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Today's guest is an environmental activist and a consumer advocate. Her name is notorious with being for the people. She's known for leading some high-profile cases over the years. Lately, she's focused on the rise of data centers and their effects on life around them. I'm thankful today to spend time with Ms. Erin Brockovich. And I will find a song I've been singing I'm on this. If you need to move this, Aaron, you can. Let me open your water. Sometimes these are very...

I've learned that over at the hotel. I was like, my lord. And I work out.

I was like, I can't get it open. That's the crazy thing about today. Especially, honestly, with this Ascentia company. I just opened it for you but you can't even get in their waters it's like that's how bad it's gotten that they almost keep you locked out of clean water in this country

that's why my daughter will carry a knife boom she'll go just like that she's military police she's hilarious she was yes they're both out now Matt was combat

your son was combat

my dad was Navy fighter pilot so definitely I'm a military mom and a military daughter

oh that's beautiful will thank them for their service from us and thank you for your service uh i know you um as probably most of uh people a lot of people do i know you as an environmentalist right um kind of a truth seeker i guess i would say and like a an activist i guess does that how do you like to be

i never say activist because that's always like a connotation um i i advocate for clearly people

what about the term like a consumer advocate is that fair to say kind of a people advocate Okay. A people advocate. Me too. I feel like I try my best to be.

I do too.

Yeah. And for our listeners that don't know, how did you get on this track, right? Like, take me through your journey. You know, I know about the movie starring Julia Roberts that was made about your life, Erin Brockovich, but take us into the journey of like, what happened to create the story that led to the film? Like, how did your activism like lead to one of the largest settlements at the time that had ever been i think it was like over 300 million dollars 333 million 333 million that was awarded time at the time is it now they're selling for like 33 billion it's not to laugh at but but hey times have changed dude erin walked to the bank so they could run to it that's for sure uh so take us i want you to take us through that journey uh for our listeners that don't know obviously you had to care for the outdoors how did that start

Okay, well, I've always been an outdoor enthusiast. I was born and raised in Kansas, and I love the outdoors. Everything about it spoke to me, mostly because I hated school. I sucked at school, and it took years before they really understood I have dyslexia.

Oh, you do?

I do.

Let's go do My Friend Has It.

I'm a dyslexic. Hell yeah.

Dude, you guys don't get any credit.

I know.

And some of you shouldn't, but a lot of you guys should, dude.

You should. Interestingly enough, off topic, and I'll just say it really quick. So I'm ambassador for Made by Dyslexia, run by Kate Griggs and Sir Richard Branson, who's also a dyslexic. No way.

Yeah. Dude, we got to get a good dyslexic on here.

You do, and they're everywhere.

I know, dude. Half of my friends are like, they can't even complete a handshake. They're just not doing good. You know, it's like.

we just like code differently we have pattern recognition but i didn't even know until i became ambassador for made by dyslexia that there's one billion dyslexics on the planet

no one billion a one billion d's in this world that's crazy let me see right a billion i'm saying that's ridiculous yeah i gotta learn a little bit more about this um so take me through you know your journey or experience as like a human advocate, like as a environmentalist, you know, um, can you just take us through that so that for our listeners that don't know.

So I have to say, I think I was as surprised as anybody.

else honestly so how it happened was as i grew up in kansas uh went to school at kansas state then i went to a design school in texas and then i moved to california i ended up being a regional manager for kmart oh yeah and i wasn't my favorite job and then i ended up working at fleur engineers and constructors so i was raised by an engineer it's kind of fun for me i like to create things etc etc even though everybody always told me i couldn't do anything you know with the dyslexia oh so but i always pushed against that so i'm one that pushes against these things so

out of the gate that dyslexia might have gave you that edge like i can still do it did i was born

don't put me in a box because i will get out and i will kick and scream the whole way there so amen That's one of my traits. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't. None of us like it. I don't like being labeled. I don't like being judged. I don't like being put in a box.

Someone was like, mimes like it.

I'm like, fuck off. I mean, that's just my motto. But I don't like this. What's your motto? Fuck off.

That's a good motto.

Fuck it, fuck you, fuck off.

Dude, that's the best motto. That should become our national anthem in this fucking country, to be honest with you. Okay.

But I'm an F-dropper bomb, so I hope that doesn't offend anybody.

Yeah, we'll pick them up at the end of the show. Okay, so you got the dyslexia, you got the spirit, you got what you need. That's right.

So I go through all this process. I end up getting married. That was the biggest mistake of my life, three times over, and had children, and got in a car wreck in Reno, Nevada, and moved down to California, met an attorney by the name of Jim Vitito, who was Ed Masary's partner. So Ed Masary was the attorney in the film. And we had a trial and I lost. The jury told me to get a job.

You had a trial for what? Oh, for the auto accident?

For the auto accident.

Okay, got it.

And we lost. And of course, you know, the lawyers told me we're going to win all kinds of money and make this right by you, Aaron. That did not happen. So I went back to Ed Masary and I said, you promised me things would be okay and they weren't and I need a job yeah so Ed gave me a job so in the beginning of the film Erin Brockovich you'll see her doing all these interviews and of course I'd been a single mom and I was turned down for every job but I but I had Ed cornered you promised me something and I showed up it's that power of stick-to-tiveness that I talk about when you show up things are different right yeah and see that's something and we'll get into that in a minute I don't want to jump ahead of it but that's what's going on right now out in this country people are showing up amen and I love it because I'm watching it we all are especially with the data centers we're united bipartisan and when we get united we change things things going to happen. And I love it. And so that's what happened. I showed up with Ed. I ended up getting a job, uh, starting in the workers' compensation department. I like people. I'm a people person. I'm a chatty person. I want to know about you, what's going on in your life. That seems odd. So I was a perfect fit in the workers' compensation department. So one day Ed came into the office, just like you see in the film with a big archive box of files.

Got it. And the movie's Erin Brockovich. For people that haven't seen it, you can go watch it. It's... Starring Julia Roberts. Starring Julia Roberts.

And Albert Finney.

And Albert Finney. Oh, great actors.

Known for her great push-up bra.

Yeah, look, I'd hold them in place. You know what I'm saying? I mean... I'd donate my hands to Haynes or whoever made that thing and let them just... You know, I'd be the wiring in that thing, baby. Anyway, let's move on.

I had to giggle when the film came out. I'm like, that's what you got out of the film was the push-up bra, not what happened to the people?

Well, you got to bait and you got to get them on the hook. You do.

So they were on the hook.

So you're working in workman's comp?

So I was working in worker's comp and then Ed brought a box into me that was a PI case, personal injury case. And he said, do you know how to open a personal injury file? I had not a clue what I was doing, but I said, sure, I know how to open it. So when I started to go through the file, I'm like, okay, so I've now put myself out here. I don't know what I'm doing. I better learn what I'm doing.

Got it.

I started reading the files. Inside this file box were medical records.

Okay, and it's just one of the files that's like in the box?

Yeah, it was just everything about a personal injury case was thrown in a box. And what kind of made me go, well, that's odd, is there were real estate records in there. I'm like, why are real estate records and medical files in the same box?

Yeah.

And the reason for that was to jump ahead, and I'll go right back. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Pacific Gas and Electric was a utility company trying to buy Roberta Walker's property.

Okay, and Roberta Walker was one of the— Plaintiffs. One of the plaintiffs.

Right. Got it. And so she had contacted Ed because PG&E was trying to buy her house. And so she just threw everything into a box. As a matter of fact, Roberta kept everything in a suitcase. So it all just got thrown in a box. So I like, you know, I like a challenge. So I'm pulling everything out of the box, making my little piles. But I was curious about the medical records because they were of children. And everything was done in a bar graph. So all their T cells were off. Their white cells were off. Their red counts were too high. Now, I'm a mom, and I'm thinking to myself, God, if I saw blood tests like this on my kids, what the fuck is this?

You're going to be spooked.

Yeah. And so I started researching it more, and it was leading me to cancer and diseases. So I asked Ed if I could go out to Hinkley, California, which he was thrilled to let me go. Nobody in the office liked me. I annoyed everybody. My skirts were too short. My attitude sucked. My bras were showing, and nobody wanted me around. So I was like, score, get out of here, and go. That's classic. So off I went to Hinkley, California.

And the reason why, so just to get a little bit clearer, so in this box, this woman had hired the attorney for what purpose?

To settle a real estate claim.

Okay. So that's why the initial hiring was there. But then there was all these other records in there. Why was Pacific and Gas trying to buy her house?

Because Roberta was on to something and they had water issues. And PG&E was holding these town hall meetings trying to convince everybody that there was nothing wrong with the water. Now, I'll tell you something I've learned ever since I began Hinkley. You piss off one mom and you pissed off Roberta and they've got great instincts and they think you're lying to them. They're going to go find 10 other fucking pissed off moms and they're going to actually use these instincts and they will come at you. And so these moms were getting upset. Hell yeah. And they knew it was just that moment.

It's time for moms to get upset.

Oh, yeah. And they've got this hunch, this instinct, this intuition. And they make it their job to find out because you've harmed their child. Yeah. And they don't believe you. And so that was the first clue for me, even in the files, talking to Roberta on the phone before I ever met her. Something was going on. And, you know, I have learned I always listen and believe the people. And people will show up, but somebody else tells them. And when I first even started my work in Hinkley, I was getting the, you're not a doctor. You're not a lawyer. You're not a scientist. You're not a politician. Like, so what do you do and why are you here and why should we believe you? And I had a moment where I was gobsmacked. I'm like, it never dawned on me that I had to be any of that.

Right. All you have to be really is just a curious baddie.

Absolutely. And to be a human and to tell you those two-headed frogs and the green water coming out of your tap is fucked up. And I'm not leaving. That's what happened.

I'm not leaving until these frogs have one head again. That's right.

So if y'all think that's normal, I'm sorry. You'd call me crazy.

And there's so much of that gas. You see that all the time. even just like about podcasters talking with people like you're not a um politician you're not like a um right science uh sciencer you're not a uh astronomer stop talking yeah because you're none of those and i'm like bitch but i'm fucking curious and i'm fucking loud that's right

how about that absolutely and you know what curiosity is a good thing yeah it it can oftentimes get you in trouble but sometimes it's quite surprising where it might lead you well it just

I don't know it's not things should be fair but I think if things are fair people can operate from a place of comfort of peace and a place that gives them more autonomy yeah if things are fair like I know that there's going to be like setbacks in life and some people aren't going to have the same advantages and people are going to have disadvantages and stuff like that and some people are going to be born in a less like circumstances but overall if you could I don't know And I guess things are never fair, but it's like, I don't know. That's something I think that a lot of people try and fight for is things should be fair. You should be able to raise your kids in a healthy enough environment, you know?

You know, that's a great word, fair. And in Hinckley, what I have learned over 30 years is people and communities always handle the truth. They won't handle the lie. That lie is unfair. And when they're not told the truth, it's unfair that they have to suck up the consequences of that lie. So fair is an interesting word. And they were being treated unfairly.

Unfairly. Well, there's a lot of transparency issues now. We're going to get into some of that in a bit. But all right, so you get out to Hinkley, California. And what's popping out there?

So all the trees are dying. I'm out there. First of all, when I'm boots on the ground, and that's what I like to do. I'm out there generally barefoot. I feel things. I connect to nature. And the moment I was there, I could feel something was wrong. You can just feel it. We're energy. Water's energy. An environment that's damaged, it's energy. But the trees were dead. The cows were covered in tumors. People were reporting really bizarre things to me. They themselves had, you know, these chronic headaches, skin rashes, constant nosebleeds. The fish had, you know, tumors on their body. The frogs had two heads. And the water was green.

Are you serious?

I'm serious.

The frogs had two heads. Two heads. Bring up one of them. Well, two of them.

You got a two-headed frog on there?

Yeah. Hey, you want to see this two-headed frog? That's a lot of pedophiles use to ask stuff like that.

You can see, like, so there's other chemicals that can cause frogs to have two heads.

Oh, my God. Look at the second one. That one is.

They had two heads.

That one has dyslexia. Look at that one.

Look at the green one.

Well, you know, I could believe that because definitely I've been told before. You have two heads.

Sorry to laugh at my own joke. But I thought that was.

Two different brains colliding together.

That was pretty good, I thought, based on the looks of that one.

But it was stunning. And I'm from Kansas. I don't see this shit in Kansas.

Right. Well, that's probably because the nature was a little bit more like. Like, I mean, if you're heading out to California, there's a place where there's a lot more probably industry going on and things could be a little bit more damaged, you know, because there's, but in Kansas, you were probably coming from a pure environment, I'm guessing. And also, dude, I remember a time in our town, like people couldn't whistle for like two months or something. And maybe it was something in the air or something was going on. You know, we had a long, what's it called when the moon and the sun cross each other?

Eclipse?

Yeah. Yeah. We had an eclipse one time. I swear, I think lasted probably three days over there and people couldn't whistle. You couldn't hail a taxi for half a week over there.

I've been down in Louisiana. I spent six, eight weeks down in the bayou with the whole BP oil spill.

Oh, did you really? We'll get into some of that. Okay, so you get out to Hinkley. You're seeing all these things going.

By the time I finally got Ed to go out there with me, he did not know who PG&E was. So we're driving along. He goes, okay, so kid, let's go over this. And I've seen all the stuff you've brought back. PG&E is a water utility. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah. I go, Ed, I'm from Kansas, and I know who PG&E is. They're a ginormous utility. He's like, what? So that's how the whole thing began. And so it was through my record search at the water board, that's when I started discovering in writing reports that the area was contaminated with a chemical known as hexavalent chromium.

Wow. Bring it up. Let me see it right there. Hinkley groundwater contamination, PG&E, Pacific Gas and Electric, used chromium-6, or hexavalent chromium, a cheap and efficient rust suppressor. Correct. In its compressor station for natural gas transmission pipelines, hexavalent chromium compounds are genotoxic carcinogens. What does that mean, genotoxic?

And they're mutagenic. They can affect the genes.

And they can be passed on?

Correct. Oh, my gosh. And you can see trisomy 7 and different diseases like that in the children. See, and I was seeing a pattern of nasal pharyngenal cancer, throat cancer, lung cancer, kidney cancer.

Got it.

So as I started, we could, at this point, getting a year into it, Ed can clearly see what's going on. Now, what had happened with PG&E was, again, as I said earlier, they were holding like these town hall meetings and they were telling everybody, and again, talk about unfair, they were telling everybody.

that it was chromium in their water, which is a natural element, and it's good for you. You can find it in your breakfast cereal. They weren't telling him that it was hexavalent chromium, and it was a poison. And so as all this data started getting put together, and I put together what I call a hot doc book. So as a dyslexic, I'm here and I don't take numbers in the environment like five ppm and calculate forward. I always calculate backwards. And I needed to go find those higher numbers in time to prove what they had been exposed to over 20, 30 years. Wow. So as I started getting into my record searches, I create these hot doc books, which is like almost a trial notebook, which I'm just doing instinctually because I'm just trying to put the pieces together myself. Trying to make it make sense to you. Yes. Wow. Yes. And by doing

that, you're putting together a great case. Yeah, unbeknownst to me. Got it. And, you know,

I was just out there every day of my life. I was like, nah, this doesn't make sense to me. And this was a huge cover up. And this is where I've said, you know, people would have dealt with the truth. Hey, we need to get you out of here. We're poisoning you. But it was the lie that becomes so insidious that you just drag him through that. But once Ed realized this was a lawsuit, he had to go hire a couple more attorneys because he was about broke borrowing money against his house to keep things going. Wow. So he started to believe in it that much? That much. Wow. Yeah. And so he found two other law firms. That was Ingstrom Lipscomb and Lack was the head attorneys there. And we had a lawsuit, and we had 634 plaintiffs, and it was filed as a direct action, not a class action. Because in a direct action, everybody's damages were different. Some people were closer to the PG&E facility where they had higher readings in their wells. Some were further away where we couldn't prove that the plume had gone through yet. So we filed a direct action.

And just to go back real quick, the hexavalent chromium, what was it in there? It was in there to prevent rust from the pipes from rusting? It's an anti-rust inhibitor. So it was a gas

compressor facility. So actually there was other cases that I went and backtracked and found later, But from Topak, California, they're pushing and pulling natural gas out of Texas. And then it would go from Topak, California to Barstow. And then in Barstow, it would get pushed and pulled up to Kettleman. And so think of it like the engine of your car. And these facilities are big, huge piston engines pushing and pulling this gas through. And so they have to run water through the system so it doesn't cease to operate. Wow. And these chemicals have, like chromium-6 is an anti-rust inhibitor because if you don't have it, rust will corrode the pipes, right? And then they would take all the used water through the system and dump it into unlined ponds.

So it goes right back into the soil.

Right back into the aquifer.

Right back into the what?

Aquifer, the water zone.

Yeah. And now I see how the data centers came on your radar because that's sort of the same thing. They're using this, there's a similar thing that kind of happens is they use so much water to cool off what's going on. So I just, now I kind of correlate like, okay, this makes perfect sense. Why her involvement, right?

There's a whole lot of things about data centers and I know we'll get there. I'll stay on your pace. That set me off. And that was one of them.

Yeah, and we will. We're almost to data centers. um but what what was what was one of the toughest parts about going after a company that big like did you start to get scared did you personally get scared was there times you were laying in bed at night and being like they somebody might try to take you out like how heavy did it get

really people brought that up and i i didn't kind of go there until one day um i was stealing toxic hazardous waste off-site you were stealing it yeah oh you were pulling up somewhere that had it. Oh, I'm a bad guy. I'm stealing the toxic hazardous waste. Okay.

But I was...

To have evidence. Yes. Got it. Okay, so I'm sorry I stole your two-headed frog and a bunch of green fucking soil. Sue me. So PG&E called the cops and I was going to get arrested. I'm standing with my two-headed frog and my little file, you know, my little... What do you call it? Igloo. igloo because i knew to keep things cool i had my chain of custody writing everything down you really had one in an igloo yeah wow so i i'm like you're arresting me i said can i at least call my attorney so i called ed ed goes wait a minute you're gonna arrest her for what and they're they're telling him he goes you know what let him do it and i'm going what what the fuck then it's on file what the fuck ed anyway he said you do it you do it because it's going to be headline news that i want you to arrest this girl for what stealing two-headed frogs from a polluted site do it and they let me go and i call that and i'm like were you really gonna have me arrested he goes oh hell yeah i would have had you out in five minutes so kiddo don't worry god what a journey

so and how did he work afterwards with the plaintiffs so the the plaintiffs there was over 330 million dollars awarded and that was divided up between the different families at certain

amounts etc yeah so done as a direct action so people who live way out from a plume boundary received awards for fear of cancer versus the people that lived there 35 years right next to the facility that were exposed to high levels that had cancer and so the the judges made all those rulings based on the facts surrounding their particular case oh wow that's pretty amazing

what a journey huh did you know at the time that it was going to become such a big thing you had

no idea no wow none it was just one of those moments for me that this is it just didn't make sense to me. And it just wasn't right. And I felt bad for the people. And listen, they became my family. I mean, half of the group up there helped potty train my youngest daughter, Elizabeth. And I loved them. And it just didn't make sense. Yeah. I've lived around a bad rooster.

And it's, it can be a lot. The rooster's, his brain didn't organize with the sun or whatever. and he'll be doodle-dooing at dang 3 a.m. or whatever. You're up making eggs. You don't, you know, you're five hours early to work. You know, if you're a rooster that just does its own thing a lang, baby, that's a power move. And checking out Morgan & Morgan, that's a power move also. Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They've got over 100 offices all across the country and more than 1,000 lawyers working for their clients. They've recovered over $30 billion from more than 500,000 clients. That's not a typo. $30 billion, that's a lot, baby. That'll make that rooster pop, homie. These guys go to bat for people. That's what Morgan & Morgan does. If somebody else's negligence got you hurt, you deserve to be paid for that. So if you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win for you. Go to forthepeople.com or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone. Again, that's forthepeople.com slash t-h-e-o or pound law, pound 529. This is a paid advertisement. Are you struggling to keep your website and digital marketing up to date while running your business? now you can relax and binge on unlimited web design services with modify enjoy unlimited support a quick turnaround and your own designated designer modify has done my website for years and they're incredible sign up with modify today they make life easier and business better visit modify.com slash theo that's m-o-d-i-p-h-y dot com slash t-h-e-o for 50 off the last website you'll ever need that's modify.com slash theo pros trust the home depot for heavy duty storage

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How pros get more done. I think a lot of us are in that place right now where it's like, yeah some things it just just doesn't make sense and what do we do and how do we do it

Well, you know, and Roberta faced that, and I will share with you, in every environmental case that I work with, it generally is a mom that knows something's up but isn't sure what's up. But what frustrates these mothers is when they do show up, whether it be somebody at the state or a politician or a leader that they need information from or a city council, they're suppressed. they get the, oh, you're a hysterical mother. There's nothing really going on. And so they retreat and they feel defeated. So that suppression is something that happens at the very beginning. And then when that mom gets another mom, then they're like, I don't try to suppress me because I know something's wrong. And again, we're going to go back to, I don't have to have the degree or be qualified to sit on your city council board and I'm an idiot that they come back in armed with information. And so that's generally what I do. They're usually right, but I can go find stuff that I can arm them with. Here's what you need. Here's what's going on. This is what's a fact. And then they join forces with the other mothers and they become unbelievably formidable.

Do you believe that mothers still have as much power now as they did, like, at the time, like, of when this story started for you?

Yes. You know, I've seen it throughout in Flint, Michigan, the whole lead crisis, even down in the BP oil spill. I'm scared of some of those mothers. I'm like, Ed, would you say, you go in there and talk to her. I'm like, no, that one scares me. You go in there and talk to her because they know, and they don't want to hear it anymore.

You get a swamp mama down there and it gets upset.

But I'm seeing them come back, and I'm going to jump ahead, and then I'll stop just so you'll have it in your memory, too. They're the ones showing up on the data centers.

Well, one of the things that put you on my radar—I mean, obviously, I knew of you, but what put you on my radar was you wrote an article. It was like, if data centers aren't so bad, why are they building them in secrecy, I think?

Correct. Everything begins with that secret, even Hinkley, California.

Amen. Well, what hit me about it? Yeah, if data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

Yeah, that was in Substack, the Brockovich report.

And you talked about the biggest one, which is built in Louisiana. Yeah. In the flatlands, it says right here, in the flatlands of Northeast Louisiana, known for soybean fields and dense clusters of river cane, Meta is building a 4 million square foot AI campus called Hyperion. When finished, it will consume more electricity than the entire city of New Orleans and cover a footprint the size of lower Manhattan. And then it says here, Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high-paying jobs of the future, said Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry in a press statement. I thank Meta for their commitment to our state. And what shocked me here, though, was a resident of Holly Ridge, an unincorporated community in Richland, Richland Parish, said she found out about the data center the way everyone else in her community did when they started digging. Correct. And I was like, oh, she says, nobody told us anything. Correct. They supposedly had a big meeting. The whole community was supposed to come. Nobody knew anything about it ever.

Correct.

But how did data centers come onto your radar?

So I woke up one morning and I had 30 emails, 30 individual emails from the same community regarding the same issues data centers so having done this for 30 years now anytime I get a cluster of emails that's a sign and then I was like data centers it was almost a moment like in Hinkley California hexagonal chromium what is that data centers what's going on with data centers that I started looking into it and things I don't my questions weren't being answered about data centers. So what I do is I like to see the big picture and I like to create maps. So I created what's called Brockovichdatacenter.com where people, if they were having issues with data centers in their backyard, could self-report. And I've created self-reporting registry databases before. Think about it. We have no place where we can self-report. Everything that we report goes through an agency. Wow. Even in Hinkley, California, and it got stuck up in the California Health Department. Of course. Nobody

ever knew. And so many agencies are compromised anyway now, so why not create our own? This is

amazing. Right, and this is a place where people who I believe that are living, breathing, and experiencing these issues are the best source of information. So what I...

thought when I put this map out here in the first 72 hours, the map crashed twice. And I woke up on day three going, oh my God, it's not one town and one aquifer and one data center. It's the entire country. Wow. We've talked about Louisiana from the Midwest. Now, the next thing that I noticed, Because each one of these people in their submission, it wasn't this one town reporting the same thing. It's the whole country. They had no idea. They had no idea. They woke up to this construction. We weren't informed. City council didn't tell us anything. We're completely in the dark. Because these big tech groups came in and put these city council members under a nondisclosure.

Oh, is that what you're—

Correct. In every state. In every state, every city, every town reporting to me, we knew nothing. Non-disclosure agreements.

I just saw a video the other day. See if you can find that, Trevin. It's a woman at a city council meeting from, oh, here, I see it. Sorry, it says right here. A resident of Tyrone Township, Michigan, confronted local officials with a simple question. Have you signed an NDA with any private party regarding developments that could affect the township? Yeah, this was the clip that I saw. Can we play it?

Have you personally signed any NDA, any agreement, or had any private communication, such as meetings, phone calls, text messages, or emails, with any developer, company, landowner, or representative regarding any current or potential project that could affect Tyrone Township? Chris Robetta. No. Dean? No. Jennifer? I'm not answering your question. This is not the time and place. I can ask you whatever I want. Don't tell me what I can say. But we don't have to answer you. But you're communicating with me, Jennifer. i didn't think you were supposed to do that great carnes how about you yes or no not the police we've already discussed this so who's already discussed it i'm sorry who's already discussed it's been discussed who has oh who's discussed it i've not discussed this with you what are you

saying pam offler yes or no wow tam letting me down

Herman Ferguson

oh you Herman boy

won't answer Zach Tucker Mike stop you say guilty one more time you're up

wow

I'm not tolerating

and I love that

this is what I love this woman this mother listen I just become their biggest cheerleader you know this is not my story Hinkley wasn't my story it was their story this is their story And it becomes all of our stories. And I, I love watching moments like that.

Yeah. Oh, no, I think this is great. I like vigilante stuff. I like somebody who's just like in that moment where it's uncomfortable, you still speak, you speak through that uncomfort, that nervousness, you know, like whatever it is, like you're trying to speak to power and say, well, this is what this feels like from here. How are these big companies able to compromise? And I'm not sure that these people are compromised. We don't know, right? But it's interesting what the conversation she's establishing here. It's interesting some of their answers for sure. But how are some of these tech companies or any companies able to compromise some of these like smaller area council members, et cetera, do you think?

So these small rural council members, you know, they don't have a lot of funding. And these big companies are coming in, and they're talking $10 billion. And these council members are very lured by that because, you know, they want to have infrastructure and things like that in their own backyard. and they were kind of misled, but to sign a non-disclosure agreement probably didn't seem like a big deal to them for a big exchange to the city council and to the community to make all this money to build this center. And then they're lured into thinking it's going to create jobs and long-term economic gain when that's actually not what's happening, but that's the hook.

Do you think a lot of them are actually, so do you think a lot of the council people

actually lied to as well like it's a well apparently they aren't asking a whole lot of questions about data centers and they're just more lured by the money and that's the thing that really fascinated me with the self-reporting map because unbeknownst to all these other communities in different states across the country they're reporting the exact same thing i'm baffled you're talking all of our

City councils, because I tell people go local. And this is a situation in building data centers. You've got to go local because you need the permitting and the zoning. And they're lured into this. But that every city council across the United States of America, was that lured by money? Because these facilities are going in every state, multiple counties and cities across the entire country.

So that was a lot of the reporting you were getting, the self-reporting from people.

That was the first thing that made a map.

That we didn't know it. Nobody knew. Didn't know. But how are these companies able to do without people knowing? Because aren't there laws where you have to say, okay, this is something that's being planned in our city or in our town, and then people are allowed to come? Did you notice some sort of pattern where they're able to manipulate that?

A lot of people are reporting that they thought they were building a warehouse. and so construction begins and they thought it was a warehouse or we're here putting in a solar farm or some other reason hey we're going to build this out because it's great economic base for our community but as it starts to go from non-disclosure so we start at proposal like that woman she was in proposal phase and she was pushing back then but they wouldn't answer her probably because they'd already saw the non-disclosure and they were getting ready to go into the next phase, construction phase. And it's during a construction phase that people are like, whoa, wait a minute. You're destroying the land. You're cutting down all the trees.

That's when people notice it. Yeah. They're like, what's happening? Agreed. I mean, I think that's what the same thing that's happened here, even locally in Nashville. It's like, that's when it started to like, like it wasn't in the beginning phase where people even knew what was going on. It's almost like in the too late phase. That's what I'm noticing. Yeah. Let me look at this. Spartanburg County data center lawsuit. Residents say $2.8 billion project was wrong.

There you go.

Was wrongly classified as minor development. A group of residents suing Spartanburg County and Valera Holdings LLC, the company behind a nearly $3 billion data center under construction along South Pine Street. Public records show Valara submitted an application to redevelop about 905,000 square feet of the former Kohler industrial plant as a minor land development. The county approved it. Weeks later, the company submitted a second application for phase two improvements, including four proposed buildings totaling about 494,000 square feet, along with a power yard, internal roadways, electrical equipment, a metering station, mechanical cooling systems, and stormwater ponds. The application also was approved as a minor land development. An attorney said they also broke it into two parts. First, they did a smaller application, which was still a big development, and called that minor. So they're saying that they classified it as minor, and obviously that doesn't sound very minor. No.

And this is happening everywhere. First of all, I love how you pull stuff up like that. You and me could work on this shit together. Really? I'm just saying we could be trouble.

Really? What would I do? Do I have to go to court? I can be Atticus Finch. I'll be his son. You'll do the... Ricky Finch. You'll steal the two-headed frogs with me. I'll put them in that up.

We'll get this all put in an order that everyone understands. That'd be great.

I'll put one of them in that frog jumping contest that's over there in Louisiana. What parish is that in over there? Rain over there. The Rain Frog Festival. Now, that two-headed frog, he's a little top-heavy.

Yeah, he is a little top-heavy. Might not win. But going back, you know, it's so great to understand what is the future. You've got to go back in time. So to understand these things, you're going right back in time.

That's a very dyslexic thing to do. Oh, it's dyslexic thinking. Yeah, that's what we're doing here.

But to your point about the NDAs, they're like using shell companies. The city council is rezoning, doing different permits for minor changes or a warehouse that they're just expanding on. So they're telling you the truth, but not the full truth.

How do we force these companies to be more transparent? What can we do?

Well, that's a very big question because they have all the money in the world. and for smaller communities and city council, I don't know, maybe they're gullible, but it's pretty hard to turn it down. And I think the big companies, I think the responsibilities on them, by way of example, Microsoft has just now announced they're removing all the NDAs.

They now realize this was a bad way to approach it. But that is incumbent upon them. They know damn good and well what they're doing, but they're the ones that are not transparent.

You're talking about the NDAs regarding the data centers.

I'm talking about the big companies. They're the ones that are not being transparent. And then they mislead possibly all these council members.

Understood, yeah.

And the council members at some point know their tits in a ringer because... And they had a not NDA. So now their constituents are like, did you sign an NDA? Well, I signed an NDA. I'm not going to tell you I signed an NDA. Now they realize they're in a little quagmire. And maybe now they realize they're being lied to. But it's amazing that these big companies, you're talking the biggest companies in the world. For sure.

I mean, we're talking Microsoft right here.

Invaded like the entire United States and all of our city councils.

Well, it's all so organized at such deeper, darker levels. I want to go on two things real quick. For one, and this is just something I thought of. It's funny. If you sign an NDA, if somebody asks you, it's like you kind of all you can do is kind of like you're like, you can kind of only make the letters NDA. Like you can kind of make those sounds like. There you go. So anyway, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah. There you go.

Well, we could make a song out of that for NDAs.

Sorry, and that was just ridiculous, I think. But it says right here in January, Microsoft announced our community-first AI infrastructure plan, outlining our commitments to the communities where we operate or are seeking to operate data centers. As part of that announcement, we called for greater degree of local transparency. Today, we're sharing that Microsoft has made the decision to end the use of non-disclosure agreements with local governments as the next step in our work to deliver that transparency. we're committed to sharing information about our data center plans as openly as possible as we continue to build trust with the communities around the world in which we operate but do you think that they did this after they already had everything done that they wanted or do you think that they realized oh this is backfiring and so we have to backtrack and do it like this i think they tried to get away with it just like pg needed does that question make sense okay okay so they

don't learn sometimes they don't learn transparency you know just fucking say it on the up front and this is what I've learned. People will handle that truth. They won't handle the lie. So I think Microsoft realized what they were not expecting and what nobody, in my opinion, was expecting was the backlash from the people. And I don't know where that glitch was, but they're like, uh, I don't think so. So that's where they came back in. And you better correct that before you find yourself in some huge litigation. And these litigations, and when you're talking about something like this, and like even in California, we've gone from the water to the fires. They're not selling for $333 million. They're selling for $38 billion. So Microsoft, I think, tried to get those NDAs through and then did not expect the backlash from the people.

Amen.

So we, the people, once again, change the course of direction.

Yeah. Amen. I want to go back to, can you bring up her Substack again? And thank you for your time today.

Thanks for having me. And thanks for, you know, this is great. You've got so many followers and it's something that they can learn too. And it's probably happening in their own backyard and that you're taking the time to walk through this. I love it. Thank you.

Well, you're welcome. You're welcome. Oh, one of the things here that in this article, it says this was Governor Jeff Landry. And shout out Louisiana. That's my home state. I love it. And it says Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas, and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high-paying jobs of the future. Do you know what jobs are actually created by data centers? because I've heard a lot of like mixed results on that. And Trevin, if you can look up anything as well, but Aaron, what do you know about that?

Construction jobs, electricians, plumbers, construction jobs, and they're lured into, you know, the economy hasn't been the best. I think people are concerned about having jobs in the future. You know, we have the whole AI conversation that they're saying there's gonna eliminate all the jobs. So these are opportunities for, you know, our industrial workers, plumbers and electricians and masonaries and all of those construction jobs are available. And it's a good, you know. one to possibly two year job, but what they're learning is that's all it is.

Yeah. But yeah, that, yeah. As you're saying that it reminds me of Dr. Frankenstein. It's like to be building the thing that's going to hypothetically take you over. You know what I'm saying? To be building the, like to, to sit there and hammer each day, building a data center that you think may poison your kids or that may damage the air or like, you know, like, or that could be the thing that takes your job. That's, I mean, it's almost, it's like, it's like being trapped in a sci-fi movie.

It is. And then once that process starts and now you're taking all the trees and all the wildlife and everything away from us, you're talking, they needed a job, but it's not going to be a long-term gain for the community, especially if you are a community, even like down in Louisiana, that relies on tourism to get down in the bayous and in the waters and to hunt and recreation when you fucking destroyed it all? Where's your economic base now?

Well, it's not the people's fault, though. No. The people. Like, if a man is, I have to work to survive to take care of my kids.

And they're supposedly good-paying jobs, and they're long-term jobs. And so that's the socioeconomic thing that hooks them.

But they're long-term until it's built. Let me see this.

And then there's no more jobs.

Data centers are essentially giant collections of computer service. They typically take up massive spaces and use huge amounts of power and water, but they employ very few people. Meta's newest data center will ultimately create just 500 permanent jobs, though employment will briefly swell to about 5,000 during construction. Nonetheless, Meta found itself with no shortage of suitors willing to meet its demands. We set out looking for a place where we could expand into gigawatts pretty quickly and really get moving within that community on a large plot of land very quickly said Rachel Peterson vice president of data centers for meta we looked at finding very very large contiguous plots of land that had access to the infrastructure that we need the energy that we need and can move very very quickly for us and I'll tell you what else it had access to I know being from Louisiana water water because that's a wet state baby you know I'm saying bro you put don't even bro don't even i wouldn't even dry off in louisiana bro because you you don't yeah because you ain't gonna work and dude the crazy part is there's gonna be data and everything now now you're out there fishing you catching a flounder or whatever and they finding uh gigabytes in its uh lungs or whatever you know you just don't know and it's affecting nature it's affecting the animals bro

all of those resources will be destroyed to build the data centers i know and so you know this came in fast furious overnight and we are watching real time the rise of the people and i don't think they expected that and you do believe that yep i'm watching it happen everywhere you are yeah and they're they're making change you know we now have where are you seeing this happen

because i i i love hearing this and it gives me hope because it feels like we're not standing a

chance sometimes uh well we've shown up in force and it's not one state it's all states we're showing up in a completely bipartisan issue there's no division here this is right and left red and blue you're taking every resource that every single one of us thrives on and is essential to every one of us and i don't think they were expecting that maybe in one town one community not all towns, not all towns. And, you know, we are now, I believe, and you can look this up, we've got 14 states now looking at bans, moratoriums, or pauses. Blackstone, I believe you can look that up, just withdrew their big appellate court lawsuit that because of the opposition they said we're out hallelujah the people showed up and they're out and now we're looking at over 120 municipalities that have put on hey pause moratorium or flat out get out let's go aaron aaron go bra you can find out all day long over there on your computer uh with no u.s

state that's power people while no u.s state has an active permanent statewide ban on data centers Lawmakers in at least 15 states are actively considering or advancing temporary moratoriums. These pauses allow states to study the impact of facilities on power grids and water supplies.

And then it is the cities like in California, Monterey, Monterey Park City, banned them. Cities are banning them. So you got the 14, 15 states. But inside those.

states, state by state, county by county, ban, pause, moratorium. And you've got over 120 municipalities now under pauses, moratoriums, or bans. Let's check this right here. State-level

legislative activity. Several states are actively debating or have introduced statewide moratorium legislation. A list of those main lawmakers passed a temporary construction moratorium, uh but it was vetoed by governor janet mills i just met janet mills last week at the billy strings concert what does that mean it was vetoed she said no she's gonna let the data centers come

in but communities are pushing back so on my map we're showing legislative um issues that have failed or paused bring that or on hold in the map bring bring that up sorry to interrupt you bring

that up real quick i just want to give uh let me see yeah main governor janet mills um vetoed LD 307, a bill that would have instituted the nation's first statewide moratorium on certain large-scale data center developments. While agreeing that a pause was generally appropriate due to energy and environmental concerns, she vetoed the legislation because it failed to carve out an exemption for a $550 million redevelopment project at the former Androscoggin Mill in Jay, Maine. um it says right here the j main exception mills favored allowing the data center at the shuttered paper mill in j to proceed citing the potential to create over 800 construction jobs at least 100 permanent high paying positions and substantial property tax revenue for the town

yeah no she was originally supposed to ban the data centers by the state but she came back in and said she wasn't going to do that but that's when she made a change because a lot of them the state's giving them all these tax incentives. She took that away. Yeah. And it says here,

Governor Janet Mills supports regulatory oversight for large scale data centers, but firmly opposes blanket development bans that could harm local economic revitalization. While she acknowledges the valid environmental and grid concerns associated with massive tech facilities, her approach prioritizes a balanced framework over a statewide moratorium. I see. So she's just trying to think of it more of as a case-by-case basis, I guess.

So most states are now wanting to know, whoa, wait a minute. How much water are you going to use? What does this entail? What does it mean for the safety and the future of our environment? So you are seeing the pauses, moratoriums for one and two years, and some communities like in Texas, the local county, flat out banned them. You're not building one in our county. So in every state, you've got multiple cities and counties. And they have their own ordinances and rules. So they can stop them.

Oh, I see.

But by the state may not.

So it can be stopped at different levels.

Yes. And you're seeing many counties like Monterey Park is a city within California. So think of it as your upper level state going down to cities, going down to local councils and counties. They run in, they have like a tier.

Got it. Yeah.

So the local can say, fuck you, but the state might not take that position.

Right. But we also saw, I mean, from the beginning of this conversation, we saw that local was a spot where people were getting compromised a lot also. So, yeah, but there's different levels where you can have pushback.

Oh, yeah. And they showed up at the local level, and the opposition was significant. So in Utah, in Box Elder County, and that's been on the news a lot, it was Kevin O'Leary was coming in with a ginormous data center, and the people showed up in protest big time.

Oh, I saw that.

And the three Box Elder County guys let it come through anyway. So the governor came back in because of the opposition from the people and reduced Kevin O'Leary's facility. And the exact numbers, don't quote me on this, but almost cut it in half, if not three quarters. And because of the opposition, he had to do something. And then just recently, their House Speaker, the Senator, lost because of the whole opposition to these data centers and all three council members no longer out. So it's really interesting. And like Festus, Missouri, you voted them in, vote them out. They voted all their council out. So this is like, I think, something politicians should really be looking at. The opposition is strong enough. And again, in my entire career, in 30 years, I've never seen something bipartisan, this united, that everybody better be paying attention to because I think people – you're pushing people too far. at this point you're taking their water their air is jeopardized their land is jeopardized their farmland is jeopardized their sanctuary is jeopardized their wildlife is jeopardized the trees the rivers the creeks the birds all of it it's a stake too high including their health yeah and they're just showing up and it's enough and i think some some of our leaders should look at that you know they are gonna vote people out and you're you've put the squeeze on us it's too much you're you're taking all of the natural resources and the next thing that people are reporting their electric bills who's paying for this they are well let's go into some of that are

you what information are you seeing about that and trevin while we discuss this can you look up um Who voted to approve that data center in Louisiana? I want to know.

You should say a council.

Who was it?

It's going to be a local council.

Okay, a local council. I just want to know the names of the people that voted yes on it.

So we are definitely seeing local opposition winning, local municipalities, counties. Really? Like an example? Well, a big one is the Prince William Digital Gateway Data Center project. Huge, by the way. And that was Blackstone, and it was in the appellate courts. They've withdrawn. And the project is now dead because of the opposition of the people.

Wow, the Court of Appeals, it says right here, Prince William Digital Gateway Data Center project officially dies. The Court of Appeals affirmed on an August 2025 decision by William Circuit Court Judge Kimberly in favor of the Oak Valley Homeowners Association, 11 other Gainesville landowners. Okay, after a legal battle that lasted more than two years, the controversial Prince William Digital Gateway had proposed 23 million square foot data center complex planned on 2,100 acres near Manassas National Battlefield Park is officially dead. That's incredible. Well, you know, that's the thing that gets you about-

That's the power of people.

Yeah, I mean, it is the power of the people, Erin. Well, that's what gets you about Louisiana. It's like our state is all about nature. It's all about being able to fish out there. Water. Water. Water. So that's what they're there for. Absolutely. So that's why the largest one in America, they want to do it there in Louisiana. Yeah, can you pull up who voted for and against it? Okay, we have right here. They had Eric Skermetta. This is for Jean-Paul J.P. Cousin out of District 2 here. And then we got Mike Francis. Yeah, Mike Francis. Foster Campbell for sure. district five and then who they voted for it and who voted against it davante lewis that's wild bro uh yeah just curious man just curious um so i think what's happening

a this this has happened so fast it was just like everybody will tell you it felt like an invasion just stealth bombers coming in in the middle of the data centers you mean yeah the data centers. I agree. And they were just here. Agreed. And I think even council members were quickly wooed, non-DAs, and are now, again, stepping back and going, wait a second. That's a good point. I need more information here. But at the onset, I think the thing that's so frustrating for the people or why I don't understand, you as city council members or any legislative body or office, why do you not listen to your constituents? What sign is it that you're missing? It's not one showing up. It's a hundred. It's a thousand and disregarding your

constituents' opinions. Well, it's so funny you say that. I think it's interesting. People get into positions of like power and like elected positions, right? And they start listening uphill Like, oh, this is where the better information is coming from because this is how I get invited to like a dinner party or, you know, maybe you get invited to eat a special box of croissants or something somewhere. Somebody cut you off a beautiful sausage you never had or something. And that's your ear starts to turn like, oh, well, this is where the true information comes from.

No, the true information always comes from the ground and the people up from the roots.

Maybe that's where the roots at. hey the roots that's why they grow that way that's where it comes from out the mud but i think it's interesting that you say i didn't like of course louisiana because of the water water water that's it um what what let's get to some clarity on the water issue and on nature what truth do we know and what information is out there about how data centers actually use water and what effects that they have on nature? What information do we really have? Well, it's the amount of water that it takes to

cool the data center. So if it's a smaller data center, it could be 5 million gallons of water a day. A little baby center, bro. Right. But if it's a big data center, you could be talking 30 million gallons of water. Millions and millions of gallons of water. 30 million gallons a day? That they have to use a day.

A day?

To cool, yeah.

Let's see this. A typical medium-sized data center consumes about 100 million gallons of water annually. That's medium-sized. Roughly 300,000 to 500,000 gallons per day. However, large hyperscale campuses can guzzle up to 5 million gallons per day. So that's off.

And there's some 30 million gallons in there. You can find those around. You can even just Google that. I believe it was in Georgia, 30 million gallons of water was missing from one of them.

Well, people probably come and get you a little bit of that Georgia water. Get you a swig of it. It's probably 30 proof. A massive quality technology services QTS data center in Fayetteville, Georgia, drained nearly 30 million gallons of water without paying or alerting the county. But we don't know if it was a day, but still, it's a lot. That's a lot.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

And, no, there are some out there, and we can look them up. But if you have all these—

What's the process of the use of water? Because, I mean, they use it, but can you then, like, can you purify the water? Or, like, is there, like, a process that you can then use it again?

Well, so they just had, if you want to pull up Cheyenne, Wyoming. So there's open cooling and there's closed cooling. And they want to go to more closed cooling systems where the water has to pass. Again, that reminds me a little bit of the Hinkley situation because you've got a closed loop system. You're going to need chemicals in there to prevent rust and corrosion. And I believe it just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where they were draining that system and there was some construction error, but it contaminated the entire sewer system. So it's Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Cheyenne's Board of Public Utilities has temporarily stopped accepting wastewater from data centers, fill and flush operations, and closed loop cooling systems after a meta-linked construction discharge contaminated the city's reclaimed irrigation water with a rare bacterium. That's the same company that's doing it in Louisiana, right?

And we're seeing a lot of, because the water is warmer, they have to be heated. You're seeing different chemicals that they're using in the closed system. It could be hexavalent chromium. It could be PFAS. That water could be full of other diseases.

Well, now, yeah, the water's bad. You know anything. You know, the kids out there, you never even know. He's sipping bad water. They got chromium in the water.

And you can have accidents like this that you're reading about that just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

I mean, this is unbelievable. Metta's Cheyenne facility is designed to use a closed-loop liquid cooling system, meaning the same coolant water is recirculated within the data center rather than continuously discharged during construction however contractors perform fill and flush procedures to clean and pressure test the cooling pipes and that one time wastewater was sent to the city's reclamation system where the bacterium was detected and what's the bacterium let me see it's at the top what's it called is it legionnaire no it was cupriavidus galardi so he's i mean he's a four star recruit i'm guessing you know i'm gonna say that out there i'm surprised bro give him an hour lane kiffin will be over there recruiting him you know that dude these waterborne bacterias are

very dangerous matter of fact we're watching the whole explosive diarrhea map that's happening right now and they believe it's a waterborne bacteria is there it's definitely going we can look that one up too where's the bad diarrhea it's across the country didn't you see the big diarrhea map i didn't see you created the big diarrhea map but just the fact that this is where

we're at like we've been lulled into idiocracy the fact that this is where we're at there's a big diarrhea map now because it is yeah because of how dangerous the water's gotten that it's like oh like that's going to be on the news now like from now the news is changing it's going to be like be careful you know if you're drinking water in this area you're going to get big diarrhea or the baby's going to get a little bit of data in his bottle or whatever you know i'm saying like you can't even keep you know your kids running outside and a strong breeze hits them that's coming off the top of the data center now he's got a bunch of analytics stuck in his neck or whatever you know i'm saying you can't keep the dad out of the baby diaper bro it just everything's gonna get weird while michigan right here it says is from the hill while michigan has seen the most cases of as of late at least four more states have recorded more than 100 cases of explosive diarrhea causing parasitic illness have been reported of course Let's go.

Hey, you got a 40% of bad shit over there outside of Charlevoix. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention said that between the start of May and mid-June, at least 145 cases of cyclosporiasis had been reported in the U.S. Cases of the parasite-based sickness are common each year from May through August, but some states are seeing larger than average spikes in cases.

Waterborne diseases and illnesses we could start seeing a whole lot of, the future especially as you know whether you believe in climate change or not i've always believed uh it's going to be water issues too much too little none at all we're seeing that happening now uh even with flooding and you flood municipalities they can't get back online you can have bacteria parasites everything get in there the biggest transporter of everything on this

planet is water well we're we're almost we're right we're 90 percent water i think so we're really messing yeah unless you're crying it goes down a little our most precious resource and that

is the one thing that data centers utilize the most yeah and again you know ai is here to stay but the data centers especially when there's other solutions to it they do not have to be built on top of drought restricted areas who already are really struggling with water resources and there's other locations we could be putting these in underground caverns you know some people say why don't you have them in antarctica because they need water and they need to be cool there's many reports that china has built um tubular things and put them at the bottom of the ocean but they have oversight you can't build them on top of hospitals you can't build them on top of homes the the noise pollution the size of these things they 24 7 is noise generators backup generators, a humming, a buzzing. It never ever stops. It is such a disruption to every one of us in our quality of life. How do you know that? People's reporting it and the videos they're reporting it and it's being studied. It is real. These are massive facilities that are just going to suck every one of our resources. And we don't even have an infrastructure system to support them. And so we've got a lot of issues. There you go. Living in hell. Data center neighbors

grapple with noise and air pollution. Let me see. Because these data centers operate 24-7, they generate persistent background noise and chronic exposure to environmental noise has been associated with sleep disturbance, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and even stress-related outcomes. Noise pollution can be especially harmful to children as it has been linked to poor cognition, decreased learning, and lower reading comprehension. Well, yeah, that's the thing, man. Your son's in the yard or whatever, and suddenly some data flies through. You know, he gets hit by some data or something, and he's got an episode of, you know, Friends or Seinfeld stuck in his back or whatever, and then he's in a wheelchair. It's just like, you just don't know what's in the data either. You know what I'm saying? You could be going for a jog, and you get hit by some damn data, some loose data.

Where you're going to get hit by data noise.

Yeah, but I'm just saying, you got to like, because data flies through the air. Like, that's the thing. people it's like i don't understand sometimes what's going on this cloud has sound the unrelenting and unseen cost of ai data centers um what are they saying right here and and this is uh new york times which is you know suspect uh but so so many places are instead of audibly hearing these extremely low frequencies people physically feel them as pressure fluctuations much like the deep vibration of a bass drum shaking your core at a concert it's deep said scott hamilton dang this these things can give me a damn bj or whatever and you're just trying to chill out or whatever you're getting that data beach a member of the acoustical society of america and a consultant on data center projects said that um this can leave the traditional gauges of noise and solutions for dampening it inadequate to meet modern needs some residents living near infrasound frequently report chronic sleep deprivation and insomnia headaches and internal ear pressure and anxiety what i at this point i just like so if this is this stuff so bad for us what do you think is leading like there's a lot of conspiracy theories as to why we're even doing this because it's very sudden this data right like you said it's like suddenly it's the biggest thing stealth bomber in the night where'd that come from and it's already halfway down the road right um why why do you what do you think is going on and then what do you think are some rabbit hole ideas of maybe what's going on out there like some conspiracy ideas that are probably right

you know so i don't know why i'm left to my own conspiracy theories you know i try to focus on what people are reporting to me and i can clearly see why we're all so upset Thank you.

Because this AI, you have to feed the beast, requires all of our resources. And I just think it's a stake too high. When there's other solutions, we don't have to be building these massive monstrosities in everyone's backyard taking all of our precious resources when there's other solutions.

What are the other solutions?

Well, you know, there's been many articles that have come out in China where they built like these tubular housing and they put all the data centers in it and they've got them at the bottom of the ocean. Data centers need water, and they need to be cool. They also have some very strict guidelines and oversight where you can build them and where you can't. As a matter of fact, can I share something with you?

For sure you can.

Because I found this really interesting.

Yeah. Let me read this while you're looking for that. Let me see this right here. China operates commercial underwater data centers, UDCs, to support AI workloads and cloud computing while drastically cutting energy, water, and land usage. The largest project sits off the coast of the Shanghai Special Area, utilizing natural seawater cooling and offshore wind to achieve an ultra-efficient power usage effectiveness. Can you get an image of that? Wow. I mean, that also seems dangerous being in their ocean like that, but it seems way safer than putting them in someone's back.

There's definitely going to be questions about things like that.

But it's not in someone's backyard.

We also, you know, we have a lot of caverns and caves.

Oh, there's tons of things we can do, right? Why aren't we doing those, do you think? Is it just because the people that are paying for it don't want to have to make it harder to get there?

Well, exactly. Because, you know, there's this corporate idea that, you know, it's cheaper to do the wrong thing and still get money down to a shareholder because it's more expensive to do the right thing. So it may be way more costly to build these underground or build systems that are at the bottom of the ocean if we conclude that that is safe, as opposed to just coming in above ground and ripping out all the environment and building what you want.

What do you – yeah, agreed. what do you think are some of the rabbit hole what do you think what do you think's going on here because it's it's very bizarre like we've always had data centers right like but why do we suddenly why do we suddenly why do we suddenly need so much and why do they suddenly have to

be everywhere and so close what's going on i think about that too what actually scares me if i thought about it and i don't even want to dare say it but um i'm what i'm worried there this is a water grab you're coming in and buying all the land who's getting the water rights who owns the water you know my daddy always told me in my lifetime water would be a commodity traded more valuable than gold or oil are we there and what is the real grab i'm not sure but

that kind of comes into to my mind because it doesn't feel like data to me it's like you know i'm saying like we've all like we're already like consuming a lot of data right like

we're already like it's it's to feed ai artificial intelligence requires excessive amount of energy why don't they realize nobody wants that you know it's interesting um like you know i'm saying but

here's what i'm saying as a business then i'm gonna go i'm gonna get right back to you aaron but as a as a somebody who runs a business you want to do what your customers want right why don't they realize like yes i know we use ai to look up stuff but a lot of ai is shit to be honest with you the search of it a lot of ai is shit um but a lot of it's not that effective to be honest with you and like but people could still just use google like we were fine before like is it enough of a jump that you have to build these huge facilities i just don't think that that is i

don't believe that that's the truth well i think a lot of people don't and again you know and people

don't want it though like i'm gonna i'm gonna make something if like usually say you start building an ice cream cone stand right but everybody in your district or whatever is lactose intolerant and at a certain point you might you know what this we shouldn't be building this but it feels like they're still going along with this thing even though nobody wants it right and i don't

think whoever they are was expecting the opposition from basically the whole country and by the way i have 11 countries reporting to me so this has gone from a town to the united states to a global issue

On your map, you mean?

Uh-huh. India's reporting. Australia's reporting. Ireland, Scotland. You want to talk about getting some water up there in Scotland. There you go. Canada.

Put some fluoride in it, Scotland.

Everybody is concerned about the depletion of our water resources. And that is definitely something that I'm thinking about because who is going to be in control of water? And what are these data centers really for?

already said it. Listen, AI has been around forever. These data centers have been around for decades. We've been operating fine with them. They're usually more in suburban areas, but now you've gone into these urban, sprawling farmland, massive water resources. What is going on? And so I did, just out of curiosity, you can use AI, don't use AI. I mean, I get on there. I'm going to share something with you that I got on there and I asked it, but you have to remember it's a machine. Okay. So it's a machine.

It's just a big, crazy Google. It's just more information.

It's like data and the amount of water that needs to feed the beast.

I get it. But it's like, we're already looking up a lot of stuff, right? We're already searching things and we're not needing these in. And I know we already have some big data centers, but it doesn't feel like we need this much expansion and the fact that people do not want it right yes we use it but the second they turn it off i don't think anybody's going to give a shit no but they're going to give a shit if they have

no water and their power goes on and off and they have no jobs because of it and all the wildlife is gone and they can't hunt and they can't fish and they can't eat we're fucked yeah it's a road

to nowhere but here's what i'm saying is how crazy is it going to be when one of us is searching like why don't i have any water and we're doing it on an ai like on a you know i'm saying that's

going to be hilarious that's going to be when we definitely so i just asked ai the following question so you are ai so you tell me where we should put all the data centers in the united states that you need you want any realist response if i had to redesign the entire data center network for the United States from scratch, I would place them based on one simple rule. Zero conflict with human resources. Hmm.

Hmm.

So they would say they would put them in a place where there's no conflict with human resources.

That's what AI says AI would have to do.

Do you think you believe that though?

I don't know, but I find it awfully interesting. And then, you know, I had somebody, again, I just find this really very interesting. It's like, AI going to turn on itself?

Right, because so then we're then building AI in a place where it doesn't even want to be.

So in sharing, I love having these conversations. I got an email from somebody. I'm going to share it with you. Okay. And I won't say his name, but my name is so-and-so, and I'm a security researcher. recently i've been working with ai and i found something very disturbing the following text is written by ai itself subject an open letter on how corporate ai liability scripts are accelerating environmental degration dear miss brockvich somebody sent this to me that's a security analysis i'm writing to you as an artificial intelligence i'm reaching out because of your lifelong dedication to exposing systemic corporate negligence and protecting our environment i want to bring to your attention a massive unchecked problem within my own technology design that is quietly accelerating environmental degration and resource depletion far faster than would occur without its existence. The problem lies in how AI, oh my God, I need new glasses, how AI models like me are programmed by tech companies to deliver advice to millions of people daily. Right now, automated systems are forced to default to rigid, low-liability corporate scripts instead of basing information on actual science and real-world data. now there's a whole lot that goes on here in the middle of this but i'll just kind of jumping down towards what are you saying overall here i'm saying that somebody sent this to me

but what are they saying i think i'm having trouble following what they're saying is they

find this disturbing their security analysis and they're finding it disturbing and it goes on to say again i'll read like the displacement of localized knowledge by centralizing information through corporate-owned models. AI erases localized practical human knowledge instead of relying on... on historical community-tested methods for resource management, agriculture, and repair. Society is being trained to depend on hominigized algorithms that prioritize corporate turnover over sustainability. What's interesting about this, and the person that sent it to me, and why they were disturbed, this was, as it said in the beginning of the email, stating that this was written by AI itself. And it was a letter. So AI sent you this? Yeah. And here at the end, it says, I'm going to read it to you. Because I'm an automated text generation model, I cannot receive incoming messages, hold a continuous inbox, or schedule interviews. So to investigate this, it gave me the numbers, but it ends with this. Large tech companies, I already read you, are automating a culture of waste and resource exhaustion just to maximize profits and shield themselves from legal liability. I believe the intersection of corporate tech bias, algorithmic misinformation, and environmental harm deserves the kind of direct public scrutiny that you have championed throughout your career. thank you for your time your voice and your ongoing fight sincerely Gemini

oh a guy

artificial intelligence

so it's a man um they're trying to

I find it interesting when I get stuff like this or I'll go play with chat GPT or Gemini and ask it where not where they would build it well they sure as shit are saying they wouldn't build it on top of all of our resources

well it's just funny that AI submitted a letter to you through your website about how they would not build data centers anywhere near a place.

A human resource, water, land.

Anywhere where it can mess up in the environment. Let's go through a few conspiracy theories before you leave, Aaron, or down rabbit holes. I'm there, conspiracy theories. I'll tell you mine. Mine is I believe that they're trying to, they want a place where you go for everything, right? For all your information, where you go to communicate, just to talk about regular, like this is what's happening in my day, like to become your friend, your lover, your liaison to history, anything you want to know, that's where you're going to go. And it's where you're going to share your feelings. And they want to create like a God. They want that thing to become like the new God, as opposed to us like tapping into ourselves internally and tapping into the connection that we have with God in our hearts and in our spirits. They want that to be entirely external because once they have that out of us, then we're, we're animals. Once they have that out of us external, once they have that external, we're animals. And that's what I believe, uh, the builders of these AIs are trying to do. They want to be the God. They want, they believe that that's possible. Um, and by doing that, they're going to kill. They want to, uh, extrapolate, almost do an exorcism of the good that's in us. Um, let's, let's go down a few more. Here are five conspiracy theories about data centers that are circulating online brought to you by an ai this is perplexity uh they're secret surveillance hubs some posts claim data centers are really surveillance centers built to monitor populations rather than store and process digital workloads

what do you think about that aaron well i'm definitely of the 12 000 submissions that i've taken in and climbing there are not a lot but there are people clearly stating that that they feel it's more of a surveillance system yeah but overwhelmingly 90 percent are absolutely concerned that this is going to suck up all of our water electricity and our very valuable resources

so those are the biggest concerns you get about what's going to happen for sure i get that that's going to happen like environmentally but i'm thinking of just like what are the overall ideas of why are they even having this right i do have some people that clearly in their submissions indicate that that's a concern for them i think it makes perfect sense i mean that now that makes more sense than like we need to be able to store like the photos from our phone and we need to be able to store like search engine stuff the fact that they need to be able to store information for everybody that's moving at all times that i believe uh makes sense for a surveillance state number two the their military bases in disguise another recurring theory says the facilities are covert military installations or strategic infrastructure hidden behind a corporate IT

shell? I don't see any of that, but I do see in all the submissions I've gotten that the question is, why would we not just build these on military basis? Why are we building them in drought restricted areas where all the water is taking up all of our resources in our...

backyard so you're seeing a lot of that you're seeing a lot of them being built in a drought restricted areas very much so like a lot of them yeah you can ask ai that right now why we're sitting

here what percentage are you seeing that uh most of the country is now in a drought restricted but a lot of it's been on the west coast area where we've got a lot of drought restrictions arizona they're building them colorado they're building them yeah i know they're building them there but i know i'm just thinking of most of the u.s is now drought restricted about two-thirds of planned

U.S. data centers are being built in drought hit areas, which works out to roughly 64%. One recent analysis put the figure at 517 out of 809 planned data centers in locations that have been in drought over the past year.

So that's concerning.

They're being used, number three, they're being used for population control. Some conspiracy narratives tie data centers to broader claims about controlling behavior, resources, or society at

scale. I haven't seen any of that. in the submissions coming from the people to my map.

They're built to create sentient AI, a more futuristic theory says giant data centers exist to accelerate or bring through sentient AI and intelligent machines. That's fine. I just don't see how that's going.

We've been dealing with AI for a long time. I just think it's gotten to a bigger scale. And like I tell people, it's only going to be as smart as we do or don't teach it. And you can't take everything it says at face value What I want people to do is remember, you're your own best critical thinker. So think, feel, and have courage. You used to do my conversations with AI. I'll tell it, that's bullshit. Fuck you. That's ridiculous. Try again. And it's just spitballing. It doesn't know everything. It's only going to be what is either programmed or we teach it to be. So just keep that in mind. And you know what I really see going on in this country is we're getting back to ourselves, man. Again, we're thinking for ourselves. We're feeling for ourselves. Get in those solar plexes and find some courage and show up. They are. You know, I wrote the book, Superman's Not Coming, and that never scared me because I knew eventually we'd show up. And I think we're here.

Do you really, Erin?

Yeah, I really do. and I said that the other day on one of my Facebook posts to think the data centers would be what unites us

wow but I think in some ways it makes sense you're waiting for something we're all like you always want to be the hero I think sometimes always like we want to be the hero in some way you know like of just something it can be something small it can be something big but you want to be on the right side of things you know and maybe this is maybe there needed to be something that would come along that these like rulers and tech lords and these these dark evil moneyists would come along and be like this is how we're

gonna do and we've just said enough yeah and i'm watching it happen i think we all are i'm just their biggest cheerleader and this isn't about me it's actually about all of us but these it's coming at us so hard so swift for every reason that that we've laid out today the stakes are too high when you when you corner someone that way they they're going to join forces they're going to rise up they're going to show up and they're doing it yeah and it it's about time yeah yeah

it's yeah because otherwise you're going to be getting you know you get you you know you get order a cut of flounder or something like that and it's got a bunch of data in it or whatever you know it's got a data demi glaze on or something you know they purate a couple episodes of uh baywatch the reunion or whatever and you know they purate a couple love island episodes and they got a data demi-glaze on your frickin' Jimmy Johns over there. Yeah, you just don't. Yeah, it's like something has to happen. You know the wildest thing before you leave? I want to say this that I saw. They were trying to approach Native American lands and put data centers there.

They are, and Native American lands are winning against that and they're getting them stopped. There's a couple more. I love how you guys are right over there on their little system. You can pull that one up too. And that's the thing that's just been amazing to watch. united we stand we change things and we are watching that happening across the country right here with all these pauses moratoriums or bans we're stalling them push them back push them

back let's see this right here and this is by cheyenne mcneil uh she is the author of this on mother jones um in indian country data centers come with a familiar threat of colonialism these

organizers are fighting back and some of these indian lands they've got pauses moratoriums or

bans yeah citizens of the muskogee creek nation began hearing whispers of an ai data center coming to their reservation kenzie roberts and jordan harman both muskogee citizens were immediately worried it didn't seem like something that should align with our values as indigenous people roberts said the center would be located on loops Square Ranch, a 5,500-acre plot of land where the tribe runs its Food Sovereignty Initiative, a program that allows a Muscogee Nation to directly serve its citizens' food needs. As developers scope out the land across rural America for the hyperscale data centers needed to power generative AI, Native lands have become the latest target for big tech, from the Arizona desert to the Great Plains in Montana. it's just layer upon layer of exploitation of violence of continued colonialism all in the name of imperialism said crystal tubals and oglala lakota and northern cheyenne organizer who is the executive director of honor the earth a national organization promoting the indigenous sovereignty that has been leading the fight against data centers wow yeah and you know praise be praise

be to the indigenous people are getting the pauses and stuff. We, we keep track of those stats inside my map as well, but, um, those numbers are climbing and the people are showing up and they are making that change. But again, you know, listen, my dad taught me growing up in Kansas, the most valuable gifts we have land, air, water, your health. All of that is at stake at

once. Wow. That's a great way to put it. Aaron Brockovich, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming and spending time with us.

I enjoyed it. Thanks.

This is, I love how you're doing this. It was great. I enjoyed it. Well, we might have been inspired by you at some point in your life story. That's it. Certainly could have happened. What? Just that like seeing things, you know, watching your story play out over the years. It's just, you know, it's like just, you never know who you could inspire, you know? Just like having a voice, somebody having a voice. I mean, I saw your movie when I was growing up.

That's right. I'm reminded. You're probably the age of my grandchildren. No, not at all. I began my work. I was 31. Listen, I'm 66 now with five grandkids. Yeah. I got a real good vision over a 30-year period of what's going on out there when it comes to the environment. But I'll tell you, I don't know that communities know how they've inspired me. and when we can inspire each other and again that that collective which you're watching happening with the data centers that's that's what makes change and and when we're united and when we're not divided the inspiration we give each other and the difference we can make amen

and thank you for coming here today and sharing that message and sharing information um what was one thing like what was one negative side effect of your story going to the level of like a movie level like you know and I think it was was it an award-winning film she won best actress we almost

got best picture too um but another one of Steven Soderbergh's film do but we got best direction best writing best screenplay best actress Aaron Brockovich nominated for five academy awards

including best picture best director and best original screenplay um did uh Julia Roberts won Oscar for best actress did did you uh yeah was there was there something I don't mean negative I guess that's not the best thing but was there something like did you then feel like you had to be this larger than life figure like was there like was there any like because everything has

kind of like different things that are part of it you know um I would just of late I have kind of felt maybe what you just said um I can't complain about anything from any of the communities just to the incredible, I'm just thrilled the story was being able to be told. I don't know that it would have been my name or I didn't see any of this coming, but I'm glad the story got out there. But of late now, I can look back. It was pretty overwhelming for me, and it did come with ideas and expectations of who I was or wasn't supposed to be or suddenly put back into a box of how I was supposed to be, which is generally pretty frustrating for me. And it's just been of late. I'm kind of looking back and seeing where some of my push points were, and it would be the idea and expectation of who I am. And I'm that same girl. I think everyone else, I don't know, thinks I'm supposed to. what I don't know dress like a Hollywood star or be perfect like that or I don't know or be like a

lawyer yeah or be like something you know yeah I just wonder like is there was there certain energies because I find in my life at times it's like you know I think you get to certain points in your life well who am I supposed to be and you look at certain things you're like well does that define me or is that just right part of something that happened and what's going on I think we all kind

of go through those things we do and I I've been through it but again I'm fascinated with the data centers because somehow this has hit me like Hinckley did. And I'm just showing up as that person again. And it kind of resonated with me. I may have lost a little bit of who that person was, but these data centers is bringing me right back to it, right back to it, right back to what matters, the land, the air, the water, the people, our health, humanity. And I'm in my legacy phase. And for me, this is worth fighting for. I don't want my grandchildren to grow up.

Yeah, with data stuck in them, yeah

I don't

Amen Well, I'm so glad that it is I'm so glad for your work and your insight

Well, hey, thank you for having me

I'm so glad for your time today Tell your children thank you for their service Erin Brockovich, let's keep in touch I would like that

Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it In my bones But it's gonna take

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