Muse

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I'm awake. Are you? I wonder how many miles I've fallen. It seems I'll get to the center of the Earth. Curious, isn't it? And really, nothing's quite impossible. Let's go now to our new episode of The Unfiltered Rise with me, Heidi Love.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Unfiltered Rise with me, Heidi Love. And today I have with me, in his own words, a recovering academic, Dr. Luke Johnson. And we are going to be going over the golden bow. How are you doing today?

I am doing fantastic. I'm really excited to work with you. I have caught your work through our mutual friends over at Sink Tank, and I was mightily impressed with what you're doing over there. And I'm a big fan of your Instagram, these little snippets from your show that you've been uploading. So it kind of sounds like we're doing a little bit of cyber stocking. I saw that you were on Sam Tripoli recently, which is kind of a big deal.

Yeah, that was kind of my aim when I first started this because it was years ago. And I thought, well, you know, he helped me a lot. Like when you wake up or whatever, like when you first do that, you know the mainstream people first. And he was very, very much my first introduction to a lot of things where I went, is anything real? Like, right? You go to that point first and then you rebuild, I think.

I don't know. I'm still there. I'm still there. As I confessed earlier, I think we're in a bit of a lucidory prison, or at least I am. But perhaps I'll change my mind by the end of this episode.

I think you'll love the sermons from the dead, the seven sermons from the dead, Dr. Young. Not that it will help. Maybe it will make it worse. But I don't know. He very much explains it to that way with the whole Abraxas thing. I dare say you'll love that conversation too as well. So yeah, I would look into it. It's an interesting one. And this one is really interesting as well. I never really heard of this before you brought it to my attention. So I was like, wow, this is going to fit really good with a lot of things.

Oh, you're talking about the golden bow?

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, do we want to give people a little bit of a heads up about what the golden bow is and why I'm interested in it?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. But I'm saying for me, it was an eye opener. Thank you for that.

It's very tedious. It's quite a labor of love to make this happen. I've been doing, I've ramped up how much I'm covering on my YouTube channel. I'm trying to do a chapter a week of it. I mean, which means I'm going to be doing this for at least another year because, and I'm just doing the abridged version. Now, this is a pretty seminal and foundational text of anthropology, comparative religion, and comparative mythology that Sir James G. Fracher put out at the end of the 19th century, beginning of 20th century. And it consisted in many expansive volumes. I believe at one point it had 22 volumes. The version that I'm covering for my channel is just the abridged version. And even that is quite demanding. It's close to 900 pages long, the version that I'm using to direct the study. And I'm not some sort of expert in it. You know, I've read it through. I've listened through one time. But now I'm really getting down to the nitty gritty. But I don't really stay within those guardrails, as Heidi is probably familiar with. I think she has sampled some of my work on my YouTube channel. I do this, I kind of weave in my own special schizophrenic interests. It's kind of a book project that I'm working on. It's amorphous. It changes. But essentially, I'm interested in analytical psychology and psychoanalysis when it comes to interpreting outer space, especially the Apollo missions. And no one's ever really done that. It screams. It definitely needs to be done. It's clearly, you know, whether or not you think they're real or not, it's not really something that I'm too interested in addressing. But they're clearly mythological. And, you know, they're named after figures of mythology. And the figures from mythology can be traced back to archetype.

And it does seem to be that there is a, an unfolding destiny that is working through history, working through the minds of men to, I guess what, what I'm contending is to activate some sort of transcendental narrative and bring it into our profane reality. That's kind of what I'm seeing now. You know, I think I'm, I'm very susceptible to the charge of, of reaching and cherry picking. And, you know, I, this is a type of methodology that's not really taught in academia, probably for good reason. But at the same time, I can't really deny what I'm seeing. I'm not going to go too much into that today, unless you want to have some rabbit trails and some digressions about that. What I had prepared to talk about was chapter 15 from the Golden Bough, which is about Oak and Jupiter worship in, in area, in Aryan culture. And by that, I mean, like, Greco Roman, and it's spread throughout Europe.

I want to ask you a question. Did you, did you pick that chapter just by happenstance? Cause I have something to unload on you. That's going to be pretty fun.

It was, it was just the next one. I really thought I was going to do like this large overview of the Golden Bough. And I was like, oh man, you know what? I've got another session on Sunday. Let's just do this chapter because it's only like three pages long and I can get it done by Thursday. And then when I realized we were meeting on Thursday and Thursday comes from Thor, which is, you know, the, the analog of Jupiter. I was like, oh, that's that it's destiny. This is fake. We have to do this.

It's more than that. So you're talking about, you know, men and archetypes leading. And I dare say this has been done before because I don't know if you know this, but Joseph Smith was born on December 23rd. You may or may not know that is obviously completely correlation with Jupiter. He also had a Jupiter talisman and he wore it. And it was one of the few possessions that were identified from his wife that, because she wanted it back. It was one of his most priceless possessions to him. He was pretty much obsessed with Jupiter in his life and his parchments for his family and all kinds of things scream this. And so when you brought that up, I was like, oh, that's fun.

Well, that's, that's the other reason I was like really attracted to your podcast is that I have, I have a deep fascination with, with Mormonism because I, I grew up, a lot of my friends growing up were Mormons. I, I, I, I live outside DC. And so, you know, I always, you know, all, there was always talk about the Mormon temple and I love my Mormon friends. They, I, you know, I was like a straight edge kid and we, we gathered together because we had similar values. Um, and I really always appreciated, uh, the robust family values that were part of the Mormon community. And, you know, I went to like Mormon dances and played basketball with the Mormon kids. And, um, I, I've, I've had some Mormon girlfriends. I, I actually, you know, someone I know, uh, someone I know even has like a bestseller book on leaving Mormonism right now. It's called the Motorhome prophecies. I don't know if you've heard of this. It's actually, it's actually, uh, it's actually, um, it's actually a great, great book. Um, I recommend it to people. You can listen to it on audible. It's called the Motorhome prophecies by Carrie Sheffield. Um, and it's about her breaking away from a, a radical Mormon sect, um, and what that process was like. And it was, it's pretty inspiring. It's a pretty inspiring story.

Um, so I get really heavy, right? Like, and this stuff is like, I always tell people, I just want to put this out there. The normal Mormon people are amazing. They don't know any of this crap that I talk about. Like all this stuff is deep rooted and deep into like, they basically abandoned it. Okay. This is the magical side of Mormonism that nobody wants to come out at all. Right. It's been replaced with corporations. Honestly. I mean, that's what it is, you know?

So when we look at that, I'm like, well, I mean, I don't like that they hide things. That's my main issue. So if they came out tomorrow and we're like, Hey, we're this cool Harry Potter group rock on, like stop lying to people. That's all, you know, you know, I've changed my mind on so many different things and I've been called so heretical. I think, I, I think I tentatively identify as a Gnostic Christian. I, I'm, I wouldn't, I'm not trying to convert anyone to that perspective.

It doesn't, I talk to tons of people. It doesn't bother me at all. Everybody has that.

Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've got, well, you know, I went through it during, I woke up in like 2016 and I became a very devout Christian. And I guess. say a literalist, a fundamentalist. I mean, it's hard not to when you wake up, right? Oh, I don't really know where you align right now. I think that- I believe in God. I believe in God

and the Bible. And then that's all. Like I've left all churches behind. I can't, I can't.

Well, I've had pastors call me the Antichrist. I've had people tell me that I'm divisive for telling them that the Bible is true. Like, it's crazy when you talk to Christians and say, hey, you know that Bible you were trying to get me to read for decades? I went and I read it and guess what? It's real. It's true. And they go, no, it's not. And I'm like, I am living in Reverso world. Like, I finally figured out the Bible is true. And all the Christians are telling me, not like that.

You're like, no, no, really? Yeah. No, I'm like you probably. I'm a little bit more very literal when I'm reading the Bible. I'm looking at everything though. And I'm seeing like the whole, I try to look at the whole picture, right? Not just the Bible too, which I get in trouble for. Trust me when I say my Christian listeners don't like when I say extra canonical books and whatnot. I don't know how you do it otherwise, right? Like you start finding out about all this stuff and you're like, what's happening? Yeah. I don't know. I'm just on my

journey and that's, you know, I'm exploring Gnosticism. It's certainly, I, you know, it's very taboo. I guess I'm a simulation theorist and, or some type, I'm still figuring out what kind and all Christians hate it, hate it when you say you're a simulation theorist. Cause then they think you're, you know, you're that this is like, oh, you think, you think you're in like a, like the devil's computer or something. Or like, I'm like, no, I'm like, why can't creation be a simulation? Like, why are we jumping to the conclusion that it's this type of simulation? Like, why can't we be in God's dream or something of that nature? I'm a realm girl. I'm definitely a realm girl.

Yeah. It's definitely a realm. Yeah. I've read Steiner. I don't disagree with some of his work

though. He's taboo as well. I'm working on it. I, I'm not, I'm not here to lead anybody to that perspective. I, for people who are looking for a spiritual alternative, I say, just, just, just read the Bible. And, but, you know, obviously I just can't leave it alone. And there's, I'm, you know, I'm profound, you know, I'm profoundly Mandela affected, which is very taboo

thing. Also, I am Mandela affected. I think we might be close to the same age. I don't know. I don't know if you're okay. So I'm older. I'm older than you. I'm, I'm 49. And so I have had so many Mandela effects that I cannot say it is untrue.

Well, there's that I, I have the amount of synchronicities I have is totally beguiling. This sounds, this is like totally crazy talk, but. Oh, well, there we are. I, I don't even know if I should, I'm leaving such a terrible.

Whatever you're comfortable.

Well, I mean, I have things where like my thoughts are mirrored back to me in newspaper headlines and like world events and like there, it's very possible that something we talk about right here could become, I, I, I don't, I don't have any control over it, but I'm going to tell you a story,

a little tiny one. So you feel more comfortable. So we went to Seattle and I heard this thing about the Smith building. Okay. Which I'm going to be doing a whole breakdown on, but when I heard it, I thought in my brain, like, first of all, I need to go there because, you know, Dr. John D had the obsidian mirror and they're talking about all these people, like having this whole obsidian area in this hotel. It doesn't make any sense. So I'm like, I got to go over there. This is like a magical building. Like I need to go there. And so my husband's like, cause we've already done all these tours and he's tired. And I was like, no, we have, we have to go there. So we go there and we can't find anybody. It's like completely desolate where we are, but we get in the elevator and in my brain, I didn't say this out loud in my brain. I said to myself, I wonder if they were trying to do this and this and this. And then we got out and got back in and there was a guy in there, but he's like running the elevator now, but he's really not running the elevator. Cause it's like a fake old elevator. He's just kind of there for show. Like he pulls the handle. And, and I thought to myself, just ask this guy. And I said, so what was this guy trying to bring his dad back from the dead? And he like totally stops. He's like, we're going to stop on this, this area. He gets out, shows me a bunch of stuff that no one else would have probably known. And I went to turn around to thank him and he is gone. And I was like, well, that was weird. And my husband's like, where'd that guy go? And I'm like, I don't know. But things like this happened to me a lot. Yeah. Like I, I,

I, this gets into question. This is why the Gnostic hypothesis intrigues me about there being different types of beings here. Like the psychics, the hylix, the, the pneumatics. It does seem like there's a class of beings here that is guiding some of.

us along towards spiritual ends and like i'm not even i hate to say i'm not i'm not trying to

articulate political philosophy it doesn't even have to be gnostic like it gets a bad that gets

a bad label you know there seems there seem to be people that are vessels um for for spiritual forces and you know they it's not just like online stuff that i've had these synchronizes i have

things like you're talking about where there's a guy and you're like wow where'd that come from

i'll tell one particular story that is gosh this is so schizo but i i was experiencing a schizo combo yeah we are yeah i was i was having this phenomenon where like for a couple weeks like everywhere i went like it felt like people were posing for cameras like posing for pictures and it it gave me like really creepy like movie set vibes and it started to really and i and i told my friend about it and i called them posing people and i was like well they were like just posing for pictures and stuff and then i went out i drove out to see her and on the way out to see her this group of motorcyclists that were in front of me stopped at a stoplight got off their motorcycles while the stoplight was red holding up traffic on the highway and took a group picture by the side of the road and i like i and i i was like what is going on like i'm looking around for like the truman show cameras and it's like that's an example of like say a real life conspiracy a real life synchronicity that seems to be where people have been orchestrated to at least induce the idea

that you're not in a real reality it's weird sometimes it can be so weird like when that happened with the elevator guy i legit was like just because he disappeared right he was a big guy he was like six seven or something like he was this giant yeah i think of the guy from uh twin peaks right i was like where did he go and even my husband was like i i guess he had to go and i was just like that was weird like and just i mean it's not the only thing right but i do think what you are saying like i've always believed regardless like christianity will tell us there are there are things like like jewish we entertain angels unaware right right right there's all these things but then there's bad there's the bad stories like dr john d's like talking to angels and then they weren't so angels and then it goes bad and so like i think it's all like a test in a way like okay what are you supposed to do with this right like well i don't know but uh yeah yeah i mean like i said i was

i uh i caught you on the sink tank stuff i think we i think i did sink tank um oh i might have lost you for a second i did sink tank a few weeks okay i did sink tank uh a few weeks before you and i was i did it pretty much to um take the opportunity to see what about the golden bow could what what that could tell us about john d and edward kelly and because i'd seen all these i'm like what's the difference between because that's a big part of the the opening chapters of the golden bow it's like about you know the difference between um homeopathic and contagious magic you know and i was like still trying to get my mind around it i'm like well what's the difference between this type of magic and stage magic and ceremonial magic and sex magic and and it it starts off like okay these are all very different things different categories don't get the confused confused but it seemed as i went deep into a study of um john d it seemed to me that there are elements of both contagious and imitative magic that made it into the the enochian magical rituals so that it was it's it's a little bit more blurry and great i had never heard anybody do that before in terms of applying fraser to this character of john d so i guess i should also say like the big reason i was interested in fraser um and i was talking about young so much but the reason i got into fraser is i via stanley kubrick because stanley kubrick uh had a friend named john calley who was a studio head both i believe at warner brothers and mgm and he kept he sent him the like 22 volumes so you gotta read you gotta read the golden bounty and the guy wrote the guy said back to kubrick he's like look i don't i gotta have studio to run i don't have time to read mythology 22 books yeah and then and then kubrick's like it's your life and it's like this very like poignant message like you you don't understand what you're caught up in and this text that was very popular at the beginning of the 20th century you know it was really influential uh on people like freud and young and wittgenstein and really it really had a very privileged place in american culture till about the 1960s i think and then it started to be

you

weeded out because it was viewed, I mean, there's some very, pretty valid criticisms of it, but I think the predominating reason why it was weeded out of a lot of course curriculum and, and, and, and the spiritual zeitgeist is that it, you know, Frazier being of the Victorian era really had no problem talking about primitive peoples and savage people and stuff like that. And it's, you know, it became very un-PC and maybe there's an argument to be made from that. And I think Vickenstein's posthumous work on it perhaps can, can speak to that, but it kind of is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like it's this thing. It's like, oh, well it's committed this, this, this, this, perhaps he's using things that we may understand to be slurs now, but like, does that mean he has nothing of value to offer?

It wasn't then like, this was so commonplace back then, you know? And so that's weird to me.

Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know, you know, I'm not, I'm just, I just want to know. Yeah, it's okay. But, you know, the reason why I brought Jung into the conversation is that Jung really developed a lot of his archetypal theory from reading the Frazier closely. So as I go deep into Jung, you very clearly, you know, he'll occasionally will reference Frazier. I just finished listening to the psychology of the unconscious and what else did I listen to recently, but it is, but psychology of the unconscious is, is interpenetrated with Frazier and references if you, if you're reading both. And I believe Jung probably got it from, from Freud because Freud wrote totem and taboo in response to, to it, which I've not read deeply. And I want, you know, I said this to you before we went on, I'm not some expert in this stuff. Like I have a PhD, which I guess means I'm like, like, yeah, I'm kind of smart. I, but, but I'm not, I've not, I don't have any like licensing

to teach any of this stuff. I've had, you wouldn't do it if you did, because you'd be afraid to lose

your license. Well, what I don't know. I mean, I'm not in academia anymore because I took myself out of it because there's just no, I don't view academia as an expansive place for learning anymore. Like I really, I think what we were talking about this a little bit beforehand, it's, it's kind of a containment mechanism for squirrely minded people like you and I, and you know,

I got my kid, my kid now where I'm at school every single week. And my son, you know, tells people what he really thinks and gets in trouble. I have. Yeah, no, no, I couldn't imagine. No, there's,

you know, I was like, I was always a, a, a spiritual and political outlier in academia, but you know, once like the deluge of information got out via the internet about pretty much everything, there's, you can't go back. I'm not going to imagine the genie back in the bottle or whatever the expression is, the tube. So there's no going back. And if you do go back and you don't talk about the most pressing issues of the day as a result of new, new revelations, to me, to me, you're just a propagandist, you know, you're like, and I, I didn't, the whole reason I became a philosopher was for the pursuit of truth. And as far as I'm concerned right now, and I,

it's not, it's not in the university. And, and no, no, I, it's sad. It's actually sad to me, you know, like, okay, I became a nurse. I have two degrees. All I do is chart. I don't help anybody. I wanted to help people. That's why I became a nurse. I wanted to do that, but that's not what I do. Yeah. So yeah, I'm like, yeah, it's, it's, I'm, I'm, it's depressing sort of like,

yeah, we have all this training. We have all this training and what are we supposed to do? Some people are like, thank God he's not there. He can't spread his psychosis. We're talking about

posing people. Hey, I got elevator people. I don't know. When I had the whole revelation of, you're never going to understand what you want to understand unless you read a cult books. And then I told my mom this and we're all Christian, you know, we're avid Christians. We're non-denominational, none of that, but like, we believe, you know, really. And when she heard that she was like, are you, do you need like help? Like, are you going to be okay? And I'm like, listen, I don't know why this keeps coming up, you know, but I guess what? It was right. I found out everything I needed to know when I started. Well, not every, it's a process, everything I need to know right then. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I, I, and just to finish up the thought, you know, I did my dissertation on Soren Kierkegaard, which was, you know, someone I, you know, is not really taught that.

much in philosophy departments to begin with, because he's like myself, he's a little bit unclassifiable. You know, a lot of people can't, he's like, wait, is he an existentialist? Is he a poet? Is he a theologian? And so he kind of defines a label, which is, you know, which was, is exactly what he would have wanted. And I, I decided to do my dissertation on him because he was one of the few philosophers I read who I was like, I think this guy actually believes what he says. Like, you know, as like the authenticity was there. I look back on like, I follow a few like Kierkegaard accounts on like Instagram and Twitter and stuff like that. I see some of the quotes and some of them still hit me really hard. Some of them seem a little cringe. I'm not going to lie, but that's growth. I'm older than Kierkegaard now. You know, he died when he was 42 years old. So, but that's a whole thing. I might be like, yeah, there's like, there's like no photographs

of Kierkegaard, which I find out. Oh, like Tesla, like there's photographs, but no movies. And I'm like, okay, whatever. Like I have a whole, my brain works like your brain. Yeah. There's like

two sketches of Kierkegaard and they're like unfinished. I'm like, wait, he was alive during daguro types. What's going on here? Any of what's happening? Yeah. And like, no one really knows how he died. Like he supposedly died. Yeah. He just like died. He like people like very poetically, like people like, Oh, Oh, he did. He, he died from like graphomania. Like he just wrote so much. He wrote himself to death. And I'm like, I'm like, is that a real thing? Yeah. You know, I just, I just, I know I just went out. I mean, I just went out of the simulation, but in the meantime,

you know, you read young when you get through the seven sermons of the dead, he's like, and then if you do make it out, there's another prison. So, Oh, great. Fantastic. But that's a practice for you. But, um, yeah, it gets interesting. Like, I mean, ultimately, like I do feel those of us that have the true belief, like as Christians, I honestly don't think we're just going to be screwed. Like I have to have that faith and be like, okay, look, you know, he's zapped up one. We know that for sure. Right. Yeah. Disappeared. So, I'm like, Oh, I don't know. I don't think he's leaving all of us behind, but also I feel like if you're doing everything you can, like, yeah, I don't know there. And, and there's so few people nowadays, like you said, like, here we are podcasting, but we're chatting and there, and people will get mad at me about this on my show, but this is what I want. Like nobody gets mad at Joe Rogan when they have dialogue. Right. But if, if I interrupt and they're like, but he needs to just do his slides and that's all. And then go. And I'm like, no, that doesn't teach you anything.

Yeah. You know, to be honest, I'm enjoying this conversation. So if we get to the slides,

I still want to do the slides because I wrote down information, but what I'm saying is we have to, as a people evolve, like I love teaching ones as well. And I do a solo series for that now, but like, Oh, I mean, I want to talk to the people. That's the whole point. Like for me.

Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I think, uh, I get that feedback a lot. I've gone on a bunch of other programs and it's like, do, do people really like my, my hyper fixations where I go really down the rabbit hole, they're really going to latch on and research everything I'm talking about. Probably not, but I've been, some of the feedback I get from people, it's just like, so I'll have people message me maybe even after I do this thing with you and they go, they're just going, thank you for, existing. And they like, I guess like being real being, yeah. Cause cause then they, they go, you make me feel less crazy. You know, the fact that there's someone like you out there makes me not feel so insane. And I'm like, okay. Okay. Yeah. No, I mean, it's cool. But I was like, don't you want to know about Oak worship in, uh, in, uh, in ancient Italy?

Well, and speaking of Oak worship, I brought some more little gems for you because you know, Oak and I don't know if you know this, but the sacred Grove is where Joseph Smith had his original, uh, whole thing. This is how the whole religion started was in a sacred Grove of trees. And actually they protect these trees and call them the witness trees. And they won't say what ones they are. They won't tell. Um, but I will tell you this. He was buried in an Oak, um, coffin that they dug up because they're weird. And when they dug it up, they took the blood stained and blood soaked wood. And it was Oak, like I said, and made them into coffin canes and then took his hair and put it in the knob and then gave them to the people that were, you know, important to him. And then they became their own cult. And this is so much fun. It's called the order of the black sticks. And they swore an oath of vengeance. And I'm not making this up at all.

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yeah i mean i existence is crazy existence is totally wild it totally explodes all our paradigms and i just think people need like something to anchor to get some sort of you know feel they can like operate in this world and it's i guess the reason why i'm a little bit i try i'm trying to be more graceful about this because i know there's all this like i've gone through these phases where you're just like oh is this evil and this and that it's like well i don't think it's necessarily the

evil aspect here's my thing is that happened before this guy wrote the golden bell so what i'm saying is is this all has been in existence far longer and oh yeah here's here's steiner and him talking about similar stuff and all these people talking about similar stuff and i'm not saying that everything that they say should be chucked out my biggest problem with the mormon church isn't that they had weirdo magic right it's the fact that they don't come clean about it so that the people that join their church know what they're getting into that's all um and so yeah yeah i think it's fine i always tell people if you want to be a practicing magician magic it up just don't lie to people like if if you're going to go in an order and you're going to swear a blood oath or whatever like you should be able to know what that means or have some semblance of an idea because a lot of us don't look it up i mean it is out there but then they they guilt you and they're like you can't do that like one of their themes was doubt your doubts don't doubt your faith and don't look these things up on the internet when the internet came up so it makes it bad because the up in my in my opinion the upper echelon knows very well all of all of the magical things and they use it but the middle people they don't know anything and they're just doing it and they're harnessing that energy from these people and that's not good

that's why i talk so sure sure i i i you know really my relativism is probably a a symptom of having been into golden valve for so long you look at like all these different uh religious practices and cults and different parts of the world and it's like it's pretty strange wherever you go you know yeah yeah for sure and the thing is is that you know i i think it raises a very interesting question about whether or not we could ever really liberate ourselves ourselves from these practices there's so many things that i've i've been like oh so that's where that comes from right like like just um like weddings right like why why do we throw rice at weddings why do we throw bouquets at weddings and you start to really think about it and you're like oh it's just like connected to like fertility rituals and tree worship and and because you're so steeped in it you think the things that you think are normal are actually like the residue of a religion that you don't even know that you're practicing so right right i've i and and once you start to see things this way like it's it's it real true work was right it really is your life like in marketing campaigns and things like that why why does jolly why does jolly green giant have a uh this giant this green giant like where is that coming from or you know what are beauty pageants is this connected to like the may king and queen and is that connected to the ritual which really animates all of the golden vow which is the the killing of the king ritual at at nemae diana's mirror where you know this priest king was supplanted in a match to the death is is our could something like miss america be connected to that

and it turns out it is it is yep and i think i think it's not just mormonism like i i always say i pick on them because i was one but it's it's everything like you said it's everything right it's all this stuff and of course they the people that are in the know they use it for what it is meant for the people that aren't don't really want to know because they just want to carry on traditions and be good people you know and so you've either got one or the other and then there's

There's those of us in the middle that are not doing one or the other and we're watching, right? We're dissecting things and it gets interesting, right?

Yeah. And I should be more on fire. I just, this is just the phase that I'm in right now.

You're good. And I can't wait to see your stuff where it links to space because I think that's really interesting. You know, I've got a few.

I don't go crazy with it today. I've got a few. And I, it's really kind of, I, I, it's really just the momentum is just kind of building like, and I'm just different puzzle pieces are falling into place every week. I have a, I have some stuff a little bit on space, but the main thing I'm, I'm really trying to understand in this, it seems like to me that. Yeah. And the, the, the Apollo mission seemed to, to have an element of this sacred marriage, I guess the hierogamous or whatever it is. And, and without going into too many details about it, which, I mean, just follow along on my YouTube channel. I'm just kind of piecing it together. I still don't know what I think about it. It seems to be recreating a perpetual solar myth that's connected all the way, all the way back to like Mithras and further. And I'm wondering if it's, there's this endless cycle of solar religion, solar mythology that just keeps spiraling or, or whatever analogy you want to use. Or if it's actually, when I, when I think about the Apollo missions, I'm starting to think that they really, really match quite well with the, with the revelation 12 story about the sun moon woman. I don't know how familiar you are with that. The, the, the woman who has the sun at her feet and is on the moon and the crown of 12 stars. And I haven't quite figured it all out, but it's, it seems to match really well. And I don't know where I'm going to go from there.

I think those mysteries are important, which is why I do bring up, like, I think a lot of people have a little piece of the puzzle, right? Like all, not just regular people, but like religions and they hide it. Like, you know, Brigham Young was quoted as saying, there are people that live on the sun. And then we've got Joseph Smith saying, there are Quakers that are six feet tall that live on the moon. Well, when I didn't know anything about any of this stuff, right? Like woo woo other stuff. Like, I just thought they were crazy, right? Like, I'm like, did you hear that stupid crap? They were saying until you start like digging, right? And then you're like, oh, wait, maybe what? Maybe they're talking about something else, right? Like, yeah. Like I, I truly believe they're a mystery school. I think they know some things. Yeah.

I'm not denying that. I think I am most intrigued with the idea. I think there might be something to their idea about America being a place where like biblical events happened. Oh, yeah. I think that, I think if there was anything about the religion that appeals to me, I think that idea. But for me, the Mormon religion is not really something I'm going to go further with because of cosmological. My concerns are cosmological.

Yes.

So I believe in biblical cosmology. I think those who know what that means know what that means. And that is, that's, that's my interpretation of the world. And that does not square with Mormon theology as I understand it.

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't believe in the planets. No, no, you're good. And, and it's, it's just always an interesting chat. I always like to get people's thoughts on it. Whoever I have on, like I've literally had ex-Satanists on here. So they don't have to agree with anything I say. I love just talking. Yeah, I did. And so like, I don't care. I mean, you have to have an open enough mind where you're like, here is the information. And this is what I believe in. Nothing you say or nothing I say is going to alter that, but we can still like talk. That's what philosophers used to do, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, until, until you corrupt the youth and you're forced to drink the hemlock. Well, there's that. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's the thing. Like I, I want, like I try, I like flying underneath the radar. I like, you know, I want, you know, people are like, oh, you could be so much bigger if you did this and this and this. I'm like, I don't know if I want to be. Cause like, I want like, like, like your audience, I think would be interested in what I'm doing. And I want those opportunities to connect to like-minded people. But, you know, I, I, it doesn't have to relate.

It doesn't. Well, I guess. I guess what I'm trying to, it's like, if I were to like, say, go back to like some of my old colleagues and old professors and they, and I really avoid it. Cause it's just like, what's the point? Like, I always wonder, I'm like, well, what's next? You got to make me drink some Hemlock. Like, cause I, I mean, the way I understand, like the way I'm, the picture I'm painting.

You heretic, you.

Yeah. I'm pretty much everybody thinks I'm a heretic. So, you know, it's like, if, if the, if the Athenian, if, if the, if the, uh, citizens of, of Greece could not get their mind around Socrates being like, Hey, you live in a myth and none of this is real. Um, how's that going to go in 2025? I'm like, Hey, you live in a myth and none of this is real. Like, you know, I mean that really my only defense would be is, is the Hemlock remark. Are you going to make me drink the Hemlock? No, like, and they go, no, no, that was the worst thing that ever happened to philosophy. I'm like, well, how are you any different from? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. It can,

it can definitely be seen as negative. And I think a lot of people are very used to not being able to have a real conversation without like, Oh, we're going here. I don't want to go there. Cause what if she doesn't think like I think, and then it's going to ruin everything. Right. Like people are too, uh, biased or something to just be able to have those conversations and, and have fun with it. Like, I don't know. I always learn stuff from people. It's not going to change what I think I'm my own self. Like, and it's not going to change what you think you're,

you're, Oh yeah, I don't know. There's a lot that I don't know. So right.

But it's a chronic fashion. Yeah. I like it. I don't know. I think it's fun for sure. And I only wrote these things down just because it seems so very interesting with some of the stuff that I've learned lately. Right. Like, like you said, are these just repeating things? And that's my point of the Mormonism is, is, was that something that happened then for the same reason that is going to lead into some stuff you're going to bring up now? So it seems like to me, the way that I

understand it, and this is the Jungian interpretation is that it's, that it's kind of impossible to extricate ourselves from myth. And what seems to be happening is that you can, you can extricate yourself from a particular mythology or religious paradigm or whatever else, trim it back and think that you're all secular and this and that. But as the point I'm trying to make, I think in my study of cosmologies, is, is it's going to come back in a different form and you won't even recognize it. And it's going to weave itself around you and you won't even know you're in it again. And there's something about the psyche that is causing us to be overcome by a particular mythological worldview over and over again. You can convert and you can do that, but it's going to creep back in. It's like this, it's like this invasive plant species. Maybe I shouldn't say invasive because it's endemic, right? The real invasive thing is like the new thing, the conceptual thing that you create and think that it's not going to be affected by the environs, the psychic environment that you're in, but it seems to be, it's always going to be

overcome. Yeah. It does seem to reoccur. Yeah. Again and again and again.

And what that means metaphysically, I'm still sorting that through, you know, there's a lot on Jung and mythology and Gnosticism that I'm trying to get my mind around. I, you know, I've not read all the Jung yet. You know, I've, I was telling Heidi, I can't remember if you were recording, like, I think you were, um, you know, I got into this particular angle because I, something I see in the truth movement is like, people just get really hung up on their thing. They get like hung up on like numerology or symbolism. And I'm like, I've been at, you know, I've been awake for like nine years now. And I'm like, that's cool. But what does it mean? Like, great. You like, I'm glad you can see all the number games. I'm glad you can, you know, you, I'm glad, you know, what one eye symbolism is. I can only take so many more like truth or edits on freaking Instagram. Like what is, what, where are we going with this knowledge? Like we have to have like a strong theoretical foundation. That's what's motivating all this. My particular thing was I got really obsessed with, with Kubrick and seeing the interconnected nature of all the films and then seeing that symbolism spill out off the silver screen into real life. And I'm like, okay, great. Like, what am I talking about here? Am I trying to say like Kubrick's like some kind of God, like time traveler? That's, this is ridiculous. So I need, I need something else. Like I need a bigger theory. And that's, that's where, that's where I am with Jung and Frazier. And I think, you know, I think, I think Freud is an element of that. I think someone I haven't mentioned here, Eliad is, is, is someone who's going to figure into this, this conversation. And Joseph Campbell is someone who's going to figure into this conversation. So maybe as I go along with this book. book project, I'll have a particular gloss from one of those thinkers. It seems like it's going to be young first or Frasier first, and then just add those layers together. And then maybe by the time I die, I can say, here's the integrative perspective. And yeah, I've got a door.

Yeah. As long as we answer it for ourselves, that's the main, right? Like that's the main point. I mean, cause it may sound crazy to somebody else if they don't, if their mind doesn't think like that, I get it. Like some people don't spiral like that, but some of us do. So, so you got some things to share with me today. Good job.

Okay, cool. Cool. And there you are. They were working. Awesome. Yeah. So, um, I'm already, I have a note to make my, I like your picture. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, like I've talked about, all right, we're going to be looking at the, uh, the different manifestations of Jupiter and Zeus worship in, in Aryan culture. And there's not, there's not so subtle reference here from the title slide where I'm like, Hey, you know what? There's like all these clues leading back to Trump being some sort of Jupiterian archetype. And I'm going to save that for the end. I mean, perhaps people have like latched onto that, but it's, it's pretty crazy. Like I, I sat there and I tried to add it all up and it's really out of control. Have you ever heard anyone say that before? Or I'm like in a vacuum. I don't know. Have you ever heard anybody like, Oh, Trump is Jupiter or Trump is like the avatar of Jupiter.

Not that just the antichrist. I've definitely talked to somebody that thinks he's definitely the

antichrist. I I've heard, I've, I've heard, I've heard it's Obama. I've heard it's Elon Musk. I've, I I've heard it's me. So I don't know. There you go. All right. So yeah, we're going to be looking at chapter 15 from the golden bow, which is the worship of the Oak. And down here in the right-hand corner, that is Sir James Frazier. And of course we have Zeus, a bust of Zeus above him. So let's, let's start with slide 235. Do you see these, these, these, these etchings or these illustrations here? So I, I, I read and then I, then I, I, I kind of just free, free wheel. That's perfect. That's okay. So, all right. Across all Aryan peoples, in Europe, the Oak was a sacred symbol of divine power revered as the embodiment of chief gods like Zeus for Greek and Jupiter for Italians who ruled over sky rain thunder with the ancient Dodona sanctuary in Greece centered on an oracular Oak where Zeus's voice was believed to speak through rustling leaves and thunderous storms. The frequent thunderstorms at Dodona enhanced by bronze gongs mimicking thunder in the mountain ring to valley and rituals like the sacred marriage of Zeus and Hera and Boeotia highlighted the Oak's role as a divine conduit. While on Mount Lysaes, priests dipped oak branches and springs to invoke rain, reinforcing Zeus's rain-making authority. Athenian devotion was evident in an Acropolis statue of earth praying to Zeus and communal drought prayers for rain on their corn lands, tying the Oak sanctity to agricultural prosperity and divine favor across Greek culture. So if we look at these slides here, or this, uh, these illustrations on the slide, um, just to kind of put some of these concepts that I just read to you in practice, we, these are, um, Leonard Gottlier's 1615 and 1675 engravings depicting the Dodona sanctuary, uh, with the sacred Oak. So we see, uh, we see denizens encircling the Oak. Um, and one of the things I wanted to point out here, when I was, I was drilling down this, you see these little hoops in the trees and you can see it on the right as well. We'll get back to this triad or this tree spirit that's in the, over there, but these, I believe these are like the gogs. So what they would do, you know, when the, when the winds and thunder and things like that would kick up, they, it would create all this noise. And they had these priestesses who would interpret the rustling of the leaves and these gongs or whatever as the will of Zeus and what, what they should do. Um, and it also kind of mimicked thunder,

like the mimicry of Zeus is a big deal. And on the right here, we have, uh, I, what I'm assuming with Zeus having his arm around his child, which is Apollo, which is important for the cosmological stuff that I've talked about and some of his other symbols, like the golden Eagle, um, which is very relevant to Apollo 11, but, um, Yeah. And in this figure here on the right, we see a triad. These are kind of interpreted as this spirit, this conduit through which Zeus could speak, kind of like an intermediary. And this goes back to what you were saying about the trees as witnesses for Joseph Smith that's very much in play. And whether or not Joseph Smith is aware of these things or these things just happen over and over again, like we're talking about, it just keeps repeating whether or not people are conscious of it or not. One thing that was so fascinating to me, and I've known this for quite some time, is how did people who worship Jupiter or Zeus even begin to worship trees or interact with trees in a worshipful manner? And this kind of comes, it's scientifically established that oaks attract more lightning than really any other tree. I mean, there's probably, it might be in second or third place. I'm not exactly sure. I'm not some sort of biologist who has all this. But it's uncanny how much this happens. So in time they came to say, oh no, look, Zeus and his thunderbolts as a storm god, he's clearly communicating through these trees. He keeps striking them down. And, you know, there is some sort of scientific explanation for this, their height, their canopy, their deep root system as it connects to water that may cause the lightning to both attract it and spread out. Once it strikes it, it's just, it's super fascinating. And at the Donut, at this worship center, they had these priestesses or these three priestesses that they called the doves and their names were Promenia, Temerate, and Nacondra. And they were like, you've heard of the Delphic Oracle. These were like the oracles, except for Jupiter rather than Apollo. And they wouldn't do all the interpretation of the gongs and the rustling of the leaves. So yeah, I just, I thought, yeah, I thought that was pretty fascinating.

And, and the tree limbs stay, right? They turn golden afterward or something. I think I remember you saying, like if they cut it down.

Yeah. So this connects, this, this connects, this is like, cause I'm, I think we really have to ask ourselves, like, why is Fraser making such a big deal about tree associating the, the interpretation of Jupiter's will through these particular oak trees? I think it's going to tie back. I, I, I, I read ahead a little bit because in the story of the King of the Wood, the challenger to the King of the Wood had to take an oak branch. And this was like a signal that he was going to try to depose that King. I think the idea here that Fraser is eventually going to make, although I I've yet to develop this is that the King of the Wood in at Nima was somehow a personification of Jupiter. What was this, was this Jupiterian figure? And he was married to Diana in some way. So I think that's why there's this big devotion to understanding Jupiter worship in chapter 15. Hmm. It's going to set the stage for that. Yeah. It's like, why is this relevant? You kind of just have to go along for the ride. It'll start to in time. It'll start to pop out as why it's relevant. So, okay. So if we can go to slide two 36 and we're going to talk about Zeus worship in another place. So in Boeotia's Deidala festival, which is a religious federation of states celebrated the sacred marriage of Zeus and Herod. The oak God and goddess by crafting oak effigies dressed as the divine couple and parading them in a grand procession. As noted in Fraser's chapter 15, the effigies were burned in a sacrificial ritual to symbolize their union, ensuring fertility and communal harmony. This oak centric ritual tied to Zeus's role as thunder and rain God reinforces Fraser's theme of the oak sanctity and area in worship. So I did a little bit of a deeper dive into this. I was like, how is this worship of Zeus? Where did this even come from? Getting these oak idols and burning them. It actually comes from a mythological story where I don't know the exact reason, but Zeus really pissed off Hera and she fled to Euboeia. And I guess the way that he won her back is like tricking. He made like an oak figurine pretending it was this river nymph and had like a fake marriage to it. And Hera found out and she forgave him. Like that's the story of this procession of these oak figurines. And okay, it's like, okay, I guess that makes sense, but why do they burn them? Why would you burn these? these statuettes of Zeus and Herod. I think we think of when people burn a flag or something

like that, that this is disrespectful to America or something like that. And I think to challenge it, I think we have to think about it a little bit differently. There's this idea of rebirth and renewal and the releasing of energies that form this sympathetic relationship with the land and actually act as a boon to both personal fertility and to the growth of crops in the region. So fire is seen as this purifying and releasing ritual of psychic energy. So that's kind of where- Forged by the fire. Yeah, exactly. So it has a bit of a different take in this Frasierian context. Okay. Yeah. So now we'll get to a little outer space stuff. Ooh. Okay. So if, ironically, I have this as slide 237. So for those of you that are watching this, so what I have here, I've tried to find all these mythological elements in the Apollo missions, and this one escaped my attention. I just, and maybe it's a reach. And I think you really have to look at all the evidence in totality. But something that escaped my knowledge is that they launched Apollo 12 at night during a storm, which seems totally insane to me. And within the first minute of takeoff, it was struck by lightning twice. I think this is the first lightning strike. So like, that's like, I don't, I don't understand, I don't understand it. Like they had like deadlines or whatever they had to make, but like at 36 seconds and like 52.3 seconds or something like that, it got struck by lightning twice, but was okay. Perhaps foreshadowing the disaster of Apollo 13, which I guess had a happy ending. But I was thinking about it in terms of like all this Jupiterian stuff. There is like this mythological narrative. And I'm not saying men are doing this. It seems archetypal. It seems like it's coming from a higher reality and intruding into our profane one as, as Elliot would say. Not necessarily this, this particular point, but the way he talks about the sacred and the profane. It, it, so these, these rockets that were used during the Apollo mission, these are the Saturn rockets, right? The Saturn Apollo rockets, I believe 501 or something like that. That's a whole thing I've got into. And I've, I've talked about how there's, there's an element of the battle of the Titans with these rockets in terms of the Saturn rockets, um, are then cast away. And there's elements of Jupiter and Apollo, Jupiter's son that are, that are successful. And so like in a way the Saturn rockets cast down to earth, not unlike how Satan is cast down to earth, uh, in revelation 12, right? Which seems to be a recycling of the battle

of the Titans myth. I don't know if you know the battle of the Titans myth, but it's like between Kronos and Zeus, like Kronos gets this prophecy that a son will depose him and it creates this division and ultimately, uh, Kronos is, or Zeus is victorious, but thinking about that, and perhaps this is schizophrenic, you kind of say, here's a representation of Zeus's power. And as it's like kind of attacking something that is associated with Kronos or Saturn. And I thought that was super interesting. Um, just throwing too bad. It didn't eat it. Right. Like, like he did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's an issue. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I don't know how far back to go. Cause you know, like the other missions that predate the Apollo mission are also mythologically named, you know, they're, they're Mercury and Gemini and, and I'm still kind of, I'm just figuring out like how it all fits together, but like Mercury from a young human perspective, we're curious as seen as like a trickster figure who like initiates this process of the integration of opposites, right. Which is a kind of is my developing take on what the moon landings are is that they, it brought cosmically and psychologically, it seems to have brought the conscious, the solar consciousness in an integrated fashion into the receptive unconsciousness of the great mother archetype, which is the moon, in my opinion, because the moon has this dark side, which is also the devouring mother. It's a whole thing. It's in perhaps I'm doing union analysis, totally wrong. And I'm, I'm open to criticism, but now I think, I think it's interesting also then the second mission is the Gemini mission, which could potentially serve to put these opposites intention. And then we see the Apollo mission is probably the integration of them all in order to give birth to a new transcendental perspective. And, you know, whatever that was that led to the boon in technology. or a widening perspective of humanity. Some would argue perhaps this sets the stage for the Antichrist. I don't know. But it seems like there are Jungian symbols and mechanics that are available to us to understand this. But it's a theory I'm working on. It's not fully developed. And I just talk about it because, you know, I want to get feedback and see if anybody else is seeing what I'm seeing. This piece of evidence, the lightning striking the Saturn rocket by itself, it's not that strong. Admittedly, it's not strong evidence. But it is interesting to me.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Great picture, too.

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. And after that, you know, after the Apollo 12 incident happened, they had a bunch of stuff happen on Apollo 12. Like the Alan Bean, like I think that was Alan Bean. He pointed the camera at the sun and there was no live broadcast for Apollo 12 because it burnt out the camera. And it really does kind of set up for all the eerie stuff that happened with Apollo 13. Like part of me wonders if that's, these were kind of like foreshadowing events.

Yeah, it makes sense.

It makes sense and it doesn't. It's like, oh, do you think people were doing this? No, I don't think people were doing it.

Right, right. It's just a repeat. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying. Yeah, for sure.

It's an example of later on, you know, these lightning strikes didn't go away. But they did time it a little bit better. Apollo 15, which I believe this is the one launched on Kubrick's birthday, July 26. You see it in the background here. So Zeus, revered as the thunder and lightning god, was worshipped as Thunderbolt at Olympia and through a sacrificial hearth in Athens where priests watched for lightning over Mount Parnes. Greeks consecrated lightning struck spots to Zeus, the descender. And that was a, and they built altars and did sacrifices to places where these lightning strikes happen. And I was like, wow. So we have lightning strikes on the launch pad. Like, that's interesting to me, which raises the question, though, I don't think it's tight whether, you know, if launch pads are in a way kind of like hollowed ground, you know. And this practice, evident in Athenian scriptures, ties Zeus's lightning to a sacred oak. So if we go to 239, you know, some of these launch pads are still revered. Like you can see that they do memorial celebrations. This is the launch pad where the Apollo 1 disaster happened, where three souls, Gus Virgil Grissom, Ed White, and I believe, is it Chafee? I forget, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the Apollo 1 fire, but they sacrificed themselves for the sake of the Apollo missions. You know, it was a very tragic event. And they still commemorate this today. And they're, so it is kind of interesting. It makes me wonder about this idea of Zeus ascending to certain spots. Like we kind of still do this. This is the, this is the, supposedly, this was the, the temple to Jupiter Optimus Maximus on Rome's Capilene Hill. And they, apparently it was built there because they had lightning strikes there and sacrifices were done there.

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It makes you question, too, about some cosmologies. Zeus is related to Typhon, and Typhonian is always chaos, right? We get into chaos stuff with that. And so it makes you wonder if that's what's also happening, right? Like in the universe, whatever.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It depends on the perspective. Like, it may look like chaos, but it may be actually establishing order. And this gets into, like, Trump, perhaps, as a Jupiterian archetype. We'll get into that. We'll get into that.

Okay. But do I mean, I've been talking here for a while. Do you want to interject? Tell me something about Typhon. I don't know anything about Typhon.

Oh, no. I just know when I was looking up all the different things that they just said, you know how sometimes they are a hundred other people. One of the correlations was Typhon with Zeus. And I found that interesting because, you know, chaos. I mean, Typhonian, when anybody ever says like Typhonian magic or whatever, that's all Krollian and that's very chaos magic. That's a lot of chaos, which I'm not talking about this being magic. I'm just talking about the idea of chaos, right? And to your point, sometimes, you know, we all know that saying, right? Like out of the chaos comes the order.

Yeah. Order out of chaos.

Yep.

I guess Typhon is where we get the name Typhoon, I take it, right?

I don't know.

I assume. I mean, is Typhon a storm god? I mean, that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing. Well, look at this. I mean, where do we get the words thunder and lightning? Yeah. I think that it comes, I think it comes from Thor or something like that. So. Makes total sense. Yeah. Yeah. So ancient Greek kings claiming descent from Zeus and sometimes bearing his name likely mimic the thunder and rain making powers to benefit or intimidate people. As Fraser suggests here, the legend of Salmon, Salmonaes reflects these petty rulers in Greece's oak rich highlands acting as Zeus to ensure land and livestock facility, fertility. This mirrors Irish and Italian kings personifying Zeus or Jupiter. So Salmonaes was this Thessalian king and he dared to even say that he was greater than Jupiter. And he had these, he would, there's all sorts of speculation about how he did this, you know, talk about dragging brawn vessels or whatnot to create, to mimic thunder and using technology or throwing torches to simulate lightning. And supposedly Zeus struck him down with a lightning bolt for hubris and his whole palace or whatever was cast into the ocean. But it got me thinking about, you know, the idea that you would imitate Zeus or try to supplant Zeus with technology. It kind of got me thinking about the rocket launches because they are, they do seem to exhibit, you know, they're very thunderous, right? And they're bringing this fire down from heaven. And it's in some ways it seems very Jupiterian. And it, and if that's the case, it's like, we're repeating this, this process that happened with these, with these Latin kings. And I find that to be pretty eerie and pretty interesting. So that's something I wanted to just comment on there. And this, this, this doomed king, Salmonius, I have, there's very, very little depiction of him, but here he is in the vase there.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. And something I was curious about before I even got on here, one of the questions I had was like, okay, if like the oak is a sacred tree to Jupiter, like, I mean, did the, did, do all these people that worship Jupiter? Are they, are they, they're not allowed to like cut down an oak tree? But of course they were, I think it was just like in the sacred groves and things like that. They could not do it. But outside of that, for whatever functional purpose, as long as they offered enough prayers and sacrifices to Zeus, to Jupiter, to Thor, whoever, it was like, okay. I had to use that for utilitarian purpose, which I thought was interesting. And I think this is.

I know in the, in the Mormon sacred grove, they do not let anybody touch the trees. Even if it falls down, like they are not allowed to clear it. I don't know. Yeah. I looked at it. I didn't know. It just said that, that they were not, they were doing like the normal forestry and the forest could do its own forest thing. That was it. Like, yeah, I thought it was wild because people were offering to buy the dead wood, like after it fell. Yeah. And no, they said, absolutely not. So. Yeah.

Wild. It makes you wonder. I mean, maybe someone at the top is like, oh yeah, we, we descend from these, uh, Jupiterian cults and we've got to keep it going this way. And you're going to do X, Y. Maybe there is some cabal somewhere. Who's like just really indebted to Jupiter religion. They're getting back at all the Christians for converting everybody. So they're operating in the shadows and doing this. Maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just found it fascinating because I thought, oh, you'd think you'd use that. Cause what if it was one of those. witness trees and you didn't know or something. And you would think you would make like furniture. I don't know. In my brain, I would make something out of it. Right. And put it in the temple or

something. I don't know. Yeah. So do they believe in like tree spirits in Mormonism?

So they say they don't, but then we've got all these allegories on trees and I wrote a whole bunch of them down. And, and not only, you know, the mother Smith, which was Joseph Smith's mom had dreams about trees and then her dad did. And then his dad did. And then he goes in a sacred grove. And then like, there's all these pictures with these witness trees and like the important people in the church, like standing by these trees and they won't say which trees they are. They just have these photos, but they won't say like, it's an Oak tree or a maple, whatever, whatever, like they won't do it because they're afraid, you know, and I get that part that somebody would mess with them. Um, but yeah, they, they've got like photos of them. They've like dated them, but they've also tried to restore a lot there. Um, because obviously it was a farm. Like you're saying back then the Smith had to probably use the trees. I mean, they had a log cabin and stuff. So I did try to find out what kind that was and it didn't let me in on that. It said it wouldn't say, but, um, now there's like maple and Oak and birch and all these different ones. But, um, I guess it produces a lot of maple syrup out there. I found that, I found that very interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the thing is too, and, and Frazier, so as Frazier kept going with the golden bow, you know, he's, he was not a Christian or I don't, I can't, I don't know his biography intimately, but he was very skeptical. This sort of study, uh, made him very skeptical of Christianity. And he could clearly see that there were a lot of elements of pagan worship that were in the Bible. Um, and you know, it's, if you, if you go through the Bible, there's like some weird stuff going on with trees, not to mention like the crisis hung on a tree, right? Like clearly we have these, you know, we have a garden scenario with trees of knowledge and trees of life. And I, I, I, there's some weird places where it seems like the trees are animated in some places. I don't have my, uh, chapter and verse available to me, but I, I think you probably have read the whole Bible. You probably know that read it a certain place. I don't know if it's Ezekiel or something like that. There's, there's like weird animated tree stuff. Like I always tell people you need to read the Bible. It is so crazy. There is, you could make, if anyone has not read the Bible and is listening to this, and maybe you would disagree, like you could make a movie about every single, every single book of the Bible, but like every couple of chapters you could make, or even a single chapter, you could make a movie based on every single chapter of the Bible. Oh yeah. I mean, it's got like everything in it.

Yeah. It's totally wild. And then the hidden stuff on top of it, when you like read it again, right? Like when you know stuff and then you're like, Oh, I wonder if this means this, like what? And then, and, and it just is so crazy. Cause you can read it a couple of different times and it's different, at least for me every time. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, there's even, there's,

there's stuff about, you know, there's a lot of this, like, I keep saying pagan mythology. I don't quite know how to say it, but you know, there's, you know, Apollo and Artemis and Jupiter like are in the Bible. Like they're in there and, and sometimes directly named Artemis is, is directly named Apollo. It's called Apollyon. I think Jupiter is directly named. I'd have to, I'd have to fact check myself on that, but you know, they're all in there and it's wild. It's pretty wild. So, you know, Frazier goes on and he, he, he has a book called folklore of the old Testament that I've, I've read a few excerpts from. And I think what I'll just, you know, talking to you, it's like, when I get done like in a year or so with this, I'll probably have to go back and read the Bible for like the fourth time. Cause I'm like, how's it going to, how's it going to hit different

after doing this study? Yes. It's, it's different. I think every time you learn something different than you have new eyes, right? Not that the Bible changes, just that you evolve and you get older

and you know more stuff and yeah, I don't know. Deeper into the layers. It's, it really rewards and it, and see, this is where like, I'm like, Oh my, like, it's hard for me to like rail against secret societies because like the deeper, the more I know, like, it's like, I'm just like initiating

myself into the mysteries. Right. Right. You know, it's like, like I'm becoming like this

mystical, honest Christian. I've maybe not. I don't know.

they know like i think that they just had to hide so much like the stuff i tell you i mean they had to hide it because you know joseph smith came from irish roots which makes complete sense if you get into celtic stuff like and and it does but they just don't want to go there because it's woo woo you know i know that just yeah that's gonna be huge we're gonna talk

about yeah the celts and stuff like that that they're huge on the tree worship like the druids right like these are the men of the oak yeah yeah that's funny that's funny um okay let's let's let's talk about the uh the druids so this is cool so um yeah uh okay so among the celts of gaul druids revere the oak and mistletoe conducting sacred rituals and oak groves they linked tall oaks to their thunder god tyrannus akin to zeus and greco-roman mythology for plenty's natural history book i really need to go read all these things i don't know how i'm gonna have the time with all the young i need to do but in the third century bc celtic conquerors asia minor continued this tradition at drynamida a name meaning sacred oak grove in their language reflecting the oak's divine power so okay this tyrannus this this i don't i don't maybe you've no i i just learned about this getting ready to go on your show but tyrannus the is this celtic thunder god and i guess i'm sure you've heard of these wicker man rituals i did not know about this but they would create these uh these wicker man effigies with people and animals and stuff like that inside and they would offer up individuals to tyrannus in this wicker man for divine favor and to ensure fertility that's what i have here on the left and you know i mentioned earlier that the druids are men of the oak or i guess the etymology of it more properly connects to oak nor or strong seer so i keep something when i do this uh study of the golden bough one of one of the guys i do it with austin keeps like you gotta see midsummer have you seen midsummer i'm not big like i'm not like a parent like it's one of these i guess it's one of these a24 movies and i've seen i've seen the stills but it's apparently like kind of a horror movie i think um i've seen some like right-wing twitter people complain about it being like this propaganda piece to like smear white people as like murderous uh homicidal maniacs but perhaps it really captures like elements of of of uh these rites and rituals that persisted into like modern day europe but yeah the wicker man rituals connected to the council of druids um and then this is this i have another image here the druids this is um i don't know who did this but the druids are the conversion of the britons to christianity so this is depicting the oak and mistletoe ritual and that it that involved the celts of gaul particularly the druids held the oak and its mistletoe as supremely sacred performing

rituals and oak groves where they cut mistletoe with a golden sickle on the sixth day of the moon as noted by plenty this is again in natural history book 16 and they dressed in white the druids offered two white bulls as sacrifices beneath the oak believing mistletoe granted fertility and protection these rites using oak leaves reinforced uh its its divine role and the place where they did this in asia minor um the trying to meet them not only was it like a religious sanctuary or whatever but they they also developed their their political senate there too so you know this is all new to me i've never i've never really had much of an interest in in the particulars of history as a philosopher i was just kind of like i just thinking abstractly but uh now that i'm aware of how important it all it is i i'm kind of teaching myself this in your audience too i don't i don't know how much you've connected your joseph smith research to this if it if it's relevant at all right no i mean i've always

wondered about what he knew obviously with his heritage and being what it was but yeah his mom's name was um lucy mack so i mean that's you know that's pretty yeah and so and you know some of his uncles um well they were actually like grandpa's cousin started dartmouth college they were he was the first yeah he was the first uh professor out there they'll say he wasn't related i'm telling you i've been through the genealogy and they all are from the same area like everything's legit and then um so also the guy that saved his leg, Dr. Nathan Smith, also Smith, another one of the grandparents'

so so

cousins. And it's distant relation for sure, but they all hail from Topsfield, Massachusetts.

so so so

They're not even from New York. They're right by Salem. His grandpa was involved in the Inquisition. So it gets really interesting, the things they have hidden just because of the heritage, like you're saying, like you want to learn about, you know, all these things. And like, why do they, why do people think the way they think, whether it's me or you or him or whoever? Well, it's all about your hair. I mean, it's usually your heritage, how you're raised, you know? So yeah, it's interesting. You never know what you're going to find. I have a show on that. I'll send it

to you. Yeah. Yeah. I try to, I wanted to listen to the whole Sam Tripoli thing that you did. Oh, you're good. I don't know. Like, but it was so weird. Like when I first woke up in like 2016, I had all the time in the world to just like listen to stuff. And I feel like I have no time

to listen to things anymore. Well, because you're reading. Yeah. You're prepping. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess that's the other part of it too. It's like, you know, you kind of get the lay of the land, you know, something that I'll suggest this as a point of research. I wonder, and this is not a criticism. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm above it all, but, uh, the, the, the concept of, um, polygamy. I, I wonder if that, you know, I, I don't know anything about why polygamy is, I, I, I think I sort of assumed it was for practical purposes or, or less, I don't know, but maybe, maybe, maybe it could

be tied back to some of this. I don't know. I think maybe so because he can't, you can't. Okay. According to their actual, the real religion that's been changed a hundred thousand times now, but if you go to the FLDS, that's where the answers are because they still go by the real doctrine of the church. And if you do not have three wives, you do not go to the celestial kingdom. And so it goes back to the Templars. Like, honestly, people don't want to talk about this like too much because, uh, touches on stuff that they don't want, you know, it gets, it gets hairy, but look, you know, they, Joseph Smith has said that he comes from Jesus's bloodline from the whole grail thing, like period. He says that. And, and that that was, there were three wives that Jesus had the total of three wives and lived and all the things. So, um, which, which three wives, Martha, there were two Marthas and a Mary. So really I'd heard it. I've heard of this whole,

like Mary was a wife and the whole Da Vinci code thing, but I, this is the first time I've heard

about Jesus's three wives. Yeah. So that's what they say. And, and according to him, he is, um, a perfect combination. This is why he called himself a moon child and why Crowley was so enamored with Joseph Smith. One, Joseph Smith called himself a moon child. Well, well, Crowley called Joseph Smith, a moon child, but really,

yeah. Sorry to interrupt you. You're good. This is all new to me.

No, there's a whole book on it and everything. And, and he talks about it specifically. And there's even the reference at the bottom, like for those that don't know, it's like, this is Joseph Smith. Like they put it in the footnotes and everything. But I just think that he recognized him as a great magician. And I think that he was, I do. I think that he, I think Barone, I was his HGA.

Like if people don't know what that is, it's an HGA. I'm sorry. I feel like such a normie right now.

No, the Holy and guardian angel, the Holy guardian angel that you, um, do, you know, the Abermellon ritual to receive. And even Damien Echols, which is like the worst person to say on this, but look, he knows about magic. I'll say that. Uh, and he talks about the same thing about Joseph Smith doing, uh, you know, the H getting his HGA, which was Moroni, which makes a ton of sense. If you go back to Martinism, not Scottish, right? Because Scottish, right. Wasn't organized enough at Joseph Smith's time. They try to lie and say, Oh, he's a 33rd degree Mason. No, he was a master Mason that 33 wasn't even a thing when he was like, I mean, it had barely been started, but the Masonic rights of the miserum, you know, like the Martinists, they were Solomonic, Solomonic magic practitioners, and they were also Freemasons. So when you combine that and you look into it, it's completely like, it fits really well. And that's been my whole spill is that I don't think he was lying and I don't think he was a fraud. And I really do think he saw something, but I don't think it came by accident. And I do think he conjured it. And I just know too much about their rights and rituals at this point on accident, total accident, like ran into it. And I'm going, well, that is the day that he said he talked to the angel and then there's toad spirits and it just gets weird. But I'm telling you, like, he was not a dumb farmer.

boy he was super smart i never thought he was yeah he's he's an adept magician and clearly he

was a very talented individual if he could yeah persuade so many people to so devoutly follow him

yeah i think he actually like believed like no less than dr john d like honestly i think some of these people get into it and they're in so deep and then then you have to do polygamy or you know whatever get give your wife up and raise edward kelly's kid for the rest of your life like it all gets weird at some point because these things hate us and if people study cosmology of like a lot of the extra realm things whatever we want to say they are um they're not really thrilled about their little brother that you know got a little favor i i mean it's all over it's in the

bible too you know yeah well this is yeah that's a fascinating idea the whole the mormon like divine council and i you know it's interesting trafficking in these circles like you know i've heard like so many people like oh the i i even growing up in outside of mormon community i the evan and i wasn't an evan joke i was just i would play in bands and basketball i was not really that animated by all these different conversations but i remember like the evangelicals being like oh mormons think jesus and lucifer like spirit brothers and i'm like no i don't really know what that means but okay you know i've seen these little these like recycled cartoons where they like like the that's true yeah yeah 100 but uh you know again i encourage people to read the bible it is the divine council is there in the bible and there's weird stuff like oh i like the whole morning star thing there's like some weird stuff going on there you know like with the evolution of satan and lucifer

and yep and steiner even confuses it more like right because then you've got aramon and you've got two satans and people even postulate that the satan and job is not the satan like lucifer right so i know that's hard for people but satan is just a title like i believe there are dark archons and light archons just all over and and i know that sounds very kabbalistic but uh look you know it is what

it is look the spirit world is vast and there are all sorts of things going on here that we don't understand like you know i'm not i'm i i have no interest in practicing kabbalah or doing these rites or rituals or anything like but i i can acknowledge that there is power yeah there's yeah there's there's all sorts of hierarchies here that i don't i don't desire yeah and i don't desire to

tamper with them i know me either no no nope i'm out on that one um they they definitely say for people that are listening to this you shouldn't do that unless you like absolutely know what you're doing because it it is still one of the things that if you look it up people are like don't do it your life will be wrecked and i look at john d and i look at joseph smith and i look at these people that they truly believed in what they were doing like we can't fault them for that like really like i mean john d was super pious you know he wasn't he wasn't a jokester like that's for sure

i mean people that's yeah that's weird that's the weird thing about john d is that he really didn't see what he was doing as being problematic from no it was very devout he was like that's really about like yeah when that's kind of like a more modern gloss that he was this like depraved satanically motivated person i think he really thought he was doing god's will i don't think he

was any of that i really do too from everything i've read about him i honestly feel bad because like we know that there are things like there's you mentioned tricksters right like there's tricksters and everything and he i really think he got tricked but did he have the opportunity at the point where he's like now we're gonna swap wives right like i mean probably time to time out like probably like if you're pious and stuff you should be like maybe not probably not no we gotta stop but i get it he

spent like 10 years of his life doing this well i think you know you this is the kirk of guardian in me you know kirk of guard really plays up this heroic act that abraham did you know god asked him to sacrifice his son and i think john d probably about the whole wife swapping thing probably saw himself as like abraham in some way like why is god putting me to the test about something that's like right

pretty pretty is irreligious and unethical right yep and i feel bad for some of these people like that's why we always have to you know pray and and and try and never just jump like don't just do that like

Like think about things first, like put a holy stop to things. If things get weird, like we gotta, we gotta not just jump off the ledge because I mean, they're just probably laughing if they're the dark archons. Like they're like, ah, look at you stupid. You know, I don't know, but yeah, I feel bad for a lot of them to be honest. So I mean, I, yeah, I'm here for people if they,

they need it. You know, it's, I don't know. I don't find that too many people want my guidance.

So me either. Well, there we go. Yeah. Although you know what? I'll have people message me because

I used to be very vocal about a lot of truth or subjects and I have people message me now, you know, almost a decade out and they'll be like, you were the one who woke me up. And I'm like, oh, good. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I had that effect on you, you know,

but, but that's the whole point, right? Like some of us, like, I don't have sponsors. Like I don't have, I clearly I'm in this for a certain reason and, and people are always, they either hate me or love me, but like you get a lot of criticism and my family, you know, your stuff, I can tell you,

you, you are, you're a heavy hitter. You, you come prepared. You got receipts. I can, I can tell you get in trouble. Yeah. Built a little different. Yes. A lot of people just want to get on the, yeah. People just, a lot of people just want to get on these things and gab, you know? Yeah. So I appreciate that about what you do because it's like, okay. Like at what point is like conspiracy and truth or stuff, just like, like a little bit more hot. It's like high-minded

gossip in a lot of ways. It's like, and it's like an addiction. It's an addiction. Sometimes I think for people like, I know for me, it's about truth. And, you know, even when I started my solo thing, which I just call lucidity because I'm like, okay, look, I'll do all this research and then we'll get on with people. And yes, I'd love to chat, but then not just like how we're doing and we're going back to the subject. It'll get like lost because there's five or six people, you know, and then you don't get to the point. And so I've got all this research and I didn't know what to do with it. So I'm, I started my own thing just like, okay, here's what I learned. There you go. You know, I, I'm not a boss of it. I don't know all the things I'm just learning along with people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I was saying that before we got on, it's like, I'm like the piano instructor. It's like a, who's like, like a lesson ahead of the student. Right. Right. Yeah. Yep. That's it. Me too.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause you'll see like fun. Yeah. Yeah. Like you'll see, like I'm,

you know, I I'm pretty reliant on my notes. Cause like I, it's a lot for me to, I, I don't have, I don't remember all that. It's so many details. I can't remember all these different gods and rights and rituals. And, and, um, you know, I haven't read all the source material. I've not read. Well, they're lengthy. Oh my gosh. I've not read of Herodotus. I've not read all plenty. Like, so I'm going to make, like, I'm going to say names wrong and stuff, you know? Right. Well,

they all have 10 names and it gets really confusing. I mean, I think I, I don't know. Yeah. But I love when we, when you do come on with somebody that has information like this, it's awesome because like you said, I don't get a lot of time to study things that aren't in my wheelhouse because you just don't have time. Yeah. Yeah. The spec it's the specialization kind

of rears when you've been at this. So I don't know when you woke up, but I think there's like an arc where you become like knowledgeable about everything. And then it's like, okay, I get the lay of the land. And then you have, if you're going to go beyond that, you have to kind of specialize. Yes. And it's like, uh, I, you know, I don't, I can't, I don't got to like, I can't really do another Tartaria video. I can't do like another three hour documentary on flat earth. I can't do like another thing on AI antichrist. Like I gotta, I gotta pick a lane and just

right. Right. Yep. But at the same time, I want to be, I want to be open. Like if someone's really

got some revolutionary information, I really want to be open to it, not shut it down. So yeah. Yeah. Which is an important thing. Yeah. I try to think about like, how do you stay open to someone who may have a gigantic puzzle piece that you're not aware of? Cause someone, you know, the, the conversations get stale and then someone like, there'll be like a YouTuber or a podcaster or something that comes out of nowhere and just as like a revelation. Um, I'm trying to think, uh, I mean, maybe even yourself is kind of like that with just the personal experiences with Mormonism and all the research you've done. Like you've, I don't know if there's really anyone else doing what you do. Maybe you can turn me on to other people who are researchers, but you seem to be kind of a force.

Yeah. I like to deep dive. Yeah. Yeah. You seem to kind of be like, uh, you seem to be kind of like

your own thing. And I think that's kind of what I'm building. I don't know if I'm ready for like prime time because like, I don't sleep. And I'm like, I'm not always the best on these things, but, um, yeah, they're just hard on yourself. Yeah. Well, we're perfections, but then there's just some people who appear like out of nowhere, just like seem to have gotten a download, but it's like, I don't know. Is that the case or is that the result of like 15 years of study? For me, I'm just studying all the time.

Like I, I don't know a lot of things and, and that's the whole thing. I think as I've gotten older, what you said about academia is so hit home for me because I'm like, I never learned all like nearly as much stuff as when I had a passion for something. Right. But I mean, this passion for me was mostly honestly to save people. Like I felt like, okay, what if these people are being led astray and what if this is a bad thing and they don't even know. And if they still want to do that later, like I'm super careful, like here in Utah, I'm in Utah. People will say, what's your podcast? And I'm like, what's your denomination? Because I'm not here to black pill somebody that's happy where they're at. Like, I don't want to hurt anyone, you know, but if they're unsure or they're like, I, I used to go, but I don't know now. And then that's the person I'll share with. Right.

I'm not trying to hurt people. Yeah. Yeah. I've gotten, I've recently, like the past month or so, I've gotten in touch with like friends of mine from high school, like some people I was close with, people I wasn't close with, and we've caught up and talked and kind of make allude to like what I'm interested in these days. And I, but you know, a couple of times I've been like, Oh, this, they're not ready. They're not ready for this. Isn't it the worst though, when you're sitting

there and you're like, Nope, Nope, Nope. Like, and in your brain, you're just like, Oh my gosh, like this is so wrong. But then, you know, too, like maybe you were there too. And so you just wait,

you know, I think about it, you know, I think about it, like, was there someone from my past who was like trying to enlighten me and I just shut them down? Like, I think I go back in time. Cause I, you know, I really should have woken up like immediately after nine 11. Right. And, and, you know, until 2020. Yeah. I mean, we're roughly the same age. Like I am embarrassed that it took till 2016. I am so embarrassed. Um, and I try to think back as like, was there anyone who tried to reach me and I just wasn't receptive and Oh, there were for me. I don't think there was, I don't think there was. And I feel like I was a late comer and I was like, for many years, it was just me. 2020 really accelerated things. There are a lot of people who are awake now because of 2020, but 2016, it was like, like people were like, Oh, you need to be in an insane asylum.

But then we look at all these old people, these really old people, right. And we're reading books and going, wait a minute. I get it. Right. Like, I don't know. I don't know. It gets weird. The more it really is true. What they say, there's nothing new under the sun. Like the more, you know, yep. Like you're just like, Oh, and the more I know, the less I know.

You know, it's so weird though. Like the people who I get a lot of this, like, I don't, I'm sure you see it too. It's like how many people like caution against knowing too much. I see this from like some levels of truthers who are like, Oh yeah. Like you're going to go schizophrenic. If you learn, if you read too many books, I see that theme. There's like a little bit of an anti-intellectual streak and some truth or circles. And then there's just like with normie people, so I hear so many times they're like, I care not, I choose not to go down rabbit holes. Like you see like rural people just, and even just capping, capping the amount of information that they're. And I'm just like, yeah, that's not me at all. No, let's effing go.

Yeah. I can't. If it, if it's something that sparks my, my whatever, then it's, yep. I got to figure it out. Even if I can't. All right. There's been so many things try and do a deep dive on Martinism Freemasonry. It's like so much information that I finally went, yep. I'm never going to

understand this, but I still try. I still don't even know what Martinism is. Oh, it's see, I'm like

a normie compared to you. No, it's just my weird wheelhouse. You know what I mean? It's this weird place where I keep. What's Martinism? That's the Freemasonry. That's the French Freemasonry where they practice Solomonic magic. And so that they're practitioners and, and they call spirits down. And I think stuff like that is real. Like somebody said to me the other day, no offense guys, if you see it on YouTube, they're like, don't you think it's more consistent that he was just kind of lying and dah, dah, dah. And I said, sure. If you don't believe in, in anything else, like if you don't believe in any extra, um, not of this world, I don't mean extraterrestrial as in an alien, but like other beings. Yeah.

then that's your answer. But I do, you know, so then you get into that whole, like, sorry, like, I, yeah, this is just like all this stuff and magic and blah, blah, blah. And what about all these people and what they're talking about and all these people that have written books and all of them came from like, okay, Crowley and Joseph and, you know, the Muslim religion came for the same thing and L Ron Hubbard and all of these guys talked to an angel and then did a sexual exchange and then wrote a book and then it became a religion. So like, how do you explain that?

You know what I mean? Like that's weird. Yeah. I don't know. It's crazy. Well, so, all right. So let me ask you this because it is, it's, it's almost seven o'clock. It's almost seven o'clock where I am. I don't know. I probably should cap this at like seven 30 so I can like make dinner and stuff like that. Um, I'll be quiet. We can, no, no, it's great. I mean, we can, I can keep talking about, uh, Jupiter worship and things like that, but, or we can just like look at Trump for a while.

I like the Jupiter stuff too. Honestly, like I'm fascinated with the Jupiter things.

All right. Let's just keep going. And maybe I'll do like a lightning, no pun intended, a lightning round, lightning round. So, um, here on the page, uh, this, we're going to be looking at the ancient Germans and Donar or Thor and the ancient Germans revered the Oak as sacred to their thunder God, Donar, uh, who was equated with Jupiter with a famous Oak near Geismar. And this was called Donar's Oak. Uh, Donar like Zeus and Jupiter ruled thunder, lightning, rain, and crops linking Oak worship to fertility. And as I mentioned earlier, the word Thursday is, is Donar's day, which reflects that Jupiter connection. And I, on the right here, we have a Marvel Donar or Thor. I'm not a big comic person, but that was the one that was most interesting to me. And, uh, as far as, like I mentioned earlier, we, I believe we get the etymology of thunder is from Thor and Donar, the Donar. So I think that's where thunder comes from. And then on the left here, we have St. Boniface who was born in Winfrith around 675 CE in England. And he was a missionary spreading Christianity in Germanic lands. And around 723 CE, he famously chopped down a sacred Oak near Geismar, Hesse called Donar's, the one we mentioned earlier, dedicated to the Germanic thunder God, Donar. Per Willebald's life of Boniface, Boniface felled the tree before a pagan crowd to prove Christian dominance. And when no divine retribution came, many converted. He used the Oak's wood to build a chapel, symbolizing Christian triumph, mirroring the Oak's sacred role as a divine conduit. So it's, that's interesting. You chop down this, uh, this, uh, this conduit for Donar or Jupiter or whatever, and then you build your church out of it. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's pretty wild. That's pretty wild. Um, yeah. And then I thought this was interesting here in slide 242, we're going to talk about Perun. We're going to talk about Perun and Perkunas. These were new to me. So among the Slavs, the Oak was sacred to Perun, their thunder God, akin to Zeus and Jupiter with a statue at Novgorod holding a thunderstone symbolizing his power. I could not find an image of that. So I just have this, uh, pillar over here, uh, Perun, um, on the, on the right, this red pillar, a perpetual Oak wood fire honored Perun with attendance facing death. If it extinguished, underscoring a Supreme status as the lightning making Lord per Procopius, um, the Oak centric worship involving oxen sacrifices, mirrors area and thunder God rituals. And then we have Perkunas here in the center and Perkunas, the Lithuanian thunder and lightning

God akin to Zeus and Jupiter was worshiped with Oaks and perpetual Oak wood fires. Again, we have the fire, which when extinguished were relit by sacred wood for today, we just rubbed the Oak together. Men offered sacrifices to Oaks for crops, women to lime trees. I guess they had a different goddess that was in that tree. Uh, I think her name was Lake. I have to go back and check. And during droughts, communities sacrificed black animals and poured beer on fires and oak groves to summon Perkunas's reign. I did not go into why they got into this black animal sacrifice or all the different acts like the, I think this, the Celts were sacrificing white bulls. You know, I could really go into the weeds with that, but, um, I'm sure they've got like, some of them are, and we were looking at, uh, Dodona where the, the, the, the, the priestesses, the three, the dot, the three doves. There's like birds associated with that.

with Zeus there.

Yeah.

So there's all sorts of animals involved.

Yeah.

There's whole stories there.

Yeah. Yeah.

And what I found was super interesting about Perkunas,

Yeah.

you see here in Baltic mythology, Perkunas,

Yeah. Yeah.

the Lithuanian thunder god is linked to the swastika.

Yeah.

So you had these Latvian,

Yeah. Yeah.

the Latvian air force used a maroon swastika

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

on a white background as a symbol from 1918 to 1940.

Yeah. Yeah.

So long before, well, maybe not long before, but yeah, but before Mr. Mustache came on the scene, you had the Latvian air force flying around with swastikas. And it's, and which, you know, this raises super interesting questions. Like, you know, they're connecting it to their thunder god Perkunas, but you know, like what's going on here? Like when we think about America, when we think about Nazi Germany, like both America and Nazi Germany, are using the Eagle, the Eagle is clearly associated with Jupiter. You know, the Nazis had the swastika, which though I could not really find evidence of it getting ready for this. I mean, if they're using the swastika in Latvian air force, it stands to reason that that swastika is probably connected to Jupiter in some way. So you have like the iron Eagle holding a swastika. It's like, these are like Jupiter representatives, it seems like. And in America, our bird is the Eagle. Our tree is the Oak. Like, what are we doing? Like, what is going on here? Like, and, and like the way it's like, it's like, well, we're not a fish. It's not a, the Oak is not officially our tree. And apparently the Eagle wasn't officially our bird until like last year or something like that, which seems like a Mandela effect to me, but I'm not getting into it.

That's a Mandela for me. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, it, um, like, what are we doing here? Like, how did these two countries have all these Jupiterian symbols, but we don't worship Jupiter. We, we don't guys. We don't swear to God. We don't worry about him. Yeah.

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Skip over that one.

Yeah. I don't know exactly how will we be worshipping Jupiter. Like, I mean, that's a... Maybe I'll keep exploring that angle. I don't know. Maybe we're doing it with Trump right now. I don't know.

Maybe like making all of us as grade school children do the Maypole every year for I don't know how long. But whatever.

I never had to do that. Yeah. I never did the Maypole.

Maypole is still going on here in Utah, sir.

Is it really? That's interesting. What do you guys... Like, what did they tell you about the Maypole? They're just like, oh, you're just like a kid who run around the school.

Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. You're just like, oh, here. Well, you had to learn it because it weaves it. So you had to learn which way to go. It's kind of like a little dance. And so, yeah, I did it. I mean, it's like...

Yeah. Yeah. It's like that with so many things. Like, you know, I mean, I know you know this. This is like low-hanging fruit on like the truth or tree. But it's like, like people don't think anything about where Christmas trees come from. Or Christians don't even know that Christmas trees are like frowned upon in the Bible. Right. Like Jeremiah. Like if you tell a Christian that like Christmas is like possibly satanic, they go, yeah. Or like Easter. Oh, yeah.

Ishtar Day. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I know you... I feel like I'm not dropping any truth bombs on you.

No, but it's funny, right? Yeah. It's weird. These are examples.

Like people don't just... Now...

Now the whole like throwing rice at a wedding, like perhaps that was like, ooh, you blew in my mind there. But like a normie has no idea that like there's some weird fertility stuff going on with this Easter stuff. That's so wild. Yeah. There's like some like tree worship going on with the maypole. Like you're like, what? We're worshiping a tree? I'm just dancing.

Yeah. It's cute. You ruin everything. That's what I get you.

Yeah.

You're ruining everything.

Yeah.

Okay. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Well, let's, let's look at some Trump. Let's look at it. I mean, I don't really think about Trump that much, but it's, this was a, I, when I started thinking about it, I was like, man, there's like a lot of Jupiter stuff at Trump. And I've been developing this as time goes on. So I'll just go around with these images. So the top, everybody's always makes fun of like Trump's makeup. Right. And I, I, I don't know why he's orange. Like there's lots of different theories. Like people think like he's just bad at putting on his makeup, but he's like, this is the president of the United States. Like he's got people that can do his makeup. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's all sorts of reasons. And the thing is with the, the, the emperors, the emperors in ancient Rome and the generals, when they were victorious, they would paint their faces red. Um, as, as, as a celebration of Jupiter, um, or identification with Jupiter in, when they were victorious in battle. And, um, this was part of Roman religion. And to me, that, that feels like there's, there's something about this painting, the face, orange, orange, you know, it's, you know, that, that, that it might be connected to that. Cause it's like, so in your face all the time. He's got to be sensitive to the criticism. Oh, he knows. Yeah. Surrounded by people. And he still does it. And it's like, okay, this is like, this is a message or this is like indebtedness to something.

You know, his mom's name was Mary Christ. Right.

Right. And yeah, there's that, there's that whole thing.

There's a whole rabbit hole with Trump, but, and then his uncle and it goes into JFK and then it spirals everywhere. And that's why, I mean, he's, he, he is low hanging fruit basically for that.

Well, what do you, why do you think his face is orange?

I mean, look, billionaires study this stuff. Look, they know all this stuff and they, they literally, I think that they, they all know, like maybe not every single person ever, but I would say 90%, right. They, they know this stuff. This is stuff that they send their kids to his, send his, he sent his kids to Jesuit college. He went to Jesuit college, like, and I'm not saying that means everything. Right. But add it together with everything else. Like it's a lot. And I think these families, these important bloodlines, I mean, they don't just screw around with their kids. They're sending them off to do this stuff. They're, they're initiating them just like they were initiated. And I don't think part of me doesn't even feel like it's nefarious. It's just what they do. Right. Like that's what they do.

And so I, yeah, I never, I, I wonder if like, there were like just all these classrooms that I walked into in the past and I'm like, sure. Shut up. Don't talk about the orange face paint that we do. Luke's coming.

And think of this, like if, if they are in any kind of religious order where they send out missionaries, how easy is it to say your kid's going on a mission and they're really going to two years of, you know, the college for them, right? Their mystery Babylon college. Who knows?

Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't have a theory. I don't know either. I just know his face is orange. And what's crazy about the whole, the whole, like the generals and the emperor's painting their faces red is that then they found on Jupiter, the great red spot, which is this gigantic storm. And it's like, they did not have the telescopes on the timeline that we're on. Like take all this like crazy talk aside. The fact that like Romans were painting their face red. And then like thousands of years later, I guess it was, it was, maybe it was Galileo who first sighted Jupiter. I'm trying to remember, but I think the first time the red spot was sighted was like in the 17th century. And, you know, 2000 years passes and they're like, oh, just so, just so you know, like Jupiter's got this on the face of Jupiter, there's this gigantic red spot. And we've also been worshiping Jupiter by painting our faces red. Like, what are we talking about? Like what? This is like the posing people. I'm looking around.

And the talismans, the talismans, like they weren't.

it wasn't just Joseph Smith that had one. They were very popular. Those were popular. Like, I mean, and Abraxas ones too. Like, I mean, how did they get all this information when it's, it seems impossible. Basically. I don't know.

Well, let's look at some other things too. So the big thing, like Jupiter is a storm God. And like, I'm like, Oh, like what, what have I heard about storms in the news for like the past 10 years? Oh, Trump and storms. Like this like cryptic QAnon thing where he's like, you know what this represents? It's the calm, the calm before the storm. And people are like, what storm, Mr. President, you'll find out like, like this. And it's like burned and everybody's psyche. And then like shortly thereafter he like, or maybe it was before, I can't remember. Like he gets, like there's this whole like lurid affair with a stripper named stormy Daniels. Like, like, what are we talking? So like all this storm stuff is like around Trump, the storm energy and names. And his plane is like, he's like, because he flies so much. He's so like, he's puts him, he's in positions. Like we're look at these epic photographs. Like his plane got struck by lightning once. And then he's like getting off the plane and the lightning crosses across. It's right. It's like, these are like iconic photographs, like kind of subliminally communicating something to you about Jupiterian power or storm God power. And, you know, everybody in our community likes to decode these economist covers. Like this is, they, they've got, they try to read the, you know, read the tea leaves about the future and they've got Trump here. Well, they've got Trump posed just like Zeus, just like Jupiter with, with the, the Eagle staff and the, the worldly power or whatnot. This is the pose of one of the most famous Jupiter statues. I believe the one in Capitoline Hill, I should have included an image of that. And then Trump is like connected to Jupiter, Florida. Like the, he, he's got the Trump national golf club there. So his family lives in, he's always in Jupiter. And those, you know, those big boat, the flotillas, the big Trump boat parades, those are launched out of Jupiter, Florida. And each, this is like, in and of itself, each one of these things is like probably not that powerful, but it's like, I mean, I keep going here. Let's go to the 244. So a big thing that is associated with Jupiter is Zeus is the golden shower. Like Zeus, like, like came up. Yeah. Like Zeus came upon Danae in the form of a golden shower. And then like, again, another one of these like lurid reports that went around is like something about Trump and golden shower. Like, this is like, I can't believe I'm living in a world where like people are obsessing about these things. And like little kids have to watch the news, learning about golden showers and the president. But that's like, that's a big thing associated with Zeus is the golden shower. And like, I don't even know. It's something about strippers or something. I don't even,

I don't watch the news. I just heard about this golden shower thing. And there's like, Zeus has a golden throne. And so like Trump is always on these golden chairs, which is kind of a big deal. But like, there was this thing where like, I had this headlight museum offers gold toilet to Trump and stuff. And goes, Van Gogh is like this big, like alchemical symbol too. I learned about it studying Kubrick so much as Van Gogh over Kubrick. But there's this, this, this effort to like associate Trump again with a golden throne negatively, positively. It's like, it's out there in the ether kind of, these are just like, it's not, it's of course it's a toilet. It's not what you think of, but that's, that's a toilet is a throne. And then like, he's got, like, he's got a gold guy. He's like redecorating the white house and turning every, making it, glamming it up with all this gold. And his, his gold guy is again from Jupiter, Florida. It's like, and gold is the, is the like associated with Zeus is for the sign of eternity of, of power, of, of prestige.

And alchemy and John D and Edward Kelly. That's where my brain always goes. Yeah.

Yeah. And, oh yeah, I was going to say Zeus is sits atop Mount Olympus in a gold drone. That's why that's where the whole gold drone. And then we go to two 45 here. There's something like lightning strikes with the way that Trump uses social media. Whenever he sends out a tweet, it's like, like, it's like, I can't really do lightning or thunder. But that's kind of like, and it kind of calls to mind again, these emperors, these Latin Kings that were using technology to mimic the thunderous powers of, of Jupiter. And that's what I was trying to. Thanks for listening.

communicate here you know by combining trump as the wizard of oz with twitter and lightning strikes and stuff like that yeah and uh it's not strong but i you know i don't know very much about astrology but from what i can tell he has a moderately jupiterian uh natal chart it there are stronger jupiterian charts but he's pretty he's he's pretty strong i don't do you know anything about astrology i mean um not as much yeah his jupiter is in libra the second house which trines his gemini son and uranus 10th house you know talk about wealth and expansion but i don't know too much about it but that's he's moderately jupiter and uh even his assassination has like jupiter themes to it um because he was his assassination right like his attempt yeah yeah yeah well that's he um he was supposedly shot on july 13th and those the middle of the month is connected to the ides right so the ides of july um and the ides are sacred to jupiter uh and this gets into the whole jupiter connection with julius caesar who jupiter we learned from ovid um talked about the ascent of uh and the deification the apotheosis of julius caesar uh after um after his death and there's this whole comet known as the caesar's comet that was that was visible and it convinced everybody that he had become divine but it's interesting that trump gets shot in in july the month that's named after julius caesar during the ides of jupiter so there seems to be some some something potentially lining up there about um the deification of trump there in in my opinion i'm this is strong no but it's still a thing and uh apparently in medical astrology which i do not know very much about but people um apparently jupiter is traditionally associated with ear related ailments and blood conditions and he you know he has a bloody ear so or he had whatever it was you know ketchup or whatever it was um something that i think is important i don't know have you read young's essay on voton i haven't all right so i mean i think it came out in 1936 but essentially he was talking about the psychic force this uh this ancient storm god which is similar to jupiter but different and and how it took over the german populace that they really regular um factors were not in consideration for how hitler came to power and the murderous rampage that the german people

supposedly went on um uh uh so i think this this this votan um i think this votan a text of young's might be important to understand how people can become possessed of certain archetypes like do i really think like trump is like intentionally trying to channel jupiter maybe with the orange face paint i don't i i don't know i don't know but it could just be the collective unconscious like organizing these things and there could be scenarios where these psychic forces these archetypes overwhelm the ego and they start flowing through you you know unconsciously and you become possessed not on that like how he believes hitler was possessed by this votan archetype and there is for people who want to go deeper into this i've not had a chance but here are some references that young talks about uh he doesn't really talk about jupiterian archetypes very much but um to go if someone wants to pursue this line of research he does talk a little bit about it psychological types symbols of transformation and archetypes of and the collective unconscious and i um you can just screenshot that if you want but in general the i think the idea is that jupiter comes on the scene to be disruptive but also to restore order that this should just be like the calibration of this realm that we exist in and the jupiterian figure as trump was back on the scene to uh to to restore some kind of balance uh that some sort of disturbance that happened i'm not this is not an endorsement i'm not some right i don't believe in politics clearly if i'm doing stuff like this but uh it is interesting to think about why archetypal possession happens i is this is this something i'm prepared to defend to death no like but it is an interesting line of research if someone wants to go into it and i have one last thing a brand new jupiter thing that i found just for you uh because the other stuff i had recycled you and I thought this is so, this really got past the goalie on this one. I did not know about this, but apparently during the first Trump turn, Macron, who constantly, at least at one point, I don't know what he does now, but at one point, Macron was always associating himself with Jupiter, and you see that here in Les Pontes, Jupiter à l'élicie. I don't even know how to speak French, but you get the idea. He was always saying, journalists couldn't understand his big Jupiterian thoughts and stuff like that, and he brought this oak tree from France where a lot of Americans died during World War I, I think, and he and Trump planted this oak tree on the White House lawn, and they've got these golden shovels to plant this oak tree,

and clearly something Jupiterian is going on here, and what was so curious about this is that apparently the oak tree died during COVID. The oak tree, the oak tree, I don't know if it was because of stuff going on with COVID or because there was like a moth infestation or something like that, but they took it into quarantine, and then the tree died in quarantine, and I think they, I don't know if there's been a follow-up, Macron's like, oh, we'll send him another one, and we'll plant this new oak, and people said, to quote this article, responding to social media posts, Mr. Macron said people should not read symbols into everything as he tries to posture to be a symbol of Jupiter. He says, he told Swiss public broadcasters, RTS, we will send him another. It is not a tragedy. It turns out that this oak was put in quarantine for American sanitary reasons, and the poor thing did not survive. I just think it's interesting that these leaders are planting some Jupiterian symbols, and it's like, don't read into it. Right. And Melania even got into this. Melania, I think around this time in 2018, she went with her gold shovel, and she planted an oak tree. So, I just, this, these are the sort of things that really don't make any news. It's just kind of weird. Like, maybe it's nothing. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the, the aggregate of it all is, I think, I think there's something, there's something like Jupiterian archetypal possession with Trump. I don't know really where it's going or what it means. Maybe he's just restoring the order, but why did he, why did he, why did he lose?

And a gold shovel.

Yeah. Like, why did he, like the second he, you know, he, he gets defeated and comes back. Like, I don't know enough about like Jupiter mythology to know like what the significance of all that, you know, but I'm sure it's, it's relevant. So I don't know. What do you think? Like when I show you all this Jupiter stuff where you're like, yep, I'm sold. Like possessed by a Jupiterian archetype. Are you just like, Luke, that's crazy.

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No, I can see, I can see the parallels for sure. You know, that's very interesting, especially the golden shovels. Like what? I mean, you couldn't just use the normal shovel.

Only the best.

That's weird.

It's a, it's an interesting picture. You know, they're both planting it. Right. Like, I mean, I could like, I could, I could really dial into this. Like they're both like holding the golden shovels. And then she's behind the tree. Kind of as if it's like, got that spirit in it that we looked at earlier. And it's just like, are these just like patterns from a higher realm bleeding into the reality? She almost looks like a triad there. Doesn't she?

I mean, just the whole thing in general seems weird. And then his fall from grace, like right after that, you know, I mean, and I mean there, I think there was a.

light too between his wife and yeah yeah it's weird like you find videos of it too like yeah

like the wives are trying to act not quite right yeah like and then it was weird and I don't know it just seems off for sure but it it's almost like okay they're trying to bring the energy together and now ultimately there's one you know yeah so because Macron has definitely

fallen from grace at this point as I don't even know I know that Candace Owens is in trouble for

talking about his wife oh boy I know she's supposed to be a man lady who even knows everybody apparently I don't know about that stuff but I I could definitely see that they would try to channel into these things because if they know like the mysteries right if we're talking about mystery school I mean it would make sense like even if they are Christians it would still make sense like if if they're not sticky like I don't know whatever some of them do you know so I I we can't just say oh well he's just a Christian well you don't know what kind of Christian he is so is John D

you know I mean the thing is like let's just say they know what they're doing I I tend to like again I tend to think we're in the simulation and people are just vessels but you know you see like we look at Saint Boniface like cutting down that Jupiter tree or that Geismar tree or whatever he was cutting down it's like so many of these people were you know converted to Christianity and they you know some of them they probably you know just a lot of the old ways stuck with them you know and they didn't really they were like you know I guess we're Christian now but we're still going to do the other

thing and you get all the synchronization right yeah and they did it purposely I mean they did it on purpose and I I just think that like anything that pierces the ether has power and I think Steiner puts this the best like when he's talking about you know ceremonies and these things that I'm definitely never going to be a part of I like learning but that's all and and but I see that it obviously holds power for people whether it be native people or billionaires or I don't care what right they know something they're tapped into something clearly and so I mean whether that works all the time probably not but it's very interesting nevertheless so yeah I mean the I don't know you know the uh

if I had to guess like the the significance of the tree dying and quarantine like you know a lot of COVID is associated with Apollo um because um Apollo I think there's even a book out there called like Apollo's arrow and it's like a lot of people like when you're talking about like Greek gods and stuff like that a lot of people think about Apollo as like the god of prophecy and light and um playing the harp um but he's also the god of plagues and uh it makes me wonder if I have I have to go deep into the mythology I wonder if there's something about tension with Jupiter and Apollo if if Trump is Jupiter if this uh uh uh Apollonian pestilence like was like a counterpunch or something and for like father-son tension I'm not sure I don't know my mythology but that now that we're talking because like so important to have dialogue and to get our mind around these things yeah I think that as soon as probably later tonight I'm going to go look and see if there's a connection there yeah that's

interesting I mean I think that things have underlays and I think that look these people that practice magic if it didn't work they would just stop after the first time like it wouldn't continue forever and it's continuing forever here it's been since the beginning of time that I know of clear till today um not that everybody does it right or for the right purposes I'm not getting into all that I'm just saying it's continuing and so why would they continue to do it if it didn't work

you know yeah I mean this is a very interesting question about whether or not if like I keep saying it's a simulation if if magic is kind of like a way to hack into it and I think the simulation is going to roll along and do what it does anyway but like certain individuals who got initiated maybe us like we're initiating ourselves like we probably like I see like I mentioned earlier where I see like my thoughts reflected back to me in headlines um or the synchronicity like the posing people story I told you um if there's like ways to hack into the simulation and I don't know why I'm able to do it I have no control over it but maybe other people like, well, I want to do that too. And this is the fastest route to do it. So I'll do,

I'll do magical practices. Um, I just, no, there's, there's a way, I think there is a way. And I think, I think anything that doesn't come from you, from God to you, it, then it's distorted. Right. And then it becomes something that it, it, and that probably leads to these people having like horrible situations, like John D and Joseph Smith falling out a window after happened to watch his brother die. And like all these horrible things, like we see all these horrible things happen to these people. And sometimes I think it's because maybe it wasn't, you know, they're forced. If you're forcing anytime you're forcing something, I just think that's not a good idea. You know, like if it's a natural gift from God, cause people always say, then you think all the angels are bad. No, I'm just saying that all angels do not like us. That is a fact. It is a fact, but they have to help us sometimes cause God says so. So, um, you know, they're militant and they have to obey. And so, you know, everything is legalistic in the other side. It's, it's been explained from the deepest, darkest Satanist to like the top, top of the most religious people or natives or whatever. Everybody knows there's a legalistic system, every spot you go to, like, it really is similar. And that's what gets me right. Like if, if all of this is woo, woo, bull baloney. Okay, cool. Why do people that have never been around other people that are out in the middle of an aboriginal world

that are secluded know about this stuff? That's, that's my question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a great question. Well, I would say just, just to put a bow on it. I think if you have that question, I think you should study the golden bow and dip in every once in a while over on my channel. And, you know, I, I, you know, I do frequently like hour to two hour long podcasts on the chapter and, you know, I go into these crazy tangents like we have today. So, um, you know, if, if, if someone wants to join and be a part of it, I'm open to that. If the, if the vibe is good and the chemistry is good, you're welcome to come on my channel at some point, if you'd like to do this again, I would have to say, I do have to, I have to, I have to, I have to go make, you're good.

Yep. You told me the timing. And so let people know one more time where to find you and all your

work. Yeah. I mean, I, I think, uh, Instagram is a good place to find me L I J PhD. I think that's my also my YouTube handle, but I think it's my name or Dr. Luke Johnson. You can find me there. And then I'm also on Twitter at another handle. I think it's noetic series. It's an old thing I did. So you can find me over there and I'm, I'm pretty responsive and I, I just, I like collaborating with people like you and, um, yeah, maybe we can do this again sometime. I would love that. And I

appreciate your time. I know we've gone long here. It's always nice to, um, you know, speak to a like-minded person. Even if, even if we don't like agree on every little thing, it's wonderful to expand our minds. Right. Like, I don't know. I love that. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so easy to,

to get stuck in your own head or in your own echo. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for showing me this.

And I don't know that I ever would have learned about the golden bow if you hadn't talked to me. So I'm definitely going to be doing some homework on it. Well, I'll tell you the, the, uh, the guys over at

Sink Tank are pretty well versed in as well. I mean, I, I think, uh, David and, and Paranoid American. Oh yeah. I think David is, he's been studying the golden bow much longer than me.

And I think David's a smart guy. Oh yeah. No. Yeah. He definitely is. Definitely. All those guys

are super smart. I have to say, yeah, yeah. As a Andreas is. Andreas is pretty high IQ. I'll tell you what

brain. He's got a big brain. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I always call him that. Yeah. Yeah. And

then I think Paranoid American is, um, doing like a, like a, he just comics. I think I, I think they're doing like a, like a comic interpret, like, uh, uh, drawings, like comics, like interpretation

of the golden bow. Well, and I actually saw that he came out with, um, when I was typing in for your channel, it popped up cause I'm subscribed to his channel that they just did a golden bow. episode for brave, uh, the Disney show. And so I, I didn't watch it, but I know it's out there for everybody that I have to check it out. So yeah, check it out. Well, thank you again so much. And I would love to come on anytime and you're welcome back anytime as well. All right. I'll, I'll, I'll

think of a, I'll think of something for you to, to join me on. You bet. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Have a good one. Bye.