 to 6 elbows oh that's so crazy that's where i right or wrong something like that I think Jersey's still like that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of places that are like that, man. It's so dumb. That are still using the old unified rules. It's so dumb. Like, that rule doesn't make any sense. It would be nice if they would just... I get it if it's, you know, soccer kicks. Okay, you want to have a debate? But if you can elbow this way and this way and this way, but you can't go this way, that's just retarded. And everybody else is doing it. So why would you not do it? It doesn't make sense. And you have to remember what state you're in. That's the problem. So, like, when you're in the fight and you're on instinct and the guy's like this, but it's wide open for a 12-6 elbow, you're supposed to throw it. That's what it's for.

Yeah, for safety's sake and the referee's ability to make a decision have consistency in the rule set.

It's just another elbow. It doesn't make any sense. Like, this one elbow that's outlawed, that's crazy. Right.

I don't know why I have no idea. You can knee the hell out of somebody in their face. You can run and jump and knee them in the face.

Oh, God. And some of the craziest knockouts we've ever seen come from that. Like we were just talking about Masvidal versus Askren the other day. Oh, man.

Hey, he's supposed to be wrestling again. Oh, but how? Is that real? Is that a good idea? No. I saw him talking the other day. Yeah, that freaked me out when I heard that. When he was talking, he was coughing a lot. I'm like, listen, people who are athletes, they're afraid of wrestling because it's exhausting. They don't want to feel that burn in their lungs. You really want to push yourself like that? I worry about it. I just don't want him to get fucked up. Totally with you.

I mean, he had double lung transplant surgery, like, how long ago? That was like a year ago. A year ago? Maybe two years ago. Maybe two years ago?

Yeah, maybe two years ago. I'd be worried even just about infection. Yeah.

I'd be worried about everything. And I would also be worried if you're doing that, I think you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to keep someone else's organs inside of you.

So you're going to go out into a giant crowd of people, sweat on each other?

So my friend C.T. Fletcher, you know C.T. Fletcher? C.T. had a heart transplant, and he has to take medication to keep this heart in his body, keep his body from rejecting it. And he has a bunch of complications from the medication, like makes him swell, and he posts videos and pictures about it. Like, it's a serious thing. And he had to be real careful during COVID. Like, you have a heart transplant, and then you're on immunosuppressant drugs, and then all of a sudden, or a bad flu. Yeah, like anything bad will fucking kill you because your immune system is working in a weird way because it's trying to keep someone else's heart inside of you Yeah, your body's like who's this fucking heart right? Not our heart to get it out your body's like this is a disease Which is wild that your body knows yeah, like it recognizes And we're just like no we can buy we can hack nature shove it in there and give you some drugs that make your body stay alive

I think it was below Muhammad. Maybe he has like an agreement. Hey listen didn't they used to train together, right?

They did used to train together. So they're friends. Maybe that's the deal We were just reading about this last night two people have had pig hearts Transplanted in their body. No way. Yeah one guy stayed alive I think for 60 days and one guy stayed alive for 40 days. Did they gain a lot of weight? They're not fucking shoveling their face in the trash. So wait, you're telling me they have pig hearts? Whose idea was it to put a pig heart in another human being? There's a bunch of doctors, because apparently pig's hearts, for some reason, are similar in function to a human heart. Say that about a sheep's vagina.

Don't they?

Don't they? They do. I'm a farmer, but that's what I heard.

That's what I heard, too. so a pig's heart yeah and that's fucking that's fucking crazy it's crazy and so they did it on two people yeah but either way the whole thing of transplanting organs from other people is like super risky and dangerous and once it's working the the number of like we looked at heart transplants i don't know what it is for lung double lung transplants but it look you look at mortality over a period of years and so it's like 91 percent of the people survived the first year and then it starts and then it starts going down so 9% of the people die after the heart transplant but then it starts to go down after you know that's for the first year when it gets to five years then you're in the 80s or the 90s and then the 80s and it keeps dipping it keeps dipping until like at 10 years it's like half of them are dead Jesus yeah so you're buying some time right but you know it's also what about other it's a good question like so what is it like for double lung transplant I don't know but I would imagine

it's fragile you want to put that in the fucking red you want to push that when you're breathing heavy it felt like yesterday he was making laps around the hospital floor right yeah and that's

a dude well he's a winner right

And that's the problem. Like sometimes when you're a winner, your your will is so strong that you think you could force your body into unrealistic expectations.

There's got to be some agreement. Yeah. I just in my mind, too. But he cheated. I mean, basically you cheated death.

Yes.

Your family. Now you have your family back. You understand you have a second chance. Like, why would you put that at risk to do something?

Maybe him and you have nothing to prove. have like a friendly wrestling role I don't think that though he's an animal

I don't think that they have an agreement with each other

I think that somebody told Bilal hey listen man don't push this dude he said like I saw an interview where he said like his first question was what are you talking about can he wrestle has he even been cleared

I would not accept that if I was Bilal I'd be like, that's not, the pros don't go, and this is no disrespect to Askren, it's like, I think that guy's an animal, like, I was one of the biggest promoters of trying to get Askren into the UFC when he was the champion of Bellator, and then when he went over to one, and the argument was like, he was boring, and I was like, no, he's not boring, it's crazy that he could do this to these guys, he could take guys like Douglas Lima and just ragdoll him to the ground, and they can't do shit to him, Koroskov, remember

did to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wasn't boring at all. He was destroying guys, yeah.

Bad-dolling these guys. They had zero chance in him not taking them down. It was zero chance, and it was beautiful. Right. It wasn't like Alex Pereira flying knee and somebody in the face, but it's still another way to win. But it was like a man and a child. Yes. Yeah. It was crazy good. He was crazy good. And then we got him like a little late, right? We got him when he already had hip problems, and he eventually had to get a hip replacement after he got out of the UFC. And, you know, he had already been 15 years in combat sports and then all the years of wrestling. But those days when he was running shit at Bellator, he was a motherfucker, dude. He was a motherfucker. Fight Night is here. Title shots, debut killers, and the rising contender nobody's talking about yet. And only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. The DraftKings app is now available in all 50 states and includes all markets. Bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. New DraftKings customers sign up with CodeRogan. Spend $5 to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. That's CodeRogan in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours.

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Amazing. The beautiful thing about that fight is it's almost like the closest thing to style versus style that we could have nowadays. They're both so brilliant at the way they use their art with him with his wrestling and him with his jiu-jitsu. And in that fight, you got to see some of that with Ben. You got to see the takedowns. You got to see an Uma Plata reversal. and a leg lock ashi reversal. I mean, beautiful jiu-jitsu. Yeah. It was just such a great fight. Dude, Damian Maia got

fucked harder than anybody ever got fucked by a referee's decision. Kamaru's, man. Yep. Ever. Right. Nobody got fucked harder than Damian Maia got fucked. Was it her? Who was it? I don't know. And maybe we shouldn't even put her name up.

I can't do my boys like that, man. I gotta see them

in a week. I want to think, I don't remember who it was, but I think it was a guy who doesn't do it in the UFC anymore. But he had him on his back, one hook in, over, under. He had gotten to a position where, like, you are fucked. You're dry, and you got the best back specialist in the UFC. Damian Meyer, the way he ran through Neil Magny, you're like, holy shit, man. His jiu-jitsu is so high level. And for you to get off, get him off, and Kamaru's one loss? Right, was to make a choke. Yeah, Alex Lutero's brother. So it's like, how many years ago was that? And now you're fighting Damian Maia, and he's got your back. You're in danger. Yeah. You're in danger. And the referee separated him. So crazy. Never got to that spot again. Kamaru played it nice. He fought a great fight, won the fight. And you're like, Damian Maia.

Damn, Damien had him. He had him in a, like, not 9 out of 10, but he had him in, like, a 6 out of 10 spot for him. Yeah, yeah. Like, half the time, he gets your back and you're dry, and you're not at his level of jiu-jitsu. You're in fucking trouble.

You should never separate anybody from that position. I know you're a big proponent of not standing people up, but especially positions that it requires time to get to. 100%.

100%. And the idea that a guy can defend it for a few seconds and the crowd boos, and that's enough for you to make him neutral again, fuck you. I know. It's so hard to get to Kamaru. Kamaru Usman, to get to his back like that.

And the tightness is what keeps that position. Any space he makes and Kamaru's gone.

Name the amount of times in the history of Kamaru's entire, all the years of competition where people got him in disadvantageous grappling positions. I can't think of any. There's very few. Very few. Leon took him down. Leon mounted him for a moment. Yeah. Chimaev. But even Chimaev, he was winning the third round. Oh, well, he... I thought he almost won that fight. That was a fight where I bet he was... He won the last half. But here he is. Here he is. This is crazy.

Oh, shit. Do I need headshots? Who is that? Does it matter? I don't know. All right.

That sucks. Back it up again so you can see how good the position was a little further. Yeah, look at that hook. Can you get it a little further back? Yeah. So I want to see it like when he starts entangling. This is so bad for Kamaru. You have to understand how bad this is. Yeah, this is bad. This is not just simply he's like behind you. And Maya had the progression. He was just about to beat that wizard. Bro, look how good this looks, too. Maya is just a gorilla.

His wrestling was underestimated, too.

So it was technical in everything. And his use of leverage and his positioning was always perfect. It just was so beautiful to watch. When you see a guy just super high-level jiu-jitsu in the UFC, you're just like, oh, my God, this is beautiful to watch.

Yeah, I love how methodical he's working his way into this. Dangerous, man. Look at that. Oh, my God. He was going to step in there. Look at this.

That arm is the only thing.

And he's just about to beat that arm.

And not only that, from here he could just start beating him up with the right hand, which he'll probably start doing.

So if the referee really stands him up from this position, like, this is a crazy way to separate people. This is bad, man. This is like, for Kamaru, this is super dangerous. He's still got half the round left. Hanging on to that whizzer for dear life is the only thing to keep him from getting this guy on your neck. And that whizzer is like at 40% power now, because look how far back it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much into that. There's not much. It's hard. It's hard to generate power like that with Kamaru. I mean, he's got full double underhooks How do they break this up? How do you break this up? This is crazy to break up like this is such a dangerous position. Oh

This is bad. I don't recognize the ref

Yeah, I can't remember. I recognize I'm not gonna say his name. There's no need to but this is a giant mistake You're clear Herb Sometimes in fights, man, these guys listen to the crowd. Oh, yeah. It's kind of hard not to, right? And they feel responsible. Yeah, they do. And in the organization, I'm sure they feel pressure because the organization wants, like, fast action fights. But there's certain situations where you've got to just accept the fact that sometimes this sport is not the most exciting for moments. Because it's so exciting in other spots. Punching his ass. Oh, that's crazy. Right there. that's fucking crazy that's crazy that's the worst fuck over that anybody's ever gotten in the UFC I mean I think that's the worst

there is the time that fucking Bustamante had to get two Lintlins and two submissions that's a pretty big fuck

that's who Meyer reminds me of his striking wasn't as good as Murillo's but the combination of wrestling and his jujitsu like once he got a hold of you he was probably going to put you out

Murillo was so good He's still coming around. He's got a fighter in the UFC now. Nice. Does he? That's awesome.

I saw him when I first started jiu-jitsu at Carlson Gracie's place. Did you? Yeah, the very first year that I started jiu-jitsu, it was like him, Vitor was there, Sergio Cohen, Mario Sperry. It was crazy. They had a ridiculous room back then. I just lucked out and wound up watching these guys train when Vitor was about to make his UFC debut. I was just starting out. I was like this is amazing seen all them guys in there do they were all in there man You could just come in off the street and see the best jujitsu guys in the world training. That's crazy It was crazy, and it was all they were they were all fighting in There was the other guy was named carlos that's right carlos bajetto he was there too there was a bunch of those carlson gracie team guys that we just got lucky that this was the place that was yeah man and randleman

yeah built like a he-man figure carlson had some savages man he really had a great team yeah yeah it was a pretty oh back then oh that's that's where i got my black belt from laborio Hell yeah, that's another guy to be proud of. He is a good guy.

Such a nice guy. Yeah, it's kind of amazing when you realize that before 1993, jujitsu had no schools. Right? And now they're everywhere. Every corner. They're nuts. Eight ground controls. That's truly insane. The Gracie family, the world owes them. Yeah. The world owes them. The world, the whole world. The world is impacted. Think of the world. The world. The whole world. Yeah, everybody. Because I think liking MMA has impacted culture. And then people training, much more people training in jiu-jitsu has impacted culture.

Hell yeah.

Where the fuck would we be?

The UFC's here because of the Gracie's as well. I mean, obviously the Fertig is in Dana, but whose idea was it? Yeah, but Horian started the whole thing.

He wanted to have a crocodile mode around it.

You remember? It's amazing.

I remember hearing about it in 1992 with Horian and Hoist, the seminar I went to, and they were talking about that. They were talking about the different ideas, what they were going to do. And even though I didn't think they were full of shit, I thought it was never going to happen. I'm like, what is this, Bloodsport? I go, on TV, they're going to be fighting. It sounded ridiculous. But now everybody's so used to it, it sounds ridiculous that it sounds ridiculous. That's true.

Dude, when I first found out about it, I didn't watch it until it was UFC 2, because I only watched it on videotape. Like, someone from the gym told me about it. And I went and watched it. I got the videotape, like Hollywood video, brought it home, and I was like, oh, my God, they did it. They did it. That's what I thought. So, you're like, oh, they pulled this off. I saw the pay-per-view. No, no, they did the thing that we always wanted. Oh, yeah. So, when I first started. Style versus style. Yeah. Yeah, I first started taking karate, and I thought karate was good until I stumbled into this really good taekwondo school. And I was like, oh, taekwondo's a shit. And then I started boxing. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't box. And then I started kickboxing. I'm like, oh, my God, you kick my legs? I didn't know you can kick my legs. This is terrible. And then I started doing jiu-jitsu. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm helpless. So it's like all these steps along the way. I was like, it wouldn't have been nice if we knew what style was real. And this is what Bruce Lee tried. And, bro, when I was starting out in, like, 88 doing taekwondo, nobody knew nothing. Nobody knew what worked. Everybody just like, sorry, that guy beats people in that thing. And that guy beat – I wonder what would happen if they fought. No one knew.

And they thought wrestling was worthless Grappling arts were worthless

But luckily I learned it was not worthless In high school when I got my ass kicked

Me too man Practicing on a fucking wooden dummy One inch punch my ass That's all I know And every time I get into a real scrap I'd go back to my season of 8th grade wrestling

That's the case But I also think that Wing Chun Would work if you knew all the other But, like, Anderson Silva can use Wing Chun. Right. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of hand trapping. Yeah, there's hand trapping and elbows from him. There's stuff that does work. If you know all the other shit, it's an added element. Right. It's like there's moves that you could do that your opponent's not going to. Your opponent is used to this, right? They're used to punches, like regular punches. Every now and then, weird shit can work because they don't see it coming, and then it opens up other big shots. And Wing Chun can. And those guys, when you watch the really good ones, like, whack at each other's arms and shit, you're like, okay, there's, like, a little value in this.

Yeah.

There's a little value in getting good at this. As long as you know how to actually punch. Yeah, I don't dismiss nothing. Because anything can work in the right context. It's just not going to work on Terrence Crawford. Sure, yeah.

Not a boxing match against Terrence Crawford. It's not going to work. Nothing in.

I don't know what is working against him anyway.

Fucking not much. No one has figured that out. Not much. No one has figured that out. Not much. Listen, you could have fun with it, but as far as value, I'd say very little value. Very little. It's only valuable if you're already doing the other stuff. Yeah, if you're going to do that, you might as well be doing Muay Thai, Western boxing, or jiu-jitsu.

No, no, for sure. By itself, useless. But what I think is if you already are doing other stuff and you could train with a guy who can show you some of it, I think you would be like, oh, I see value in this. Like do you remember when Dan Henderson was fighting Hector Lombard and he hit him with like a back elbow, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like our back forearm. It was an elbow or four. It was an elbow. Yeah, I think you like throw punching Sometimes people do standing back fists sometimes and they work There's some shit that we're missing. Yeah, and like I think Wing Chun is a part of it yeah I agree with that like especially like when you're in close like in clenching positions you're just like trapping hands

you know what I think is the number one thing that people need what should be doing the number one thing that people should be doing is point fighting karate it's you know like you want to add something I mean not obviously not number one over wrestling and all that but the number one thing to add don't add

Wing Chun add point fighting karate but it's so but it's such a physical thing that a lot of people probably can't do. Especially if you come from a wrestling background where you're so used to being heavy

and square. To be able to

turn sideways and jump in and out

like that. But if you can do it, that advantage is so huge. When you watch MVP when he's in his fucking prime. That's so funny. The shower of a bullet. Yeah, but the thing about the back elbow. Crazy. What a beautiful elbow. From a wrestling position. Let me see that again. How did he land it? So, yeah, he had his leg. Look at that. He's holding his leg. And he catches it. Look at the fucking elbow. Oh, son. Right behind it here, too. Fantastic. What a fucking elbow. That's one of the greatest elbows of all time. Underappreciated elbow right there. To get a knockout elbow while you're hopping on one leg? Yeah, that's crazy. Fighting off the takedown?

Yeah.

That was nasty.

Nasty.

It wasn't Wayne Chung.

But what I was getting to is these guys, like MVP, that advantage is so huge. The advantage of being Wonderboy in his prime, bro, that advantage is so nuts.

So I watch videos of people doing it online. I'm like, if you could do that in an MMA fight, no one will catch you. You'll be in and out before they catch you.

You know who's the closest to it? Cyril Ghosn. It's true. Cyril Ghosn is not a point-fighting karate guy. He's a Muay Thai, but he's a basketball player. And we were talking about this the other day. Like, what better sport to develop plyometrics and the ability to change direction than basketball. You're constantly changing direction. And they're big men. Then why can't basketball players fight? They're the worst fighters on the planet. Because they don't train.

That's true.

Just because they don't train. But Cyril Ghosn, you look at the way he moves. He moves like a basketball player can move. But he's 250 pounds and he's a heavyweight. And he can fucking strike.

I remember I used to train Walt Harris, who was a pretty good basketball player. And I used to always try to tell him, man, it's the same thing. Your pivots are the same. You've got to be able to move, change directions. is the same thing but as a heavyweight it also comes with being lazy yes those guys are just

lazy well it's harder to do hey fuck you dean it's harder to move all that weight right it's like this episode is brought to you by lifelock identity theft costs more than you think that's why lifelock is backed by the million dollar protection package which covers up to three million for the most comprehensive plan. So if your money is stolen due to identity theft, if you have personal expenses while resolving it, like paying for extra child care or need coverage for lost wages because work also had to take a backseat, LifeLock has your back. Plus, there's coverage if you need to pay fees for lawyers and experts to resolve your case. Don't face the burden of identity theft alone. Protect your future and finances with LifeLock. Visit lifelock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com slash J-R-E for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped. Summer's here, man. You're at the beach, at the pool, you're outside all the time. And if you're rocking the bald look, this is the season when your dome is on full display. That's why I've been using the Dome Shaver Pro from Manscaped. It's got five double-track blade heads with flex-adjust technology, so it contours your head and glides smoothly. It's waterproof, powerful, and has an ergonomic handle for better control. Plus, the battery lasts up to 90 minutes and is wireless charging compatible, so it's perfect for travel. The Dome Shaver Pro makes it easy to stay cool and look badass all summer long. So do yourself a favor and go to manscaped.com and use the code ROGAN15 at checkout to get 15% off your entire order. Again, that's code ROGAN15 for 15% off any order at manscaped.com. Own the summer. Own the dome. It's hard to get a 248-pound guy to move like Cyril Ghosn. There's not a whole lot of them. We were just talking about it the other day. I think it's an underappreciated thing because we're used to lighter weight fighters moving like that. But I'm like, name one. Name one guy at heavyweight who moves like that. You know who used to? You know who used to? It was the dark horse of the heavyweight division. Travis fucking Brown. When Travis Brown was in his prime, he was a bad motherfucker, dude. And he moved light. He was a big, tall dude, and he moved light. Orlovsky. used to he just he had some you know wars yeah they take their toll on you but if you go back to like travis brown in his heyday when he was knocking people out with those elbows from the clinch and the way he would move like he would move like super light on his feet like bouncing around and i think it was because he played basketball it's gotta be it 100 it makes sense because i know travis played basketball yeah you know he said when you get a big athlete that's

light on their feet, that's a giant advantage. Yeah, it is. Because you only need one entrance that you didn't anticipate when you get popped, and now you're compromised.

And getting that first step and being able to get a clean shot. Yes. Dude,

those karate point guys, I've only fought a couple of karate point fights when I was a kid, when I was doing Taekwondo tournaments, we'd enter into them, and I fought this one guy that was like, his name was Mafia Holloway, he was like a champion. I couldn't even touch him. I couldn't even get close to him. His first name was Mafia? Mafia Holloway. It was a very famous, I don't know if it was his real name, but that's what his name was back in the day. He was like a well-known black belt point fighting champion. I couldn't even touch him. I was like, Jesus, we're playing totally different games. I'm playing a continuous fighting game, which where you fight in Taekwondo for a certain amount of minutes, and he's playing this thing where you stop every time they hit you. And so you can't hit him, and he keeps hitting you. And it's just stop, stop, stop, stop. It's like, whoa. It's so frustrating. But I remember leaving going, ooh, I need to learn that. Like, that's crazy. I didn't know you could move that quick and just jump out of there the way he's doing. And I'm like, and you think about, like, these guys that fight him, like Kevin Holland that fight MVP. After a while, they're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, for real. He was in his corner saying that. Like, I can't hit him. He's quicker than I thought. What am I doing here? This is nuts. You just can't do anything to him, and he's styling on you.

Yeah, that's why when I trained Tyron to fight Steven Thompson, Wonderboy, we did. So I knew the mistake that everybody was making. They were using just regular tall kickboxers. I went to karate schools, and we got just karate kids that did that for him to spar with. And I was like, don't worry about takedowns. We don't even need to get there. Just be able to deal with this movement and his length and being able to deal with that because it's different. What is this? Mafia Holloway.

Oh, shit. Yeah. He's got a crazy kick here. Dude was very good. He was very good. He didn't get me with that He got me with a couple of sidekicks to the body though tell you that I was very impressed I was impressed by the speed in which he was able to like move forward and back Because that darting in and just tagging each other speed is a totally different speed They're like continuous fighting speed because continuous fighting speed You would assume that if the guy's hitting you that you're gonna counter and you're gonna exchange And what these guys are used to is you never exchange they just pop you They pop you and they get the fuck out of there. And that's an asset in MMA. Giant asset. Because you can just knock somebody out and that's it. Giant asset. It's a giant asset also. If you try to play their game, you should just try to play their game just to realize how hard it is. And you're like, oh, this is a different thing. This is all about the blitz. It's all about the entry. They switch stances at will, too. At will. Yeah. At will. But I think all the good guys do now. I think that's going to be a prerequisite. There's too many calf kickers out there. Yeah.

You've got to be able to switch.

do you guys watch one you watch uh kickboxing and one did you see uh jonathan haggerty and yuki yoza it wasn't good for haggerty was it no he won he figured him out haggerty was he's the guy to beat that dude that was wrecking everybody with he's yeah he's a elbow guy that's right well he's just a full-on muay thai guy but he beat him by continuous movement and switching stances oh You're right. Shit, I think I sent the video on our group. I did see that. I think I sent the video on a really technical fight. For sure. Like, if you really like striking, it's a really technical fight. He did an amazing job of just constantly giving them different looks and switching stances and moving and then catching them in exchanges. And, dude, it was fucking beautiful because he always crushes everybody's legs. It was really sweet.

Yeah, he just kept switching stances on them, too.

Just kept switching stances, and he did a lot of great boxing from the outside, too. Yeah, I did see this. But he never gave him the same look. See that? Look at that.

Look at that.

And then knees to the body. A lot of knees to the body. It was beautiful. Brilliant fight. I was just chatting with him on Instagram. I'm going to try to get him on. Nice. Bring him to America. This is what Zufa should be promoting. I mean, I know they love boxing. That's awesome. I'm glad they're doing that. But this is it. Yeah. If you want another thing that's really exciting, it's striking. Just have only Muay Thai.

I'm just surprised they haven't done that it doesn't make any sense that's what everybody likes

everybody really do Dana said to me I don't know if he changed his opinion but he said to me that people don't like kickboxing because they think of like PKA karate from ESPN

from like the 1980s i'm like that's old people young people love martial arts like young people love knockouts young people boo when fights go to the ground they do mma is the best no doubt about it it's the greatest sport of all time it's the champion of sports however if you're gonna have some value in another combat sport it's muay thai it's the most exciting shit you can do the most options you can need they could throw each other they do all kinds of wild kicking you think uh

rico verhoeven's boxing success will bring some eyes to kickboxing i hope so i'm having him on too i hope so i hope so that was incredible he's really phenomenal i mean dude for 10 rounds he

really he was into the point where if you if you're good judges if the judges are real he Usyk needs a knockout to win

a thousand percent which is crazy I thought he was up by eight like eight to one or two at the time

I thought the same a lot of people thought the same I mean he was he was bullying him around he was moving

he used his weight well he shit over he joked on himself and it was phenomenal because he put my style against Usyk and it was Jim Carrey and it fucking what's the one where he comes boxing at the guys it often looked like it too it was fucking phenomenal but but man He really did amazing. I personally think if they rematch that now Usyk will kind of figure him out, so maybe it'll get him faster. Look, I hope not because I was rooting for Rico.

If they rematch, Rico was going to know that he can do that. Before that fight, he didn't know he could do that, and Usyk didn't know he could do that. And the difference is Usyk is not a real heavyweight. He's the greatest heavyweight of all time, which is crazy, but he's not a real heavyweight. Tyson, in my opinion, is always going to be my favorite. in his prime, he was just so insane. It was so insane to watch him just demolish the whole division. For real. But then you look at Cassius Clay, and then when he was Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes doesn't get his due, and Lennox Lewis was a fucking beast. So maybe, you know, who knows who would have fought, but that guy stylistically is like the greatest heavyweight ever. Like, watching him move, the way he... Yeah, like skill for skill when you look incredible. He's incredible. He's a skill. You're watching an artist. Yeah. It's like the way he put it on Dubois. Dude, that uppercut was sick too. Yeah. Oh my god. He's incredible, but he's still really a 220-pound guy. You know?

Yeah.

Like, he puts on some extra weight. He was a little thicker for that fight. But, you know, Rico's huge.

He's a giant.

Rico's a giant guy from the Netherlands. Is that where he's from? That's a real heavyweight man.

Yeah, another Dutch kickboxer. They're all giants. They're all tough as shit, too. What is he, like 6'5", 270? He's huge. 260?

He's got crazy cardio, too, for a big, giant guy.

He was bouncing on. I mean, he was, for 10 rounds, he kept that pace as a heavyweight, keeping that pace. And then once he slowed, you know, that's when Usyk was able to find him. Did you watch it, Matt? I can't watch.

I have a hard time watching anything but fucking mixed martial arts. I love jiu-jitsu. And Star Wars. I love jiu-jitsu. Yeah, well, you know, Star Wars. I saw the new He-Man movie, by the way. How was it? It was fucking good. Really? The Masters of the Universe was good. I was worried. because I'm thinking all the new reboots and this and that I go is it going to be too woke is it going to be this it was fucking fun it had a Thor Ragnarok type feel where it's just kind of fun and a little goofy but not to the point where it's just takes you out of it you know what it is I grew up with that He-Man that was my I was a kid around our age right so it did justice to that like you know it made it fun

I heard Skeletor was awesome.

Yeah, Jared Leto.

I heard there was some sort of crazy, he wasn't allowed to do interviews, he wasn't allowed to talk to the rest of the cast. Why? Because they were worried he was going to do nutty shit. In the Joker, he was sending people dead rats in the mail. Oh, really? Because he was in character. That's weird. So they were like, yeah, you're going to be an evil fucking Skeletor guy? No, we can't let you be in character. We can't contact the rest of the crew. I don't know if that's true. That's what I heard, but it was fun. See if that's true.

No, I heard that, too. I heard Will Smith said something about that. Yeah, I thought somebody said that.

I thought somebody said he sent them like a rat or something when he was the Joker, yeah. Yeah. He said, I know you're playing the Joker, but come on with the rats.

Yeah, yeah, you would chill out. There's some dudes that play the Joker, and you're like, all right, it's over. Hey, I heard. When Heath Ledger played the Joker, everybody stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Joker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't come back after that. Until Joaquin. Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah. I saw that and I was like okay now that's the Joker

Then you saw the sequel And you said fuck that

I didn't see the sequel Tim Dillon told me it was the worst movie That's ever everybody said that did it like i didn't see it neither i didn't make i didn't watch it if i was guessing he probably didn't want to do it i don't know what they were thinking i bet it was like a dispute between like the movie company and the dude i don't know the musical directed it why would you do that yeah unless you're trying to mock it yeah or you're trying to diffuse it maybe the government was like hey after you released that movie we had the blm riots and everybody's lighting LA on fire. Hey, maybe don't have a movie where you're encouraging people to light cities on fire. Maybe make a musical. So crazy. Is he trying to diffuse the Joker movement with a musical?

It's funny how the first... I've never seen a... I mean, sequels aren't normally as good as the original, but holy fuck. I've never seen something so bad. I didn't make it through it. I saw some of it, and then I'm like, once they started singing, I'm like, I'm out of this motherfucker.

It's very rare where a sequel, you're like, damn, that's just as good.

Well, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back.

Those are a couple. Those are a couple. Rocky 2. You didn't like Rocky 2? John Wick 2 is pretty fucking good.

Why did he take it to the zoo in the beginning? I never can get over that. I like the zoo. Go stare at the giraffe. The whole joke was that mean bodyguard saying, take it to the zoo. the retards like this and then he takes her to the fucking zoo to propose to her is that not crazy

yeah that is bro that's how people were in the 70s they were animals

but he's basically just saying that right you're right people were animals before the internet man are you still doing movie reviews on your channel oh you're trying to plug my channel no well I'm saying give me something I love it no no no you want to talk about the Matt Sarah channel on you do good job Dean hey you know what I'm watching on there I do I do series reactions Or movies reactions Are you watching The new House of Dragon?

No I haven't saw it yet There's too many things to watch Let me tell you something

I'm fucked I'm in the middle of From I want to talk to you about that too My wife's mad at From

Don't tell me why It might be ahead of me I'm on season 4 Episode 5 I think How many seasons is it? There's only 4 And then the 5th one Is the final season It doesn't come out until 2027 So don't tell me

8 House of Dragon, now look I love Game of Thrones, the Night of the Seven Kingdoms was phenomenal and House of Dragons, out of all of them is the one I like the least, cause it's a lot of just gloom and doom all the characters are pricks, they're all a bunch of fucking wacky-toggerians, yeah there's no one to like exactly, no one's noble, but this one this third season is fucking, I watch yeah I do the reactions on my channel thanks Dean, what is the channel? the Matt Serra channel on YouTube, oh look at this he's contemplating, oh that's me

It's like he's contemplating

House of the Dragons Do you ever see Mystery Science Theater? This is on my Mystery Science Theater

The fact that you're the former UFC welterweight champion of the world and you're sitting there with the headphones on This is what I think about House of Dragons You didn't have to do that That's 200 milligrams of edibles right there You know what scene I really love? When they were trying to find Targaryens Because the Targaryens had a bunch of bastard children Trying to see who's a Targaryen So they put people out with the dragons

The prior seasons Had some good scenes like that But this season I just watched three of them so far Each one of them is It's nothing but fighting now It's nothing but going at it

And it's fucking good I'm in I watched the whole season, all the episodes of Game of Thrones recently. You went back and started again? Went back, yeah. We watched it for like four or five months, watched every one of them. And when you watch it like every couple nights a week, like two, three nights a week when you're watching it, it's like you just like you follow. You don't have to wait like years in between seasons. It's incredible. It's better that way. It's the greatest epic adventure show in the history of the world. I tell people that all the time. I'm like, you got to watch it. It's so good, dude. For sure. I forgot how good it was. And even though it's 10 years old, special effects are perfect.

Yeah, for sure. I'm going to say something I never said in my life. There's a new book I'm reading.

What? Hey, guys. Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hey, guys. Is it audible? There's a new book I'm reading.

Is it a graphic novel? Son of a bitch. No, it's not. It is. And all right, I've got to be honest. I'm listening to the audio book. Oh, okay. I hate when people say they're reading a book when they really listen to the audio book.

Don L. Rollins gave me so much shit about that. He's like, how you reading when you just listened? I'm just trying to abbreviate it. Yes, I listened to an audio book. Sorry. I didn't sit down and read it.

Red Rising. Red Rising. Have you ever heard of this? No. Well, you're going to document this episode because sooner or later someone's going to pick it up and it's going to become either an Amazon series or a movie. One of my black belts, Jedi Joey Beans, told me about this ages ago. What a great name. Jedi Joey Beans? Jedi Joey Beans. Oh, Joey Beans is a savage. Jedi Joey Beans is a fucking great name. He's great. But he likes all the shit I'm into, so he told me about this. I'm going to write it down. What is it called again? Red Rising. That's it. And I'll tell you, I don't know how many books there are, but I'm listening to the first one, and I'm like more than halfway through. What's it about? Setting a future on Mars. Whoa. Red Rising is a 2014 dystopian science fiction novel. You guys are a bunch of fucking boys, first of all. You guys are a bunch of fucking. this is why I got my short friend

he's out here telling us he's reading and dystopian comes out somebody else read it

bunch of pricks this is a great book this is a great book and I like getting into something new well how long is the book

that's regular coffee unless you want a little baby I was trying to figure out what you're going to do with that. I didn't know what I was doing. I'm a caffeine freak. I'm down for that. I'm down for that. Yeah, the Red Rising, man, that was really good.

Pass me that coffee, man. It's like Game of Thrones in space.

Ooh, I'm in. I'm in. Oh, you know what I started watching? Because of you guys, that Battlestar Galactica. Yes, fucking great. And I'm like, I'm only on the first season. There's like 20 episodes a season. I'm like 10 in right now. Yeah, that was the Sci-Fi Channel.

Bro, that show was so underrated. So underrated. Like, to this day, if you go back and watch Battlestar Galactica, the entire series, it's fucking incredible. Very good. The new one. Not the old one. Not the one from the 70s. The original. By your command. Yeah. That's right.

Here's what I'm going to recommend. You can watch it with your wife or by yourself, whatever you want to do. Porn? What's that? You're going to say porn? That's always it. I thought you were going to say porn.

Or by yourself.

Widow's Bay.

Widow's Bay. Oh, man. What is that?

Apple TV comes out with some fucking bangers. Bangers. Silo's another great one. But Widow's Bay, it's very rare. It's about an island that's kind of cursed, and a mayor's trying to get it to become like the next fucking Martha's Vineyard or whatever that is. And, you know, this is it. Oh, that guy. That guy was in The Beast Within.

This is great. Bro, that guy's in another great fucking series that also might be Apple. It might be.

It's very rare that something—I don't like—like, my family's a bunch of ghouls, except for my oldest. They like all the horror shit. I'm not into it. But it's very rare. I like spooky shit. So it's, like, spooky, but it's fucking funny. It's got, like, a quirky-type humor to it. And I was fucking dying. I was laughing. Nice.

The Beast in Me is another one. It was—what was it on? Netflix. It's on Netflix. It's still on Netflix. It's a series, and it's about an author and this fucking psychotic guy that is a rich guy who lives in her neighborhood. I don't want to tell you any more than that. It's a movie? Yeah, I saw that. Claire Danes and that guy, Matthew. You watch that show? I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it.

Is it good? Good.

Claire Danes can act her ass off. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry. Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy, delivered straight to your door, like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game. All the hosting, none of the hassle. Order in so you can lock in for the games. Only on Uber Eats for a limited time. Terms apply. See app for details. You'd never know if she was lying to you. Right? You'd have no idea. There's no way you're going to tell. The lip quiver. Bro, she could lie her ass off. She's fantastic on that. It's got 98% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's how good it is. It's a great show.

The Beast in Me.

Yeah, there's too much shit to watch. There's so much shit.

I just started The Pit, and I'm late on that. What's The Pit? About the ER room in Pittsburgh. Oh. She plays a doctor in the ER room. It's really good, though. Okay.

there's some I'm into for a while then I just fucking fall off I've never heard of it there's too many shows yeah I did that with Landman after a while I'm just like new season of Landman's good I don't give a shit about the slutty wife and the daughter's annoying me oh I love her she's my favorite she plays the stripper wife well after a while it's just like all right i go they get to some interesting shit with like the cartels after them and then they're oh let's take the all the seniors out to the strip joint it's like here we go oh the wife's being outrageous again right it's like i mean it's i mean i don't got my add i can't take it that's fun now that was my problem with it too i thought

that the women were like caricatures of women yeah come on man it was too much who's cheering

their daughter on basically to be a hoe i want to know i was kind of like yeah i have a question though if you guys all seen it why does the why do they live together like the uh the other lawyer and why do they all live with billy bob thornton and his family that's a plot point yeah there's

no other reason why because there's only one house on the ranch or something oh because i'm just like they all have to live in the one house it's his office and his home basically it makes it fun but Isn't he making a lot of money? Shouldn't all of them be making a lot of money? Yeah, you would think his lawyer would be making big bank. Well, now he's got to be making money because now he's running the company. Spoiler alert. So he's making more money.

She's making sure they're eating their vegetables.

And that bitch gets mad about anything. I love Billy Bob, though. Billy Bob and that show is so good. He makes the show. He makes the show. He 100%. Taylor said that he wouldn't have even made the show if it wasn't for Billy. Really? He went to Billy with the idea. He goes, I'm not going to make this if you're not going to be in it.

Yeah, he made the show. I thought Andy Garcia was good in it, too. Oh, Andy Garcia.

He's great in everything. Yeah, yeah. You ever see Things to Do in Denver when you're dead? Hell yeah.

Fucking Longo loves that lemon.

Dude, that's a great movie.

I hate that movie. I never made it through. Longo loves that fucking movie. I'm with you, Ray. I'm with you. That lemon. Longo loves it. And I can never make it through it.

In all honesty, I haven't seen it in decades. But when I saw it, I loved it. But the problem is sometimes you go back and you try to watch one of them movies that you really liked. And you're like, what the fuck was wrong with me? This movie sucks, a fat one. There's a bunch of movies like that. You try to watch them. They're terrible.

Sometimes it's just better off remembering how good they used to be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the impact. You were just a more naive person before the internet.

Yeah, true. I watched one of the worst movies that was so fucking good that it was bad. it was uh rowdy right rowdy rowdy right how about rowdy rowdy piper rowdy rowdy rowdy piper yes he was in milligrams we saw him last night too joey joey that's right hell comes to frogstown now it's a it's a it's a combination of say like mad max like a post-apocalyptic thing and escape from New York where in the future Rowdy is the only guy who's not fucking sterile everybody else is sterile so they have to it starts off when he's in like a fucking general's he's in like a room because he got caught with the general's daughter and fucking they put a a jockstrap on him with explosives and he has to Oh, my God. He has to. He was talking to a frog?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So his mission is to go to his frog's town, and there's a harem there, and he's got to impregnate everybody, or else they're going to fucking blow him up. Sounds like a horrible job. It is. It's crazy. This movie.

What a silly movie. Oh, yeah. No, no. Oh, my God. You can't unsee it. So he comes to frog town? This is amazing. He cut out halfway through things you do in Denver when you're dead. But he's in for Frogtown. Yeah, but I agree. This, you know what you're getting into. It's not a bunch of people pretending to be cool. You know, it's like, this is just silly.

How did you even find this and then sit down and watch the whole thing? This is the thing. Well, you know, it's well documented about my ass problems. So sometimes I spend a lot of time on the throne and I got my iPad. So I go to prime video and it's almost like when I was little like I used to go through the channels and I'm like up all night I'd find something wacky. So I I look for weird or different movies and that's one of them And I just it just brought me right in I watched that whole I'm in two shits. I watched that all fucking movie What was the one when he was an alien? That's a crazy amount of time to shit.

Was it called They? Or whatever? Oh, I'm on the toilet a long time. That's crazy.

It's crazy to shit for two hours, you're saying? A little. Well, not for two hours.

The budget for this movie was double what that movie Obsession was that just came out. My wife said that movie was great. So the budget was $1.5 million back then. Yeah. In 1988. Wow. So was this a small release? who made this movie what was the company that made New World that's a big company maybe they sold it to New World I don't know how that shit works was this before or after they live well they live was good that's what I'm saying maybe they bankrolled it but I bet if you tried to return to Frogtown was released on 93 direct to VHS before even DVD they're like no fuck this straight to tape

now listen everybody don't go watching this and cursing me i mean we got to know what you're

getting into exactly what it looks like tv guy only gave it two out of five stars how dare they

dvd talk said three but i'll tell you he's he's he's hysterical in it he's fucking

for some reason i bet if we watch they live right now we wouldn't like it i bet we'd be like oh

it's still pretty funny if you want is it good when's the last time you saw it i mean it's one of them movies when you're flipping around if it's on because him and who's what's the his guy's name remember they had basically a wrestling match in the fucking alley they were suplexing each other

yeah yeah there's movies from like the 80s and the 90s there's movies from the 80s and the 90s that become comedies yeah like they used to be a comedy but this is kind of a comedy this is like a little tongue-in-cheek but then there's stuff like roadhouse right like roadhouse is a comedy Right for sure. Yeah, it's such a bad movie. Yeah, yeah, it's so bad. Yeah, it's so insanely bad guys bad Everything's bad except for Patrick Swayze's hair

It was appropriate at the time

Everything we were we were done people were dumb back then, you know, that's what I think I think we were down any vice, you know, no internet people were stupid. It's true. Yeah We were only exposed to what we were exposed to in your area. Yeah, we thought, that's a solid movie. You should go see Roadhouse. I'll tell you what, that's a good guy. You're going to root for him. Yeah. He's complicated, but he's tough. He's quiet and he likes poetry. He fucks people up and he says, pain don't hurt. I was about to say that. Pain don't hurt. The karate scenes are so bad. Everything is so bad. It's so fake. It's so dumb looking. But it's still awesome.

They brought Sam Elliott in, his backup, had an 80-year-old backup.

But dude, clearly could barely walk. He's like KOing guys left and right. That's it, me-ho. He's awesome in everything, though. Sam Elliott's awesome. Every time you see Sam Elliott in a movie, you're like, yes.

I think the bad guys, didn't he tell Patrick, what's his name, that he used to fuck guys like him in prison? Yes. Yes. Sam Elliott, that's the one who played Landman's father, right? Yes.

he's awesome he's always good always in everything he's a real life Marlboro man he's great in everything yeah that movie was so bad but the thing is back then it wasn't yeah everything in the 80s was bad TV shows were insane you watch them you're like what were they doing trying to brainwash America Roger Ebert's review is that this is right on the edge of a good bad movie and merely the bad it's not a good movie well he's right it's not a good movie But viewed in the right frame of mind, it's not a boring one either. Ah, that's the thing. Gene Siskel was less complimentary, calling it outrageous in terms of its cartoon-like plotting and dialogue and lamenting Swayze's mindless posturing. A young star has sold himself to become a pinup boy. Someone sounds a little jelly. Come on. Someone sounds a little jelly. That sounds a little jelly to me. It's called getting paid. Yeah, he made a movie and thought it was going to be better than it was. Okay, let's move on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a cult classic. To this day, people are still talking about it.

Bro, basically every actor that's ever lived has been in a cup of lemons. Of course. That's part of the process. Except maybe Daniel Day-Lewis.

He's probably a little bit more selective.

Maybe that Lincoln one. A lot of people didn't watch that Lincoln one. That might be the only one. I don't know anybody who was like raves about the Lincoln movie.

What about the vampire hunter Abraham Lincoln? Those are crazy. Who was in that?

Did anybody see that? I never seen it. I never saw that. That was Daniel Day-Lewis, right? It sounds like something that... No, I'm not. Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is crazy. That should have been made in the 80s. No. That should have been. It should have been. It should have been made in the 80s. Yeah, it's like a comic book. Did anybody see that? That sounds like a Marvel comic. I haven't seen it. I didn't see it either. It sounds like something I would watch. It sounds like something I would recommend. It's funny. Was it good? The Vampire Hunter thing? Yeah, it was like...

To me, it was like a comedy thing.

I might have seen it and forgotten about it. I don't even remember if I saw it.

I mean, you get high enough when you watch the movies. They're cool, but you don't really remember details all the time.

You know what I'm looking forward to? That new werewolf movie.

Oh, Eggers got the same guy that did Nosferatu. He's doing a werewolf. They just released a trailer. Did they? What's it called? Werewolf. Yeah, werewolf. I saw that. It's spelled weird, but it's basically a werewolf. Shit, man. Where's it take place? I don't know some foreign country. You can hear them speaking some strange language, you know, it's like, give me some volume. Oh, man. Oh, I want to see it. Yeah. That looks pretty wild. Robert Eggers is a shit.

Oh, Christmas? How was the van? Yeah, that's a weird Christmas. It should be a Halloween release. How was the vampire one? Fuck yeah, it was awesome. You think I like it? Yeah. I don't know.

It's good, dude. It is? I think it's the best vampire movie of all time.

Better than Interview with a Vampire?

Yeah.

Nosferatu?

Yeah, I think Nosferatu is the best vampire movie of all time. That's my opinion. I think it's the best. I've seen a bunch of them. Gary Oldman one was amazing. That was a great, that Dracula one with Keanu Reeves, Winona Wright. Yeah, that was a great one. That's still great. But, man, there's something about Edgar's Nosferatu. It's more terrifying than all of them. It's just something that's more hypnotic. He's got powers over people. It's weird the way he influences people. It's creepy. Yeah, the way that looks shot, I see what you're saying. You didn't see the Nosferatu? No, I didn't see it. Show me a scene when he's making him sign the contract. There's a scene where the dude has to go to his house, And he doesn't know, spoiler alert, like what contract he's signing because he's signing it in a language that he doesn't know to sell a house to this prince that lives in Romania. And he goes to visit this guy. It's the creepiest fucking scene ever. And this is the first scene where you like see him and you slowly gets revealed like what he is. Yeah. The best vampire movie of all time. Really? You'll love it. I'm going to watch it. It's so well done.

I'm going to watch it with my mind. They'll care less of me, my lord. The language of my forefathers. Of course. Maiden's token, I see your bride. Just so, idiot. Yes.

well he wants this guy's wife this is this whole contract this is what this whole thing is about of him going to this guy's town and buying a house there from him like this it really just wants this guy's wife he's like eternally connected to her oh it's creepy as fuck dude

Oh, shit. Oh, I got to watch this. Oh, yeah.

It's good. I got to watch this. Best vampire movie. Is it? I got to watch this. Ever.

Yeah.

Some people disagree. That's fine. My opinion. You ever seen Lost Boys? That was good.

That was fun, though. I can't remember that.

I bet if you watched it today, you'd be like, what? Yeah, you'd be like, yo, this is corny as shit.

John Rollo with long hair, I still believe. With the fucking saxophone. I was, is that you, Rollo? With the saxophone.

There's a Broadway show for it now. Lost Boys, the Broadway show? Oh my God. Dude, first of all, boo Broadway.

I saw Spider-Man. I saw Spider-Man. I saw Rocky, two things I love. It's like going to see a Spider-Man movie with the worst special effects ever. All of a sudden there's a guy swinging and everybody's like, oh. I go, dude, really? Show me the one with Macy Barber in it. Not Macy Barber. Marcy Barber? Macy Barber's a fighter. Who's the black girl that used to sing? Macy Gray. Macy Gray. 100 milligrams. Yep. I was going to see it last night.

There's a Rocky play? It was fucking horrendous. Do they box? Do they pull a ring out and everything? Yeah, it's fucking awful. Wow.

It's like what the movie is, but just what you're picturing on Broadway.

12 or something.

I've never seen anything I liked on that motherfucker. This. This is it. Oh, boom.

Oh, theater people, you're so silly. Dude, I can't stand that. And the guy sucks. He can't box. The beloved Oscar-winning story. Dude, I just... I mean, I assume Stallone did this. I don't know. I mean, he's got to own it. It's a cover story. I'm not into plays. This episode is brought to you by Visible. It's officially summer, folks, and boy, what a summer we are having. It feels like one of those good old-fashioned summers where you just want to enjoy every moment and keep up with the action. Your best companion this summer, Visible.

wireless. Visible gives you unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. So you can make this the summer of fun and savings. Visible is more than just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to always keep you connected with no contract to tie you down. Switch today at visible.com plan start at $25 a month or get our premium Visible plus pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code Rogan. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the home of my website, JoeRogan.com. If you want to level up your business, you got to improve your website. Squarespace gives you everything you need to get a fully custom website, offer services, sell products, and get paid all in one place. Go to squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use code ROGAN to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

I saw Dog Day Afternoon with Jon Bernthal on Broadway. Oh, really? Yeah. How was that? It wasn't bad, though. That guy's really good. He was really good in it. He's really good. He's really good in it. You probably liked that shit, Phil.

Did you ever get into The Punisher?

Did you see The One Last Kill?

Yeah, I watched it. That was good. It's a one-off. You see it? Yeah, it's like an hour long. People think it's a movie. It's not a full movie. It's like a special. That was good. Yeah, I liked it.

That was really good. I liked it. Him in The Daredevil was good. Yeah, he was good. He was real good in that. His first season was okay. Second season wasn't good. But that special was good. If you have to watch one thing, it's like 45 minutes to an hour. I did a watch-along on the Matt Serra channel.

But I did.

That guy's awesome in everything. John Bernthal? Yeah.

Walking Dead, he was amazing. He played such a good, creepy friend. You liked it, right? When he came back to life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was just shit. That was crazy.

I met him a few times in real life. He can scrap a little bit. Yeah, he's a very nice guy.

He was on the podcast. Enjoyed talking to him. Very smart. interesting dude went to school in Russia to learn acting

I mean that's a weird place to learn acting and just so you know while we're on the topic the Punisher's gonna be in Spider-Man brand new day that's coming out is that a movie? yeah the new Spider-Man movie those they just keep swapping out Spider-Man yeah but this Tom Holland Spider-Man he's back in it again he's yet to do a bad Spider-Man movie

there's no job security in being Spider-Man No, hell no. They got another dude waiting in the wings.

Or there is job security. They just brought Tobey Maguire back after 20 years.

Yeah, they did the multiverse thing. But the thing is about Spider-Man is he's supposed to be like a college kid. Yeah. Unfortunately, this guy looks like a little kid. Tom Holland? Yeah. It's the origin story as he starts out as like a college kid. Yeah, he's a high school kid. Maybe he's a high school kid. Yeah. And then his Uncle Ben gets killed and he doesn't stop the guy. You know what else was fun was the spider-man in the wall. Oh, yeah Yeah, it's pretty good Alex dope I thought it was good and you can watch it in color or black and white

They give you the option. Yeah, Nicholas Cage is a fascinating dude, but he's been around forever He's the good Nicholas Cage in this

I think after after that Pascal movie he did what's his name was in the title. It's like I don't know being Nicolas Cage That movie brought him back. It was like a fiction for Travolta like right take them back off again. What is that movie? It was a great where the Pedro Pascal is like a drug dealer guy who's a big fan of Nicolas Cage And he winds up like hiring him to come to his house to do something and then he gets Cage is hemmed up in the cartel business the unbearable weight of massive talent That's what it's called. Is that it is that the name? Yeah, yeah, there it is see being Nick fucking cage So that's a great B plus. That's not bad. It was good. It was good. Yeah, I'll check that out. I

Watched part of it. I never got through the whole thing. No, it's just busy But it looks hilarious. Yeah, it's pretty premise is hilarious You know you're like an actor and you get these gigs like cuz people do things like that They'll like show up at people's houses and parties like someone wants to pay you a million dollars to go to Dubai And you're like, okay, so they fly to Dubai Then they have dinner with people and hang out with them and meet them and people just cut them a check damn Yeah, where can I get that? I know it's weird. Yeah, it's uh There's there's you know, so like Nicolas Cage like that probably would happen where the cartel guy was like that guy He's my favorite

Like, remember when Sean Penn met El Chapo? Right. He was hanging with El Chapo and did an article for Rolling Stone magazine where he talked about meeting El Chapo in Mexico. No shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just Brandon. Do you remember when Conor was wearing the El Chapo shirt and he tried to do the pictures just like El Chapo did? Those were the pictures that he did with Sean Penn. No shit. Yes. That's the shirt. That's what Conor, when Conor's doing that, that's what he's doing. He's mocking that. That's hilarious. Speaking of Conor, how well does he do next week? Boy, we're going to find out. We're really going to find out what's going on if it gets into the second and third rounds. That's what we're really going to find out. We'll know. We'll know immediately. At that point. But I mean, whether or not he can really fight for five rounds. I don't know if he can, man. Against a guy with a great gas tank.

After five years of tearing your body up.

You don't know, right? because it's all in a vacuum. There's some training footage of him beating guys up that you've seen, but who knows what he actually has been doing. We know he's been partying, but has he also been really training? Because if he's been really training, and he shocks everybody because he's still got his skills. I mean, my God, if he somehow or another sparks out Max in the first round, do you know how big he becomes? Oh, he's right back. Right back. Oh, right back. Like, right back, him and Justin Gaethje, the biggest fight in the history of the known universe. That would be sick. They go for the BMF title at 1-7. Because Conor's like, I don't want to cut any weight. That fight would be crazy.

My only concern is his size. Like, Max struggled with bigger dudes. Like, Dustin the first time, then Max came back bigger. Which we know, because when he went back down, he struggled, you know, with Orlovsky. You know, I mean, he went five rounds with Justin. So, like, I'm just waiting to see, is Conor able to put that fucking weight on him and have a problem?

Is he a bigger dude, though? They both fought at the same weight class. Yeah, they did start at 45. When Max was fighting at 145 when he was a champion, he was walking around like 176. He's a big guy. He's a bigger guy. He's big.

I mean, I love Max, so, like, it's hard for me to believe Conor's coming back.

I follow Max on YouTube. He's got a great channel. also recording all of his training and all the stuff he's doing. And, you know, you see him. He looks good, dude. He looks big. Dustin Poirier thinks Max might be bigger. Really? Yeah. I mean, he's taller. He's been with both of them. He says he's kind of thin, but he's got a bigger frame. He thinks he's going to be bigger than Gunnar.

I mean, he came to my gym a couple times, and he's like my height, basically.

I think he made a big mistake going back to 45 after he did 55.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it's too hard. I think it's just too hard on the body. And especially when he got, he was a thick 55 when he fought Justin. He looked good, man. He looked solid at that weight. I think him fighting at that weight, he could actually fight. I think going down to 45, I think he was fighting. It looked to me like he was compromised. Like I think the weight cut was just too much.

Do you think the Justin fight and Max is different if he doesn't get caught with that kick early in the face? 100%. You know what I'm saying? Like I would like to see that fight without Justin's compromise right, but I mean that's what the beautiful thing about moves like that

Yeah, that was the intention right could have been a K Yeah, right. It shattered the bones of his nose. Yeah, so that for sure I mean, but then you know you think you'd see the way Max looked at 145 when he fought Ilya But then you got also factor in also he's fighting Ilya and Ilya is so fucking good like you look bad Like there's a lot of guys who don't look he could glance combinations on people and a lot of guys look bad doesn't mean they're bad I'd like to see max and Justin again if max pulls it off But then again like what are you gonna do for Elia like if Elia wants a rematch?

Like I don't think I don't know how to justify that I don't believe so I think you give him patty if patty wins That's what I think that's what his next fight should be I think maybe I think patty wins

Wait a minute, you think Paddy beats Ilya?

No, I think he beats St. Denis to get to Ilya. I think he gets hit way too much to beat Ilya. Well, Ilya's sharp. He's so sharp with his striking.

I re-watched that fight again.

Yeah, I like Paddy in this one. St. Denis is not an easy one. I don't think he's easy. Bro, St. Denis is a beast. I just think his Paddy striking's a little better and his jiu-jitsu's better. I think the only place St. Denis has the advantages into the wrestling, just my opinion.

I don't know, man. Sunday knee switch camps and then made that big adjustment after he lost to Who'd he lost to? Moikano? Yeah, after the Moikano fight. He's looked a lot better.

If Paddy puts him on his back at all, like I don't, does Saint Denis train off his back? Because it didn't look like it in that Moikano match. Mmm. Paddy and Ilya would be huge. Hell yeah. Because they have history too. That's right, they got beef. That's the fight. Yeah. That would be a meta fight.

That's the fight you make. Do that shit in London?

I think that's the right comeback fight for Ilya.

And also, Joe's like, I'm going. Oh, my God. Now I don't want to get caught in a riot.

Not for anything. Be careful. They lock you up for your social media when you get over there.

They would, too.

They were shitting on Patty when he lost to Justin. And, you know, he got compromised also that first round. I believe he got poked in the eye or whatever else. Whatever case, he went five with him. Yeah, he did go five with him.

And, you know, and got battered and stood up to great shots. And he's going to come out of that fight better. He'll know, okay, there's more work to be done. There's holes I have in my game. There's places where I got caught.

And he has improved over his, like, when he first got there, I didn't really think much of him. But each time out, I think he gets a little better. Yeah, dude, for sure. It's just Justin's in. Yeah, Justin's a savage. He's a dog, dude. He's my favorite fighter rat, you know, been for a minute. Yeah, no doubt. Because he's just always in a great fight.

The White House is insane. And especially after you see that second round. I re-watched it again. When Ilya was putting it on him in that second round, I'm like, oh, those liver punches. I know. Like, how does he come back from this? More than one, too. So beautiful, though, too. Like, the way he delivers those shots, man. Just clean. You know who else does it like that? Aaron Pico. Yeah, he does great. Great body work. Yeah, 100%.

I'm glad that he's got to show his stuff. Me, too. He looked great his last fight. He looked great. Yeah, Pico. Because that was one of those guys He was fighting Pitbull Who's like a real legend But the way he mixed it together The striking and the wrestling Was really good He just got crazy in his debut

And he just got a little too hyped up A little too aggressive against a guy Who's way too skilled

He's a hunter I love that he's so aggressive But that was a great comeback fight Fuck yeah it was Because it shows that he's still in there You get worried when you see people get their lights put out like that. You're like, are they going to ever be the same? And then when you see him come back into a fight like that, being so intelligent, that's a good sign.

But he has to make sure his defense is always good because his chin is still suspect. Regardless of how good his skill is, he still don't have a chin.

Well, he's been knocked out a bunch of times. I mean, after a certain amount of times, it's easier to get knocked out. And you've got to know he's been knocked out in training.

I always believe part of your chin is believing you can't be knocked out. And then when it happens to you that first time, instead of when you get your bell rung, you bite that on your mouthpiece, now you're like, oh, shit, not again. Like, I think mentally it's different, you know?

There's something to that probably. But then there's also like a cro-cop head kick.

Well, if you get hit on the button, you get hit on the fucking button.

Yeah, there's like certain shit that violates your beliefs. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Nobody twice see red, bro. It's a fact. A clang. It's in Barbossa, wheel kicks you. I remember that one. And that was in Brazil when Edson Barboza. Terry Adam? Yeah, he had a good one, too. That's one of those where you go, I don't think that guy's ever going to be the same.

I don't think he was the same after that. No.

I thought it right then and there. I was like, I think that was too hard. It's a wrap. Yeah, that was too hard. That's a different shot.

And you've seen it where guys, they get one, and then they're still in there, and then you see them get a couple, and then next thing you know, their chin is gone. It's just not. Listen, Chuck Liddell's mentally strong. You know what I mean? I mean, you don't think he's being like, I wonder if this is going to, you know, that's just his body saying, his body's trying to protect him.

Yeah, his body's saying enough of this. And it's also the, apparently it's the lining inside your brain, all that fascia tears over time and repeated head traumas and just, there's a lot of swashing around. So when you get dinged, your brain is literally going without shock absorbers bouncing off the inside of your skull. That might not be the technical way that a neurosurgeon would describe it.

hey man listen all those height jokes i was like a little armadillo i was covering that little motherfucker unless i'm running into a back fist i was okay but uh it's so funny how everything just evolves when i got stopped with the first i was the first guy ever to get stopped with a back fist and when i did the people were like yo this guy must suck nobody gets stopped with that shit now you see it on every card people getting stopped with back

To we used to have these conversations like Eddie Bravo and I at the beginning of the UFC about stuff that works That's not in there yet. Like what about this? What about that? And you know the big one that I missed on what's that front kick to the face Before Anderson Silva front kick feet toward the face. I'm like that shit doesn't work. Nobody does nobody does that Yeah, no, I don't know. Yeah, too hard to land. Yeah, then it's I don't even know why I thought that You say you really thought that for a little bit because I was like it's not worth it I was like that it's so powerful to the body. I was like, that's really where you should use it because you could land It's a big target and you could really fuck a guy up You get your most power with a front kick going straight and I was like to the face. It's like too hard to hit

Well, I thought that way. Machida. Yeah, Machida and Randy.

Yeah, Machida and Randy. I think it was like Vitor first, or Anderson Vitor first. I think that was the first one when we saw a real spectacular front kick knock out to the face. But then it was Machida and Randy, and then a bunch of people started doing it. And then front kicks of the face became like a spam.

Thanks Sensei Seagal for that. How about Michael Chandler, Tony first? Oh, that was a bad one. That might be one of the worst ones ever.

Yeah, or Chito Rivera, Frankie Edgar.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was another one.

Front kicks to the face are brutal. I just didn't see that coming. I really, because in martial arts tournaments, most people were throwing them to the body and not throwing them to the face. Even in kickboxing, not a whole lot of guys were throwing them to the face.

You know, with Michael Chandler, I remember talking to him. He said he didn't even practice that. He just says he just saw the opening and just threw the kick.

That's so crazy. That's wild. Yeah. That's so crazy. I mean, I think, too, once a successful technique gets out there and people see it, then all of a sudden, hey, I can fucking do that.

Yeah, 100%. He had a rough outing the last one, Mike.

Yeah, that was a tough fight, man. I mean, that was a bad matchup. That's Dana saying, Mike, it's time for you to retire.

Mike is 40. Hoofie is in his prime, and he might be the scariest striker at 170. Yeah, he's in the south. Or 155, rather. And by the way, giant for 55. I know. gigantic like rangy yeah good movement he's fucking good bro he hit him with like three

wheel kicks yeah yeah he was just i mean it was target practice it's crazy how good he is and you

talk about that taekwondo movement he has that exactly but with boxing hands so it's crazy yeah

you know i mean gotta tighten up the wrestling the jiu-jitsu and that's why he lost to ben wasa and denis but that was a good learning experience like when you see a guy who's that good fucking everybody up you know the way he put out king oh that was real bad he does it like a video game and i thought that was gonna be a decent and by the way the fazeeb knockout apparently he was like sick as a dog before the fight was they were talking about pulling out of the fight no shit and he just took the fight anyway and had one of the best performances of his career Bro, that guy, he's elite. And training with Volkanovski?

I know. Only going to make him better. Perfect. Yeah, for sure.

What better guy? Like wrestling strong, like animal featherweight that was like the king for so many years, won the crown again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stick around with that guy. He'll show you how to get up. He'll show you how to not get taken down.

And Volkanovski, you know, he don't have much left in him. Right, so he's going to want to coach guys. Yeah, he's going to want to, like, pass it on.

And you've got the perfect guy to pass it on to. He's got a great fight IQ. Very well-rounded, too. Volkanovski? Yeah.

Yeah, I think he's one of my favorite in terms of –

Yeah, he really grew on me. I didn't like him because of Max. You know, I was always rooting for Max. But, you know, he's earned my respect. That guy is just – he's good. He's good everywhere too. He really is.

The dude I got my eyes on the most is Carlos Protes. Oh, man. I got my eyes on him the most. He's so accurate. Dude, that's so accurate. That Jack De La Modellina KO was crazy. I know. Jack is so fucking good. And he's so tough. He's so tough. And you watch Carlos just tee off on him.

He picked him apart. Looked like target practice for him against such a high-level guy. He was having fun.

I know. Ain't that the worst part?

Dude, Morales is a savage, too, still. I know.

But that fight, save that fight. Morales versus Protas, save that fight. Wait till it's ready. Not yet. It's like, don't pull the brisket out of the smoker just yet.

I was telling Matt, I saw some grappling footage of Morales. I mean, he looked pretty fucking good.

Well, he has a wrestling background, and if there's a way he's going to get Protas, it's going to probably be a combination of those things. Because Protas just wants a stand. Yeah, of course. And he's built like, if you had an engineer, like a long-range striker, his torso is as big as all legs and arms. Oh, and he's so accurate. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. When we think of mental health, it can come with a lot of judgment. Like, guys always face this shame around showing emotion. that crying means you're weak. Those stigmas are changing, but slowly. BetterHelp's state of stigma report surveyed 2,000 Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe that getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discourages people from doing so. That may seem like a disheartening statistic, but help is closer than most people think. Keep the conversations around mental health going empower people to go to therapy better help is a great starting point it's one of the largest online therapy platforms with a network of thousands of licensed therapists don't let stigma stand in the way of support start therapy with better help sign up and get 10% off at better help.

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He had his best round, the fifth round, versus Ian Machado Gary. Yeah. He came back like a bat out of hell.

And really had him hurt bad.

He might get outpointed, but he's calm in bad positions, and he's always fucking dangerous. That was the last, and you're thinking maybe he's a chain smoker or something that he's, or he smokes cigarettes. The fifth round, man, he had Ian in trouble.

He's good, dude. And he's, he hit so fucking hard. When he KO'd Leon, I was like, whoa. I know. Leon's good. He's a good striker. To KO Leon like that, clean, was crazy. They got a crazy room. Was it the Fight Nerds, they called themselves? Yeah, Fight Nerds. And Hoofty was there. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm he trains with them and he trains with other people as well like protes moves around But he you know, he had a giant and my Muay Thai record rather. I know shit Yeah, like how many Muay Thai fights in Carlos protests have like world-class like I've watched a bunch of his just pure Muay Thai fights and the comfort level that he has in there Exchanging and moving and knowing where he's supposed to be and not to be that like sensitivity that he asked like striking exchanges because world-class muay thai is such an advantage yeah i would favor him if he fought ian gary again perhaps because i would hurt him yeah he knows he has to like try to get it on him

yeah can't point fight him do you think that islam's gonna just have his way or do you think

ian uh gary has a shot there he definitely has a shot i mean so he had 29 muay thai wins uh five Losses so 34 Muay Thai fights and Like high level man you watch him fight and you're like okay this guy he can fucking He he knows where to be where not to be and he knows how to like piece people up man It's like when you have that high level We've seen it so many times with these guys are like world champ like Alex see these world champion kickboxers They entered to MMA like nobody has a chance standing with them. It's like it's too scary. Yeah, and that's what you're seeing with Carlos It's like, fuck, man. What he did to JDM, I was like, holy shit.

I mean, he was having fun. He was just playing with him. Having a good time.

I was like, what? Beating the shit out of the former world champion, having a good time. Just smashing him. Stopped him. Had him screaming from calf kicks. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas he went to his corner and they're like, no, ah, don't fucking scream. They're telling him to not scream. Yeah. Well, you didn't just get kicked in the same spots six times. Fuck you. You know how tough that dude is? His nose is on the left side of his face. And you're saying, that guy? Toughen up? That's a fact.

That was one of those. I had him when he was getting him up against the cage. I was fucking flinching. I'm like, hear it? It's coming. Because you know it's coming, but you just don't know where it's coming from.

And those knees to the body are so nasty. Protas is so nasty. He's so good, man. And he's getting better, too. And now he's starting to do this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, he's feeling it. He feels like he's the best guy in the world right now.

Yeah, I feel like he's the scariest guy in that division.

I think so. He's the scariest. But it doesn't mean he's going to be the best. Right. The bottom line about Islam is no one's able to get away from him. He gets a hold of you. He's very good standing up now. His wrestling's great. And he gets a hold of you. You're at fucksville. He has a different kind of wrestling. Different kind of grappling. Well, if Ian can't keep him off of him, I don't see how he beats him on the ground. His submissions are fucking insane, too. He's he's just got a vice grip man. I know everybody that he rolls with or everybody that he fights rather they all say I've never been grabbed like that. Never been never felt anybody that strong. Who's that Islam Islam? Yeah I don't know if it's the same at 70, but he's so big. I can't imagine. It's not

It's not like he's a little seven. Yeah, it's like cuz he's he's tall Yeah, he's got a good frame on him

I think he's gonna be better at 70 because he's not gonna be depleted Because when I would stand next to him in the octagon when he was the 55 pound champion

You're like, how? How do you weigh 55? That doesn't even make any sense. You're 190 pounds right now. Guaranteed. If I put you on a scale, you weigh 190.

You're fucking so big. I think Ian's going to make it competitive early, you know, because he's got good footwork. He moves side to side really good. He's long. But if he gets taken down twice, and then it becomes a habit of him getting taken down, he won't get back up. He won't.

If. But the thing is, if Ian Gary can get off sharp combinations early, he could stun him. Yeah, yeah. Because Ian can move. He's fast as fuck. Fast as fuck, and he's super accurate. And the way he throws his strikes is, like, real clean. No fat in his mood. Pop-pop! Everything's like, da-pop! He's very responsible. Yeah, he's not, like, a physically overpowering guy. It's technique. His technique is sharp.

Did you see his interaction that time with Kamzat? Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? There was a little too much of a pat on the back. That's what the fuck I'm talking about. Kamzat wasn't wrong. And I like Ian. I don't go against him. There's like a pat on the back where they're kind of halfway hissing you. He went up to him. You think he was trying to check him? You know, you got something coming up. Oh, you feel strong.

There's a weird thing when you hit me a little too hard on the back. There's a hug, and then there's a slap slap. Yeah, yeah. Where there's a slap slap that's a little aggressive.

Trying to show some male dominance here? Are you trying to show out for me?

What are you trying to do? You don't like me? Are you hitting me? It feels like you're hitting me a little bit. Yeah. Like, if you hit a woman in the face like that, you'd go to jail. Right? You're hitting me in the back, but if you're like, hey, where's my fucking spaghetti?

And you double slap her in the back. I'll tell you right now, I don't even like, from so many right hands, see this little, see this thing right here that's bumping out? Yeah, it's broken. I don't like, yeah, I fucked it up on Shoney's head, but I don't like when guys try to, when you first meet somebody, and they try to squeeze, because I want to smack them right there. Because I feel pain with that shit

What are we looking at? No, he's talking about the Hamzat

No, that's Shavkat How dare you Are you racist? Are you racist? I'm like, what are we looking at? No, it was Jamie wasn't at a fight It was like I honestly Felt bad for Hamzat Trying to make 185 from all that I heard before the Strickland fight, like, he almost died. To make 185? Yeah, when he made 185, when he fought Strickland. Really? Yeah. He was apparently thinking that he was going to go up to light heavyweight. Oh. And they were even talking about him fighting Yuri. Okay. And so he was preparing like he was going up to light heavyweight. And if you watch, he's another guy who's got a great YouTube channel. He details all his training. He was hanging out with that Calavita guy, doing a lot of the cardio and strength. There it is. Like, he gave him – I think it was before that, though. Yeah, before that, yeah. I think it was, like, good job tonight, good job. And I think he slapped him on the back before that. Or maybe it was after. I don't know what it was. But it was enough. So, like, he's fine now. Like, they seem cool. Oh, no, no. Talking a little shit. Right here he gets pissed and pushes him. He's a champion, don't worry. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Hamza doesn't like – Well, I mean, he didn't give him that little squeeze on his shoulder. Yeah, that was not necessarily. Chechnya is not America. Right. Okay? Dudes that come from Chechnya, that is a war-torn country, and those motherfuckers don't play. Yeah, he read it right. Short temper. The guy who runs it is Hamzat's homie, which is like, okay.

So much so, he lets him tap him out.

Yeah. It's ridiculous. But that's how it goes. You know, you got to do what you got to do. But I like the fight. I think Ian has a real chance.

I do, too. I think early he does. But if he gets taken down repeatedly, I think it's bad.

If he gets taken down, he might just get smushed. He might just get choked and smushed and choked. I don't know.

Yeah, he struggled with Shavkot on the ground.

He did. But, again, that's a couple of years ago. It's not like he's not getting better. I mean, that dude.

He's smart. Like, he knows how to get himself prepared for a fight.

I just think his edge is on the feet, obviously. So, I think that's where he, if he's going to win, that's where he will.

I don't know why people don't like him.

I love him.

I think he's awesome. He also almost finished Shavkot with a rear naked choke, if I remember correctly. Does that really? Yeah, he did. He did have Shavkot in the back. Yeah, he had his back. Ooh, I forgot about that. I forgot about that. I mean, that was the closest anybody came to finishing.

He also fucked up Shavkot's knee.

Yeah.

He hit him with that oblique kick to the knee, and that's the reason why Shavkot had to get surgery. Really? And he's had two surgeries since. Yeah. Like, Ian even made a post about it. Yeah.

Damn.

That's so rude. So rude. This is why he had to get surgery. He's like, I think Ian made a post. I saw a post that maybe somebody attributed to Ian, but it was his work. I mean, look, it's a legal technique, and he's really good at it. And the way he throws it.

that oblique way sideways to the knee, that's fucking devastating. And he's long enough to do it. He just kind of, yeah, man, for sure. John Jones style. But he's like, the way he can move in with combinations is very hard to deal with. But even he had to fucking grab MVPs. Like, fuck this. I know, right, yeah. Even him, yeah, even him, yeah, for sure. That's what I'm talking about, where you can't hit them. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, what am I doing here?

But that's why I like Ian, in terms of, think about that. He's able to solve them problems. His IQ is so high, he's beating guys like MVP and Carlos Protes, guys that other people can't beat.

Very true. Very true. Look at that. There it is right there. That's it right there, man. Can you back it up again so we hit it right there? Oh, my God, dude. Damn, that's a fucked up.

Look how bad that is. Don't throw anything. I used to do that ACL. That's it right there. Boom. I used to do that on the wooden dummy. That's a Wing Chun. See, there you go. Those Wing Chun works. That's a stomp kick. Yeah, it is a stomp kick.

It's real. It's real. Wing Chun works. Proof. Bro, Gary's no joke, man. He's fucking dangerous. And that style of being that tall is so hard to deal with. Matt, my short brother, you know what I'm talking about.

Dude, let me tell you something. Especially little trolls like us. They'd always try to latch onto my head.

Yeah, it's just so hard to even spar with tall guys because they can hit you from six inches further away than you can hit them. That's a lot of space. Yeah, you've got to come in behind that double, triple jam. I love the fact that you can do anything and you should be able to kick to the knees. I hate the fact that it blew his knee out. We really haven't seen him the same since. I mean, he's been two surgeries now. Two surgeries. I think he had one fight after that, right? Did he have one more fight?

He's had the, didn't he have a bad car accident or something like that, too? Did he? Yeah, Shavkot. Did he? I thought so. I don't know.

Maybe I'm wrong.

I hope not. Or maybe it was just his family.

Maybe. I don't know. I hope he's okay. I just missed the guy in the octagon. He's fucking good, man. Chavcott was good. It's just like one technique can change your whole career.

Yeah, I thought he was coming back, like, trying to rehab from whatever, from the accident. Oh, so it was the accident? I mean, look, he, obviously. Well, first it was. That hurt his leg. For sure.

For sure, first he had ACL surgery before that. So he might have got an accident after that. Maybe that's what happened.

Maybe he redid it.

Fuck, dude, that sucks. He's so good. But then again, it's like this fucking sport waits for no one. These dudes are coming up, coming up. You know what I'm bummed that got canceled this weekend is Ethan Ewing.

Oh, yeah. That kid's good, dude. He's so good. Yeah, that was going to be a good— That kid was fighting his first slouch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He came onto the scene, and it was a short-notice fight versus Wellmaker at Madison Square Garden. Yeah. And Wellmaker—and Wellmaker's having a hard time lately. He lost his last one, too. And he's a better fighter than that. So he's a young kid, so we'll see the best from him yet.

Well, he came out so spectacular, Wellmaker did. He looked so good in his debut. And he looks like he's in on the Contender Series. He looks like he's really good. But fucking Ethan, you're slick. He's really good.

He's slick. Real good, yeah.

And he's another guy, like we're talking about, like this new breed of guys, like the Sanhagans. He's constantly switching stances, constantly giving you different angles and directions. It's like very hard to pattern them.

Is he on the Conor card, too, right? He was.

Sanhagen is.

Yeah, Sanhagen is fighting Bautista.

Yeah, but he was. Ethan was on the card, and I think they pulled him off.

Yeah, the dude he's fighting was undefeated. There it is, Basarat. Yeah, fuck. And Basarat's good. That's a really good fight. He's tall, rangy. That would have been interesting.

Can we see the rest of the card?

He's injured. He'll be back. But I like the fact that he's not fighting injured, too. Because it's a pretty significant injury. And so when these guys, they say, fuck it, I'll just do it. And then you have one loss, and then that loss leads you. You know, your career can go down a weird road. It's a pretty good card. It's a very good card. It is a good card. Benoit and Saint Denis and Patty Pimblitt. Right. That's right. And then Connor Max Halle.

Gable Steveson is on this one too, right? Yep. Yeah, there you go.

It was going around that he was going to fight Josh Hokett. I was like, please don't make that be true. Yeah. But he's a minus 2,500. Robert Whitaker and Nikita Krylov is good, too, man. Robert is going from 170 to 85 to now light heavyweight. Isn't that crazy?

And he's not that big. Not that big? No. Is he like 6'1"? He's pretty short.

Not even. No? No. Six? How tall is Robert? Six feet tall? Yeah, six. So he's a thick fella. Yeah. Definitely got to be walking around at like 230 or something like that. But these guys are so tall and so rangy and that fucking Nikita Krylov guy can kick

Yeah, he's a legit 205. Yeah

Cody still was lighten up Yuri in that fight before he got caught remember mm-hmm. Yeah, he was lighting Yuri up

Sure, yeah. Cody, I don't think it's time to. Cody Garbrandt?

Adrian Yanez, man, he went through a bad streak too, but that dude's very skillful, very good boxer.

Yeah, he looked good in his last one.

What's Cody doing too? What is this thing on his eye? Is he angry that he's good looking? Yanez is, yeah.

Is he angry?

Yeah, he's got to doctor it up. The kids these days, they like face tattoos. Yanez's 450 favorite. That's what I'm saying. Minus 450 is nuts.

Cody's chin, man. And he's just been too many times, too many times.

Well, that's an age thing, too. I mean, Cody's not actually that old. I think he's only like 33. How old is Cody Garbrandt? 33? No, he's got to be older than that. I don't think he's old. No, I don't think he's old. I think he started his career at 34. 34? Oh, my God. Yeah, see, I think he started his career really young. 35.

Dude, fucking Max. 35 now?

Oh, July 7th? Yeah, next week. Oh, so next week.

Max started. He was, what, 19? This guy's still good. Right.

Yeah, well, you know, when I interviewed them for the UFC at the White House, which is the most ridiculous thing in the world, I'm sitting there in this beautiful adorned room with gold on the ceiling and shit like that, and on a chair with a camera in front of me, and then there's a monitor here that's Conor, and there's a monitor there that's Max, and they're arguing with each other. You won't lay a glove on me. It's like, there you go. There you go.

It was crazy to see the two of them going back and forth. It's fun seeing Conor come back, man. I know. He's fun. I mean, he is the world's greatest shit talker. He cracked me up, man. He was cracking me up. I can't wait till fight week.

It's going to be amazing. Look, I hope he looks great. I hope it's a good fight. But, you know, it's a tall order to take on Max Holloway after he was just the BMF champion. He beat Dustin Poirier. Yeah, he lost to Ilya. But, like, you look at the wins that that guy's had in his career and how he's looked since their first fight. This is a totally different human being. Yeah. This is a world champion, like one of the all-time featherweight greats. I think if Conor don't knock him out early, he's in for a long night. Max can fight with no weight cut, no weight cut. Max might never get tired. People are saying, oh, yeah, but what about moving up?

I'm like, that's great for him.

He don't have to cut no weight. Great for him. It's great for both of them. Listen, this is the future, I would hope. I would hope guys would abandon weight cutting. I really do. And I think the UFC should accommodate it by letting go of these ridiculous weight limits. Let's just find out what guys weigh. Let's find out what guys weigh and have them fight. Have them fight at what they weigh.

Does one still do that? I mean, that was the way to go.

We weigh you in at the beginning of the year, and then this is where you're going to fight. I would run things like one, because they also allow steroids, allegedly. I might have just made that up. I don't want to get slandered. I don't want to get sued. I don't think they do. I think they have drug tests at one. I think it's like a multiple choice. Multiple choice. I want guys to take testosterone. None of the above. I want them to take peptides. I want them to take everything they have. I want to give them a hyperbaric chamber. Like, let's go, boys. And then just release them. Yeah, release the hounds. I want the best fighting that's humanly available.

The old fucking pride days.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I want the enhanced games MMA bouts. Yes.

But with Conor and Max, one guy, even in his prime, And Conn has always shown signs that, you know, his endurance was never the best. He's a sprinter. And Max is, man, he's the guy in the last round, he's winning a fight. Max is still sprinting. 30 seconds, he's pointed. Yeah, he's fresh. Fresh as a daisy. His fifth round is as good as his first round.

Max's discipline is beyond compare. Like, that motherfucker trains hard. I mean, you might train just as hard, but there ain't harder. There ain't harder.

The craziest one was when he put it on Calvin Cater, and he was just talking shit. Yeah, yeah, we were there. I'm the best boxer in the UFC. It was so crazy.

I was watching that cage sign, and him looking away, talking, and hitting him was just something.

Bro, how about Brian Ortega, when he was fighting him, showing him how to keep his hands up? Oh, Jesus. He grabs him, grabs his hand, and puts it by his head. He's like, no, do it like this. He can block it. And then pops him with a jab again. Bro. Max Holloway's a bad motherfucker, dude. 100%. And, you know, I think it's going to be interesting to see. Look, Conor in his prime was elite. Conor Eddie Alvarez, if it was that Conor right now fighting Max, I'd be like, holy shit. Yeah, that's different. That's different. But can he regain that form? Right. We don't know. I mean, he's a special dude. Look at this. Just pop. Talking shit to him. Dana was losing his mind over there. Yeah. There's also COVID, so you could kind of hear him, right? Yeah, 100%. Oh, look at that. Look at that right hand. Look at it. He wasn't even looking at it.

He was slipping shit.

I'm the best boxer in the UFC. Look at this. Bro, he's such a bad motherfucker. Man. And if he starts talking to...

Conor like that in the middle of the fight and teeing off on him, if Conor gets tired, it could get rough.

Look at his last fight with Dustin.

Yeah. The difference is Conor, I don't give a fuck if he's 39. I don't care how old he is. That dude's got the touch.

Yeah, he does.

He's got the touch of death.

And he's very accurate.

And he's accurate, and he's fast as fuck. And when he's sprinting, when he's sprinting, he moves quicker than anybody. And it's like you can't do that for five rounds, but if he does it and cracks you, you're on fucksville. Look what he did to Aldo. Who the fuck's ever done that to Aldo? That's the touch.

Do you think there's any chance that Conor wrestles him? I think Conor might try to wrestle him a little bit. That's what Nate said. All of a sudden he wanted to turn into a wrestler. Maybe looking at that and then maybe seeing it.

I don't see that. I think Max has got to put it on him a little bit, and then he'll shoot because he's not in it for war. That's going to get him even more tired. He did it in his first fight. He wrestled him.

We say he's not in it for war, but he can surprise us, man. Like, you know, the humiliation of losing that second fight to Dustin with a broken leg and sitting there and having to go out for all the Who knows how he responded to that? Obviously, he did a lot of parting We don't know what kind of training, you know And if he really is still the Conor McGregor that had something to prove when he entered into the UFC And he can get himself into that mindset and get through a camp with that mindset Who knows, man? I mean, he definitely looked focused as fuck when I was talking to him in the interview It doesn't really mean anything until you actually see him move around. But if he really prepared himself correctly, he wants to make a stand and show that he can still do it, this might get wild.

But if that's the strategy, fuck, man. If he's worried about his endurance already or if that's a question, if that's the strategy, it's not like he's going to take him down and just smoke him. Max has a ground game. Max's jiu-jitsu has gotten so much better. Look what he survived with Charles Oliveira.

So it's not like he's going to take him down and just smoke him. Right. I would like to talk to Kavanaugh and see what was the plan. Like, what did you guys do? How long was the camp? Like, how did it start? What was he doing before the camp?

Yeah, so I had talked to Laura Sanko, who interviewed Kavanaugh.

Oh, okay.

And she said that he wouldn't say it, but he kind of alluded to that wrestling might be a part of the game plan.

Well, that might be a ruse. Yeah. Yeah. That might be to lure. Because the way that Charles handled Max in the last fight was crazy. But also, that's Charles. That's what I'm saying. Just get ready.

Nobody else took Max down like that. Charles is a fucking monster on the ground.

Charles is Charles.

He's so good on the ground, man. Max had to survive some shit that other people would have tapped.

And here's what's crazy. Islam smushed him. I know. Right? Right? There's crazy levels to this sport. Yeah, true. Islam smushed him. I know. He got him to the ground. Made him look bad. Made him look bad. He was tapping like immediately. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I ain't getting out of this. I'm going night-night. That's how good he is. I mean, when he got Drew Dober in half guard. Oh, I know. When he got that arm triangle from half guard. He's like, there ain't no half guard here. This is just smush. Yeah, pressure. That pressure is fucking phenomenal. Incredible squeeze. He just cuts off the blood. There's nothing you can do about it. That forearm grip Darce that he uses, do you fuck with that? I don't mess with that, but I know how powerful it is.

Do you fuck with it, Matt? No, that was never my thing. the anacondas and the dorses because we're short-armed a little actually what the fuck is

to problem me with these things you know these are great for some things but not for dorses

but it should be better for y'all because like all y'all have to do is grip here yeah i never

tried it though but i did used to like the japanese necktie for the same reason because the japanese necktie when you're funneling under for when you go for that underhook on the left arm and you get it behind the head you cinch down like this and then instead of trying to go all the way through and cinch it up as a darse you take it from this position with this lever on the back of the neck and you tuck the neck into your chest okay and then you grab a leg you grab a leg and you do this yeah lean on this shoulder so you once you cinch it up as soon as you get this forearm behind the neck the first thing to do is you put your left shoulder to the mat so your left shoulder you drop down the mat and usually they they think they're going to spin out of it but you're trapping the head and the chest your shoulder to the floor right there's a video of There's a video of me showing it to T.J. Dillashaw. We're at the Onnit headquarters, and I'm showing him how to do it. It's great for short-armed dudes. Wait, you're on his back, you're saying? No, you're on the darts position, right? So he's got the underhook, you funnel underhook, you get it behind the head. Once you get it behind the head, you use this lever, you pin that down on the neck, and the first thing I want to do is put my left shoulder over on the top. Oh, here it is. So here it is. So once you get to this position and you clip, I want to put my shoulder down, and then his head is trapped. Is that a neck crank? 100%. It's horrible. Are you hipping in? Yes. And you usually grab a hold of a leg. You can just step over. It's right there. Jamie, back it up to where I'm showing it to him, and then I talk through it. Back it up a little bit. Yeah, there it is. Give me some volume. Okay, but try this, though. The difference between what you're doing and what I'm doing is I'm going on to my left shoulder. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. Once you've got this, if I hook this leg, I'm going on to my left shoulder. Yeah. So I'm all the way sideways. Okay, yeah, yeah. So there's a tremendous... So you're hooking a leg even before you fall down, too. Yes, immediately. Yeah, because you won't be able to get it if you fall down before. Exactly. So as soon as I cinch my hands together, I'm hooking a leg. Yeah. I want to tie him up. Yeah. I want to tie him up, and I want to get him in a position where he thinks he's going to roll out of it like you would with Adaris. But you can't roll out of it. You can't now. You already got the leg. Exactly. Also, because I'm trapping your head in my chest. So you're just worried about me getting this, but I'm not even trying to get that. I'm just getting to this. Can you hear some volume right here?

Dude, that's a... Would you get it?

See, people like when they put their legs in there. That's what he was just saying. That's why it's really good. That cranks that neck. Is that Danny Castillo? Yeah. Yeah. You very rarely see this in the UFC, and it's available, too, because also the gloves, they get in the way of certain chokes, like definitely rear naked chokes. It's so hard to get the hand in the proper position with the back of the hand on the head. Does it matter which leg you step over?

He stepped over the first. You stepped over the far leg.

The far leg's better. You get better control, but it doesn't matter. as long as you can tie him up and trap his head inside your chest. So once the head's in the chest, you're in a terrible position to defend because it puts your head at this nasty angle. Like the moment your head gets to that angle, so TJ's showing like one of the ways that he does it. I'm about to say his grip is different from yours. He's trying a different grip. He's trying a different grip. I like my grip better. Well, it's not my grip. It's Eddie Bravo's grip. But I like the grip better because you've got the lever. So the thing is about having it go through, this lever when you get this forearm on the back of the neck, That's a lot of power. There's a lot of power that way. So if you see how I'm doing, I'm doing it like a little bit different.

Well, yours too, you're all on his head and neck. TJ is cradling him almost. That's it.

So he did it that way now, like in that time. Now he's doing it the right way. That's nasty. And then once he gets in the chest, yep, trap the leg. He can trap either leg. The whole thing is just trapping the head. You just want to make sure you have contact with his body so his left legs, or his legs rather, can't spin out. You don't want him spinning out because then his head's going to get free. It's nasty. But it's just I don't see it in MMA, and I don't know why, because it's available when guys are trying to get the darts and they can't get it. Like there's a lot of times the legs are tangled up, and it's horrible because you have this level. You remember when Khabib tapped Conor and everybody was like, oh, you didn't even, there wasn't even an end. He was doing that same shit, but he was doing it across the neck on the back. It's going to break his jaws. Fucking horrible. It's going to break your neck, man. And that's what that feels like. But that's even worse because it's sideways. And you got your body on it. Yeah. But the worst that I've never seen in the UFC is the executioner. I don't think I've ever seen anybody get that rear, that, you know, you're in the back mount and you reach over and you go guillotine from the back. What did somebody get set like that the other day? Well, that was the Scottish. Oh. Scottish Twister. Scottish Twister. That's different. Scottish Twister is different. Scottish Twister is a little different. It's still nasty as fuck. that's the leaning back right yeah yeah yeah it's horrible on your neck that attacks the spine and the fucking oh they're horrible but i think my man couldn't tap fast enough yeah the executioner's the worst yeah because you're you've got rear naked hooks and you've got the head back this way oh man you're going like that's nuts that's nuts yeah now that's a catch wrestling thing right oh that i don't know man that sort of started popping up at 10th planet at least like in the 2000s like 2003 or four so Epstein likes to call it the executioner But he wasn't the only guy doing it like other guys had figured it out So you're in north-south which a lot of guys, you know that was back in the north. God. Yeah, this is it right here Bro, this is holy hell when you're in rear naked choke position, but you have the The arm wrapped like that the amount of pressure on the spine is just crazy That's crazy. It's crazy. You can paralyze somebody. 100%. 100%. Should I do a fucking Long Island knucklehead? They'll be fucking making sure everybody sign a waiver on that one. But look at how nasty this is. It's such a bad position to try to defend. You have no strength to defend it. Yeah, that's a wrap. Hell. That's a wrap. And I don't see it in the UFC and I don't understand why. I think it's available. I think some guys could get this. I mean, not always, but there's a lot of times you're trying to fight the rear-naked choke, or you're trying to get the ring, you can choke with the guys defending. If you switch to something like this, if you could find a way to get into a position like this, you're not going to defend that, man. The truth is, a lot of guys in the UFC or an

MMA in general don't really practice jiu-jitsu from that standpoint. They do anti-jiu-jitsu because they think that their chances of winning a fight on their feet are better. So their idea is just like, defend the takedown and get back to my feet. Or just use basic jiu-jitsu. So stuff like this that's available to them, they don't know it. Or they don't practice it enough for it to be instinctive for them to do it.

The fact that they're just trying to get up to their feet is the first problem. Yeah, that's it. Because look at Gilbert Burns versus Damian Maia. When he made him match his jiu-jitsu a little bit, then he finds the opening. If he doesn't match his jiu-jitsu, he'll use that. But then he has to move a certain way. He gives enough space to get to his feet.

God, I've got to remember this guy's name. The guy who's the Bellator champion, who's from Ukraine, who's fighting in the UFC now. Amosov? Amosov. Yeah, yeah. Bro. Yeah, you're Slav Amosov. What's that? Bro. I knew that was the name, but I didn't want to fuck it up, and I was panicking. It's not easy to hear. Bro, you know when I really panic? Weigh-in days. You look at my face

I'm in a hot panic I'll be feeling for you sometimes He's going to forget the name You don't bring the paper up with you I do bring the paper

I do, I have to Not only that, I have to listen to these fucking names Over and over and over again Some of that shit's coming And you know

And it's going to be mad at you if you mess it up He's so good at it

He should be doing it I'll just interview people He's the best at naming the names

I do that all unfiltered I go hey Jimmy who do we have next It's a fucking crazy name I just get the first name down

Yurislaw is good His ground game is so sweet Did you see him fight? Which show? Pull up his last fight He beat a Joel Back it up a little bit so you can see the takedown Watch how he does this Look at how beautiful this is Bro. It's all in the hip. I mean, right into arm triangle. Look at this. Wow, that's a sick. Bro, and then he goes knee to the belly, too. Just crushing him.

Did you see his setup for Neil Magny? Yes. Oh, man, he's so smooth, man.

He's smooth. He's smooth. He's smooth. Dude, he put it on Neil. Yeah. Yeah, and then he breakdances afterwards. Oh, he breakdances. Got to have something.

Actually, look at that, man. It's pretty good.

Yeah, that guy can move. And that guy's really good. he's dangerous old sean alvarez he would be doing the windmill he has one ko loss that was jason

jackson jackson yeah jason jackson knocked him out he just put it on him jason jackson just

just murdered him just like ran around across and beat him up yeah i was talking to big john and um josh thompson on the podcast they brought him up like that he's like the most unheralded the most underappreciated of the guys that are out there jason jackson yeah yeah so that's a problem when you're not in the UFC. That is.

And if the UFC picks him up, I mean, it's going to be kind of late. He had to dig

through the rubble of his house to get his belt back. Holy shit. Jeez, that's nuts, man. That's crazy. That's nuts. Puts shit in perspective real fast. Holy shit, dude. How bad did he want that belt? For real. Right? I mean, this dude went back to a war zone to get his belt. A Bellator. His house got a Bellator belt. Christ, imagine if it was a UFC belt.

I'd have left that motherfucking air That's so crazy

That fucking dude's good man There's so many good guys now it's crazy It's a wild time for the sport man You know

I like Big John You know one thing I don't like that he does It always irks me Big John McCarthy When I won the title he was my guy But I hate this Man As you fucking Savages know when you're in there you're in a certain mindset right you got a guy looking to do bodily harm to you you're looking to fucking take him out any way possible if there's a foul or something now you're in this mindset so now you got this big fucking guy hey uh what do you see you see ugly making jokes oh yeah okay let me go back to this guy trying to kill me big good one big john What the fuck? Really? You don't like a million jokes in the middle of a fuck? How about this? How about you go to the mothership and you bring out the Tony? How about you put your name in the hat? You take the name out, and maybe you could use that on Kill Tony. I don't like that shit. Fuck that. Every time he does it, there's something in me that makes me just be like, dude, is it about you? What the fuck's the matter with you? Good one, Big John. and you see the guys do it sometimes you see the guys go oh yeah alright dude fuck that it's the same as the guy looking to give you a high five out there fuck that too so I mean I don't know

He always irked me, and it just stuck out when his name came up. And he's not a bad guy. He's a great guy.

I love him.

But how about this? Now that you're back reffing, make a note of that, maybe. Make a note of that.

Put your name in the hat. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Okay, when it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in, depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot. I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness. The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get deep sleep, the kind of sleep that drives real recovery. And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible. Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for you, automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time. Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered. Use my code Rogan at 8sleep.com slash Rogan for up to $350 off the Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it. But I got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep. That's code Rogan at 8sleep.com slash Rogan. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T-Mobile Home Run Derby is one of those events that reminds you of how explosive baseball can be. It doesn't get better than watching the game's biggest sluggers launch baseballs into another dimension. Home runs only. One night to make history just raw power on display as they chase home run glory. Watch the T-Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix this Monday, July 13th at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. Yeah, I can imagine. That would fuck with your head, right? You'd be like, man, make me listen to that joke.

Goddamn.

Fuck. I just got poked in the eye. I got poked in.

What are you, you see ugly?

Bro, I think they're getting a little bit better about warning people for fouls, but not better about taking points. They did for a little while. Yeah, right when it was hot.

It was hot, and they were like, yeah, point, point, point. And everybody was like, yes!

Crowd cheered. That's how it's got to be, folks. That's the new rule. The new rule should be eye poke, one point. Don't poke eyes. You do this shit, and you jab someone in the eyes, one point. One point. Yeah, no doubt. One point. Right away, you know not to do it. Sometimes it happens. Unfortunately, if it happens, you get a point taken away. Don't let it happen. And you go back to your corner and go, make sure you don't do that again. Nutshot, one point. Unintentional nutshot. It's a warning. Like because you could kick while I'm kicking you weren't trying to hit me in the nuts, right? We just collided legs that happens all the time

The rough one is the court that the call is the the back of the head when you're trying to put a guy away Because he's moving It's hard

It's kind of that's hard and that spot is a lot smaller than what most people think because we think because we we think about it They just say the back of the head. So you're assuming that it's like anything bad. It's just a moho

It's like a little small piece. Isn't that crazy, though? You kind of should be able to hit the back of the head. If everybody had the old A. Osborne haircut, it'd be okay.

Just don't hit him in his hair.

Bro, do you remember when Henzo fought, what was his name, Rikers? Ben Rikers? Yes. Spikers. Spikers. Ben Spikers. And it showed, if you're allowed to elbow the back of the head, the rear mount. When Henzo got him, bro. Oh, when Henzo was dropping bombs on him and then stepped on his neck, put him to sleep

with his jacket, with his guitar. I remember that, bro.

It was awesome. The beating he gave him before he choked him to sleep. The beating in the back of his head.

Stop calling my fucking room all night long. The guy was being a prick before the fight.

He was a piece of shit.

He did what he did? Oh, yeah, yeah. He was calling his fucking room, trying to wake him up, like had his people harassing Henzo. He was a dick. And that's why Henzo did that.

greet him and he said oh you have not you have eyes like my my my girlfriend but they're prettier or some fucking so right away henzo's one of those guys that he can go from a smile to a fucking

boha in two seconds and about the fuck i mean zero to 100 real quick well and you know only if you're a dick oh yeah you're not a dick he's the nicest guy come on that that position just shows you if you're allowed to do that yeah this is but show before that watch what he does before it's once Here it is. Once he gets them back mount, watch this. Boom! I mean, dude, that's a wrap. You can only take... Imagine if that was in MMA. Why? Now, here's the thing. Is that inherently dangerous? Is it that much more dangerous? I mean, what we're doing is already dangerous. Right. And it also is very effective. So are we removing... A very effective technique that would end fights and if so are we doing it to protect the fighter because if we are Why are we allowing a lot of other stuff? Why are we allowing flying knees? Why are we allowing sidekicks to the knee? Why are we allowing wheel kicks to the head heels to the head?

Smack him in the face again. Yeah, hey nice fight

I mean there's a certain amount of things that we already allow that are so bad for you It's like why don't you allow a shot to the back of the head? I need it explained to me like I'm a child like why is it okay to slam your elbow full blast into someone's temple? Yeah, but not this one you could drive your elbow down into their eye socket That's okay, but the back of the head is bad But also the back of the head's fine if you knock someone out from the back of the head and you didn't mean to like a head kick Like how many head kicks wrap around the back of the head right wonder boy? And it's like his UFC debut. He goes over the shoulder whap back of the head out cold Yeah, that shit always works the back of the head brown kicks. That's a lot of times where they land Getting hit in the back. It is a little different. Yeah, how many times like like Ernesto who's knocked dudes out with back of the head head kicks in kickboxing all the time for sure i think that's how he knocked out maurice smith i think he snuck it around over the shoulder and hit him in the back of the head i mean i mean anatomy's going to dictate that that's what you're supposed to do right so that's legal no one says that's

an illegal blow my overhands that's where they hit a lot fuck them yeah i mean i'm facing you

What do you want me to do? This is what is part of the sport, right? Now, if that's legal and you get a KO win, if you head kick someone, you land them in the back of the head, that's always happened.

Yeah.

That's happened a hundred times.

I don't know. I mean. It's weird, right? It is. I mean, it's weird because, I mean, now we're playing with all these different roles and people don't like them. And it's just like, but I mean, you got to draw a line somewhere, I suppose. See if you can find Ernesto who's K.O.'s Maury Smith.

Less rules shows who's the better fighter at the end of the day. But there's some rules that I'm like, okay, but now you're getting an unrealistic understanding of a position. Like when someone's in a turtle and you can't knee to the head.

Yeah, to me, that one should be eliminated right away. You should be able to knee a guy in the head from that.

Yeah, watch this. Look at that. Shit, there it is. Right at the back of the head? Yep. Watch that again. Is it in slow motion? Is that what it is? Watch how slick this is. Ernesto Oost was such a beast. Look how close he is, too. Oh, man. Crazy. See how close he was? Crazy. That's like Billy Jack. Look at that. Bro. Yep. That is nice. So if that happened in the UFC, everybody would cheer. You couldn't say, hey, that's an illegal blow.

Right. Even though, technically, that's the spot where they can constitute illegal blow.

Yeah. That's illegal.

Yeah.

That's illegal. And wheel kicks happen like that all the time.

All the time, because it's coming from that angle from behind.

Whipping around, the guy tries to duck under, hits him right in the back of the head, and no one complains. It's weird. The referee never says, stop, no striking to the back of the head. Never happens. Ever.

It's only when they're like turtled and they're throwing arm punches. Yeah, which is the least powerful shot.

Which is less powerful than a full kick to the head. But the reality is, if you were in that position and the guy could throw elbows to the back of the head, that would be a wrap. In that same position where you're on a guy's back and you're doing this kind of shit instead if you're just back of the head

Boom, boom like Kenzo just did. Hey man, what about headbutts? Right, headbutts not even even standing up, right? Like when I'm in a clinch and I'm burying in It's good for short guys. Yeah, I fucking love it. Oh, no doubt. I get in that fucking clinch Come up with your head all day. Bro, Mark Coleman

Remember that? Mark Coleman would get in your guard and headbutt the fuck out of you And the only guy to solve that puzzle was Maury Smith. Maury Smith was the first guy to solve that puzzle. Ragged him out. Cardio. Cardio. Cardio and defense off his back. Good butterfly guard. Dude, Mark Kerr murdered Fabio Gargell with headbutts, too. Bro, headbutts when you were on top is brutal. Yeah, I was at that Maury Smith fight.

That was the first fight I ever went to. Really? The UFC fight I ever went to. Nice. Birmingham, Alabama. Really? I was there, yeah. Wow. Bro, that was a huge upset. Yeah, I know. Big time. I was nervous. Everybody thought Cole was going to take him. I was nervous. I was in the crowd rooting for Maury Smith for obvious reasons. Well, I was friends. And everybody, but I was the only one there rooting for Maury Smith, yeah.

I was friends with Maury's. Maury's came over to my house, worked out with him. I was cool with Maury's. Nice guy. So it was like, I was sad. I was like, oh my God, Maury's is going to fight Mark Coleman. You're going to get killed. I was like, he's 260 pounds. He's a wrestler. He takes everybody down. And then when Maury... was leg kicking him. He'd say, come on, Mark, ground me and pound me. Wap! Ground me and pound me. Wap! He was talking to him while he was doing it, and then when Mark would move towards me, move away. Got my beck in. Those leg kicks were brutal, too. Maurice was the first guy to bring, like, world-class leg kicks to the UFC. World-class. Did the Lions then guy fight him after? Actually, Pedro Hizzo. Yeah, Pedro Hizzo. Paul Varlins. He had sick leg kicks. What's the Lions? Pete? Pete's up. I mean, I still beat him. Pete Tragos. Pete Williams. Pete Williams. Pete Williams. He knocked him out with a head kick. Who knocked him out first? Yeah. I think Maurice beat him first. But Maurice beat him by decision, right? Wasn't it a five-round decision? I think it was a decision. I think it was a five-round. He just beat him up. Pete Williams caught him with a kick. Yeah. Pete Williams head kicked with shoes on. With shoes on. The good old days. That's right. He had shoes on. Yeah. Bro, what a crazy sport, man. I remember one of the first fights that I saw was this Japanese dude. and Valigi and they were grabbing each other's like underwear. Like you could hold up they was giving him a wedgie. I think the dude he was fighting like was literally grabbing his shorts and like giving him a massive wedgie like during the fight. Yeah. Totally legal. It was totally legal. In the UFC? It was bare knuckle back then too. The first fight I worked was bare knuckle. That was 97. I remember that. Vitor was the only guy that had gloves on. Was Vitor the first guy or Tank the first guy to wear gloves? Tank was One of the first guys for sure my tank might have been the first guy I believe he was the first guy and then Vitor warm to Vitor was you know bro, but 19 years old and Vitor first fought in the UFC tornado Shit dude, I mean definitely free the solder on that mother hundred He looked like the fucking home, right? Well, not yet. He didn't when he first fought in the UFC only way 200 pounds He was so fast. When he fought Scott Ferrozo, when he fought Trey Telegman, he weighed 200 pounds. Then he gained tons of weight and fought Randy. And when he fought Randy, he was like 240. And that messed him up, too. He couldn't move. Oh, he was too big. He got too big. What if Randy got cut in that one, remember? No, that was a different one. That was in the UFC later on for the light heavyweight title. Yeah, he cut his eye early. So this is Trey Telegman. And Trey Telegman, if you're watching this, lost his peck in a car accident when he was a baby. That's crazy. Yeah, crazy. He lost ribs, too. Oh, this is Brad Kohler. Yeah. This is a different fight. What is going on here?

Japan, 1997. Oh, yeah.

That's not Japan, 1997. It's UFC 12, actually. Japan, 1997 was when Frank Shamrock fought Kevin Jackson. Remember any armbar? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty crazy. This is a different card. It's Ultimate Japan 97. UFC 12 is the fight.

I was just going off.

You remember the number? Yeah. Randy looks older there than he does now. Peptides. It wasn't Japan, though.

I just heard you say something about Japan in 1997. That's all I typed in.

No. No, there's a Japanese fighter is what I said. He fought Baligi, Waleed Ishmael. It was either UFC 12 or UFC 13. Waleed Ishmael UFC. If you find that, you'll find it. And the dude was giving him a super wedgie. You were totally allowed to grab shorts. You could punch guys in the nuts. Keith Hackney punching Joe Son in his balls. Remember that? Dude, what about Gary Goodridge in the crucifix? Oh, yeah. That was Paul Herrera? So here it is. Look what the dude's done to Luigi's pants. Valigi's pants all the way up the crack of his ass because the dude had a hold of his shorts I do remember earlier in the fight rather that be Mackenzie Dern he's given the way But yeah, look at this dude Here it is bro Oh my god So this was my first UFC that I worked Okay, so look the Japanese guy has the gloves on as well So Vitor had him on but Valigi is bare knuckle Look, you're allowed to grab it back then The Japanese guy has gloves Valigi's bare knuckle Isn't that crazy He's really grabbing his balls I think you could grab nuts It's gotta be so uncomfortable And look how he's grabbing a fence Full on grabbing the fence And Big John's trying to pry his hands away He just grabs him again At least back then I guess you couldn't grab the fence So there was a rule He's grabbing it again Look at the grab That's the most blatant French grabbing of all time I see ugly right there. Bro, Big John, get on it. John, John, slap his hands away, John. Do something. John, he's grabbing the fence. It was like a suggestion back then. It was not even a rule. You allowed to grab the fence back then. I think he knocked his hand. He was saying, don't grab the fence, but only like a little. He's kind of not that enthusiastic about enforcing it. And it was like, as he was letting go already, he was like slapping his hand away. Yeah, that was the first UFC I worked. The rules back then were so weird. Shoes, wrestling shoes. It's weird how you, you know, like wrestling shoes would change everything. You get so much more grip on the cage. So much more ability to move. Yeah. But the wrestlers would love it. More foot locks. Yeah, that would be a problem. Oh, heel hooks would be a real problem.

When I first started training, I remember with Kukuk back in the day. He used to wear wrestling sneakers and stuff. And I'm going to be like, you know, I wanted as much for the street as possible. I remember that was my mentality. So I'd wear the wrestling sneakers. I'm like, yo, fuck this. Guys are grabbing your foot. I'm like, yo, fuck that.

It also like, even setting up arm bars and stuff, like when you try to grab the foot and throw it over it. Now you've got a grip on something that's like text, textile. Like you could hold on to that motherfucker. A foot is hard to hold on to. They get sweaty and shit. They're all slippery. Nah, no good.

Yeah, when I hear Jen's pulver, I was like, he going to wear shoes? Oh, word? That was, hey, Jamie, can you find Dean Thomas' rolling knee bar on Jen's pulver? Oh, it was beautiful. I bet they don't even have that.

I think Jamie can find that. Oh, it has to be online. Everything's online. Hey, Dean Thomas. Those fights?

Those old fights? I mean, those are history, man. I'm a shooter fighter, you know. I remember seeing that interview. You remember seeing that? I studied it because I was going to fight you. Oh. And I'm like, ah, try that knee bar on me, motherfucker.

Jens Pulver had some laser beam punches back in the day. I know. I remember when he knocked out John Lewis. Ooh. I was like, I got to fight this guy. Sure, that was a bad one. Jens Pulver could crack. You got him in his prime, too. Yeah, but I did not want that guy punching me. Yeah, you can't be wearing shoes. It's just a knee bar. Yeah. It's just too much. Too much of an advantage.

That was an old school one, too. You did it almost like you're going to give your back to him and you fucking roll. I think you should let him...

Look at this. Look at this. Here it is. Look at this. Who is that fucking young stuff? Look how it's lean. I know. Oh, man. This is nasty. Inside heel hook and shoes. Inside heel hook with shoes on. That's a wrap. That's the worst. He has no way to... Tap, tap, tap. You should have tapped a long time ago. Thomas. Oh, my God. That must have hurt. What did it feel like? Did you feel a bust? Oh, I heard all the pop. How bad was the injury? Oh, I don't know. I never called him afterwards, but... Oh, it had to be real bad, dude. It ought to be real bad. With the shoes and everything. Like, my God. Look at that, Dean Thomas. Look how you rolled into that. That's so pretty. Look at you. Look at you. Right into the inside. Oh, my God. He knows he's fucksville. Oh, God. I heard it pop. You mean, Dean Thomas.

Yeah, I heard that pop a few times afterwards. That's awesome, Dean.

How good does that feel? It feels good, actually. I've watched myself get knocked out by BJ Penn over and over and over for years. So, like, about time I get one. come on those heel hook ones are the ones that you while you're watching them you're grabbing yeah you know you're already i'm like you're like i hate them i hate them with a passion yes because they ruin your whole career hey did you ever see a kimura dislocate yeah

well i saw that's just ugly man it's like you almost like you want to push it back in you're

like frank near right oh dude oh that straight jujitsu tournament i'd snap the dude's humorous just like straight up key lock because he didn't tap. My coach is yelling, like, protect your fighter. Oh, Jesus.

God, that's horrible. And you don't recover fully from that. He had to get surgery. It sounded like a pool stick snapping. I'll never forget the sound of Weidman. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That's like a chalkboard. I'll never forget that sound. I remember that. That one was so loud. Against Uriah. I wasn't in the corner for that one. It was so loud.

What are the chances Anderson does it to You know he does it to Anderson and then It fucking happens to him too

It's only happened to four guys in the UFC It's scary Corey Hill's the first one I remember the Corey Hill one because the referee Didn't see it and I put my headphones on I'm screaming stop the fight Stop the fight

Did he? Was it related to that?

No I think he has some kind of disease

Some kind of like something.

Bro, a break of a bone is a traumatic injury. Like, you have to understand, there's such a difference between breaking your hand, which I think we've all done. I broke my arm when I was a little kid. Breaking your shin in half like that, it's such a traumatic injury. Stepping down on it and it just gives out. Frank Mir broke his femur in a car accident. A guy T-boned him on a motorcycle, snapped his thigh bone. But Frank wasn't the same for years. It took years for him to come back to full form again. That's rough, man. Rough. So this is the other question about Conor. How much can he use that left leg? His left leg snapped in half Okay, and he I see him kick in the bag and I see him doing all these things and that's great

And I hope it's a hundred percent, but I mean I seen Chris Wyman kicking Hector Lombard Where I think it's only body punches and leg kicks you see what I'm doing

Yeah, that's you just who think it was a jitsu, but it is the yeah, yeah, they're allowed a leg kick and body punch It was the oddest thing is the weirdest thing. I just saw Chris just kept kicking him his body and Hector was like punching him in the neck What the fuck are the rules is this it's crazy. I didn't know what I was watching those Those ones where the dudes like stand next to each other and just like kick each other into submission Oh, yeah, that shit's pretty nasty. Those are so that's so crazy. Who does that? I don't know man But there's a lot of those videos. It's almost as dumb as slap. Almost. I I mean kind of almost because like you could really ruin your life like you don't understand like Pedro Hizzo Like one of those kind of guys could you imagine like doing that with Pedro?

Look at the damage Hizzo did the Randleman's leg Or it should have a different vein pattern Randy Couture he got done with him Randy Couture it was like six months man to recover two two two fights

Earlier this year in an MMA fight in Mexico. God damn, man. In a heavyweight fight. Oh, Jesus.

Are we going out to eat later, man? Fuck. You're going to make me sick. It's a horrible, horrible injury, man. I hate those things, man. And I know how hard Chris kicks. Longo was like backstage. He was killing the pads. It was hard to hold them. That's such a great impression. And fucking. Then he went out there and Jesus. Wogan's making me feel bad for being 68.

Oh, yeah.

He was telling me.

he's so funny

and then he was asking about a peptide I have to text him later he's the best you two together

I swear to god it should be a show come on it should be a show just fucking follow him around yeah just follow you guys around follow you to the pizza place I've seen him yesterday it'd be a great fucking show it'd be a great fucking show kidding me it really would you get one of them keep it up with Kardashians people who know how to do a reality show film the two of you guys together hanging out drinking coffee talking shit training fighters oh it'd be epic epic epic. Don't wait too long.

He's getting older.

Think about how many guys you've worked with. Super high level guys like Aljo and Marab. And Weidman. And Weidman. Being with them at the UFC's. It'd be a great fucking show. Are you kidding me?

Who's best to have mics on in the corner? No one.

It's so funny. I like that comedians are making comedies again. I'm looking at Harlan. This is Harlan Williams. Williams. He put a gourd in his fucking underwear. I love that guy. I think that guy's hysterical. With the fake legs. He's so funny, man. His movie, you know, I love movies. His movie Wingman is funny. It's funny. It's a good movie. He's funny in everything he does. I miss those. Him and Nasty Nate. Half-baked. You know what it is? These comedians are now funding it themselves, like Theo Vaughn and David Spade did Busboys. Tom Segura's doing a bunch of shows like that.

Theo and David Spade did one together Theo's real life Joe Dirt I like that they're just

doing it where they don't have to get okayed by anybody and the other one nobody's telling them what to do how to fucking be in a cult how to start a cult with the Greek guy the heavy Greek guy Stavros that's a funny one that one made me fucking laugh

he's from Baltimore and he does a baltimore ravens fan after every win or loss during the season like you have to fucking see

because it's fucking hilarious very funny dude yeah man i like this it's a good time for comedy because this is like pushback yeah you know when there's pushback then people get excited when someone doesn't give into it and they make up make their own shit but if you want to try to make a comedy movie with a studio you have to deal with so many people telling you what you can and can't say you're way better off just doing it on your own like they don't really know what funny They're trying to protect their job. They have a Mercedes man

They were cranking them out for a while. They're like Talladega nights and fucking Tropic Thunder

You know what happened the fucking internet happened people started complaining in real life Like you know it started these morons online started affecting the way people view comedy So ridiculous. It's the meanwhile didn't affect the way we view violence, which is crazy Like you could have a super hyper violent It's a violent movie and nobody has a problem with it, right? Yeah, more now. It's the dumbest shit of all time. But if you have some crazy, like if you tried to make a movie like Superbad. Fucking hilarious. To try to make that today. Couldn't make it. You couldn't make it. Or Tropic Thunder. Couldn't make it. Couldn't make it. Couldn't make it.

Fucking Robert Downey Jr. straight and blackface. Straight and blackface. And then Ben Stiller, full retard. Come on. I asked him, I said, do you think.

robert denner jr i said do you think you could make that movie today he goes oh you could make

most of the right the 80s comedy is about guys trying to get laid i mean the premise alone is

not gonna make it you know what i mean it's funny man it's like we allow the most hyper violent movies and celebrate them oh this is awesome like i just watched collateral again the other day

Oh, what a fucking love. That's an awesome movie.

We watched a scene in one of the episodes we did. We watched that scene where he shoots those guys in the alley. In the alley. And I got so into it, I go, I need to watch that movie again.

Fuck.

Yeah, sick movie. But hyper-violent. A movie that everybody says is a wonderful movie. Yeah. Really good. But comedy. Really enjoyed it. Let's make you laugh. Yeah.

But isn't there like spoilers? I don't want to spoil it, but doesn't Jamie Foxx kill him or something at the end?

Well, in the end, he dies.

Well, I mean, he dies somehow, but isn't it kind of unbelievable that he kills the master assassin, the taxi driver?

I think he wanted to die. I think when you kill a bunch of people over a long period of time. Oh, it's one of those? It's deeper than that? You wait for your turn. You know, it's supposed to be Russell Crowe and Adam Sandler in that movie? Whoa. Originally. Are you serious? Yeah. That's crazy. Interesting. I think one of them dropped off. Yeah, right. That's interesting. I'll tell you what. Tom Cruise was good.

Phenomenal. He's pretty much good in everything. Dude, they say they used that clip of him in that alley for training, like CIA motherfuckers. Because it was sat clean. Do you know the scene? No. Oh, one of my favorite scenes in any movie. Jamie, pull it up.

One of my favorite scenes in any movie. Two idiots. I love a good tactical draw. Because I love a guy who practices.

It's underrated. It's a fucking, it's a live, die, repeat.

Yes, the Tom Cruise one. It might have been called something else. Edge of Tomorrow. What is it? Edge of Tomorrow. Yes. Is that the space ride? It was really good.

It kept coming back, coming back.

This is a scene. So Jamie Foxx is strapped to the car. He's zip-tied him to the steering wheel and took the keys. That's fine. But you can't have a bunch of guys trying to get laid. That's unrealistic. You're sending a bad message.

Spring break. I never thought of it that way, actually. It's ridiculous. The comedians rebuttal to it. you know, to not being able to make the movies they want to make.

Well, it's only empowered the clubs. Like clubs are packed. Yeah. Everybody wants, cause you go like, you go to the mothership, you're going to hear some wild shit. People want to laugh. They don't, nobody, it doesn't mean you mean what you're saying. Right, right, right. It's just, it's calm. It's a joke. Bob Marley didn't really shoot the sheriff. Right. Okay. It's like, what you're doing is fucking around. We all know we've always been talking shit. Talking shit has been a natural part of humans. We talk shit. We joke around. And the idea that that's supposed to be up to someone's standards or someone else's parameters of what you can and can't talk. Fuck you. Fuck you. Just don't go. Just don't go watch it.

Tom Brady roast kind of brought it back. In a big way.

Yeah, in a big way. Yeah, the Tom Brady roast, I think, cracked the egg. Because that thing got like 55 million views on Netflix alone within the first week. Joe, can I get that water, please?

Are people still getting canceled now? I think it's kind of past.

I think it doesn't work. You can't, because everybody can just put your own stuff on. Yeah. You can just do your own stuff. Well, it's also when people get canceled, people just flock to those people now. It makes them more popular. Look at Kanye. Kanye is selling out the biggest fucking places in the world doing pop-up shows.

Yeah, yeah.

He's doing arena pop-up shows.

He just did one in Miami a couple weeks ago. My son went to it.

He's doing one this weekend in San Antonio.

Really?

Just pop-up show. Tony Hinchcliffe just went to the one in Tampa. He said it was insane. Yeah. This is the greatest show he's ever seen in his life. he's on top of a world he's standing on top of a globe yeah and like it's spinning while he's up there doing two and a half hours of bangers yeah like you you realize tony goes you realize how many hits this guy has who is it kanye mother oh kanye otherwise known as yay yeah that's right

easy yeah no one wants to do a versus battle against kanye he's gonna eat you up he's so

prolific yeah it's and like tony said like every aspect of the show he produced so every sound has a like a purpose every lighting effect it's all coordinated he said it's amazing he's like a gene he's a genius legit crazy is fucking a shithouse rat it's like but that's how you have

he's out there i mean but most creative people 100 you know they're coming from a different

you don't get that good yeah by being normal right like he's too good but i mean normal's overrated the guy comes back from wearing a diamond encrusted swastika to selling out the biggest arenas in the world he has a song called heil hitler a year later he's selling out the biggest arenas in the world like instantaneously do you know wild he's the goat like no one's even close he's like one of the greatest performers of all time yeah like no one's even close

Like with the stuff that he does like you compare it to his contemporaries like he's

Yeah, he's yeah, he's so far ahead of everybody out there Prince was like a to it's all the hits he had and all the hits he's written for people Yeah, when that Freddie Gray shit happened in Baltimore He called the city and wanted to do like a benefit concert or whatever and I was able to go to it and At one point on the stage he's doing all these songs and he goes god damn. I forgot all the good shit And then he kept going, but the best story was on Soundcheck, like he tunes, everything's got to be the way he wants it. And Jay-Z, Beyonce, and somebody else, I don't know who the third person was, but they were going to come and be part of it. So they asked him if he could come. He's like, yeah, sure. So when they came, they started to go on stage for Soundcheck. And a friend of mine at the building said, Prince is like, whoa, what are you doing up on the fucking stage? And they're like, oh, you know, we want to get our shit straight. And he goes, no, this is my shit. You want to come and be a part of it? Fine. If not, get the fuck off the stage.

Whoa.

And they walked in and left and got out of there.

Well, you got to be careful with other stars because they do like the metal.

Yeah.

I wouldn't like this. I want the lighting.

And that dude, you know, shit was getting done how he wanted it done. 100%. It has to be. He was too good. Yeah. He's a fucking genius. I remember that guitar solo he did at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Oh, my God.

He could do anything. He could play any musical instrument. He used to play all the musical instruments.

And he could play basketball.

Yeah. Did you watch that Michael Jackson? I didn't. I saw it. Did you watch it? I did, yeah. How was it? I thought it was good. Ray liked it. You didn't see it yet? I didn't see it. Oh, it's good. No, it's good. But Longo watched it? No, it's good. And then he told me? You know what he told me? I mean, it's a good thing, I guess. After he's seen it, he goes, he didn't touch any kids. Oh, I'll tell you right now, he didn't fucking touch any keys. So I'm like, what, Longo? So I want to know your thoughts on it.

That's hilarious.

Nah, because my son's father was fucked up. Yeah, his father was all fucked up. No, it's a good movie, and the guy who played it, his nephew, nailed it. Yeah, man. Nailed Michael Jackson. My family loved it. My wife, my kids, they loved it.

I didn't see it, though. It's a cautionary tale. The Michael Jackson story is like, when kids get that famous, no one can handle it. That's what that is. Yeah. Yeah. There's also the weirdness of the doctor saying that he was chemically castrated. His doctor, the same guy that killed him with the prophenol, the guy that put him to sleep with anesthesia. That guy said that when he was young, his father chemically castrated him to preserve his voice. Are you serious? Yeah. They didn't get into that part. Which totally makes sense. When you look at him in comparison to all the other guys in his family, he's really thin. Like he has no testosterone.

I never really thought about that.

All the brothers are all big men. They're men. Like, you look at Jermaine. For sure. They're big men. He's really thin, and he kept that high-pitched voice. Like, when you listen to some of his, like, human nature, listen to human nature, like, that voice is insane. Yeah. We can't play it on the show, but, Jamie, play Human Nature by Michael Jackson real quick.

Why did Varys get plump on Game of Thrones when he cut off his balls?

Well, I don't think that was real. Oh, yeah. Also, you can still get— I mean, there's also dragons in there. You can still get fat, but you can't, you know, you don't get muscle. Like, you don't have any testosterone. It's gone. You're a eunuch.

They probably weren't feeding that guy either to keep him thin so he could dance. Right. Oh, man. Well, also, he's probably performing every night. Every night.

So he's burning off shit tons of calories. If they put a Fitbit on that dude, the amount of steps that he's taking.

Dude, it's pretty crazy. Like, I'm a front man for a band, the fucking run, and they're doing it all night long.

We're going to play this song, Human Nature. Ooh, the official music video. Oh, man. That voice, I don't think you get that voice from a man. No. A regular man that has his testicles. How do you chemically castrate somebody? The same way that they do it with puberty blockers that they use on kids. Just like pills and stuff? No, like when they do puberty blockers, that's what puberty blockers do. Yeah. What they're doing is they're just blocking all of your testosterone production. And so they used to do it to criminals. So if they had a sex offender, they would chemically castrate them.

I'm all for that.

Yeah. Chop their dicks off. Just eliminate them. We just eliminate them. Yeah, man. They should be eliminated. But the chemically castration thing they used to do with opera singers. They called them castratos, but not chemically castrated. They used to use a knife. They used to chop their balls off when they were young so that they could sing like a woman. It was a very haunting sound. There's only one recording of a castrato that's from, like, Jimmy, when was it from? Like the 1800s? Really? There's one recording of a guy singing that had no balls.

And they do it to them when they're really young. They do it to them when they're kids. No kidding. Yeah, like your family sells you off to some opera, and they slice your balls off and keep you that way forever. Man. Crazy. Damn. Yeah. And the sound. Find that castrato recording. The sound is haunting, man. You hear the guy singing, and he creeps you out. You're like, oh, my God, this guy was a little boy, and they cut his balls off so he could sing like this. Oh, that's so, ugh. Yeah. And I think that's what they did to Michael Jackson. well at least that's what the doctor says it makes sense to me i mean it makes sense like

even watching a movie how hard his father was on him and how much he demanded of him

oh man you're gonna creep us out now listen to this guy's voice okay oh jesus christ that's depressing but we know that was an actual process that was an actual practice that really did chop boys balls off so they could sing better went from happy human nature to he was fucking dying I know it's really nuts if you think about the horrible things that people are willing to do

it's not disproving it or anything it's just the guy saying he went to search where they were doing it and I think he said he was having very trouble a lot of trouble finding a lot of information about castratos? yeah and where they did it or how they did it but they hide that

I was chomping nuts on him oh yeah let me take you to the lab We'll show you what we do with the balls Are you doing those peptides? Many eunuchs were castrated after puberty And thus castration had no effect on their voices Oh, that's a eunuch though After puberty So you gotta catch them young Yeah, right You gotta catch them before they Grow their nuts That's so horrible

Boy, Constantinople

Boy Who came up with that idea? I have an idea. Right?

I mean, how many of them died from an infection from getting their nuts chopped off, you know?

Probably a lot. Back then, they didn't even know what fucking cooties were. They had no idea. Yeah, they didn't clean the night.

Yeah.

No.

Disgusting. It started off as a punishment. It wasn't a choice.

And then they realized, these guys sing really nice in prison. It's kind of cool. That's only this one minute. They sing in the shower. I really like it. Oh, mine. Gentlemen, this was a lot of fun. As always. We always have such a good time. Hell yeah. Matt, how are you feeling? What are you talking? Why me? Why out of everybody are you asking me? 100 milligrams. Hey, you all right? Handle like a boss? Like a boss. Give me another. Your eyes are a little thin. I was going to say, some Italian looks a little Asian right now. My Italian. Guys, you handled it.

I had a great time.

It's always fun. Let's go eat. Let's go eat.

Is it Italian?

We can go wherever we want. But what did you want? Did you want to do Italian? Well, let's cut this off. All right. Matt Serra, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Long Island. Matt Serra channel on YouTube. That too. Yeah. And you can actually train at Matt's gym. Yeah, he can come there too, but subscribe to that thing. Subscribe to that. Yeah.

Ground Control. Yep, GroundControlUSA.com has all the locations. We just opened in Stewart, Florida. And ShogunFights.com, next show is November 14th.

Dean Thomas, fight expert slash movie producer.

Deep Waters every Monday. Myself, Jorge Masvidal, Chris Weidman, and Dustin Poirier. Monday at noon, Deep Waters on Paramount+. And your film. And my film, Flowers, is coming out soon. I loved it. I loved it. I seen it. I loved it. a phenomenal ending, yes.

Gentlemen, we did it. Another one. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, guys. Bye, everybody.

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