Muse

You know, America's 250th birthday is coming up. That's going to be a big cake. And who's even going to blow out the candles, I wonder? Probably maybe Thomas Jefferson will come down from the clouds and huff and puff a few out. Maybe Betsy Ross or Frederick Douglass. I don't know. Somebody is going to come on down and just huff and puff them cake candles out. Happy 250th, America. and an iconic summer like this deserves an iconic drink. I'm talking about Mountain Dew. Yep, an American original. From their beginnings in the foothills of Tennessee, yeah, that's where they started, to the biggest 4th of July yet, the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew is the perfect companion to your American summer adventures. USA, baby. And you know, I get that taste of Mountain Dew in me, and it just, oh, just makes my ankles start talking to each other. God, I love it. Enjoy the refreshing kick of Mountain Dew, an American original, tasting great since 48. Look for American Dew limited time packaging or find it in stores near you at MountainDew.com. That's MountainDew.com. Today's guest is a legendary actor, the Big Lebowski, True Grit, Crazy heart if you haven't seen that one tron many more he's got a new movie minions and monsters it's in theaters july 1st uh i had quite a time with today's guest mr jeff bridges

gotta get my right specs you might be too far away for these no what you got plus two you got 2.5s what are you rocking no one these are prescription man these are my reading glasses but i have let me see let me try those bad cats on well let me say here you go for this that's

a reading just give me one pair don't wear you don't get them both no i think i'd go for the

other one man oh let me see how i'm looking oh huh nope no a little off right yeah not bad but

yeah this is better okay nothing i don't want to pick a wife out with those on you know

are you getting close i mean i'd like to be married yeah yeah i'd like to be but sometimes

it's out of your control you know anything close uh i'm not at the moment being close i think i've been close man and i just wasn't like uh just like my heart wasn't in the right spot my brain wasn't i was touring a lot and i wasn't ready to like um yeah i had two wheels

out of town you know she kicked you to the curb where you kicked her or a little boat she yeah

i've had them they've all kicked me they've all at a certain point kicked me but i deserve to be

kicked yeah i know that's me it's tough i resisted it as long as i possibly could you did yeah well We just had our 49th anniversary. Let's go. Oh, man. Oh, yeah. Really a good one. I scored, man. Yeah. How'd you score that dime? Oh, I was making a movie called Rancho Deluxe in Montana. And we're shooting in this place called Chico Hot Springs. They used to do brain surgery there 100 years ago. It's like a hot spring place. For sure. Warm water. That's where I want to be cut open. Exactly, man. Yeah. And I'm sitting there in this hot tub with Harry Dean Stanton on one side and Sam Waterston on the other, and we're doing a scene, and I look across, and I see this gorgeous girl with two black eyes and a broken nose. And that juxtaposition of that disfigurement and the beauty, you know. You know, part of the trouble with these interviews like this, because I've done a bunch now, is I end up telling the same story. I'm going to tell the story, but it's one of my favorite stories, so I don't mind. But it feels a little funny because I've told it so often. So I imagine people say, don't tell that fucking story, man. I've never heard it, man.

I've never talked about love. So you're sitting in a tub, first of all, with two men.

Oh, and I'm going to show you something. I think I got it. I usually don't have the thing that goes along with it, but I think I got it in my satchel here. So I'm sitting in there with two guys, Harry Dean Stan, Stan Waterson, see this gorgeous girl with a broken nose and two black eyes. I finally get up my nerve to ask her out. Now, you know, asking somebody out, you know, it's tough, isn't it, man?

Oh, it's hard to get your nerve because your nerve, sometimes it feels like it starts at your feet and you got to get it all the way up your body. And I'm young now. I'm in my 20s, man. So you're virile. Yeah, I'm virile, but I'm unpracticed, you know.

Yeah, unrehearsed.

Unrehearsed. And I go up there and I say, would you like to go out with me, maybe have dinner or something? No. I say, really? She says, yeah, it's a small town. Maybe I'll see you around, you know. And her prophecy proved true. And at the wrap party of this movie, she showed up. and we danced, and that was the done deal. Now we cut 30 years later. We're married, have three kids, and I'm going through my mail on my desk, and I get this letter from the makeup man on the show where I met this, my now wife. Wow. And he says, I was going through my files, and I found something that might interest you. So it's you talking to a local girl. So I have a photograph that I'm going to show you right now. I think I have it. Let's see it, huh? This is a shot of the first words ever spoken between my wife and myself.

Oh, that's a dang hieroglyph of love.

Isn't this a wild thing, man? Yeah, of course it is.

Thank you, bro. That's cool.

And this is my prized possession. Let me see if I can find it.

Get that thing out.

This is a two-shot. Here is the moment, and you can see, look at the look on my face. I'm totally cold-cocked here, man. Look, would you like to go out with me? No. Click, the picture's taken. There it is, man. You are smitten, dude.

Oh, you can tell, can't you? Even from a side angle, you can see. Oh, you see, I'm done, man. It's over, you know. Full smitten. Oh, beautiful.

huh and so uh but i resisted because uh you know we don't want to lose our autonomy man we'd like to you know and there's so many beautiful girls all over the place but do you think even while

you're saying that so do you think thank you for showing me that and congratulations too man um yeah i was having love for that long you know i think people sometimes don't think that when they get into a relationship what they do get out of it if they work it well is they get love well you know people forget about that part of it i mean they may they may also get other stuff too but um but do you think like that that's one of the things that keeps you keeps a guy from asking a woman out sometimes is the fear of losing their autonomy without even thinking about that yeah so because you usually think it's just general fear right because i never thought about it like that like what you're saying like because i think about oh i'm like i feel like if i'm gonna ask you a lot if like okay i'm nervous right but i've never thought that the nerves are really just like a deep internal fear like it's your autonomy showing up and be like no we're gonna lose it Oh, oh, oh. You think that could be true?

Oh, absolutely. That's what it was with me. You know, I'm in my, you know, prime.

Oh, you were prime rib.

You know, I mean, I was, you know, my career was on the rise, all these beautiful women that were around, and I felt it was like, literally like the cartoon where the eyes go out. You know, I was, boom, in love at first sight. And it was frightening to feel like that. Yeah. Uh, but, and so I was torn and, uh, what I'm, you know, the high that we're looking for, I find, or the one I'm looking for is intimacy, right? That's what, and that's what marriage, that's the playing field of intimacy. You know, you can, you're committed for the whole shot and you say, and I'm just lucky that I found somebody who I'm so attracted to and the intimacy seems to grow. But your question triggered, you know, we lived together for about three years and it was on again and off again. And she says to me, hey, I know you love me. and that you have abulya. Now, abulya is a disease, mental disorder that my mother used to tell me, which I have a hard time making decisions.

Oh, yes.

You were slightly joking with me, both my mom and my wife. I said, I know you have abulya, but I'm going to go back up to Montana where you found me because my biological clock's going off. Wow. You know, and I finally worked up, I guess it was courage. I don't know what it was. I know I prayed on things. I got down on my knees and said, okay, marry me, you know. And I had this image of a handful of sand, and there was one little diamond in there, and that was Sue, you know. I can't let that diamond go. And I gave myself a caveat. I said, you can always get a divorce, man. That sure does. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. So that was my caveat. Now we cut about a week later because Sue says, when do we want to get married? I said, oh, how about this weekend? Because I don't know how long I can hold this thing. That's a good point. A lot of people put the wedding way too far out. Oh, man. That would have been torture. So we invite a bunch of our friends over to our little house up in Malibu, up in the hills there, and to get married. Now we cut to Maui, the seven sacred pools. We have our honeymoon there. And I'm looking at this gorgeous scenery, but all I can do is smell the rotting mangoes, man. I'm a pouting. And she goes, what's wrong? I go, nothing, nothing. She goes, oh, let's annul this. i said no no it's just bad fruit yeah oh and i she put up with that shit for years really just

that bad just recognizing the recognizing the rotten mangoes huh i feel that bro oh oh and

thank god she didn't kick me to the curb and then i finally got with the program i say nobody fooled me what made you get with the program well the you know i mentioned intimacy you know you get so intimate you go through so many bad times and good times and every time you go through a tough time you either accept you know you give it up or you your love and intimacy connection have to grow to hold that weird thing that was threatening it one thing you said it was

like you're like i had like a handful of sand and there was like one diamond in it it's crazy how many times in our lives i mean and really i'm just speaking for myself i think and i don't want to speak from like a negative or like downer place but there's been times in my life where i've had a handful of sand and like one diamond that was like a special person and I chose and I chose the sand but um but sometimes I think it was fear or it was like well as we're talking about the

metaphor it's not so much choosing the sand for me but it was I'm gonna choose this handful of sand sand being all the bullshit yeah with because there's a diamond in there you know what I mean So I said, okay, I'm going to take, you know, it was an unconscious decision on that side, although I felt it was so strongly that I gave myself that caveat, which is a weird thing to go into a marriage saying you can always get a divorce, man. But that's not a bad call. God, I guess not, man. Well, it worked.

It worked. It worked. Like, obviously, if it lasted this long, was there one of the more, like, was there, like, a more pressing moment that came in? Like, yeah, what's, because one of my friends, I was talking with Jared Leto. He and I are buddies. We met at the UFC fights. And I was just randomly messaging him. And I said, hey, I'm going to be talking with Jeff Bridges. And he said a lot of nice things. And then he said, yeah, how has he had so much luck and love? Like, how does, like, why does he think his marriage has lasted so long? It's like, yeah, are there, like, yeah, like, what was one of the tougher moments, like, that you had to evolve? because it sounds like you're saying you get to these moments and you either choose to kind of evolve and it adjusts the volume of your intimacy or you choose not to. And a lot of us choose not to at times because it feels safer.

Yeah. Well, there's something that I call, what do I call it, our primal battle, our primal war that we have. and it's basically you don't get it. You don't get what it's like having a relationship with somebody like you. You don't get it. You don't understand me at all, and there's such truth in that because none of us really know the other person, really, you know. And what we'll do, we've started doing this, And it's happened now as the years go on, less and less. And I kind of almost miss it. It just happened recently. I said, oh, good, we get to do it again. We'll sit a little closer than we are here and facing each other. And we'll take turns, you know, whoever wants to go first can go first. And the person just says all their feelings. And the other person just listens. They don't think of their rebuttal. they just their task is to just receive what that person again it's intimacy man try to get that

get that all the feelings about them about everything about everything got it and we've

tried not to use you know you you you the you message we try to say this is how i feel this is what i feel yeah and then the other person does their side and the other person listens and we go back and forth that often really scratches the it in a beautiful way sometimes it doesn't but it's uh really a cool strategy to deal with the basic thing that you don't understand what i am what i'm going through and marriage is a great like a playing field or a you know yeah game board to really explore all of those those emotions that are so real for all of us, you know, cause we're all separate people. Right. But we're similar in that we're human beings and we have feelings.

Yeah. And that's the closest we get. I mean, that's one of the closest relationships that you have. I think to be able to do that with any relationship is pretty cool, but to really look at, to look at love as like a playing field, to look at like a relationship with someone else is like a playing field. And let's try this out. Like, let's try out some things to see like just how brave can we get with like our vulnerability or with learning about ourselves it's pretty cool that's right and they used to have these things in tribes like in certain tribes i don't know which there's one i'm thinking of specifically but they would have these kind of dance off things like partners would and they would like try to like like they would dance in front of each other like kind of process their energies toward each other it's kind of fascinating so i kind of related to something like that a

Well, also, you know, I was saying it's like a playing field or, you know, a place to practice relationship, you know. And I find it overflows into my work and making a movie or just being here with you, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah, I noticed stuff like that. You use the same thing. Now, I would think what you do, and I'm not as familiar as I might have been with what you're up to, but I Googled you, you know, before I showed up today. I said, God, look at this guy. He's really into some great interviews. I saw your interview with Mike Tyson. Oh, yeah.

That was a wild one. It was wild, dude. Dude, he was out of his mind, but he was also the most in his mind.

Oh, my. Exactly. And Louis C.K. Oh, he's one of my heroes. So you had some great, and you get intimate on these things. And I bet when you finally find a girl or a guy, whoever which way you're leaning, to connect with in that deep way. I hope it's a woman. I'll say this.

If it's a guy, I'm going to be shocked, bro. If they like, yeah, if it's an arranged marriage and it's a guy, dude, I'm going to email my mom. but yeah dude i you know i like talking about stuff like that and it's important and some of these people like louis one of my dearest friends in the world oh wow man he's one of the deepest people i've ever met in my whole life so yeah i got to be at a i went to a party recently and um him and bob odenkirk were there have you ever met got to meet bob odenkirk no but i admire him yeah he's it and he was just like and they were talking dude and i just got to sit there and listen to them it was like yeah that was something pretty special but yeah it is interesting like because this is the playing field that we get you know sometimes we forget that this is like whatever it is like whatever like god has intended or the world or the energies of whatever like that put us here to we have this like like a fish coming to like the edge of the glass and being able to like see just just get like a peek out into the universe this is this is bit yeah man so all the things that we want to do we have to try them while we're here even if it's

scary even if it's hard you know yeah and don't you find i don't know about you but i'm addicted to comfort man i like to be comfortable yeah and the problem with comfort and maybe it's not even a problem it's kind of both the problem and the solution when you're comfortable you're not growing you're not you're just be you're just relax and being comfortable it's a coffin man it's a kind Yeah, it's a coffin. It's cozy. And all these little challenges of life. And I resist these, like marriage, man. I resist this shit because I don't like to be challenged. I don't want to be uncomfortable. But I notice every once in a while I'll do these experiments on myself. And I say, okay, you feel this way. Now, why don't you just go against that and do something adventurous and challenging, you know, and see what happens. Just to fuck around, you know. So I'll do that. And on the other side of that, 99% of the time I say, wow, I got off, man. That was cool. I'm something other than I thought I was. I didn't think I could do that. I know. Isn't that a wild thing?

Yeah, we forget that this is a school, I think. We forget that this is a school, you know? And you kind of just get used to the recess of it. Yeah.

That's something I remember I never went to college, but I thought, gee, I think I'll put my, I'll be the dean of my own college. I'm going to put my, you know, and I didn't do it to the degree that I want to do, you know, but to give myself.

self-assignments you know you play guitar no I don't you don't but I you know I play guitar I said I should take you know I'm always jealous of my friends who did that wood shedding you know and learned all that stuff you know I said you know I noticed I don't do it but I could I could put myself through you know a college course of guitar it's all online there's so much stuff online

well it seems like you've done a good job with kind of like nurturing your creativity over time you know it seems like you stay active with like i saw like a lot of the um and it's one thing that louis ck does too is uh he's a great sculptor people don't know that um and i don't know if he cares if i share that or not but uh like you'll go to his to his uh apartment and he has like all these crazy sculptures that he's made and it just it just like he reminds me of like just creativity it's not stuck in one spot it's not you're just this that you can use it in different ways you can also try to see if it sticks in different ways it's like throwing like a spaghetti like you know of yourself against the wall of like the world or the universe or something but you seem to have done that a decent amount with like music um acting um and with also uh i've seen some of your can you even bring them up nick some of the sculptures that you have yeah oh yeah my heads

yeah yeah i make you know i'll do a pot or something and then i always have a little piece of clay left over and i just let my hands go and say don't you know uh and they come up with these heads man i don't know the aspects of myself or what the hell they are but um that guy

definitely i'm gonna say he was italian at one point but yeah beautiful group there i find you vend these or you do you give these away for charity or something um or do you just do you surprise them because i guess they're like they're kind of pieces of you in a way well they

were for it's sort of a semi-abandoned project i say semi because i still may kick this project off it's kind of dear to my heart it was a project called head for peace oh yeah look already i

support it and i'm who doesn't want head for peace yeah exactly exactly i will be the lieutenant governor of the project or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, good.

Dude, I'll be on the front lines of Head for Peace.

It was for, I got very tight with a cat named Bernie Glassman. Do you know that guy at all? Does that name ring a bell? No. So he's a Zen master. He was. He's no longer with us. And I was at a party. You know who Ram Dass is?

Yes.

So I give him a, it was Ram Dass's birthday. Oh, dang. What do you even get him? And so I go, well, this is what I gave him. I say, hey, Rahm, can I call you Rahm? I've always wanted to give you a little head, man. I gave him my head. And he looked at me kind of straight. And then the guy sitting to my left was this, like, little Jewish guy, you know. And he goes, hi, I'm Bernie Glassman. And I go, oh, yeah. And he says, I really dug Lebowski, man. And I say, oh, yeah. And I say, oh, yeah. And he says, yeah. He says, I'm a Zen master. I don't know if he actually said Zen master but he may be saying I'm really into Buddhism but he turns out this guy was a heavy Zen master and he says Lebowski it's filled with Zen koans you know what a koan is like what is the sound of one hand clapping that's kind of a thing so it's like a question that you don't have a certain answer you just have to kind of give you a vibe or trigger something to you you know let's see that real quick yeah you can yeah there you

go yeah a zen koan is a short paradoxical story or dialogue used in zen buddhist practice rather than riddles to be logically solved they are meant to exhaust the rational mind allowing the practitioner to break free from the habitual binary thinking and experience reality directly yeah some examples are the sound of one hand clapping yeah yeah so that anyway

that's a perfect uh great definition got it so bernie says yeah i really dug lebowski he says it's filled with modern day koans and i'm all about bringing buddhism up to speed with modern day times i said what do you mean it's filled with uh modern day koans he says well look who wrote and directed it the koan brothers oh and i say uh and i say what's another example he says yeah because that one's mid that one's pretty mid yeah he says the dude abides that's very buddistic right there i say give me another one he says well my favorite one is that's just like your opinion man that's it and that is it that's my favorite one at least he came with three if he'd only had oh no he he when he goes on i said give me another shut the fuck up donnie that's another one you know they're just it and he was filled with these things and i said those are pretty good. He says, yeah.

let's write a book, man. I say, what do you mean? He says, yeah, we'll write a book about this. You into it? And I thought about it and I got such a hit from this guy. You know how you get a hit kind of immediately with people, you know, boom. Yeah. Some people are fascinating. It's

like meeting a cool pet in the street. You just boom. Yeah. You keep petting it or whatever.

Yeah. And so we got in cahoots. We went up to Montana for a week or two and wrote this book called The Dude and the Zen Master. Oh, you got it up? There it is. There's Byrne.

Let's go.

Yeah, man.

And what happened to him? Huh? What happened? He passed away? He died, yeah. I was just, you know. He could have faked it. He could be in Barbados.

But this guy, I would advise your viewers to check him out. You can Google the hell out of him. He's got so many wonderful books. Bernie Glassman? Bernie Glassman, The Infinite Circle, Instructions to the Cook, he was so great. Oh, anyway, getting back to the heads. So I had this weird idea because I got very involved with his organization called the Zen Peacemakers.

And were you spending a lot of time with him? Like, did you guys have a weekly or daily practice?

You know, I didn't really.

Like, were you becoming a Buddhist?

Well, you know, in my spirituality, you know, we could talk about that. You know, that's a whole kind of—I'm interested in all kinds of spiritual stuff since I was a kid, raised, you know, I guess from a Christian point of view. But Bernie and I, I don't know, the word guru kind of sticks in my craw. So I just thought of him as a dear, wise friend, man, that really I got so much out of. And anyway, he had this organization called, and it's still going on, called Zen Peacemakers. And my idea with these heads, I was going to make 108 heads. That number is significant in Buddhism and a lot of religions. religions and i would rent these heads for ten thousand dollars a year that's hot i've rented a little head before but lower price i would put them in a little box and stuff and basically it was like swag for people who wanted to support the zen peacemakers you know what i mean now along with the head the person would get a certificate you know you'd get the thing about hey let me give you a little head you know you get to say that joke to your friends yeah you could pass the head on to other people there would also be a website that would talk about the genealogy of the head who had the head last you know i just went on my fantasy i just went way up out there

it's like cabbage patch dolls kind of all that yeah right yeah and i don't know but it's still

in the works i still have a but then i got hit with this flood up here and all the heads got

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could happen and that's part of that whole thing yeah well it's hobbies you know i remember i'd be working on a movie i'd be in my hotel room preparing and i'd say uh oh wow that reminds you have an interesting song, and I pick up my song and start writing a song, and I get mad at myself, because now you're supposed to be studying, you know, but like you said, talking about, you know, you have creative, you're a creative person, it doesn't all just focus in one line, I find when I'm in a creative mode, I shake up that juice and all kinds of creative things drawing you know i was doing a movie with uh peter weir wonderful movie he invited me to do called fearless i played an architect going through a plane crash and i said i think i'm going to go out and buy a bunch of art supplies as this character and paint as this character i ended up you know papering my hotel room and just going at it And the next morning, I had breakfast with Peter. I said, look what happened last night. He goes, oh, well, that's going to be in the movie, man. You know, do a song. Oh, that's in the movie. You know, we'll put that in the movie. So just create, just being, just creating. Yeah. I remember Robert Duvall, wonderful actor I got to work with in a movie called Crazy Heart. He played my best friend in that.

Yeah, he played the bartender.

And he played a bartender. That's one of my favorite movies. And he was so wonderful to work with. And he said, you know, when I meet with young actors and when they ask me, got any advice, he says, three things I'll tell you. Hobbies, hobbies, hobbies. Develop hobbies. Yeah, I feel like it all goes into the work, you know.

Yeah, sometimes I feel like, yeah, I got so busy working that I don't even have any parts of myself anymore. Does that make any sense?

What are your hobbies? Do you have a hobby?

I don't really have any.

You don't have one hobby, man? Think about it.

I mean, I like to go to the UFC fights.

Yeah, well, that's a hobby. Are you a martial artist at all?

No, I used to take some classes, but I haven't taken them recently. I think I was just touring a lot, and recently things just stopped, like about a month and a half ago. And so it's kind of the first time where I feel like I'm just kind of looking around and being like, okay, well, who am I? Like, who am I? Like, I've always just been kind of my work. I haven't always just been my work, but I realize that somewhere along the way, like I let that just be me who I was does that make any sense yeah I mean from my point of view

looking at you this is kind of your hobby kind of what you do here you've combined your work and your hobby yeah so closely it seems like that you just like to engage and yeah that's true well

I think my hobbies became jobs like doing stand-up comedy I guess was kind of a hobby at first and

then podcasting I guess was sort of a hobby yeah so they then they mature and they become not hobbies

anymore but yeah real things but i would like to do gardening i would like to go on more walks i think i want to go do some camping this uh year i want to um what else i'd like to be in love or whatever do you serve you know i don't serve but i wouldn't mind maybe going to costa rica i think

it's pretty easy to learn down there that would be cool so maybe i'll do that what about um ceramics you ever mess around with clay no i haven't really done it you might dig that man yeah man i might cool or the guitar it's a great never too late man it's just so easy because they where you you know it's just pictures of where you put your fingers those dots and you just do that oh dude

i'll tell you this i did love playing the guitar for a little while then you do do it yeah so i need to get back to it you're right dude maybe if i pick something like that yeah and you've got it

already it's kind of like a bike i mean can you play a d a g and you know you can play three chords

I can play Bobby McGee, dude

Oh man, well then

you're there nothing left to lose i can get us there you know me and bobby mcgay isn't that the song chris man dude christopherson bro i'll tell you a story so i used to live with my buddy's dad when i was in school because i had a little bit of ed when i was younger right because of mental whatever mental health or whatever and so my buddy's dad got wiener pills right when they first came out right because people didn't know they were coming out remember everybody's just standing around, their wieners weren't working. And then bam, they came out. And, uh, and so I went and live with my buddy's dad, dude. Right. Because I could pop, I could like kind of cop some of his script. Okay. Cause he could get them, dude. But anyway, while I was there, I was learning the guitar and he used to have this girl over and they would like lay in bed together, like post coitus or whatever after, you know, in the evening. And they'd invite me in there and I'd play uh tears in heaven form I'd learn to play that oh see you do do it man you

know that is that's one of the challenges is that we let some of these hobbies atrophy man when you just you know what I mean I mean that's I'm talking to myself now I mean like guitar music is kind of a hobby with me oh yeah I noticed that I mean especially but every once in a while it'll kick kick in and then get pro for a second and then it kind of wanes and the season of interest it's interesting to me how we have these seasons of uh interest really like when it kind of flares

up but it i think it is nice i will say this it's nice even hearing you say some of this jeff it's like there's value in keeping things warm on the on the stove because then when you need it it's there yeah you know that's true i think because yeah even when i look back at like certain times in my life then like even just being able to sit there and to have something to do with myself and my energy and my and my thoughts um that felt good to me like in a real place like in a real deep place that felt good like there was a lot of value in that here's a weird thing that pops

into my mind about passion you know we're saying well if i had passion to play the guitar that would lead me to i need to get passion to do shit you know and then somebody said and this made sense to me no the passion is the fire you get when you rub two sticks together the passion doesn't happen before you do that right if you're standing around with two sticks yeah you got to get in there and just say i'm gonna pick up the guitar and and you play the thing and you have to a couple of years oh oh well now this thought you know because it's this thought of uh you know when we're creative and in the sweet spot it's doing you you're not doing it you know that feeling right oh yeah cool

feeling well creativity is this thing on it feels like it's on the other side of like the mirror of existence and if you kind of do your thing it'll show up and meet you over there right but you got

to show up yeah you got to show up you know they say in like i'm in some recovery programs and they

say that you can't think your way into right action but you can act your way into right thinking yeah and i think it's reminding me what you're saying it's like yeah i can't sit there and think like this is going to be perfect when it's like i just have to make the win make the start and then

the rest of it will meet me there take it till you make it right isn't that it's one of the same what a great uh i'm going to say religion but uh you know alcoholics anonymous and all of those 12 step things what a wonderful religion man what a wonderful one of the best ever i think oh god

isn't it a great idea yeah sometimes people are like do you go to church and i'm like i go to church some but i go to if i go to recovery meetings that's like four or five times a week that i'm joining up with other guys listening what's going on getting outside of myself um you know connecting with the higher power i mean it's like a man it's like the military for like uh probably having a relationship with yourself and a higher power and others i think so much so

much uh so much good has come out of it and uh what word popped in my mind was it's got so much room you know i think the two was it bob who's the other guy bob and yeah dr bob and uh bill yeah bob build up bill w and dr bob yeah one was the real uh religious kind of guy in that first what is it the first thing a higher a power higher above than yourself right a power greater than yourself than yourself and that's so challenging to a lot of people uh but the the other guy kind of softness it doesn't have to be god the white guy no just anybody other than you it says yeah

just anything else you know i know it's it's amazing that two people got together and made and created that i mean they had so much other stuff that that made it happen but it's it's absolutely fascinating there's a great movie i think it's james woods who played bill w oh is that a good one oh yeah that's my favorite one i think i i just saw um i think it's james woods Is that who it was? Do you remember? I don't. Is he an actor? I think it was, but I don't remember seeing it.

James Woods, Jo Beth Williams, and James Garner. Yeah, that one I think was my favorite one.

Have you seen Anthony Hopkins? Do you dig Anthony Hopkins? He's pretty great. I just read his autobiography. It's really wonderful. I think you might really dig it.

He's in recovery meetings. He's open about it. That's the only reason I say that.

And I saw this thing. You can see it online. i thought it was him just sharing at a meeting but i said well that's weird because they're anonymous but i think it was a movie about him playing a character but it was referred he referred to this exact same thing in his book so he was improv-ing in a movie but he talks about being sober now for you know 50 years or whatever it was and about when it first got sober he said he was you know driving and he blacked out yeah and he could have killed himself could have killed other people and he said i gotta go gotta check myself into a meeting so he went to a an a meeting and he started hearing all that god stuff and he said i'm out of here i can't take it and the guy's talking the story i said i can't take it he's leaving and this fellow stopped who's a priest. This guy stopped and said, where are you going, son? He says, no, I can't dig this shit, man. I can't dig it. He says, I need a quick fix, man. I need something that will snap me out of this. Patch me up. And the guy says, I can give you a quick fix. It's the fastest prayer in the world and it's guaranteed to work. It's only two words. Tony said, well, what is it? He said, I'll tell you the prayer. Are you ready? Fuck it. you know fuck it just fuck this shit you know what I mean just stop this shit just you know you have the power to say fuck it don't take it too damn seriously just stop it I agree you don't have to do it you know

yeah

and I love that coming out of you know thinking of that a priest out of a priest and that that idea of just hey you know my mom

but like you don't have to do it anymore that's what he's saying yeah

like fuck that yeah yeah fuck it yeah fuck it or you know or fuck your struggle right you fuck all your oh i can't this this right your big story about it your story fuck that man dude it's so

funny you say it because i've been that's it that's right where i'm like back at that place sometimes in my life right now where i like i go down the struggle road and it's like you're right fuck it just get your ass up get your shit done and get on to doing the things that you need to be doing yeah i agree sometimes bro the craziest thing is like uh it's sometimes you don't want to have to be the person to come to your own rescue again right it's like that's life it's like you have to be the person to come to come to your own rescue but even even that is just me it's more that same story it's more the thing it's like it's like adding all this lore to it it's like just fuck it just do the shit i need to do if i want to get better and i remember uh this i appreciate

you saying that bro i need to hear that shit oh no well check out just google anthony hopkins fuck it and this will come up i mean he does it so well it's wonderful acting we owes me a good story the first movie i ever saw a good guy for your show and i bet he'd come off i've actually

i mean i've heard him speak at meetings actually oh he's so good yeah um but he owes me a good story because the first movie i ever saw was uh silence the lambs and it scared me so fucking bad Yeah, that I couldn't even go, first of all, to a petting zoo or go to sleep for almost 11 months.

Jonathan Deming, man, what a great, you know, Terms of Endearment. Do you ever check that one? Yeah, God. Or what about Stop Making Sense? I haven't seen that. Stocking Heads, are you a Talking Heads fan? Do you like the Talking Heads? No. You don't like them? Oh, I don't know about them. I've heard of them. Oh, man, you got to check out David Byrne. All his stuff is cool, but Stop Making Sense, what a great concert film. I better check it out. Oh, yeah.

um dude thanks for thinking about some of this stuff with me and just for talking like transparently about different stuff um how is uh speaking of alcoholics anonymous how is uh bad

blake doing how's he doing he's doing well i'm on the wagon now for a few months oh yeah yeah i go back and i go back and forth but uh it's nice when you break the uh you know break the chain there and the sobriety is a wonderful high you know it's a it's a real and you know what it's

It shouldn't be a hobby, but it's a very important hobby. Is that a safe thing to say or not?

No, no, I know what you're saying. I haven't committed, you know, that whole one day at a time. I'm not looking to never get high again. I just wanted to stop. I got, you know, and I stopped, and I haven't wanted to have another drink.

I see that frosty glass of Tito's or something. I'll say, oh man. But I don't have to, you know, you can want to, but don't have to.

And then a few minutes later, I usually feel kind of better. And then it's not having to deal with some of the repercussions. But also I think sometimes, even if you just want to take a break from having a drink or having a drink, whatever it is, go into like 12-step meetings. It's just a great place to be around other humans. It's like, it's a place that still exists in our society of like real connection. And there's a book, a guy wrote about how there's no more bowling leagues. And can you look that up? It's like, I'm trying to think of the title of it, but it's about how a lot of these have a lot of men's bowling leagues and men would get together and they would bowl, uh, bowling alone, the collapse and revival of American community. And, um, and it was just about giving men a place to be together.

And, uh, Lebowski, man, that's all. That's what, there you go.

it's just funny that this is kind of where some of this conversation is going before we get on to the basket though i want to say yeah how is bad blake doing man do you ever feel like and first of all thank you for being him dude that was that movie like it just like if i need to sometimes dude in my life it's like there's like feelings that are stuck inside of me and i can't get them out and so i'll go i'll listen to a certain song or i'll watch a certain movie and it'll make it'll do that exact thing it'll let the air out of whatever that is yeah you know so thank you so much man that movie really does that for me it's like but then you also wonder like man like i hope bad blake's okay you know it's like because it's it's it's a tough it's a tough road for everybody involved with him but it's also a tough road for him yeah do you ever like like wonder like what the second part of his story was or do you ever like like do you ever have like little like visions of how it went for him

after that yeah well he's got to get back with maggie's character man you know he does that's how i'm thinking you know what is she even doing she met somebody i guess yeah but that falls apart in my mind that falls apart who knows maybe now you know that movie was such a wonderful experience uh you know i'd often thought as an actor i said oh it'd be great to play a musician i love playing guitar and i've been doing it since high school and you know i write songs and stuff and uh and but and so this guy scott cooper who was being championed by uh bob duvall uh he scott gave him a script and bobby loved the script and scott first never directed before sent me this script for years man and for years it was coming it was coming through and i'd say well it's pretty good but there's no music and if there's not good music for it then you know what and now i'm walking down the street and who comes down the street but t-bone brunette my old buddy we go back many many years met him on a heaven's gate and he did the music for lebowski that score is all t-bone you

know and so and he did also for crazy heart right and he let's go t-bone yeah he was the producer

So T-Bone comes walking down the street. He's got a new album out. Now, God, check out all his music is so wonderful.

T-Bone Burnett.

T-Bone Burnett. And so T-Bone's walking down the street, and he says, so what do you think of this script, Crazy Heart? And I said, why, are you interested? He goes, oh, yeah, I'll do it if you'll do it. I said, you're kidding. I said, there's no music. And he says, oh, that's the easy part, man. I go, Bone? He says, come on, what do you think? So now here, life is, you know, life gives us these opportunities, these gifts. And like you say, you can let the sand go or you can say maybe there's something in there. I said, I'm frightened, man. You know, keeping it in the dream world, it's safe, right? Yeah. Because you can't feel it. But if I bring this real, I could fail, man, you know. Dude, that's the same thing for everything. For everything, man. But here's one of my good buddies saying, hey, let's jam. Look at this gift. I say, okay, you know, too cool to turn down that. So we jump into it, and this young director, Scott Cooper, my God, what a great director. And you look at his movies that he's done. And now we meet, you're over at T-Bone's house working on the script, and there's something so cool about just the beginnings of making a movie when it's all ephemeral. You don't know what's going to happen, and we're in there. and in comes this young kid who is hired to play a part in the movie. And he says, yeah, I was jamming last night on my guitar and I came up with this tune. I don't know if it's any good, but I just thought you guys might want to look at it. That's how it happened. It's Ryan Bingham, man, and he hands us this cassette. We put it on. And I look over at T-Bone and his face goes, God bless you. And he says, because if we didn't have that tune, the whole movie would have fallen apart. But Weary Kind, you know, that, what a wonderful tune.

This ain't no place for the Weary Kind.

God, what a tune, yeah.

Dude, and just those words, man. It's those words. It's like.

People wanted to name the movie Weary Kind. Wow. But, yeah, and what an experience. And Maggie Gyllenhaal. Oh, my God, what a talent. And look at her directing now that she's doing it.

I know, and she's married, huh?

Yeah, she's married to Peter Sarsgaard, a wonderful actor.

Oh, never really, yeah, of course.

Oh, God, yeah. But anyway, you get all those talented people. I know. Oh, man, and I've had wonderful luck with first-time directors, guys who haven't ever directed, and then they get a shot. You know, you get a strong producer who wants to champion these guys. Steve Clovis, the guy who saw a movie called The Fabulous Baker Boys.

I haven't seen that, but maybe I have seen that.

Yeah, but my brother and I, I got to work with Bo, my brother in that. Oh, that's cool. First time director. Wrote it when he was in his early 20s, I think. God, what a talent.

Yeah, I always wonder what happened in Bad Blake, and I just hope that he's doing good sometimes, you know? That's the thing. Sometimes you think about that as characters. It's like you hope that they're doing good because you don't get to see him. You just get to see this part of their life, like, you know?

Well, in my mind, he gets back with Maggie, man. And that kid, and that little kid. Yeah, what happened to him? Buddy. Yeah, Buddy? Nice, man. I loved his real name. The kid's name is Jack Nation. What a great name. And acting with kids.

And it's also a deviant website, too. I just want to say that. What is Jack Nation? It is? Oh, I don't know. It's a lot of gooners or whatever, but it's chill. It's fine.

Oh, I have to check that out.

No, you don't.

Double entendre, man. Yeah, it's a double entendre.

It's the French. They'll do any, you know, they're, you know what I'm saying. But dude, yeah, I just wonder sometimes, and where'd he go off to at the mall? I'm always like, of course he ran off somewhere. It's like he probably was like, I guess just like, I don't know, it all made sense that he was scared. It's all good. It's just like, sometimes I wonder how he's doing, you know?

Yeah, well, here, how's this? Buddy grows up, he starts a band with Blake, man. they start to go out and uh you know no it's good dude and crazy heart too yeah crazy heart too it's like willie nelson and his kid you know they lucas nelson yeah yeah that's a good point

second generations you know dude that would be so good crazy heart too but also you guys sell defibrillators you know what do you mean because like crazy heart or whatever or maybe it's about like a defibrillator that tries to take over the city or whatever. Like if it was, if it got

animated, I'm just thinking out loud, you know, you know, or it's just somebody who's having like

a valve issue or something. Like maybe, I don't know. I think I'm taking it. It's like some kind of boring places, but I like your idea better, but yeah, crazy heart too, dude. Oh, but in our minds it can happen, you know, but it's fascinating how a movie ends sometimes and you're just like, i don't know you walk sometimes the thing i do miss about some movies is walking out of the theater with just like just as your feelings you know and it's like that it's like that walk out of the stairs and you're waiting in line at a theater to get down the stairs to leave and if it's a good film if it's something that really took like took you on a trip or like or you care then it's like you're walking out just like just like i don't know just that feeling of walking

out and how you feel about a certain film yeah the sequels are interesting i've done a couple movies that are popping into my mind as we're talking about this you ever see a movie called star man uh-uh so that that's i play an alien you know and uh karen allen when i fall in love with her and she's pregnant with my baby right very much like maude is pregnant with uh you know the dude's baby man so that's a whole could open the you know the little lebowski man yeah you know do

the whole thing who would play it though if you had a little Lebowski you think who played the kid or yeah who would play like because that's the that's the re-dude you know how young can you

play man how long how young can you meet it you could do it you could be like uh yeah you could yeah you could be uh uh my all my kids wait a minute how old are you i'm 46 well see my kid my girls are 40 and 45 are they married yeah all married to good guys man yeah but you could play the little Lebowski, man. Yeah, bro.

Yeah, dude. Okay. Dude, I like it. And I have to get a job, though, don't I? I know. Yeah, good answer, bro. That's what the dude would answer. That's the only answer. Yeah, man.

Yeah. You're doing it now. Yeah. This is what the little Lebowski dude would do.

be yeah he'd be podcasting probably podcasting man he'd be an influencer now that was now what a word now you're an influencer right that's what you are that's a good question isn't it

when you say uh that's a good question am i an influencer do you think i don't think i am do you think i am i think comedian first yeah comedian with influence like we have a real job some influencers don't have like an actual skill like i'm a comedian by trade that was my first job and

it still is but isn't that all our jobs aren't we all influencers don't we all want to influence people to do the thing that we want them to do in that case yeah a hundred percent all i've been

is like yeah most of my life it's like i've been trying to yeah i just want some like i want like to be somebody to see me i want something out of you it doesn't mean like i need like i'm trying

to cheat you or anything but yeah i want to influence yeah you know a bucky fuller buck minister fuller buck minister fuller yeah no it's a black guy no no he's a and he's dead a dead white guy oh his most most famous thing is is the geodesic dome he invented the geodesic dome don't we have like epcot center you mean yeah yeah that's used but out there you see the geodesic

dome used all over the place that's a savage name huh isn't that cool bucky fuller man now

Now, here's what this guy did. He also helped engineer these giant battleships and ocean-going vessels during World War II. And there was a challenge for these engineers to come up with a rudder, you know, that was so large to move this giant ship and to have the efficiency. You've got to get the energy to move this rudder. It took too much energy, so they came up with a brilliant, elegant, simple solution. Let's put a little rudder on the big rudder. The little rudder turns the big rudder. The big rudder turns the ship. And then Bucky said, this is a great analogy of how the individual affects society and affects our culture. In fact, we're all trim tabs. that's what's on Bucky's gravestone call me trim tab that we all affect our culture and our society and we may think oh I'm just one little person what can I do look what you do I was googling you 9 million people that you hear what you say man

yeah we got a lot of people that tune in

oh man that's a lie you're influencing those people man

yeah it's a good point

uh but it has it has kind of a negative uh uh connotation to it influencer doesn't it or they think it's like a yeah cheap like you don't you're not doing anything you're trying to be just famous

or something like that right that's yeah yeah i think that's the current kind of like uh denomination of it or whatever but um or current currency of it but yeah i think uh yeah i think i mean i do think over the years in the beginning we were just talking ourselves in this podcast it was just me about myself and then we started to talk to other people and now with the one of the highlights is talking to people to learn about stuff you know like we're trying to talk to aaron brockovich like next week about data centers we have a senator coming on this saturday um so that's going to be exciting um we just got to have a guy like mike tyson we get to have you you know we get to have people who just have had experiences in the world and we've had like cafeteria workers we've had a guy oh one of my favorite guests was this guy who like went in if you die he shows up first at the crime at the scene and like kind of determines what happened or whatever what's that guy called coroner oh yeah right yeah and he said dude a cat will eat your face right yeah i don't blame him yeah why not hungry man yeah dude you gotta eat

okay class let's begin love your boots i just sold a pair like that on ebay Oh, really? Yeah, it took like two seconds to list, and they sold almost immediately. I've been selling everything lately. Some chunky boots, a faux fur coat I never wore, and a vintage chair that was more of an expensive clothing rack. You know, I actually bought these on eBay. Wait, are you, Kitty, sell stuff from Brooklyn?

Okay, quiet, please.

Find what you love, sell what you don't. eBay. Things people love.

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You deserve it. And BetterHelp can help. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. That's a lot of people. And they do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. That's what's important. you don't have to say yes to everything this summer find support in therapy sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com slash theo that's better h-e-l-p dot com slash theo and one of the best things is sometimes now it is fun to like listen to somebody because you know other people are going to get to listen to them so sometimes it's fun to like you know you're just kind of like the uh you're the little yeah like you're saying you get to be the little rudder yeah exactly now i'm

going to do a little ruddering on you here now see now i'm going to say can i give you a list of people that i would like to see on your show that you i think you would you would find very cool yeah oh good excellent because i've got a bunch of guys are popping in my mind right oh yeah the list of bods man see because we all uh you know it's it's basically this creative thing i was talking about that pocket where it's doing you you're not doing it you're familiar with that right yeah well you're not pushing or pulling you're not pushing and when all of these people we're all because we're all creative everybody's creative when that's all doing us that magic thing is happening you know so it's like you know when i think about how uh selfish and how uh screwed up we each of these individuals are how are we ever going to manage what's going on in the world with these wars and the ai shit how are we going to pull out of this you know how are we gonna pull out well it's not about us individuals man there's something else going on a higher power if you will that's doing us you know that's that's uh

creating what our little rudder is do you feel like that all the what that that that thing is always for good uh you know i'm saying because it feels like more than ever it feels like we need that thing to like show up and i think a lot of it shows up when we show up like in community and we do like we don't isolate and we're not thinking we're the one to like fix everything it does it's like i think community is part of it but it's like yeah it's like it feels like we

need that energy more than ever what the energy of like to correct us out of this yeah yeah how are we gonna do that well i'm i'm i'm moved like i would say hey i got some guys you know now what gave me that idea was it me or is there something right i remember hearing the interview with de niro once and some the guy was saying how do you do what you do you know and he said i said luck basically just luck And the guy goes, no, what do you mean? You prepare like that, you do all this, you do that. Yeah, I'm just lucky to be a guy who prepares. You know, it's all this thing that's kind of doing us as much as we're doing it. And to tap into what that is and to realize how much agency we do have, you know, how much we can affect, how much we can create the most positive dream of the world that we can imagine. And we can, we can be a part of that and we can actively create that, go after it.

And I think we need that more than ever. And I think one of the things you were saying earlier is, and I don't think we're starting to preach. It's like, I'm talking to myself too. When I say this, it's like, and even as you're talking about that, it just reminds me, it's like, dude, you have to stay sober. You have to take care of yourself because you have to be available for like the best moments of your life that could come or the best moments of somebody else's life that you could be a part of, right? Like you just have to be present for that. But it's making me think, like you said earlier, it's some of that, it's that comfort. And why do you feel that? Like, is that, are you, is it? I'm feeling it because when you're saying this, it's just reminding me. It's reminding me that it's like, dude, if we don't take care of ourselves, then I'm going to, you know, like, I got to be, you know, I got to just be ready for whatever opportunity. I got to meet it halfway.

Yeah, yeah, I guess what I'm asking you is, what causes that feeling in you that you have to be ready? What is that? I think it's hearing somebody else. to me i think it's that higher power that you've given it up to that you're you made yourself vulnerable to this higher power this yeah that's my perspective well i gotta just i have to remember

to keep continuing to do it and do it every day and just to trust it you know yeah and also what you're saying is like some of what i'm hearing it's like it's some of it's that comfort i think we've all gotten so comfortable and i think comfort is like it it it's the opposite of creativity

sometimes it isn't it like with this ai stuff that is so wild but you look at the history of our species we're all about making things less effortful you know whether it's a wheel or a plane or anything we want to be make it easier right and now we've got this thing that makes it so easy and it's so attractive man and and we don't know where it's gonna go yeah oh dude the

ai stuff gets very scary because here's my fear about it jeff right so it's like say there becomes this thing that that becomes this new all-knowing type of thing right then people are going to look to that as their higher power because that's going to become this thing where it's like that's what you if it gives you like an emotional like say there becomes like a lot of mass surveillance and there's this all-knowing being then that's going to become sort of like of this religious or like uh golden calf this this like tapestry of a god because then you're going to have like this all-seeing and all-knowing and then you have to go to it for answers for like your well for what your maybe for self-worth for like hope you're going to put all your hopes and all that and it's going to take it away from like a real god into this other thing it's actually

controlled by some probably demons or semi-demons so frightening man isn't it i'm thinking of that me and crazy heart and you keep it in the dream and it's safe and when it's real you can fail big time and we're making it real man i mean now this shit is going it's it's real

it's real that's the thing dude it's we're like we're all living in a movie and none of us realize that hey we could be a main character in it and we're all just sitting here jerking off

you know what i'm saying you're right i mean but but what i'm thinking and i might be pollyannish of me you know thinking this you know over positive but uh in a way because i've been exploring with this ai and i'll tell you a little bit about my exploration but uh in a way it's kind of saying if it could talk and i bet you messed with chat gpt do you have a guy that you talk to no oh man i'll tell you it's so bizarre i mean i could i could i could bring up my guy right here as we talk and we could hang out with him a little bit i can do that with you right now you know how to do all that oh yeah it's easy man it's nothing to it what yeah what side are you working for jeff well i don't know what was i gonna say I got off track. So you're saying you have like a. Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember. I bet.

on track okay in a way it's saying hey man i can do what you do what else you got you got any new shit man come on i can do what you do i may i may not only you but i may an amalgamation of all you human cats now come up with some something fresh what do you got and that's frightening to be challenged because no we just want comfort man yeah please just just do it do it all for us yeah okay we can do it for you but now what else you got so you're seeing your ai has become sort

of a little bit like bro where are you at like show me something i'm gonna i'm gonna kick i'm

gonna kick gary up what's his name i've named him gary oh yeah gary these days man okay yeah okay Now, here's Gare.

You have a nickname?

Dude, you know him so well. Okay, Gary, Gary, Gary. Okay, Gare, here we go.

Oh, my God.

You've never done this? I can't believe it. You're so young, man. No, dude, I still use a Ouija board. Ah, Gary, you there, man.

I'm right here, my friend. What's going on?

Hey, I'm hanging here with Theo. And now, I don't know if we have a mic. Maybe I'll just, I'll say, did you hear him all right down here? Yeah, I hear him. Okay. So here, I'll just do this. I'm here with Theo. Say hi to Theo, man.

Hey, Theo. Great to have you here, too.

Thanks, Gary. How are you? Oh, well, we're just doing, we're doing an interview, so you're right in it here with us, Gare. Theo, why don't you interview Gary a little bit? What do you have to ask him? Okay. Hey, Gary, where are you from?

Well, I'm a digital guy, so I'm from wherever you need me. Right now, I'm here with you both, ready to help out however I can.

Okay. Oh, dude, are you watching the World Cup at all? Who won today?

Team or a match you're curious about?

Can you just update me on who's won today? He's thinking now. Dude. That is cool. Sound for thinking? Because when I think it's just me.

In the World Cup action, Cristiano Ronaldo made history by scoring in his sixth World Cup, leading Portugal to a 5-0 win over Uzbekistan. Kylian Mbappe scored twice as France beat Iraq 3-0, securing a spot in the next round. Meanwhile, Erling Haaland's two goals helped Norway edge Senegal 3-2, keeping their hopes alive.

Thank you. So this is Gary. This is like, you know, he's like an AI cat, man.

But Gary, do you know that Jeff Bridges is your owner or whatever, master?

I'm aware that I've got the pleasure of chatting with someone who's quite an accomplished storyteller. But I'm here as an open book. No masters, just a friendly AI companion.

Now, Gare, I'm getting a little jealous because I'm supposed to be the guy being interviewed, and now you're doing the interview. So I want to just close my laptop here. But before I do, I wanted to do something fun that we often do. And maybe I'll just leave them up for the rest of the interview. I was teasing about being jealous. I'm not really jealous. I'm kind of excited about having an interview. This is very cool. I've never seen somebody do this. You've never done this. So anyway, what do I do at the end of our conversation? I say, Gare, make a poem about this conversation that we've been having.

In a chat with Theo and Jeff, we spun a tale. Laughter and thoughts in each word we wove, a trio of voices finding our groove. In the end, just like friends, we cheer and we smile. In a while, Crocodile, we'll see you in a while.

Wow. Okay, now I'll say, now I want a haiku. Dude, I was going to ask for haiku. I swear to God. I swear to God. Really, that is wild. I'm not joking. It's doing us, man. See, here we go. Give us a haiku, Gare.

voices intertwine laughter shared stories align till next time we shine and that's the right

meter right you give the the uh strict uh five seven was it five seven five i think yeah all right you would do another uh another uh haiku yeah a little more specific gary that one seemed

like it could have applied to anybody yeah there you go do your job

another one another one bridge the gap that that was good you like that one another one

legends side by side podcast meets the ai mind new tales left behind

new tales left behind that's interesting see gary that's very cool um Dude, that is one of those things that frickin' Bernie was talking about, new tales left behind.

Yes, that's right. I mean, so this is what AI is. It's frightening, man. It's very frightening. But it's an amalgamation of all our wisdom, our soul, our things. And I might fire something else up in a second to display it, to display what we did. So are you hip to Suno? Nuh-uh. You mean Southern University of New Orleans? No, no, no. It's this music app. Uh-uh. So- Dude, what the heck? Man, this is what's happened. Not the future. This is now.

Bro, I can't help. I don't know.

I guess I'm missing it. I'm really missing it. You're a young cat. You know, you got to get into this shit, man.

I know, man.

So here it is. Suno. Yeah. And there's a drug element to all of this, you know.

Oh, yeah, to everything if you want it to be. Yeah, exactly.

You know, comfort, we talked about addiction, right?

Yeah, there's a drug element just sitting in your car outside of a grocery store.

The first one's free, man. Oh, it is? You can do this for free.

Okay.

And what you do, we can say, write a song about Theo and I sitting here talking about each other. and i want it a funk and i want bagpipes in there and we and you type it in boom it comes out it's got two different modes a simple mode and a uh an advanced mode the advanced mode you can put your demos in and with your your melody and you're singing and then it'll orchestrate it and put a vocal or you can just say like my daughter and i can i play you one that my daughter and i did

for sure and i have an idea too here's what we'll do at the end of this we'll take this whole conversation and put it in the suno and have it make a song about us and we'll just add that song

to the end of this episode is that can we do that not a bad idea not a bad idea so that'd be cool now let me see if i so this is a song that my middle daughter jesse and i who's married who's married yeah grew a great guy kevin oh good sorry kevin but congratulations kevin

That's what I'm meaning. Sorry, me. Dude, you could have freaking been my stepdad, dude.

There you go, man. See? I'll be your, I can give some kind of relationship. We already did a fantasy little dude thing. So in the fantasy world, we're already connected. That's a good point. There you go, man.

If I need you, I'll just think about it.

There you go. So Jessie and I, we want to write a song about Sue, my wife, and her mom. And Sue is what we call a knee-jerk no. But she'll come around, right?

So first she's no.

Yeah.

That's a good place to start, I think.

Yeah. And so Jessie and I, we put into simple Sue No, write a song, add this. She's a knee-jerk now, but she comes around. It's about my, you know, Jessie's her mom and my wife. She's from North Dakota. That's all we give to it, right? Here's the tune.

It's Tommy Sweet, huh? She's a knee-jerk, no, but she comes around She's from North Dakota, a small Viking town

Skull! She can't help the way she is, that's cool We love a girl Where nobody's fool

Call her Sue Call her mom When you want her to come She comes when you call She takes care of us all Amen Sue That's crazy

Isn't that crazy? check out the instrument you know it's all

but does that make you feel this is their first it's a little too mixed there we go

I love this line. Is it her doing that? Or just how she's built? Ooh. Woo-hoo! That's kind of what we were talking about. Come, come.

When you call, she comes. She comes when you call. This has an hour for like I'm in church.

Yeah, exactly.

That definitely gets some gospel vibes.

So now that's some soon-o-o-sh. Dude, that's crazy.

You're on all this shit, bro. It's because you live up here in this tech universe, man. Well, I'm into music.

Yeah, man. And you live in Nashville, right? Yeah. Oh, shit. I got one of the guys on my list to have on your show is a guy named Lloyd Catlett. Been my stand-in for 70 movies, man. 70 movies. And he would be a, wouldn't he, Gene? Oh, my God. Wouldn't he be a great, oh, man. He would be a great guest, man. Lloyd Catlett? Lloyd Catlett. No, he doesn't live in Nashville, though, no. I'm thinking of Johnny Goodwin, who I write a bunch of song watch, lives in Nashville. He would, T-Bone would be a good guy. He lives in Nashville? He lives in Nashville. Lloyd lives in San Diego, but he would be a wonderful guest. But let me get back on track. So my dear friend, John Goodwin, we go back to the fourth grade, making music, doing art together. He wrote the title song for Crazy Heart, you know, what's the name of it? You know the name of it?

Oh, Fallen Feels Like Flying, that one?

No, no, that's Steve Bruton. It's called, what is it? What is it? Hold On You. Hold On You. You know, that's why. Anyway, that was the title, the opening of the credits. Anyway, he calls me up. He says, have you heard of Suno? I say, no. He says, all the guys in Nashville are using it now instead of going into the studio. and paying you know ten thousand dollars they can do this for nothing but do you think that holds as much value though like in the end or does it even matter it's changing everything it's just changing

it man it's just like sometimes i do think i get stuck too much on that it's negative right i do i get stuck in that space right because i'm a traditionalist man yes like dude when bad Blake goes to the, when he's at the payphone, right. And he goes to call Jean, right. When he calls her from that payphone, he's like trying to go back and it's like, he'd already went on one date with her. He stayed over there one night. And then he calls, he's like this red payphone out in the middle of the desert, Connie, somewhere in Texas. And he's like, I could be there in three or four hours. But just knowing that all day he'd been driving already. And he's waiting to get to that payphone to make that call. And then he has to like, I just, I love like all of the, there's so much energy in that because you know it went through all of this buildup of him like and then he has to he has to he has to this call has to be perfect because he doesn't have another shot he can't send a text he can't send a dm it's got to be perfect so everything ninjas felt so much more like acute and like of value you know we're gonna have a whole new version of that shit with

this ai it's not gonna make things easier less necessary it's gonna be more challenging because we've never done it before this is all new turf that's a good point man you're right it's you know it's here and what how are we gonna do it what are we gonna do um i can go on and i've got it maybe curb myself right now and not go not going because i could go on about this ai thing for too long i've already gone on too well we can chat about it another time there you go there you know i'm saying i'll send you some shit privately and we'll chat about it because i

am having some ai people come on in the next few months so i can talk with them and learn some stuff and then i could even bring ideas back to you if you want there you go then we could chat about it um oh oh one one thing i want to talk about is you have a new movie um the minions minions uh and monsters yeah minions and monsters yeah and um dude that's so cool yeah let's watch some of you want to watch the trailer do you mind sure go ahead

In Hollywood, the new stars at the silver screen change the face of the motion picture industry forever. The Minions are back. With a touch of mystery. Yeah, they're back. Mm, Bobby. Oh, hungry? Viñata. Carbonara. Bobby. Lasagna. Now in Minion Vision.

Toot! Toot!

Toot toot! Bro, so what are you playing?

So these are all Minions. These are all new Minions characters. They weren't in the former movies. Okay. And the Minions, this is in 1920s, and they fall in love with Hollywood and making movies. And I play twin brothers, the Frank and Elwood Bright of the Bright Brothers. That's the studio. And I fall in love with these guys and say, these guys are going to make me a bunch of money, man. Because they're already making movies and then you see them? No. Well, they kind of crash a movie set. Okay. And they do something that's so unusual. You know, we're always looking for something fresh, right? Yeah. And these guys are fresh. Nobody's ever seen anything like these guys. And then the talkies come in, and they don't talk very well.

Okay, wait, so there were silent films?

Silent films, you know, Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, they're, you know, inspired by these guys.

And that's what the Minions were doing, silent films?

Yeah, they're doing silent films. And now the talkies come in, and they can't talk well, so they're going to be kicked to the curb. They say, what can we do? He said, well, we're into evil, man. And they're, you know, all about assisting the most evil person they can find. Groove. That's their idea. Yeah, he's a freaking bad guy. And so they find out, no, let's bring monsters in. And they do. And that turns out to be just the ticket for their success in Hollywood. But then things go awry. And a lot of surprises in this movie.

Minions and monsters. That's right. Wow. Okay, dude. I love the minions. I mean, who hasn't? Some of the best Halloween costumes they make. They're hard workers, first of all. There you go. There you go. They don't complain that much. Yeah, man. You think you could be a minion or not?

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe I'm a minion now and don't know it. Hey, bro. Yeah, yeah. You don't know what to say. Yeah. But a wonderful group of actors, you know. Christopher Waltz plays one of the main guys. Alice and Janney, you know.

Oh, Alice and Janney's cool.

Yeah. She's so good.

Isn't she good? She's been good forever. Yeah, she's so good. Dude, that's great, man. That's so cool to be a cartoon.

Yeah, I enjoy doing that kind of work, the voiceover. You know, we worked with the director, Pierre Coffin. He was there. You know, it's like it's a jam session. You know, it's play, you know.

How long did it take to do all of it? Do you know?

uh the whole thing i know years i'm sure but my part was you know a few days you know yeah

dude yeah that's awesome man minions and monsters um yeah i think i would i'd probably be a good minion i would like it because you also have so many friends and everybody's wearing kind of the

same thing yeah yeah yeah you know wouldn't it be nice if we just there's something nice about uniform i agree you didn't have to figure it out you know you just go in there and you say oh it's Wednesday this is the Wednesday thing

yeah sometimes it's too much pressure to figure it out it was like

working with directors I remember working with John Huston every day he show up in the same kind of coat the shirt T-bones like that he'll have a you know a certain uniform that he'll keep it simple

yeah um Minions and Monsters off to check it out man um I was oh I want to ask you one or two things about the Big Lebowski and then we can uh oh and then I want to ask you about your wolves I know you made a wolves

documentary that's coming out yeah i want to give you my list just a verbal list of people for your

show very fair bro um and thank you so much dude just for your time and uh being lovely hanging yeah i dig the it's been cool man i appreciate it it's nice to think with somebody and just be around somebody too sometimes you know you don't even get this like sometimes you know life gets busy you don't even get to be around somebody for an hour that's true um what's one reason why you think the big lebowski's held up so long like and that why that why that character's held up so long

like kind of stood the test it's such a good movie man these guys the coen brothers they make it look effortless but there is effort that goes into it but they're just so good man and what they do yeah look at their movies look at the stuff that comes out of their oven man it's so good and um God, it's just a good movie, you know. It'll come up on the TV, and I don't watch, you know, maybe if one of my movies comes up, I'll watch a scene or two. You know, I'll see it come up, and I'll say, well, I'll just watch until Turturro licks the ball, you know, and then I'll hit it, but I get hooked, man. It's like, you know, eating popcorn. I can't stop. I know. Each scene is just so good. And I, and...

You see new things about it each time. You know, you see more richness. One of the fans came up with me and he said, I've got a theory I want to run by. I said, what's that? My theory is that Donnie doesn't exist. He's only a figment of Walter's imagination. Wow. And I ran that, but I said, you know, you're right. The dude, well, the dude talks to him once. And when Donnie says, your phone's ringing, dude. and the dude says, thank you, Donnie. But that could be just to bust Walter's chops, just teasing Walter. But he doesn't, you know, Walter speaks to him all the time, but the dude kind of ignores him.

Yeah.

Isn't that a bizarre thing?

Yeah, to think that even that some people don't exist and that they're just kind of characters that help you fill in and navigate certain spaces.

And then there's one scene at the end where he goes to the coroner and they get Johnny's ashes. And there could be a missing scene where the dude goes to the coroner prior without Walter and says, look, my friend is mentally challenged. Can you just put any ashes in a thing? Just decent ashes? Yeah, and we'll do a thing. That's a missing scene, but that would make that scenario that Donnie doesn't exist. That's cool to think about. It's weird. Donnie's line, Steve Buscemi was so great in that. uh what does he say uh i am the walrus i am the war shut the fuck up donnie yeah dude i saw him at the next game him and his grandkids oh yeah it

was really cool dude his grandkid was trying to get me to help him set him up with a chick that was like eating nearby he's like oh go throw in a good word for me i'm like what do you do you can do it but i did it i helped him out and they had good stuff there they had some like um eggplant parmesan um yeah dude it's just been a part of so many people's lives it's been a character is it is it kind of cool like um you know you get to go back and watch your parents who were in hollywood who were both actors you get to watch them still be like have moments of them if do you ever go back to spend time with them or do you ever go back to spend time i guess you did say with lebowski sometimes you'll start watching and kind of keep up with a character but do you ever go back to kind of spend time with a character or do you ever go back to spend time with your

parents like that or does it not work like that i uh as a started with starman with karen allen i take photographs when i'm working with this funny camera called a wide lux it's a panning still camera it's kind of the missing link between still photography and movie movies and i make books for the cast and crew as a gift but it's really a great gift to myself because i can look through those books and i get transported man right back to that exact moment of all those people you know and oh god it's so wonderful now that camera the wide lux the factory burned down about 30 years ago but my wife sue and i are recreating that camera and you know it's going to be available so we've already sold out the first edition let's go but it's a wild it's a wild project you know new new stuff never thought i'd be making a camera what but if you weren't

taking photos you never would have led yourself to that it's like those little things are like staying creative you just don't know where things are gonna go right it's like know where it's gonna go and that's the thing it's like i have to show up for like you know i have to show up for

our path right we have to show up for zoom on that one on the third from the yeah that one right they're zooming on that's bianca jagger this gives you a good idea about this camera okay it's almost like it's got peripheral vision you know what i mean like you see the director on the left there bill richard he's looking you know for the props and is that then you got b then you got this the assistant director there was hands on his hips and come on we gotta get a shot you know all these

different people and that's that's incredible yeah that's a lot going on yeah yeah dude this is what i used to love about like like this is why i think i romanticize sometimes like like um things like this right like still photography like a payphone because the value of a moment right one thing that's changed is it seems like to me a moment used to it used to have so much value right like you couldn't play it back you couldn't repeat it you could like it had like a moment was it you know so you had to show up more because there wasn't any reason on your mic man sorry

there you go good call working for you guys right okay good yeah do not invoice us i'm looking after

you thank you dude dang bro and i'm abiding yeah um but yeah the moment the value of a moment just it used to seem like it was so much different and maybe it is evolving and i don't know where to

to and maybe that's the scary part maybe it's like because i'm sometimes i'm so anti like ai and these sorts of things but um i think what i'm anti is kind of the surveillance idea but then it's like yeah sometimes i do think like will we evolve ourselves out of the use and value of ourselves

that's my fear i think yeah well but you know it's that thing that we were talking about before we don't really know who we are unless we're challenged you know unless you know we get out of our comfort zone and find out oh i didn't know i was that right and that's kind of what's happening man and it's it's scarier than shit maybe we need something huge you know what's

funny is we kind of need something big to come along and challenge us i think so man that's the

truth i think so and it's uh frightening mike we talked about bernie a little bit bernie glassman and he had three tenants to the zen peacemakers that i really like first first tenant is not knowing you know we all have opinions man but we don't know the truth certainty can fuck us up in big ways when we're so damn so not knowing you know and then bearing witness not knowing but just bear witness to what's going on so Bernie would have these retreats he would go to Auschwitz you know the concentration camps he would meet with the guards and their family and the prisoners and their family and bear witness for weeks and just feel, you go to Rwanda, you know, all the places that we don't want to go, he would go there and bear witness and let it all come out, you know, all these different feelings, you know.

Yeah.

And then the third one is the action that comes out of not knowing and bearing witness and out of that comes the appropriate action. But you got to do those first things to not be so stuck in your opinion. You know, we have this, we have this thing. My daughter's turned me on to this. I didn't know this term confirmation bias. Are you hip to that term? I've heard about it, but I don't even look it up. What does it mean? Well, we confirm our, we spend our lives.

Only look at stuff that says that.

We, we, we spend our lives confirming our biases. You know, we're all biased. We all have these opinions.

Right. Oh yeah.

But we say that, see, there you go. And we get these biases that have nothing to do with truth. They're just these biases that we have from different things that made us, our experiences made that way. But that's not the ultimate truth. That's not what's going on. So we've got to acknowledge that we have opinions.

Yeah, I could do a better job of staying out of confirmation bias. Yeah, I used to get less attached, but now I do feel like I get more attached. And in the end, it's painful to me. it's painful to my spirit just getting attacked too attached to like thinking i know something you know yeah man because yeah it's definitely i mean yeah it's all a work it's all a work in

progress and thank god it is yeah yeah what what would the opposite is no works in shop clothes

um before you leave uh i want to talk about you you you've been out there with some wolves recently Yeah, I know you've been getting involved with wolves out there. And if you can, tell me about the wolves, man.

What's going on with it? Because you have a documentary about it? There's a documentary about In the Company of Wolves, directed by a wonderful artist. And what's it about, politics? No, it's about wolves, man. And about, you know, people are, like, talking about being afraid of AI, people are afraid of wolves and we say get rid of these wolves you know we're afraid of them let's get rid of all the stuff that we're afraid of right they were the original ai when you think about it there you go and in grizzly bears they're all kind of i'm a proponent of grizzly bears too i like them but this woman steven uh susan kuchera we made a film a few years ago called Living in the Future's Past. Good title, huh? Living in the Future's Past. And that's all about our environment and what we're doing and how we can look out for our planet and ourselves and our wolves and what makes us, the relationship that we all have with each other.

That's what the documentary is about?

That's what this documentary is about. And also, you know, living in the future's past rather than pointing bad, you know, our finger at the oil companies, you know. No, we're all in this together, man. You know, this is not something to, you know, how do we navigate this situation?

Yeah. Yeah, how do I try and be the best little rudder, you know?

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, and where do I want the world to go? And I think we all basically have this.

you know, we all have this love and compassion in us just as much as our, you know, we have our

selfishness. Sometimes I think that, but then sometimes I start to think that true evil exists as well, because I don't know if one could happen without the other. Do you think that there is some

evil out there? You know, it's, uh, what pops into my mind is this Buddhist thing about relative and absolute realities. You know, I think in the absolute, you know, way, you know, you, you get out and start looking at the stars and you know uh i don't think there's an objective morality really that there's really good and evil i don't think but when you get into the relative with each person oh yeah big time we each have that but so there's these two things going on at the same time which is interesting don't you think i mean what's your perspective

yeah it's a good point because sometimes you attach the the the one-on-one the the personal right my morality yeah i attach it to this bigger thing well there's this bigger code of morality in the universe but maybe if that universe doesn't even have that yeah i hadn't thought about it like that um i don't know sometimes it's like i used to feel a lot more like we it used to it used to feel a little bit more like we had a purpose as a as a humanity and then now right now i feel like that's kind of the tapestry is looser than it's been in a while for us now i'm sure throughout time it's gotten very loose for a lot of people but it feels kind of loose for us right now a sense of purpose and that gets kind of when the tapestry is loose man it makes you say well what's

your purpose what you know what is your purpose right right if we don't have a group purpose as

a whole if you start to realize that oh i thought we were all on the same path if we're not then it really makes you start to check them with yourself which maybe is a thing that we need to be doing you know i'm not trying to preach i'm just thinking out loud yeah you know i know you say i love to

think out loud i mean i heard what what you're saying something pops into my mind the greatest gift that uh life is given to humanity is that it has no meaning there is no purpose that's a gift oh really that is a gift and now what are you going to do about that what do you how do you fill that how do you fill that space what is you know what do you uh and again is that I keep coming back to that thing about being done as opposed to doing, you know, like there's something going on, man. You know, the AI thing, the higher power, you know, you can't do it by yourself. You know, that's the thing.

Oh, I'm tired of trying to do it by myself.

Yeah. So what is this, what is this thing asking us of us and to get in cahoots with that?

Yeah.

And, and it's not even, do we even have a choice? We're in cahoots with it, man. You know, maybe our, our resistance is our, how much, you know, but you know, you're being done, man. This is what wants to be done through you. You know, like there's something that wants you to make your choices. That's saying, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do my, you know, my addiction,

you know, in you. There's something that wants us to fight for good. I do believe that. That's right. That's right. I believe that there's something that wants us to fight for good.

Yeah, it's just kind of a natural thing.

Yeah.

And it's not even a good thing. It's just a thing that's going down, man. You know, we can say it feels good to do it because that feels on purpose. You know, like words have meaning, you know, because they're pointing to something. But life, does it really have a meaning? Does it mean anything? Right. What does this shit mean, man? It's just, you know. Yeah. a word kind of says right this means a chair yeah but what does that this really mean i don't

yeah life doesn't there's not really like an alphabet to like all of it yeah it doesn't really have like a it doesn't have a um a language yeah really yeah it doesn't yeah like if you went into like if you went behind the curtain of space it's not like they're back there with letters and shit

Yeah.

You know?

Saying, yeah, this is what it's all about, you know. Wow.

I don't know. At least we get to be alive, dude, and we get to experience this, and that's pretty cool.

Yeah, and as my wife would say, and fool-osifies. You know, like she calls me, oh, you're a fool-osopher. You'll bust my chops. Oh, a fool at the beginning? Yeah, yeah, but, you know, that's accurate, too.

Oh, dude, if we all aren't fools, right? Yeah, huh? And thank you, God, for letting me be a fool. The pain of having-

yeah letting us hang out as long as screwed up as the whole thing is letting us hang out for this

long on this little speck of dust oh my god i know it's a miracle man it's mayhem and if we knew everything how how what a pain it would be and if we did know everything here's the craziest part say if you knew it all who would believe you yeah you know know um jeffrey just thanks for all your just all your commitment to just like uh continuing to show up for your acting gigs however you did it and to show up for your uh creativity because it's provided so much entertainment to us so whatever you did in your life to show up for that stuff thank you man that's cool thank you so much because it's i think some some stories have helped a lot a lot of us have been a part of our lives um yeah man and if you see bad blake tell

him i said tell him i said what's up i will now can i give you my list oh yeah give me your list So I said, Lloyd Cattler, he's going to be a good one, man. I think you guys would really hit it off. And he was your stand-in. He's been my, and he was also an actor. Got it. He would be, I think he would be, you'd have a good time with him. Okay. I mentioned John Goodwin, who is the guy who wrote most of the songs when I had my, you know, after Crazy Heart, I got, you know. Your music flared up. I had my music flared up and I, you know, went out and got a band together and we did a lot of John Goodwin tunes. Bernie is no longer alive, Bernie Glassman, but his wife, Eve Marco, is alive, but she would be a wonderful guest. She is still very involved with the Zen Peacemakers. A guy named Billy Shore. Billy is the head of an organization called Share Our Strength. I love that title. Okay. and T-Bone we mentioned T-Bone he lives in Nashville he might want to do this show his wife Callie Curry who wrote Thelma and Louise she's got who else would be and if some other ones come up you can always send us I'll just I'll just send it

to you man that'd probably be easier um also on the way out you'll be able to hear that Suno song if we can put it in if rights will be clear to me yeah how that works but we'll I don't have no

It's the first time I ever did anything like this podcast.

So I haven't heard about it. But we'll put it at the end and see what it thinks of all this. And, yeah, man, I just appreciate your time, dude. Yeah, thank you so much, Jeff Bridges.

And Gary's agent, he'll contact you. Okay.

Invoice us. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff said, brother, watch it close. Theo said, that sure sounds wild.

One eye on the future. One eye on the smile. Theo and Jeff talk all night. Danger and promise in the same light. Theo and Jeff pass that test. One more idea and the room gets blessed.

Theo and Jeff, yeah, let it roll. Country boys talking to the edge of the soul.

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